Calling Shananigans On the JA hate

[Buffalo86]

 

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

We ran a lot of short throws last week and for some reason this week we weren't calling those routes. I do wonder how the offense would have looked if Clay and Benjamin catch two passes right in their hands and Allen is given that 1st down. In a single half of football it only takes 3 plays like that to cause a big swing in momentum.

 

I didn't understand the decision to rush the punt team out there when Allen dove near the first down marker, either.  

 

If our O-line is this bad, Allen will be playing very soon regardless of which QB starts week 1.  

 

[Dr.Sack]

1 minute ago, OldTimer1960 said:

He did today - subject him to that for a season (or half a season) and he will have happy feet and throw to nobody - ruined...

 

Not true. Some things can be fixed. He will need to get to the line earlier, diagnose presnap, and get the ball out early. I didn’t see many easy throws like you see Brady commonly gets, mainly WR screens, misdirections and 3-step hitches. He just will need time to get a handle of things. Benching him will delay that process.

[GoodHands15]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

We ran a lot of short throws last week and for some reason this week we weren't calling those routes. I do wonder how the offense would have looked if Clay and Benjamin catch two passes right in their hands and Allen is given that 1st down. In a single half of football it only takes 3 plays like that to cause a big swing in momentum.

 

Right. It was like Daboll was playing with “what can an can’t we do with Josh”

 

Week 1 we saw deep routes— ok

Week 2 we saw JA running dink dunk NP plays.— Admiral to the point of 1st team reps

 

Week 3 was almost in between. Plays that Josh would need to drop...step up maybe a step or two and rip. —Incapable due to 1st string O-line gap to competition.

 

Call it ignorance. But I believe JA could’ve—and would have—made every read and throw Nate did in just as timely of a manner given the line + COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PLAY CALLS WHERE THE FIRST READ WAS A HIGH PROBABILITY 5-7 YARD THROW.

 

(Maybe except for KB throw that’s just a NP:KB thing there)

 

 

I truely think Daboll was putting Josh through his own little experiment...because...it’s... an exibhition game. 

 

But I do still feel the “We can’t start Josh because he’ll die” arguement does not fly in in a room full of millionaires who get paid to go sacrifice their bodies for the sake of my entertainment. The experience gap is too close to rationalize that to a locker room. 

[Andy1]

I love Josh but Peterman has earned the right to start. Josh just admitted that he had some difficulty diagnosing the defense as the play clock was winding down. Also said he could be quicker getting into and out of the huddle. I think we go with Peterman due to his mental edge over Allen at this stage. I like everything about Peterman except his out throws to the far sideline. I think Dabol can manage that though with play design. Allen's time will come when he is ready. 

[bills11]

Anyone who blames Allen for todays debacle doesnt know football..The offensive line was atrocious...the wrs had trouble separating. Could he have gotten rid of the ball a hair sooner sure..but just contrast the time he had to dalton or barkley..on the td pass to aj green dalton has over 3 seconds to throw..on the one play in the first half allen barely finishes his drop before ducasses is pushed right back into his lap.

[Thurman#1]

53 minutes ago, GoodHands15 said:

Ok enough is enough. No one is giving JA any credit for getting the $?!@ kicked out of him and getting back up—AND signaling Daboll to put him under center as opposed to the gun.

 

I needed to see Josh Allen get pummeled and not turn the ball over. He DID that. YOU SAW NERVES. I definitely believe there was a little of that. He never set for that ball to Clay, which was a rookie move, he just slung it... and over compensated on the next shot. 

 

Outside of of those two plays. He had drops, a bad no challenge, and an absolute joke of an oline. But the one thing I 100% saw was that the pressure did not make his scared to stand in the pocket which is huge. No throwing off the back foot, no bailing out immediately. You could almost see him forcing himself to stand in there...almost like he was making a point to trust it.

 

I don’t think at any point did he look like garbage. He did all that he could while being asked to wait on intermediate routes.

 

Show the kid a little love for having a pair!

 

 

 

Hate? Please.

 

So many of you people don't know what hate looks like. What you're seeing her is what happens when a guy looks like he's not ready yet.

 

Most people seem to feel that anything other than unqualified jock-sniffing fanboy love is hate. And that ain't so.

[Green Lightning]

34 minutes ago, GoodHands15 said:

 

How do you expect him to get the ball out faster when he’s waiting on 15-20 yard routes to develop?

By reading the D and getting shorter passes out ala Peterman.

[BmarvB]

He'll be a good one for us once we fortify the o-line

 

[GoodHands15]

25 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

He did today - subject him to that for a season (or half a season) and he will have happy feet and throw to nobody - ruined...

This is the fallacy

[CSBill]

40 minutes ago, Steptide said:

No doubt his o line was puke, but HE DID hesitate and hold the ball too long as bad as Tyrod in a playoff game. He's young and new to this league. I'm sure he was fairly nervous. I think he will start at some point this season. But looking at things through un biased eyes, Peterman is just the better qb right now. 

 

Maybe, just maybe, the receivers weren't open?

[DocLawless]

I LOVED the Josh Allen pick, and I don't blame him at all for today, but I don't know if I want to see him get destroyed behind that line all season. With that said, I will be ok with whoever they name to be the starter for this season. Although I don't think it should be McCarron. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by DocLawless

[Ga boy]

40 minutes ago, GoodHands15 said:

 

This.

Ditto.

[scribo]

I was at the game, focusing on the WRs, TEs and RBs the first-half. Just like last week when McCarron was at the helm, the receivers were not getting any separation, often running into traffic. The TEs and RBs were trying to bloch and releasing late, giving nothing in the way check down options in time considering the paper-thin o-line. Oddly vanilla offense for the 1s each of the past two games now.

[Ga boy]

2 minutes ago, DocLawless said:

I LOVED the Josh Allen pick, and I don't blame him at all for today, but I don't know if I want to see him get destroyed behind that line all season. With that said, I will be ok with whoever they name to be the starter for this season. Although I don't think it should be McCarron. 

With this O line at this point, NP gives you a quick release and I think he understands the playbook and the angles on D, and he can put the ball through a tire hanging from a tree on a rope 10-35 yards away.   These 5 things could get us to the playoffs again:  however, the O line has to become at least average.  Also, I'd take accuracy over being able to chunk it 60 yards.  

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, GoodHands15 said:

Ok enough is enough. No one is giving JA any credit for getting the $?!@ kicked out of him and getting back up—AND signaling Daboll to put him under center as opposed to the gun.

 

I needed to see Josh Allen get pummeled and not turn the ball over. He DID that. YOU SAW NERVES. I definitely believe there was a little of that. He never set for that ball to Clay, which was a rookie move, he just slung it... and over compensated on the next shot. 

 

Outside of of those two plays. He had drops, a bad no challenge, and an absolute joke of an oline. But the one thing I 100% saw was that the pressure did not make his scared to stand in the pocket which is huge. No throwing off the back foot, no bailing out immediately. You could almost see him forcing himself to stand in there...almost like he was making a point to trust it.

 

I don’t think at any point did he look like garbage. He did all that he could while being asked to wait on intermediate routes.

 

Show the kid a little love for having a pair!

The stage clearly isn't too big for the kid. Great silver lining from an ugly SCRIMMAGE game. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by JerseyBills

[GoodHands15]

1 minute ago, Ga boy said:

With this O line at this point, NP gives you a quick release and I think he understands the playbook and the angles on D, and he can put the ball through a tire hanging from a tree on a rope 10-35 yards away.   These 5 things could get us to the playoffs again:  however, the O line has to become at least average.  Also, I'd take accuracy over being able to chunk it 60 yards.  

 

What about the quick release we saw basically an entire half last week with a whole different play calling scheme?

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, Misterbluesky said:

You can't teach hate...it's that same fans that hated the pick when it happened.Blind is blind....

Hell I hated the pick and still think he got tossed to the wolves today.  No excuse for that poor of protection.  I even pointed out in the 1st half thread he was sacked in under 4 seconds with 7 blockers and only a 4 man rush.  You can't evaluate someone under those conditions.

[Thurman#1]

33 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

 

Not true. Some things can be fixed. He will need to get to the line earlier, diagnose presnap, and get the ball out early. I didn’t see many easy throws like you see Brady commonly gets, mainly WR screens, misdirections and 3-step hitches. He just will need time to get a handle of things. Benching him will delay that process.

 

 

Benching rookies doesn't delay processes like this. You can learn nearly as well from the sideline, especially so when you're talking about a guy who doesn't know NFL defenses well yet.

 

And while we're already seeing choruses of "Allen only had long throws called for him while Peterman had shorter ones," it's far more likely that Peterman just better diagnosed what the defenses were giving him, made smarter and quicker reads and get the ball out quicker. Which is not surprising when you're comparing a second-year guy to a rookie before his first season has even started.

 

You can reach a point where you've learned about as much as you can learn from the sidelines and need to get in and play to make significant progress. That point is well over the horizon at this point.

 

And they're still facing mostly vanilla defenses as you'd expect in preseason games.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Augie]

Where did this come from? Who’s hating? He did great considering the OL an WR group looked like a steaming pile of horse poop. 

 

 

.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Augie

[Ol Dirty B]

I agree. Today wasn't on Allen. However, I did not need to see him take all of those hits and be let down by teammates. I'm not sure what anyone gets out of this 

[atlbillsfan1975]

59 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

He was -5 yards passing. It's not blame, it's not hate, it's not saying he's a bust, it's saying he probably needs a little more time. With an offensive line is horrible as this you got to get rid of the ball faster. Is what it is. Deal with it.

Who on this roster is good at this? 

Peterman? McCarron? Face it Allen is as good a QB as those guys today. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

59 minutes ago, fridge said:

I’ve yet to encounter anyone blaming Josh Allen.

 

You've chosen your threads with care.

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

I don't know if it's Allen's fault yet. The all 22 will show if the receivers were getting shut down. My biggest question the whole first half was where is the check down option? If he wasn't looking to his check down with pressure about to be in his face it's on him. But either way there was far too much adversity in this game for a rookie QB to be productive. Horrible blocking, dropped passes, dumb penalties, a 1st down run given a bad spot. I don't think Allen played poorly, it's just hard to evaluate it at all right now.

huh.  every single sack play had zero time to develop. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Hell I hated the pick and still think he got tossed to the wolves today.  No excuse for that poor of protection.  I even pointed out in the 1st half thread he was sacked in under 4 seconds with 7 blockers and only a 4 man rush.  You can't evaluate someone under those conditions.

 

It was like a freakin' jailbreak.  I swear I saw a Cincy DLman hurdling one of our guys at one point.

 

 

[Ol Dirty B]

8 minutes ago, scribo said:

I was at the game, focusing on the WRs, TEs and RBs the first-half. Just like last week when McCarron was at the helm, the receivers were not getting any separation, often running into traffic. The TEs and RBs were trying to bloch and releasing late, giving nothing in the way check down options in time considering the paper-thin o-line. Oddly vanilla offense for the 1s each of the past two games now.

 

Of course it was vanilla. I'm not sure there was anything odd about it. I have a buddy who coaches and goes to all those seminars and ****. I can't remember who but he met an Arizona positional coach this summer, and they were talking preseason. He said the AZ coach told him that they only run about 4 plays the entire game on offense that are actually out of their play book.

[Green Lightning]

1 minute ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Who on this roster is good at this? 

Peterman? McCarron? Face it Allen is as good a QB as those guys today. 

-5 yard passing. Make any excuse you want. -5 yards passing. Not all his fault, far from it. But he's not ready to carry this sorry offense as of yet. Right now, Peterman is the better choice until Josh is ready.

[GoodHands15]

5 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I agree. Today wasn't on Allen. However, I did not need to see him take all of those hits and be let down by teammates. I'm not sure what anyone gets out of this 

Right, it’s a sense of pity vs not wanting to see him go

[Ol Dirty B]

3 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Who on this roster is good at this? 

Peterman? McCarron? Face it Allen is as good a QB as those guys today. 

 

I think he's a better QB when surrounded by talent. Those guys game are getting the ball out quick and short passing because they can't do anything else. Allen's skills require a little more time for plays to develop to utilize them. In my opinion. But I agree, with the offense they might have to run, those guys are better suited.

[Lfod]

I'm not going to hate on Josh Allen. I'm not going to make excuses for him either. People over hyped themselves and this game was a reality check. Giving a bunch of excuses isn't the answer.

 

One QB has started in preseason and looked good. Just one. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Lfod

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, scribo said:

I was at the game, focusing on the WRs, TEs and RBs the first-half. Just like last week when McCarron was at the helm, the receivers were not getting any separation, often running into traffic. The TEs and RBs were trying to bloch and releasing late, giving nothing in the way check down options in time considering the paper-thin o-line. Oddly vanilla offense for the 1s each of the past two games now.

 

This.  People are saying Allen needed to find his check-down guy.   They need to realize that the Achilles heel of having the TE and RB chip, is that if they don't release quickly the QB has no check down guy.

[scribo]

1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Of course it was vanilla. I'm not sure there was anything odd about it. I have a buddy who coaches and goes to all those seminars and ****. I can't remember who but he met an Arizona positional coach this summer, and they were talking preseason. He said the AZ coach told him that they only run about 4 plays the entire game on offense that are actually out of their play book.

The odd part was that today and last week the offense was very vanilla in the 1st half but not as much in the second half. I'm talking about less pre-snap movement, less motion. 

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, scribo said:

The odd part was that today and last week the offense was very vanilla in the 1st half but not as much in the second half. I'm talking about less pre-snap movement, less motion. 

 

Fair enough. I misunderstood you. I agree with that assessment. 

[baskingridgebillsfan]

who is hating ?  

[Augie]

I pray that Josh rests well tonight, with dreams of a clean pocket and open receivers. Some day soon, my son, we can make that happen. Please stay well until that time. 

 

Oh, and maybe an ice bath? 

[billieve420]

Been saying this since day 1 need to redshirt Josh Allen this year as there are too many unknowns on offense. New OC + playbook, question marks at o-line and WR = recipe for disaster for a rookie.

 

Josh Allen is your prized possession and every effort needs to be made to set him up for success long term. Peterman has played the best overall and has earned the right to start. 

 

Once the decision is made to start Allen the organization must be all in there can’t be any half or false starts if he struggles. It is much easier to turn to Allen later in the season if things spiral out of control vs benching Allen and putting in Peterman/McCarron.

Edited August 27, 2018 by billieve420

[Agent 91]

12 minutes ago, Lfod said:

I'm not going to hate on Josh Allen. I'm not going to make excuses for him either. People over hyped themselves and this game was a reality check. Giving a bunch of excuses isn't the answer.

 

One QB has started in preseason and looked good. Just one. 

And that was against a very good Panthers D. Last week the Browns looked like the 00 Ravens. It's definitely the line but a QB has to know when to hold it and when to fold it. Allen SHOULD get there but he hasn't yet

[Domdab99]

1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Anyone blaming Allen for getting emasculated play after play is clueless.

 

I don't think this is the word you were looking for

[Orlando Tim]

My short version is this: JA was pretty bad today and looked like a rookie who will need time but with that Line he has no chance to catch up to the speed of the NFL. Give him a chance when the line has improved. Also I truly think that NP will give us more wins THIS year.

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, Dr.Sack said:

My take exactly. This kid has the poise to stay in the pocket & take a beating like a man. Sadly he could set the rookie record for sacks behind this joke line. Derek Carr’s 80+ sacks record look out!

 

I had people calling me a moron a few weeks ago when I said this offensive line is hot garbage and is going to get somebody killed.

I'm kind of sad I was as right as I was.

It was a complete dumpster fire.

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Anybody remember Troy Aikman's rookie year? I think he was sacked like a hundred times and almost died. Everyone needs to just take a deep breath and relax. Josh Allen will be just fine and he showed a lot of poise today. Now Daboll and McDermott have to go to work and find a better combination of offensive lineman.

I wonder if Minnesota will give us all their picks for a RB too. I'm not sure we're going to build as fast or as strong as they did.