The Case for Peterman

[PlayoffsPlease]

This is the case for Peterman. 

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, The Process said:

That was my thought on the almost pick 6. My first thought was if that was Allen the ball would have gotten to the receiver a nano second earlier....CB was playing the ball....catch and run for 10 or more yards.  On the other hand, Peterman did see the blitz coming from the right on one play took a one step drop and hit the unattended TE for a nice completion. For that play my thought was ..... I wonder if Allen would have seen that. Conclusion: Allen can pick that stuff up, doubt Peterman can aquire Allen's arm.

 

I like Peterman, I know it sounds like I bash him often. I'd like him as a QB2 or QB3. I think he understands the game and has value in the QB room.

 

He has the brain and has shown a really nice rhythm. He just doesn't have the physical tools.  Daboll would have to craft a Chad Pennington style offense around him for him to be effective. Really good teams can defense that though.

 

Allen is raw but can make every throw. You can't defend some of the things he can do. We just have to be willing to take the good with the bad. I'd understand if AJM is out for a while, if the Bills start Peterman for 4 games or so. Reminds me of when Pederson started the first 4-5 games for the Eagles while McNabb caught up, and I think Allen has a more exciting skill set than McNabb.

 

If that is the case I don't want to see Peterman throwing long, or throwing out patterns. He just doesn't have it. A quick strike, short pass rhythm game is where Peterman can do best. He is not a long term answer though, IMO.

[SoCoBills]

Just now, PlayoffsPlease said:

This is the case for Peterman. 

 

Is there treasure inside? ?

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BmarvB said:

No way do you throw Allen in there behind that OL.

 

I think people overstate this argument. First of all there are very very few good offensive lines in the NFL. If we're waiting for a great offensive line before we start Allen, we'll be waiting years. More importantly the 2nd team offensive line wasn't any better. It LOOKED better because Allen is so quick with the ball and he's athletic. He can make throws under pressure that McCarron doesn't have a prayer of completing. And he can escape the pocket a lot better than McCarron and Peterman. Put him with the 1s and suddenly the offensive line will look decent. Like the TD he threw, that was poor pass protection. If McCarron is in on that play he would take that sack and you would be saying "can we trust Allen with the 2nd team o-line?"

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 minute ago, SoCoBills said:

 

Is there treasure inside? ?

Just a place to store his football gear. 

[BullBuchanan]

6 hours ago, Commonsense said:

We always hear, if you don’t start your best QB you are in danger of losing the team. McD needs to start Allen. There is no debate on who the better QB is. 

So shouldn't that be the guy with the most yards per attempt, completion percentage and touchdowns? Starting Allen ahead of Peterman at THIS point is giving him a handout. Make him earn the job by playing better.

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Um Peterman is a career 50% QB, where do you get this 85% nonsense?

 

Oh wait...I know...one drive against literally the most Vanilla D possible with no game plan, a scheme he will never once ever face in an actual game because it was the first preseason game of the season...combined with a quarter against scrubs who won’t be in the NFL in 2 weeks.  

 

Against real competition he’s sub 50% in regular and post season with 6 INTs and 3 Fumbles.  And he’s the only QB to turn the ball over this preseason and almost had another pick 6 on his first pass against scrubs yesterday.  

 

Yet you want to act like he’s some high percentage completion guy all of a sudden.  If he was capable of regularly doing what you say, he would have been leading this competition by a wide margin and AJM wouldn’t have even had a chance to start yesterday.  But you see, he is NOT dominating or consistent in practice either the way you describe him.  Instead you are over exaggerating SCRIMMAGE type scenarios as if it’s his normal output.

 

So why hasn’t the king sealed the job in practice if he’s so accurate like you say?

 

Against the exact same players Peterman is 85% and Allen is 56%. Peterman torched 1's, and Allen did pretty well too, but not as well. Peterman then destroyed the 3's and Allen struggled. It's public record - Peterman is 85% through the pre-season. Last season is in the past. Nate was also a 61% college passer,s o not sure where you get 50% from 

[BullBuchanan]

53 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

When will this myth die? There is a lot more to arm strength than throwing the ball deep. A good example is the pick six Peterman threw that the defender dropped. If Allen throws that ball it is a completion. Peterman can't throw those short outside hitches, Allen can hit then easily.

 

There's also a lot more to completing passes than Arm strength. You don't always have to play hero ball and fit a ball in a tight window to make a great play. If your scheme and your WRs arent complete trash, you should be able to make a good play without needing a cannon. Maybe you can't make "that" play, but lots of Hall of Fame QBS didn't have rocket launchers. I feel like the barometer for NFL arm has gotten thrown out of whack around here, because Allen has one of the strongest arms in he last 30 years, at least. You don't need that to complete passes and win football games.

Edited August 18, 2018 by BullBuchanan

[RochesterRob]

7 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

I like Peterman.

He’s a Team guy who you want in your locker room.

If you believe we have a legit shot to do something of meaning this year( deep run on the playoffs) you approach the season trying to get each win above all else.

If you believe you are a team that has a lot of holes or lacks depth at too many positions then you can get yourself into the mindset of starting your rookie QB.

Peterman is a backup. If we were able to draft our backup last year, and keep him on a cheap rookie deal, bully for us. 

Allen has “ IT”. He is also raw as heck. He also looks like a guy who you can’t “ ruin”. But, if you think Kelly had a rough introductory season in ‘86 you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

JA is going to do some STUPID rookie stuff. Bad picks, bad clock management, take unnecessary sacks and just generally look Rookie-ish. I can handle watching that knowing the dividends it will pay next year when we have the cap room and draft picks to surround him with better talent.

  People here are in denial that Allen will look like a typical rookie complete with mistakes while he grows.  

4 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

There's also a lot more to completing passes than Arm strength. You don't always have to play hero ball and fit a ball in a tight window to make a great play. If your scheme and your WRs arent complete trash, you should be able to make a good play without needing a cannon. Maybe you can't make "that" play, but lot's of Hall of Fame QBS didn't have rocket launchers. I feel like the barometer for NFL arm has gotten thrown out of whack around here, because Allen has one of the strongest arms in he last 30 years, at least. You don't need that to complete passes and win football games.

  Maybe Peterman does not want to take a chance on this but if I were McDermott I would be trying to get Peterman into the weight room to work on that.  

[Freddie's Dead]

Pickerman's first pass last night sealed it for me.  That should have been a pick 6, but the 3rd string CB couldn't pull it off.  A first string CB will.  Allen's ball is so fast that the CB won't have time to make the pick 6.  Allen should be the Bills starting QB against B'more.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

Neither does Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady or Carson Wentz so I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean...

 

 

 

No QB completes that percentage of passes....

 

Quick, look up!

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Pickerman's first pass last night sealed it for me.  That should have been a pick 6, but the 3rd string CB couldn't pull it off.  A first string CB will.  Allen's ball is so fast that the CB won't have time to make the pick 6.  Allen should be the Bills starting QB against B'more.

 

And Allen flinging the ball up in the air last week while getting tackled was every bit as bad. That was "almost a pick six" too. What's your point?

[Bangarang]

10 hours ago, QCity said:

The case for Peterman is watching that 1st team offensive line get completely manhandled. There's more QB injuries coming, that's for sure.

 

So with this logic Allen will end up starting anyway?

[BullBuchanan]

6 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Pickerman's first pass last night sealed it for me.  That should have been a pick 6, but the 3rd string CB couldn't pull it off.  A first string CB will.  Allen's ball is so fast that the CB won't have time to make the pick 6.  Allen should be the Bills starting QB against B'more.

 

False: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_int_career.htm

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

And Allen flinging the ball up in the air last week while getting tackled was every bit as bad. That was "almost a pick six" too. What's your point?

Allen did that on first down? I could of sworn it was 4th down.

[Boatdrinks]

I’m seeing less and less reason to start NP as the preseason goes on. He throws a very interceptable ball. It looks like he’s a capable backup at best. With the McCarron injury, the only deciding factor in this competition will be when, not IF Allen is ready. In the eyes of the coaches, that is. Any case for Peterman begins and ends with Allen. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Allen did that on first down? I could of sworn it was 4th down.

 

Oh, ok. So we're doing that now.

 

]

[Boca BIlls]

Peterman is a backup, nothing more 

[Freddie's Dead]

13 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

And Allen flinging the ball up in the air last week while getting tackled was every bit as bad. That was "almost a pick six" too. What's your point?

Allen is physically superior, and it's not even close.

[billsbackto81]

2 hours ago, BmarvB said:

Some people just won't let go of that one bad game. Even Jim Kelly had games he'd like to forget. Peterman got over it, put it behind him, and moved on. With McCarron hurt, he could very well be the week 1 starter. He's playing much better right now. No way do you throw Allen in there behind that OL.

 

I remember Jimbo throwing 3 picks in the first half of a MNF game against Cincy. Honestly the only throws that concern me about NP are the quick side line outs like some have mentioned. He just doesn't get it there as quick and elite and top DBs are gonna jump routes for INTs. He does pretty well other than that.

[reddogblitz]

8 hours ago, Estelle Getty said:

The reason why Peterman should be the backup is he has the tools of a backup

QB.  That 7 yard out that he constantly floats for the defenders to jumpmin front of is a great example of why he is not a starter in this league.

 

Please explain how this is a good tool for a backup.

 

If you're in the playoffs and he gets put him do you really need a guy that throws dying ducks like he did vs Jacksonville?  What good is that?

[Kelly the Dog]

I just watched the game again. Peterman was pretty awful. His first two series were brutal. He threw two good passes the entire half. And made a bunch of bad plays. The TD Steven Hauchska could have easily thrown. The first pass was a dropped pick six. He threw a dumb three yard completion on third and six when he had time. He threw a dumb pass when he was across the line going OB. He avoided the rush a couple times and still got sacked or tackled for short gain on both of them. He threw one nice sideline ball to Proehl but it was a 9 yard pass and he threw one nice pass that was a great catch by O'Leary we don't even know if it was a good pass (if he tried to throw it opposite shoulder and short on purpose it was very nice but it could also have just been a bad pass). 

 

He just wasnt good at all. 

[ericcomposer72]

I think they might start Peterman for the same reason they started him last year- to see what he's got (in this case, to see if what he's got is better than last season).

 

There's no risk to letting Allen sit at the beginning of the season. As people said, there's a chance they both may play equally poorly against a top NFL defense, for different reasons.

 

Honestly, I think if Peterman starts, he'll look exactly like he did when he started last season. People are saying "everyone has a bad game." But that's different when you have a respectable body of regular-season work. (Peterman looked good last preseason, too.)

 

It may be the same situation as Peterman's start last year, but instead of Tyrod coming in for the 2nd half, it will be Allen.

[JinxedBill1]

Peterman is our career back up to Allen for the next 5 years.  No business starting. 

[OldTimer1960]

I don't think many are arguing that Peterman is the long term answer.  My argument to start Peterman (now that McCarron is hurt) is:

1. Allen has impressed in limited appearances, but would benefit from more time learning

2. The OL is a weakness and is liable to get whomever plays QB injured

3. Allen has worked hard to improve his footwork to help with accuracy, but if he plays behind a weak OL facing a lot of pass rush, he is likely to regress in that footwork

4. The receiving group is a definite weakness that combined with the OL problems will make life very difficult for whomever plays QB this season.

 

Even if Allen's superior athletic traits seem to give the team a better chance today, I'd resist the temptation to hurry him into the lineup.

[Chris in Syracuse]

Peterman starts preseason game 3 and gets 4 to 5 possessions with the ones. Allen comes in and gets at least 3 possessions with the ones and plays the whole second half. If Peterman looks good he is your game 1 starter. If he looks bad and Josh looks good, Josh starts game one. If they both look bad start with Peterman for 4 games. If they are 0-4 welcome to the Josh Allen era.

[The Process]

1 hour ago, Boca BIlls said:

Peterman is a backup, nothing more 

What about his catalogue.....

[Mat68]

With Mcarron out Allen is the obvious choice.  Peterman is going throw ugly picks.  Allen might as well but he will also get you chunk plays.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

So shouldn't that be the guy with the most yards per attempt, completion percentage and touchdowns? Starting Allen ahead of Peterman at THIS point is giving him a handout. Make him earn the job by playing better.

 

Against the exact same players Peterman is 85% and Allen is 56%. Peterman torched 1's, and Allen did pretty well too, but not as well. Peterman then destroyed the 3's and Allen struggled. It's public record - Peterman is 85% through the pre-season. Last season is in the past. Nate was also a 61% college passer,s o not sure where you get 50% from 

 

I get 50% from his stat sheet.  He plays in THE  NFL, not college.

 

He did not torch anyone, he had ONE good drive agains a vanilla D with no game plan on the first series of the preseason. Then he turned the ball over very next drive.  Then his first pass should have been a pick six yesterday but it was droppped.  

 

And his TD yesterday was actually a bad pass that almost cost them the TD.  Nick could have crawled to the endzone had the ball been a good throw, but NP and his weak throw was slow and behind to the point Nick had to wait for the ball letting the defender that had been more than 10 yards away close and try and make a tackle.  Nick BROKE the tackle to save the TD.  

 

Did he make a few nice throws, sure, but he doesn’t do them regularly nor can he make all the throws.  But keep hanging your hat on one drive and a busted coverage play that was actually a bad pass that he got lucky Nick made a play to still get there score.  

1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I just watched the game again. Peterman was pretty awful. His first two series were brutal. He threw two good passes the entire half. And made a bunch of bad plays. The TD Steven Hauchska could have easily thrown. The first pass was a dropped pick six. He threw a dumb three yard completion on third and six when he had time. He threw a dumb pass when he was across the line going OB. He avoided the rush a couple times and still got sacked or tackled for short gain on both of them. He threw one nice sideline ball to Proehl but it was a 9 yard pass and he threw one nice pass that was a great catch by O'Leary we don't even know if it was a good pass (if he tried to throw it opposite shoulder and short on purpose it was very nice but it could also have just been a bad pass). 

 

He just wasnt good at all. 

 

Thankfully someone else actually WATCHED the game and not some stat box that didn’t remotely tell the story.  

 

Please start Allen next week and see if he can seal the deal.

[bobblehead]

50 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I don't think many are arguing that Peterman is the long term answer.  My argument to start Peterman (now that McCarron is hurt) is:

1. Allen has impressed in limited appearances, but would benefit from more time learning

2. The OL is a weakness and is liable to get whomever plays QB injured

3. Allen has worked hard to improve his footwork to help with accuracy, but if he plays behind a weak OL facing a lot of pass rush, he is likely to regress in that footwork

4. The receiving group is a definite weakness that combined with the OL problems will make life very difficult for whomever plays QB this season.

 

Even if Allen's superior athletic traits seem to give the team a better chance today, I'd resist the temptation to hurry him into the lineup.

I need Peterman to get his s$&t together and be capable of being the starter for at least the start of the season, 

 

A big component of Allen looking so good now is because he could watch and learn and screw up gradually throughout the off season. The regular season HAS TO be planned out the same way for Josh. It’s s critical time now and the Bills have to find a way to not f this up over AJ’s injury 

Edited August 18, 2018 by bobblehead

[Kelly the Dog]

The difference is, with Allen the Bills can score a TD on any given play from anywhere on the field. 

 

Same thing with Peterman, except it's the defense that has a chance to score on any given play from anywhere on the field. 

[Reed83HOF]

 

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Edited August 18, 2018 by Reed83HOF

[reddogblitz]

55 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

With Mcarron out Allen is the obvious choice.  Peterman is going throw ugly picks.  Allen might as well but he will also get you chunk plays.

 

We are now officially in the same position with Allen that we were with EJ.  No bidness starting, but what else we got?

 

Also I find it odd that Nasty Nate gets more penalties called on him than any other QB I've ever seen.

Edited August 18, 2018 by reddogblitz

[Mat68]

3 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

We are now officially in the same position with Allen that we were with EJ.  No bidness starting, but what else we got?

 

Also I find it odd that Nasty Nate gets more penalties called on him than any other QB I've ever seen.

I think Allen passed McCarron last night. The injury or no injury.  Allen looks like a starting Qb.

[mead107]

The Peterman Can 

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, Mat68 said:

I think Allen passed McCarron last night. The injury or no injury.  Allen looks like a starting Qb.

 

I'm starting to think Allen is the best now too. However I really don't want him to start right out of the chute.  But I don't trust Nasty Nate in a real game.

Edited August 19, 2018 by reddogblitz

[Formerly Allan in MD]

5 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Allen has impressed in limited appearances, but would benefit from more time learning

 

He'll learn much faster if he's playing.  He appears to have a knack for both.