Did Gaine leaving front office set us back?

[Big Blitz]

Was our VP of Player Personnel.

 

He leaves in January to be Houston's new GM.

 

His replacement, Dan Morgan, another Carolina connection is hired to be his replacement on May 4.  Was this bc of the draft?  Couldn't get one sooner?

 

Just my 2 cents but based on the player Personnel decisions and the inability to adequately fill the voids left by Incog and Wood tell me this was a front office not prepared for this development.  They took too long to find a replacement.....and the guy we replaced may have been really really good.

 

If this has been discussed somewhere, apologies.

 

 

For me, culture and process isnt getting a franchise QB.  Its having top quality Personnel guys. 

 

So far since Gaine left:

 

Trent Murphy 

Star Lawholalay

Vontae "I'm out" Davis

Corey Coleman...cut

Jeremy Kerley....cut

 

And holes everywhere.  

 

 

[MJS]

The cap and dead money are the real issues here. We simply do not have the money to pay a quality roster.

 

But that changes next year.

[Skins Malone]

Got to remember also these maynot have been the Bill's first choices.  Sometimes you have to take what u can get

[Buffalo716]

Brian Gaine is was great at his job.

 

When we replaced him it certainly looked like a downgrade to me

[Buffalo Barbarian]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Brian Gaine is was great at his job.

 

When we replaced him it certainly looked like a downgrade to me

 

Sounds like a good job for you.

 

 

[Klaista2k]

Beane sucks.

 

Wish we had Gaine instead. 

[CaptnCoke11]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

The cap and dead money are the real issues here. We simply do not have the money to pay a quality roster.

 

But that changes next year.

All that cap space doesn’t mean much at all.. Cleveland has tons every year and does nothing.  That’s just one example

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

The cap and dead money are the real issues here. We simply do not have the money to pay a quality roster.

 

But that changes next year.

 

Even more reason why the money they did spend had to be spent very wisely. Early returns on this FA class have not been good.

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

The cap and dead money are the real issues here. We simply do not have the money to pay a quality roster.

 

But that changes next year.

 

Nailed it MJS.  We’re going to suffer this year, and hopefully Allen takes his lumps, and learns the speed of the game.  We’ll resign the. Quality players, and probably get a free agent OLineman and WR .   Then we’ll probably not trade up, but use all 10 picks to create depth and a couple of starters.

 

im starting to think it will be 2020 as our year.  We might get to 8-8 next year, after a 2-14 season this year.

[BuffaloSol]

Why the do teams poach from us? Its mindboggling, we are a team that had a 17 year playoff draught and we have still gotten poached. Guys like anthony lynn, pettine, gaine, etc... Can anyone explain this to me?

[Coach Tuesday]

Maybe so.

 

The Pegulas need to wake up ASAP.  Rookie owners with a rookie GM and rookie pro personnel head and a rookie coach are driving this team off a cliff.

 

And the thing is, it’s happened to them before so it’s amazing they haven’t learned - literally this is the one experience they’ve had already.

 

The Sabres bottomed out and ended up with Eichel and a boatload of draftpicks and free agent dollars to spend, and the Pegulas’ rookie GM squandered all of it and set the team back five years.

 

Now the Bills sacrificed resources to land Allen and are heading into 2019 with a ton of draft picks and free agent dollars... and all of the evidence suggests that the rookie GM may squander the opportunity..... how can they not be aware of this?

[CommonCents]

9 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Maybe so.

 

The Pegulas need to wake up ASAP.  Rookie owners with a rookie GM and rookie pro personnel head and a rookie coach are driving this team off a cliff.

 

And the thing is, it’s happened to them before so it’s amazing they haven’t learned - literally this is the one experience they’ve had already.

 

The Sabres bottomed out and ended up with Eichel and a boatload of draftpicks and free agent dollars to spend, and the Pegulas’ rookie GM squandered all of it and set the team back five years.

 

Now the Bills sacrificed resources to land Allen and are heading into 2019 with a ton of draft picks and free agent dollars... and all of the evidence suggests that the rookie GM may squander the opportunity..... how can they not be aware of this?

They have a grand plan. Beane’s offseason intentions were to fool the league into thinking his inept. He wants the number one pick in 19’ so he can weave up and down the board and have the “best draft ever”. His horrible pro personnel decisions are so no team takes Buffalo serious in FA negotiations and they can remain under the radar while signing the cream of the crop.

 

It’s going to be beautiful....in all seriousness if Allen didn’t look the part these guys wouldn’t be able to sit down at work because their chairs would be so hot.

[The_Dude]

Not sure if it was Gainen leaving or Beane staying. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by The_Dude

[baskingridgebillsfan]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

The cap and dead money are the real issues here. We simply do not have the money to pay a quality roster.

 

But that changes next year.

That does not explain the players brought in for this year.  

A lot of people are saying everything will be fine next year because they have a ton of cap room.  What did they do the offseason to prove they can pick the right players.  

This is beane’s roster and his plan.  All we can do is hope he has a successful offseason .  

[mjt328]

6 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Was our VP of Player Personnel.

 

He leaves in January to be Houston's new GM.

 

His replacement, Dan Morgan, another Carolina connection is hired to be his replacement on May 4.  Was this bc of the draft?  Couldn't get one sooner?

 

Just my 2 cents but based on the player Personnel decisions and the inability to adequately fill the voids left by Incog and Wood tell me this was a front office not prepared for this development.  They took too long to find a replacement.....and the guy we replaced may have been really really good.

 

If this has been discussed somewhere, apologies.

 

 

For me, culture and process isnt getting a franchise QB.  Its having top quality Personnel guys. 

 

So far since Gaine left:

 

Trent Murphy 

Star Lawholalay

Vontae "I'm out" Davis

Corey Coleman...cut

Jeremy Kerley....cut

 

And holes everywhere.  

 

 

 

Based on the number of holes we had in the offseason (QB, WR, C, RG, RT, DE, DT, DT, SLB, MLB, CB), it was never going to be slightly realistic that we would be able to fill every weak point on the roster.  It had nothing to do with the person sitting behind the desk.

 

The Bills went into Free Agency with about $25 million in space for 2018, then raised that to about $32 million after trading away Cordy Glenn and Tyrod Taylor.  Out of that amount, a team needs to keep roughly $8-10 million in reserve for the rookie contracts and emergency signings.  By my counts, they had at least 12 starting spots that needed serious upgrades - without even starting to consider the depth/bench positions.  A decent starting-level free agent will usually run a team between $4 and 8 million each.  Big names can often be twice that amount. 

 

Do the math.  At most, the Bills were looking at around 3-5 decent free agent signings at the absolute max.  By the time they re-signed Kyle Williams, then added Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy, AJ McCarron and Vontae Davis - that money was pretty much gone.  To make matters worse, Ritchie Incognito retired well AFTER free agency had run its course, opening another massive hole on the roster.

 

Now, it's definitely fair to say that McCarron was a busted signing.  But the other suggested free agent options on the market (Case Keenum, Sam Bradford, Teddy Bridgewater, etc.) all signed for WAY MORE with other teams, and would have virtually wiped out our cap space by themselves.  Same with keeping Taylor.  Considering the fact that Beane was already planning a big move up the draft board, I think it was smart to wait and take the chance with a bargain in McCarron.  We got him for $3 million.  The Cardinals signed Bradford for $20 million, and he probably won't make it through the first month of the season before getting replaced by Josh Rosen.

 

It's also fair to criticize the swap of EJ Gaines and Davis, especially after the nonsense that happened this week.  And I would guess that even Beane admits this decision was a mistake.  They could have brought back Gaines for roughly the same amount.  My guess is that Beane believed Gaines was unreliable because of injury, and was hoping Davis was ready to return to Pro-Bowl form.  It was a bad calculation.

 

At this point, it's too early to judge the additions of Lotulelei or Murphy.  Personally, I think both guys are playing OK.  And the signings of Jeremy Kerley, Corey Coleman, Marshall Newhouse, Russell Bodine, etc. were basically the front office trying to get something out of the few dollars/resources they had left.  This is something every team is forced to do when cap space is gone. 

 

Bottom line... This front office decided the best course for Buffalo was to rebuild from the ground-up.  They didn't see a way of long-term success without a franchise quarterback.  They didn't see a way of long-term success with the bloated underachieving contracts they current had on the books.  The solution to both problems was trading away talent for draft picks.  A season like this was the unfortunate side-effect.  It just wasn't possible for us to re-stock talent as quickly as we got rid of it.  Next year is  completely different story.

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Was our VP of Player Personnel.

 

He leaves in January to be Houston's new GM.

 

His replacement, Dan Morgan, another Carolina connection is hired to be his replacement on May 4.  Was this bc of the draft?  Couldn't get one sooner?

 

Just my 2 cents but based on the player Personnel decisions and the inability to adequately fill the voids left by Incog and Wood tell me this was a front office not prepared for this development.  They took too long to find a replacement.....and the guy we replaced may have been really really good.

 

If this has been discussed somewhere, apologies.

 

 

For me, culture and process isnt getting a franchise QB.  Its having top quality Personnel guys. 

 

So far since Gaine left:

 

Trent Murphy 

Star Lawholalay

Vontae "I'm out" Davis

Corey Coleman...cut

Jeremy Kerley....cut

 

And holes everywhere. 

 

Judging by the results, the player personnel department could indeed use an overhaul. 

Without knowing their management structure, it's hard to tell what that overhaul is, though.  Maybe it's Beane - I believe he said he personally reviews every decision?

Maybe they bring him 3 choices and he deliberately picks the splashiest, highest ceiling lowest floor path each time.

 

I have felt for some time that the Bills medical evaluation process is flawed, and with Murphy and Davis that still seems to be an issue.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Was our VP of Player Personnel.

 

He leaves in January to be Houston's new GM.

 

His replacement, Dan Morgan, another Carolina connection is hired to be his replacement on May 4.  Was this bc of the draft?  Couldn't get one sooner?

 

Just my 2 cents but based on the player Personnel decisions and the inability to adequately fill the voids left by Incog and Wood tell me this was a front office not prepared for this development.  They took too long to find a replacement.....and the guy we replaced may have been really really good.

 

If this has been discussed somewhere, apologies.

 

 

For me, culture and process isnt getting a franchise QB.  Its having top quality Personnel guys. 

 

So far since Gaine left:

 

Trent Murphy 

Star Lawholalay

Vontae "I'm out" Davis

Corey Coleman...cut

Jeremy Kerley....cut

 

And holes everywhere.  

 

 

 

Trent Murphy is fantastic in madden 19, so there that? 

[Jobot]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

The cap and dead money are the real issues here. We simply do not have the money to pay a quality roster.

 

But that changes next year.

 

The first two guys on that list got paid pretty well..

[CuddyDark]

Yes.

[corta765]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

The cap and dead money are the real issues here. We simply do not have the money to pay a quality roster.

 

But that changes next year.

 

Something most people just won't grasp.

[blacklabel]

The near-constant criticism of the FA signings is silly. People saying the Bills did wrong or didn't do enough to sign this guy or that guy, it's dumb. It takes two to tango. The player has to wanna sign here. 

 

Since Beane's taken over, the Bills seem to have been linked to all sorts of free agents or players on the trade block, more than any previous FO I can recall in recent memory. They're always actively looking to see what's available. But they're limited in cap space and again, they can't force players to sign here.

 

And just like players, personnel executives get opportunities to work elsewhere. It's just business.

 

Day after day this board is just flooded with, "Do the Bills suck this year because of this? Or is it this? Should they fire everyone? Should they push the stadium into Lake Erie? Should they make the whole team retire?" It's a friggin' rebuild.

 

2019... 10 draft picks and I have no doubt they'll find ways to acquire more, and a truckload of cap space. It'll come together.

Edited September 19, 2018 by blacklabel

[Al Czervik]

50 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Bottom line... This front office decided the best course for Buffalo was to rebuild from the ground-up.  They didn't see a way of long-term success without a franchise quarterback.  They didn't see a way of long-term success with the bloated underachieving contracts they current had on the books.  The solution to both problems was trading away talent for draft picks.  A season like this was the unfortunate side-effect.  It just wasn't possible for us to re-stock talent as quickly as we got rid of it.  Next year is  completely different story.

 

 

 

 

This post pretty much sums things up as I see it.  Last year was McBean's first go and a "show me" year to see what they had.  They decided a full re-build was in order and literally blew up last year's team to eat dead cap and acquire draft capital.

 

2018 was never about making the playoffs again...this year was guaranteed pain.  The older vets they signed were supposed "good character" guys who were necessary to fill out the roster and field a team for the season.  Next year the reconstruction starts. 

 

As mentioned above there is no guarantee the rebuild will be a slam dunk (like the sabres example) but nothing McBean has done on the tear down makes me think they will automatically blow the rebuild.

 

[CommonCents]

54 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Trent Murphy is fantastic in madden 19, so there that? 

Moves like the Tin Man on Sundays

[apuszczalowski]

2 hours ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

That does not explain the players brought in for this year.  

A lot of people are saying everything will be fine next year because they have a ton of cap room.  What did they do the offseason to prove they can pick the right players.  

This is beane’s roster and his plan.  All we can do is hope he has a successful offseason .  

 

If they were making decision  because of low cap space, why would they waste some of it by bringing in Coleman and dumping him after only a couple weeks? Wouldn't you at least hold onto him a bit longer and see what you can do with a bit more time. 

 

And what has this front office shown that would indicate they are going to use the freed cap space next year, and if so, they still need to convince the player to come sign here to a team pretty void of talent. The only thing these guys have shown so far is that they are willing to do whatever it take to get their guy in the draft, and they are usually only interested in bringing in and keeping players they have had previous experience with.

Edited September 19, 2018 by apuszczalowski

[Heavy Kevi]

Hard for me to gauge if Gaine leaving hurt us.

 

But I do know for sure that Gaines leaving hurt us.

[MJS]

8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Brian Gaine is was great at his job.

 

When we replaced him it certainly looked like a downgrade to me

 

How could you possibly know that?

[CuddyDark]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

How could you possibly know that?

They replaced him with Dan Morgan.

[apuszczalowski]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

 

Something most people just won't grasp.

People understand it, most are just against it pr have their issues with it because it was self inflicted. They put themselves in a situation where they cant do anything now to help their QB and team because they decided to cut/trade any talent they had left for picks, and make dumb personnel decisions such as trading for then releasing Coleman

[LSHMEAB]

I continue to hear "last year was a mirage" as some kind of justification for this year's awful performance. It really makes no sense.

 

By any measure, shouldn't we be better in year TWO of a rebuild?

 

I really don't understand why this particular front office is getting such a free pass. The fact that we're worse in year two is not a good thing. It's a bad thing. How is such regression a sign of progress?

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by LSHMEAB

[FistingBot]

I see my post last night ended up the topic of a new thread.   ?

 

Our free agent signings of a year ago played quite well for the most part (Poyer, Hyde, Holmes, Hauschka, DiMarco, etc.). This year's group (McCaron, Davis, Murphy, Lotulelei, Kerley, Bodine, etc.) seems to not be quite as impactful as last year's group (yet?). So, the main change to the pro personnel staff was Gaine out and Morgan in. Time will tell, but it seems we lost a good talent evaluator (as evidenced by Houston hiring him back as their GM). Two games in and McCaron, Davis, and Kerley aren't even on the roster. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement for our pro personnel staff.

 

 

[Lurker]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Judging by the results, the player personnel department could indeed use an overhaul. 

Without knowing their management structure, it's hard to tell what that overhaul is, though.  Maybe it's Beane - I believe he said he personally reviews every decision?

Maybe they bring him 3 choices and he deliberately picks the splashiest, highest ceiling lowest floor path each time.

 

Malik Boyd is the Pro Personnel Director.    He'd likely have a lot to say during free agency, as would Joe Schoen, the assistant GM...

 

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

I continue to hear "last year was a mirage" as some kind of justification for this year's awful performance. It really makes no sense.

 

By any measure, shouldn't we be better in year TWO of a rebuild?

 

I really don't understand why this particular front office is getting such a free pass. The fact that we're worse in year two is not a good thing. It's a bad thing. How is such regression a sign of progress?

 

 

Brandon Beane didn't come around until AFTER the 2017 Draft. 

The first moves in the roster tear-down were the Sammy Watkins/Ronald Darby trades, both of which occurred during the Preseason in August 2017. 

That's just about 13 months ago.

 

Calling it "Year Two" of the rebuild is quite a stretch.

 

 

The main reason for the Bills regressing is that we traded away our veteran QB (Tyrod Taylor) and replaced him with a Top 10 rookie (Josh Allen).  Even if we fielded a better overall roster than the 2017 team that went 9-7, the Bills almost certainly would have STILL taken a significant step backwards this year.  That's what happens when you play a young/inexperienced Quarterback.

 

The only realistic way the 2018 Bills could have been competitive this year was by keeping Taylor another season.  That would have cost us the extra 3rd Round Pick we got from Cleveland, along with an additional $13 million on the salary cap (Taylor's hit was $16 million, McCarron was $3 million).  Which means that we probably would have filled LESS holes on the roster, for the sole purpose of maybe competing for a Wild Card spot this year.  Personally, I would rather take our lumps this season... get a Top 5 pick... and then be ready to move forward next year.

 

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

 

How could you possibly know that?

Because I made a thread on it when it happened 

 

Gaine is very very respected in football circles and was seen as a GM in waiting for a  team for a long time.. he was definitely a great asset to the franchise 

 

Morgan at the time looked like a downgrade to me because of how respected Gaine is

12 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Sounds like a good job for you.

 

 

 

Thanks ? 

 

that would be a dream job for anybody in football 

 

problem is Terry blocked my # after all those phone calls ?

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

Brandon Beane didn't come around until AFTER the 2017 Draft. 

The first moves in the roster tear-down were the Sammy Watkins/Ronald Darby trades, both of which occurred during the Preseason in August 2017. 

That's just about 13 months ago.

 

Calling it "Year Two" of the rebuild is quite a stretch.

 

 

The main reason for the Bills regressing is that we traded away our veteran QB (Tyrod Taylor) and replaced him with a Top 10 rookie (Josh Allen).  Even if we fielded a better overall roster than the 2017 team that went 9-7, the Bills almost certainly would have STILL taken a significant step backwards this year.  That's what happens when you play a young/inexperienced Quarterback.

 

The only realistic way the 2018 Bills could have been competitive this year was by keeping Taylor another season.  That would have cost us the extra 3rd Round Pick we got from Cleveland, along with an additional $13 million on the salary cap (Taylor's hit was $16 million, McCarron was $3 million).  Which means that we probably would have filled LESS holes on the roster, for the sole purpose of maybe competing for a Wild Card spot this year.  Personally, I would rather take our lumps this season... get a Top 5 pick... and then be ready to move forward next year.

 

I could live with everything you said if the defense wasn't so bad.. That is the area that concerns me most. I actually liked Tyrod, but he is who he is. 

 

The fact that they DID spend money on the defense and they've regressed ALOT from last season should be concerning to everyone as to whether or not McDermott is the answer. I can live with a rookie QB playing like a rookie if I thought they at least have a plan in place defensively. I didn't like the Allen pick and don't think he's gonna pan out, but that is what it is as well.

 

Why is the defense so atrocious if this regime knows what they're doing?

[26CornerBlitz]

So Houston's Gaine is our loss? 

[mjt328]

3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I could live with everything you said if the defense wasn't so bad.. That is the area that concerns me most. I actually liked Tyrod, but he is who he is. 

 

The fact that they DID spend money on the defense and they've regressed ALOT from last season should be concerning to everyone as to whether or not McDermott is the answer. I can live with a rookie QB playing like a rookie if I thought they at least have a plan in place defensively. I didn't like the Allen pick and don't think he's gonna pan out, but that is what it is as well.

 

Why is the defense so atrocious if this regime knows what they're doing?

 

Let the season play out a few more games, and give the defense a chance to turn things around.

They had some very bad stretches last season too.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

13 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Because I made a thread on it when it happened 

 

Gaine is very very respected in football circles and was seen as a GM in waiting for a  team for a long time.. he was definitely a great asset to the franchise 

 

Morgan at the time looked like a downgrade to me because of how respected Gaine is

 

Thanks ? 

 

that would be a dream job for anybody in football 

 

problem is Terry blocked my # after all those phone calls ?

 

can't just do heavy breathing over the phone

 

 

[Buffalo716]

10 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

can't just do heavy breathing over the phone

 

 

 

I was nervous!?