How much blame does Daboll deserve?

[All_Pro_Bills]

One thing Daboll does which I never liked from coordinators is to call the offense from up in the sky box.  I think the OC needs to be on the sidelines with the players in order to 'feel' the game and the vibe of the team.  You don't get that experience by sitting up in the air conditioned/heated team suite sucking down beers and eating hot dogs.     

[ProcessAccepted]

Rookie QB and Nathan Peterman as your backup. Easily one of the worst WR units in the league. KB has a terrible work ethic. If you can ignore all that then sure Daboll deserves all the blame. 

[Reed83HOF]

Daboll has predominantly gone to half-field reads in every aspect of the passing game. He utilizes motion frequently to help Allen identify the coverage of man versus zone. Sometimes he will have Allen simply read whether the defense is in a one-high safety look or a two-high coverage. It’s a strategy that cannot be sustained long-term but, given the situation, is their best option.

 

Allen struggles to see the field and read coverages pre- to post-snap, and generally he lacks trust in his accuracy. All of those weaknesses have made the jobs of opposing defensive coordinators that much easier. If the Bills offense doesn’t get the coverage it expected, the chances of a play succeeding are slim. 

 

I often get asked why the offense is so bad and whose fault it is. Is it Allen? The lack of talent at the WR position? The scheme? The offensive line? The blame can rarely be put on one person or group on any given play.

 

On this third quarter play, none of the above are at their best. It’s third-and-4 and the Bills see man coverage again. Daboll has what equates to zone-beater concepts, but the Texans play man coverage. On the snap, RT Jordan Mills is quick in his kick-slide and DE J.J. Watt sees an overset so he drives inside. While Jones runs a sloppy route with a telegraphed cut runs a sloppy route, Holmes runs a deep dig and lets the DB drive him out of bounds. Allen, looking to escape as soon as he hits the top of his drop, now has half of the field to work with, only one real option and a spy linebacker in Benardrick McKinney — who is 6-foot-4 and can run the 40-yard dash in 4.66 seconds — bearing down on him. Allen tries to make a play, but it is nearly intercepted.

 

As you can see, the Bills offense’s margin for error is extremely small. Allen’s inexperience has limited the coaching staff’s ability to scheme the offense. If Daboll doesn’t get the coverage he and his pro scouts expected, Allen will struggle to work through progressions, hold onto the ball, tack a sack or run it. The Texans even went so far as having their pass rushers dive inside, baiting Allen to escape the pocket where their spy linebackers were waiting. The more defenses play man coverage against Allen, the more success it appears they will have. The Bills don’t have receivers that can separate consistently when one-on-one, and they can’t sustain drives if the QB consistently looks to run.

The Bills offense is in a real bind when Allen is in the lineup, and it’ll be interesting to see what changes they make if and when he returns.

 

https://theathletic.com/591843/2018/10/16/bills-film-room-how-the-texans-swallowed-up-josh-allen-and-gave-a-blueprint-to-the-rest-of-the-league/

[Bob in NoCal]

9 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

One thing Daboll does which I never liked from coordinators is to call the offense from up in the sky box.  I think the OC needs to be on the sidelines with the players in order to 'feel' the game and the vibe of the team.  You don't get that experience by sitting up in the air conditioned/heated team suite sucking down beers and eating hot dogs.     

 Even though other OCs have had success calling plays from up in the booth, I agree that a move down to the sidelines for Daboll might be a good idea at this point. 

[ProcessAccepted]

20 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

One thing Daboll does which I never liked from coordinators is to call the offense from up in the sky box.  I think the OC needs to be on the sidelines with the players in order to 'feel' the game and the vibe of the team.  You don't get that experience by sitting up in the air conditioned/heated team suite sucking down beers and eating hot dogs.     

 

This is a good article on the pros and cons of where the OC should call the game. However I do want to point out it's not detailed enough to include sucking down beers or eating hot dogs ?

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2016/11/23/13730592/2016-nfl-season-falcons-chargers-eagles-coaches-kyle-shanahan

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

The reason I don't believe this is because it's Brian Daboll.  He isn't Sean McVay or Kyle Shanahan.  Add him to the list of mediocre Bills offensive coordinators.

 

His usage, or lack thereof, of Shady all but confirms my suspicions.

 

 

 

Last year it was Rick Dennison, this year it is Brian Daboll. Bills fans love to blame coordinators rather than the truth which is that the players suck. 

[jrober38]

Very little.

 

He's hamstrung by the worst starting QB in the NFL.

 

When Peterman went in, guys were all of a sudden getting open. Peterman can't consistently get them the ball, or read a defense, but the scheme is getting guys open on downfield throws, the overwhelming issue has been that Josh Allen has happy feet and isn't willing to stand in the pocket when he feels pressure. 

 

Daboll is stuck having to hide a complete liability at the QB spot, so it's hard to judge him too much.

 

Our #1 problem right now on offense has been Allen's inept play. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by jrober38

[hondo in seattle]

8 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

He deserves a lot of blame, expecting an extremely raw QB lead an aerial attack is naive. This offense should be predicated on pounding the football with Allen occasionally airing it out to keep defenses honest. 

 

Shady is also being completely misused, guy should be used much more strategically than what he has. Murphy and Ivory should be in on 1st and 2nd down, not Shady. You put Shady in within the 20 and crucial 3rd down situations where we need to convert. Also, there is no creativity in run designs, it's like we're still in the preseason. Daboll wants to throw all the time when he should be trying to pound the ball.

 

How do you know what Daboll expects?  We can only judge his actions, not his intentions.   He might be giving Allen a lot of chances to throw the ball - with minimal expectations of immediate success - to develop his skills for next year.  

 

I agree with you that the run designs aren't creative.    

 

However, I will add that poorly skilled players can make any OC or DC look bad.  Mistakes stand out more when plays are unsuccessful.  When skilled players make good plays out of nothing, the coordinator doesn't get blamed for the initial nothing.  

[brianthomas]

3 hours ago, Buddy Hix said:

It's McD's fault...

 

Why bring in a guy who runs the EP system, which is tougher to grasp than most others, when you are intent on taking a kid who struggles with reading presnap coverage?

Where do u get that the EP system is tougher to grasp than most others? From everything i've read & heard, the whole reason the system was created in the 1st place was because it was easier for players to grasp than the others.

The E-P system specifically, is a method of conceptualizing the plays in a streamlined manner so that the offensive players are able to memorize the plays easily.

The system is built so that players can spend less time worrying about their assignment and more time focused on applying the concept from an array of formations and personnel groupings.

Idk if youre just  pulling stuff out of thin air, but maybe go to summer school for some extra help: https://www.bigblueview.com/2016/7/15/12188564/summer-school-erhardt-perkins-offense-belichick-weis-parcells-brady-patriots

[hondo in seattle]

35 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

One thing Daboll does which I never liked from coordinators is to call the offense from up in the sky box.  I think the OC needs to be on the sidelines with the players in order to 'feel' the game and the vibe of the team.  You don't get that experience by sitting up in the air conditioned/heated team suite sucking down beers and eating hot dogs.     

 

If strategy is the problem, you go to the sky box where you can see the game better.

When execution is the problem, you get on the sideline where you can coach and impact your players.

 

I agree that Daboll made the wrong call.   This offense needs a leader, and you can't be a leader of men when you're not even with your men.   

[Bring it]

Daboll is at least part of the problem! Lack of talent and a rookie QB with no veteran to help is also part of it. Anderson just got here. I realize that Daboll is still trying to figure out how to use Allen the best, but that doesn’t always mean we have to force Josh to throw 40+ times a game. 

The Green Bay game was a game that IMO Daboll missed on the game plan! Pettine’s defense are known for pressure from exotic blitzes and great success against rookie QBs! They also are weak between the tackles! You attack them down the middle. We even have a back that can do it. Ivory is a very physical back! Why Daboll didn’t push the run more I don’t understand. He seemed to realize that against the Titans! I’m willing to give him more time to figure out his players and how to use them. He better hurry  as far as this season is concerned!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, QCity said:

 

Is is even possible to suck as the OC for the Pats or Alabama? He lasted 2 years in Cleveland, 1 year in Miami, 1 year in Kansas City, and 1 year in New England before he was demoted to TE coach. Four teams in five years certainly doesn't sound like success. Talent still may be the biggest issue, but Daboll isn't helping the cause.

 

?? Daboll was never an OC in New England. He was brought back in 2013 as an "offensive assistant", a title which can mean anything but does not, in New England, mean anything close to "OC"

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

36 minutes ago, Bob in NoCal said:

...I agree that a move down to the sidelines for Daboll might be a good idea at this point. 

I'm not sure about that.  Coach McDermott seems the type willing and able to deliver a 'Moe Howard caliber dope slap' to an offensive coordinator who appears to be having troubles.

[Bangarang]

When you take a guy who’s been bad every chance he’s been an OC in the NFL and give him very little to work with the results shouldn’t be a surprise.

 

McD and BB deserve majority of the blame for this offense being what it is. Daboll gets his share of blame too but I can’t be too harsh on a guy that had no real history of producing good offenses at the pro level. 

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We'll have to disagree here.   They aren't good, but from what I've seen he's been very slow to figure out what they can do well and utilize them to best advantage.

 

I'm not sure some of these guys really do anything well.

[ctk232]

8 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

In his previous stints as coordinator haven't all his offense's ranked last in the league?

 

This year it's the same story as the Bills rank dead last in offense. 

 

Do you think it could be the case that he's the main problem and that we need a better coordinator?

 

Thoughts?

Like everything you're seeing this season, he plays a role. You have to remember this is his first year back in the NFL as well, and while he's been here before, the game is always changing and it's a new team. First year would always be rougher, even with Brady. While he's had very suspect play calls, and his route trees seem uninspired, his blame in this regard is only so warranted.

 

A greater issue is he doesn't have the QB he needs to run his offense. This is not a comment to say Allen isn't the answer, just that Allen is exactly who he is: raw, unrefined, and inconsistent. That's fine, but don't expect an offense to be able to do much when it's most important piece is raw, unrefined, and inconsistent. There are plays where we have receivers/tight ends open and Allen misses his reads or focuses on the rush - it's going to happen, but be mindful of where the ire gets directed.

 

Add in the WR corps of lost misfits, in which only Zay seems to be standing out, and a JV OL and you haven't exactly been set up for success. As with others, I'll reserve my judgment on Daboll in full until after this year and more of our offensive woes have been addressed, though I would like to see him do more to develop Allen.

Edited October 16, 2018 by ctk232

[MAJBobby]

Are we still in the Blame everybody BUT McDermott phase?

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, Like A Mofo said:

San Francisco loses their starting QB and their backup hangs 30 on the Packers last night, what is our excuse? San Francisco is on a 3rd string RB at this point?

And the difference is an experienced top 5 OC vs an OC who has never had a better than 25th offense with different QB's over a few years. Now Daboll could get better over time, It's just that him developing a rookie while attempting to learn and improve at his own job is the problem. 

 

The best offensive player on the 2018 Buffalo Bills is LeSean McCoy and 61 attempts over 5 games is showing that he is being underutilized and the game has been on the rookie QBs shoulders far too often. He is a rookie QB and shouldn't need to carry the offense all alone.

 

12 penalties for 124 yards is inexcusable and that is on coaching. Two screwups on special teams. One, a WR who has great difficulty catching passes shouldn't be on receiving kickoffs, punts. Two, a blocked punt simply shouldn't happen. Again, this is on coaching and the special teams coach stinks. The Bills OC stinks, the run game coordinator/line coach stinks. 

 

McD hired a very experienced NFL DC in Frazier, so why hire a bunch of bums to run the offense? 

[Buddy Hix]

45 minutes ago, brianthomas said:

Where do u get that the EP system is tougher to grasp than most others? From everything i've read & heard, the whole reason the system was created in the 1st place was because it was easier for players to grasp than the others.

The E-P system specifically, is a method of conceptualizing the plays in a streamlined manner so that the offensive players are able to memorize the plays easily.

The system is built so that players can spend less time worrying about their assignment and more time focused on applying the concept from an array of formations and personnel groupings.

Idk if youre just  pulling stuff out of thin air, but maybe go to summer school for some extra help: https://www.bigblueview.com/2016/7/15/12188564/summer-school-erhardt-perkins-offense-belichick-weis-parcells-brady-patriots

I can't remember if it was a podcast or maybe on WGR but Ledyard was discussing how the EP system nowadays presents a ton of options for the QB, which can be more difficult for a QB like Allen who struggles with reading coverage and decision making.

 

The summer school article briefly touches on that, "It wasn't until Charlie Weis joined those same Patriots decades later that the modern iteration of the system came to be. Instead of using a simplified passing system to minimize the duties of the QB, Weis used it to massively enhance the multiple options and possibilities within a given play."

[Xwnyer]

9 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

In his previous stints as coordinator haven't all his offense's ranked last in the league?

 

This year it's the same story as the Bills rank dead last in offense. 

 

Do you think it could be the case that he's the main problem and that we need a better coordinator?

 

Thoughts?

He sucks has no idea what a modern nfl offense should look like

[Hapless Bills Fan]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I'm not sure some of these guys really do anything well.

 

I'll give an example.  It was clear from a couple years back that several of the OLmen were decent in straight-up power blocking schemes.  Not top notch, but capable.

So at the start of the year, Daboll (or Castillo, but signed off by Daboll) had them doing lots of pin-pull stuff with multiple guys pulling, alternating with lots of cut blocking.

It was a dismal fail, and on the occasions when they did employ more straightforward stuff (duo-type stuff with no lead blocker) it was notably more successful.

Daboll would try 3 run plays resulting in -1 or -3 yards with DL/LB hurdling failed cut blocks or Ducasse tripping over Groy, then say "whups, we can't run" and put it all on Allen's arm.

 

It took until Tenn. for Daboll to get the memo and scheme up some stuff that our OL could do - and when he did, lo and behold, we were able to get 3-5 yd chunks with some very nice play design.

 

I haven't looked in as much detail, but it wouldn't surprise me if there would be similar examples in the pass game.  Don't have Benjamin going deep, for example.  He's gonna be covered like a blanket and Allen's gonna throw it away to a chorus of "look he's inaccurate on deep throws!"

 

 

[brianthomas]

22 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said:

 "It wasn't until Charlie Weis joined those same Patriots decades later that the modern iteration of the system came to be. Instead of using a simplified passing system to minimize the duties of the QB, Weis used it to massively enhance the multiple options and possibilities within a given play."

You neglected to include the following sentence: This was the Lego of offensive systems. Its inherent simplicity could be exploited to build any machine imaginable.

 

For sure Charlie Weiss built upon the system & added his own wrinkles & formations that he felt were good. I'd think any OC should/would do this. No OC just takes a vanilla system & copies it, they form it into something that they believe will work. We can debate whether Daboll has been making the wrong play calls or throwing too much on Allen too soon. But on a straight concept basis, the EP system has less terminology for players to learn &  a less complicated playbook vs other systems. Of course i'm no expert, just going off of everything ive researched into it & heard from other sources. And it makes sense.

 

In our situation i believe our issues stem more from a lack of talent in key positions such as our oline & wr group. Not to mention a QB who came from the Mountain West in college which was one giant leap to the NFL. This team wasnt really ready for Allen to be starting this year. And #2 Allen needed tons of work, from his footwork & mechanics to reading the defense both presnap & post snap. With so many big issues where any of one them could bring an offense trouble, the system itself i feel is not the problem.

 

There has been countless analysis done on Allen so far, and you can see receivers wide open all over the field. The downfield scheme has provided ample opportunities in the passing game. We just havent been executing on those chances. To me thats less on the system & more on Allen & his supporting cast.

Edited October 16, 2018 by brianthomas

[mrags]

Most of it. Like 90%

[FearLess Price]

5 hours ago, SaratogaMike said:

When your offensive line stinks, screen passes and quick hitters need to be the staple of your offense. I don't see much of that.

This.

 

We have 2 good backs and a star in mccoy.

 

Y are we not running an offense similar to Rothlisburgers rookie year?

 

Your asking a rookie who historically had a hard time reading the defense and beating the blitz with his arm in college, to read complex nfl defenses and hit down the field throws. Tallrod isnt that good yet. Let the running game be the focus with some gadget plays to mccloud foster with zay jones clay and benjamin on 3rd down plays. 

 

Jallen has shown its too much too soon for him. So take the pressure off his shoulders and call soke easy reads for him before u ruin him, hes already running from ghost pressure

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Are we still in the Blame everybody BUT McDermott phase?

 

I think we're in the "who should we blame in addition to McDermott"? phase.

 

But that could just be me.

[The Wiz]

According to Hughes, yes.

[K-9]

5 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Daboll isn’t blameless in this scenario but his hands are tied more than any coach that I can remember. They handed him an expired can of spam, brussell sprouts, a match and asked him to go win a James Beard award. While others may make a better spam and sprouts dinner it’s still going to suck. 

[Chris66]

9 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

This

 

 He was going to be the patriots next  OC when McDaniels was supposed to go to the colts. He certainly didn't suck when he was with Alabama and the Patriots. But somehow he is an idiot when he was/is on no talent teams like the Browns and Bills. We were excited about him when reading about his offense but now hes a bum. 

 

I haven't agreed with all his calls but I believe he will much better when we redo the weapons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mean like the last two weeks??

 

 

No he wasnt. The reason Dabol left for the jets after the 05 season was because BB gave McDaniels play calling duties.

 

Chad o Shea would have taken over play calling duties had McDaniels left

[K-9]

Exactly 53.7% of the blame. 

[Happy]

4 minutes ago, Chris66 said:

No he wasnt. The reason Dabol left for the jets after the 05 season was because BB gave McDaniels play calling duties.

 

Chad o Shea would have taken over play calling duties had McDaniels left

 

Interesting.  So Daboll wasn't going to cut it with BB.  And to think we were all proud that we stole Daboll from NE, where he was just going to be an assistant with no scheming or play calling duties.

[Chris66]

4 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Interesting.  So Daboll wasn't going to cut it with BB.  And to think we were all proud that we stole Daboll from NE, where he was just going to be an assistant with no scheming or play calling duties.

Dont get me wrong BB likes Dabol. He has given him a job everytime he has needed one.

[TFBillsfan]

IMO, he deserves just as much of the blame as anyone else. Players not lining up correctly, few rub routes, screens, short passes, reverse direction, motion, etc. Yes, talent is lacking but he continues to try to throw deep routes with WR’s who can’t separate, an OL that struggles to block and a QB who is still learning. The deep out he called with NP in the game was inexcusable and down right idiotic. Everyone knows NP can’t make that throw except NP, McDermott and Daboll!

[Rebel101]

A lot a blind and def new born infant knows the Buffalo Bills are handing it off on first down. He has been out coached every game besides the minn game his schemes are basic no idea how to help get receivers open or how to put his rookie QB in a situation to read the field easily he was a waste

Edited October 16, 2018 by Rebel101

[ColoradoBills]

Daboll, along with the entire staff around the offense deserves blame but I agree that the #1 problem is talent.

I hear so many different things from fans saying what "he needs to do" it's really funny.

 

1.  People want him to simplify his play calling while others say he runs too simple of a scheme.

2.  Quick hit passes.  That is Allen's weakness.......he can't see them yet.

3.  Screen plays.......sure makes sense except that screen plays are designed with the OL having a lot of responsibility.

4.  Scheme to protect the OL.

5.  Scheme to help the WRs.

6.  Ground and Pound.........Bills are second to last in Yards per Run.  Ivory is averaging 2.5 yards per carry.

 

The players on offense cannot even line up correctly (something they should know how to do since PeeWee)

Bills offense has the MOST penalties of any team in the league.  These are drive killers.

 

Daboll may never be an elite or outstanding or even better than average OC.  I don't know that yet but don't tell me that

the talent doesn't have a lions share of blame when an offense is averaging 3.7 yards per play.

 

3.7 yards per play is "historically bad".  These guys are playing football.  You score points by running, passing and blocking better than the D.

Better schemes win you Divisions and Super Bowls this teams O talent can't execute simple plays.

 

I'm done with my rant.  They can fire Daboll and hire any OC they want but until they get better players the O will suck.

[FistingBot]

Daboll is offensive coordinator in Cleveland 2009-2010. Worst offense in the league. Fans: "it's not Daboll, it's a lack of talent"

Daboll is offensive coordinator in Miami 2011. Among the worst offenses in the league. Fans: "it's not Daboll, it's a lack of talent"

Daboll is offensive coordinator in Kansas City 2012. Worst offense in the league. Fans: "it's not Daboll, it's a lack of talent"

 

….now Daboll is offensive coordinator in Buffalo. Worst offense in the league. Fans: "it's not Daboll, it's a lack of talent"

 

Daboll is like my ex-wife. Never at fault. ?

 

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, October 1918 said:

Daboll is offensive coordinator in Cleveland 2009-2010. Worst offense in the league. Fans: "it's not Daboll, it's a lack of talent"

Daboll is offensive coordinator in Miami 2011. Among the worst offenses in the league. Fans: "it's not Daboll, it's a lack of talent"

Daboll is offensive coordinator in Kansas City 2012. Worst offense in the league. Fans: "it's not Daboll, it's a lack of talent"

 

….now Daboll is offensive coordinator in Buffalo. Worst offense in the league. Fans: "it's not Daboll, it's a lack of talent"

 

Daboll is like my ex-wife. Never at fault. ?

 

 

All that is true.  Now go look at his Head Coaches (all of them fired and among the worse in the league) and his QBs.

[Reed83HOF]

27 minutes ago, October 1918 said:

Daboll is offensive coordinator in Cleveland 2009-2010. Worst offense in the league. Fans: "it's not Daboll, it's a lack of talent"

Daboll is offensive coordinator in Miami 2011. Among the worst offenses in the league. Fans: "it's not Daboll, it's a lack of talent"

Daboll is offensive coordinator in Kansas City 2012. Worst offense in the league. Fans: "it's not Daboll, it's a lack of talent"

 

….now Daboll is offensive coordinator in Buffalo. Worst offense in the league. Fans: "it's not Daboll, it's a lack of talent"

 

Daboll is like my ex-wife. Never at fault. ?

 

Overall talent on those teams were also not great; GMs/HCs left a lot to be desired as well

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'll give an example.  It was clear from a couple years back that several of the OLmen were decent in straight-up power blocking schemes.  Not top notch, but capable.

So at the start of the year, Daboll (or Castillo, but signed off by Daboll) had them doing lots of pin-pull stuff with multiple guys pulling, alternating with lots of cut blocking.

It was a dismal fail, and on the occasions when they did employ more straightforward stuff (duo-type stuff with no lead blocker) it was notably more successful.

Daboll would try 3 run plays resulting in -1 or -3 yards with DL/LB hurdling failed cut blocks or Ducasse tripping over Groy, then say "whups, we can't run" and put it all on Allen's arm.

 

It took until Tenn. for Daboll to get the memo and scheme up some stuff that our OL could do - and when he did, lo and behold, we were able to get 3-5 yd chunks with some very nice play design.

 

I haven't looked in as much detail, but it wouldn't surprise me if there would be similar examples in the pass game.  Don't have Benjamin going deep, for example.  He's gonna be covered like a blanket and Allen's gonna throw it away to a chorus of "look he's inaccurate on deep throws!"

 

 

 

They have definitely had more success running since they simplified their blocking scheme but it isn't all positive. Ducasse who was decent through three weeks has sucked since because he couldn't block his dinner straight up 1 v 1 in run or pass. Equally the point of the more complicated rushing scheme they were trying to run was it set up the pass better. Daboll is a package play guy he wants looks that are the same that you can run, pass or option out of. That is harder when you are trotting out 21 personnel blocking the man in front and trying to run it down their throats. 

[Victory Formation]

The whole 'talent' argument. First off, I'm not so sure about that. Shady has had a HOF career and he has really struggled this year, once again, it's like no thought was put into our run blocking designs, none. Ivory and Murphy should also be way more productive, I miss the complexity of Greg Roman's run designs, I think Allen could really benefit from being on a power run team. This offense Daboll is running is for more polished and seasoned QBs, not someone that should have been sat down a year.

 

Bottom line, this offense is meant to create mismatches in the passing game, which in theory sounds great if you have a QB that is developed, which we do not. So far Daboll's offense has been a complete disaster in terms of running the football. How much of this is talent? Let me ask you guys this, if we gutted our entire offense, all of the players, gone. Would you be surprised if some of our guys ended up with New England, LA and KC?

[GunnerBill]

Look I am not saying Daboll is great or even good. There is nothing in his history to suggest he is a great OC. I am saying you bring a guy in to run his offense and give him players who can't execute. They did it with Rick Dennison last year and they have done it with Daboll this year. The biggest problem last year was not Dennison. The biggest problem this year is not Daboll. 

 

The talent sucks folks. Not just a bit. A lot. LeSean McCoy apart this might be one of the least talented offenses that has ever taken an NFL field.