Kaepernick's legal team to subpoena Trump in case against NFL

[klos63]

55 minutes ago, Bruce_Stools said:

I don’t understand how ANYBODY can’t grasp this.  Everything happened at the players’ place of employment. 

 

Case closed.

 

I guess people don’t need facts anymore. 

Using your brain is apparently no longer P.C.

I've mentioned this before. If my employees knelt down peacefully for 45 seconds(longer if Aretha Franklin singing) before work started, I wouldn't care. So you are not entirely correct.

[mannc]

26 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

 

 

I am a salesman, traveling from business to business.  For my job, I spend 99% of my job outside of the office.

My company still expects me to be on-time every day, gives me a dress code and tells me how to act while representing them.

If I don't live up to those standards, they have the right to fire me.

 

When you are employed, your boss makes the rules. 

 

 

Not if you are in a union.  The NFL players are in a union, so your analogy is incorrect.  And even non-union employers have limits on their rights to control employees' speech and behavior in the workplace. 

[BringBackOrton]

19 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

Then the owner has a lease that gives him exclusive use of the facility during the game.   No one has the right to demand a Columbus Day parade on the sideline either.

 

That's argument doesn't hold water.  What about the thousands of guys who were good enough to go to training camp?   The incremental difference between the 53d guy on a roster and any of them is tiny. 

 

So black guys being shot by cops is not as much of a problem if someone is paying Kapernick millions of dollars?   He's a real modern day Ali.

 

 

Once again, Kaepernick is free to protest all he likes, but his employer is fully within their rights to limit what happens on company time and on company property.   And no, the fact that one can play football does not mean he should be guaranteed a paying job doing so any more than an accountant should be guaranteed a job with the Big 4 firms just because he used to work at one of them.

Woah, the guy who said he wanted to make a "respectful statement" and then wore pig socks is full of it?  Who woulda thunk?

Edited June 7, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[Ittakestime]

Can Kaepernick just go away? 

[Bruce_Stools]

14 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I've mentioned this before. If my employees knelt down peacefully for 45 seconds(longer if Aretha Franklin singing) before work started, I wouldn't care. So you are not entirely correct.

I don’t even think this needs a response but you perhaps misread a previous statement.

 

While off the clock, be my guest to kneel during any event or at any time.   

 

Hell, do it at work and get fired for all I care. 

 

The players act like they’ve done nothing wrong because it’s a good cause to support.

 

Its a fact they have no rights to freedom of speech at work.

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Bruce_Stools said:

Its a fact they have no rights to freedom of speech at work

 

It's also a fact that the NFL is forbidden by the CBA to collude with each other in blacklisting a prospective employee. Why do you keep stating the NFL's rights as employers while ignoring Kaepernick's rights as a prospective employee?

[wppete]

29 minutes ago, mannc said:

Sorry, that's not how it works.  First of all, it's not a lawsuit.  It's a grievance/arbitration.  And Kaepernick brought the grievance only after the League (allegedly) blackballed him.  Kaepernick has a highly competent legal team and big companies with lots of money lose legal proceedings all the time.

 

If you were an owner would you hire him????? Do you think any of the owners will hire him????? I

[HappyDays]

30 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

But where is the evidence this happened?

 

The whole point of the subpoenas is to obtain evidence. All they have to prove is that at least 2 teams, or a team and the NFL executive office, colluded to stop Kaepernick from getting signed. It could be as simple as an email from one GM to another GM that says "Why did you bring Kaepernick in for a tryout? Don't you remember we have to all stick together?" And for anyone who says the NFL wouldn't be stupid enough to leave evidence like that, remember that the Bills were once fooled by a prank caller pretending to be the GM for Tampa Bay. There are 32 teams and the executive office, and only 2 of them had to screw up.

Edited June 7, 2018 by HappyDays

[thenorthremembers]

I've been wondering this for awhile now, and it was further peaked by Malcolm Jenkins "youre not listening" bit from this week.

 

Are these guys doing work in their communities to reverse the trend of African American Males being 8x more likely to commit homicide or illuminating the upward trend of single family homes in those same communities hovering on or above 66% over the last ten years? Or is their more important platform about police violence which in average is a less impactful, but still an important issue.

Edited June 7, 2018 by thenorthremembers

[mannc]

1 minute ago, wppete said:

 

If you were an owner would you hire him????? Do you think any of the owners will hire him????? I

That’s not the question.  The question is whether the owners made a secret agreement not to hire him, or whether teams were pressured by the league or by other owners not to sign him.  

[KOKBILLS]

Yawn...?

[Koko78]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

The NFL didn't discipline him.

 

Kaepernick actually opted out of his contract, so that he could become a Free Agent. 

The league didn't suspend him.  The league didn't fine him.  Owners just didn't want to sign him.

 

Again.  He has nobody to blame but himself. 

Even Hall of Fame players like Terrell Owens and Randy Moss eventually ran out of interested teams, because they were too big of a distraction/headache to compensate for their talent.  Kaepernick brings the baggage, but without the high level of play.  Nobody was going to deal with this kind of media frenzy for a backup QB.

 

 

This is exactly right. Kaeperdick is going nowhere in his lawsuit, unless they find some magic bullet email where all 32 teams talked about and agreed not to sign him. I should point out that it is completely irrelevant that the 49ers later said they were going to cut him if he didn't opt out of his contract, he still opted out.

 

As for subpoenaing Trump, good luck. That will get quashed rather quickly... then quiche.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Koko78

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Koko78 said:

 

This is exactly right. Kaeperdick is going nowhere in his lawsuit, unless they find some magic bullet email where all 32 teams talked about and agreed not to sign him.

 

As for subpoenaing Trump, good luck. That will get quashed rather quickly... then quiche.

It would just take two or more teams, not all 32. 

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, elroy16 said:

 

 

True, but you can't say that without acknowledging pro athletes are nothing like normal employees. We are easily replaceable, a top athlete in his prime isn't. 

Well apparently CK is since no one has signed him.

[elroy16]

5 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Well apparently CK is since no one has signed him.

 

 

I never said CK was a top athlete.

 

[BillsFan4]

2 hours ago, elroy16 said:

 

 

True, but you can't say that without acknowledging pro athletes are nothing like normal employees. We are easily replaceable, a top athlete in his prime isn't. 

This is true. 

 

Plus they are not standard employees like many regular Americans (especially those not part of a union). 

 

They are contracted and part of a union, and there are specific terms to the contracts they sign. Standing for the anthem wasn't in those terms (as far as I'm aware) or in the NFL's policies either. It is now, but it wasn't when all of this started. 

 

They all work for different owners, too, who all have differing policies. If the team owner (in this case Terry & Kim Pegula) was ok with them kneeling (like the Pegulas were), then who are we to say it's not ok for them to do at work? 

 

 

And thats the other big difference - us normal workers are not asked/mandated to stand for the pledge once a week, while it's broadcast on national TV for millions of viewers. 

We are not looked up to (as role models or otherwise) by 1000's and 1000's of fans, young and old. We don't have a platform to protest at work like these athletes do, to try and get our message out.

 

 

 

 

 

Union Protests do happen in workplaces too, though, albeit under a bit different circumstances... lol. 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by BillsFan4

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Sure but the NFL has a contract with their players which forbids collusion to deny employment. If you support the NFL's right to set and maintain their own anthem policy, surely you support Kaepernick's right to file suit when they breach their contract. Unless there's something else you're angry about?

 

You are making an assumption of guilt that there is collusion.

 

It's quite possible teams looked at the contract cost, analysis of return on investment and PR and decided independently that CK was not worth it.

That is not collusion or illegal. Unless you want to live in an autocratic planned economy, you can't force companies to hire people.

 

CK would have been smarter, not opting out, and had SF let him go then build a case.

 

But he didn't, he quit after going 1-10 in his last 11 starts and misread the market.

Wasn't expected to be in high demand when he walked.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18796373/colin-kaepernick-san-francisco-49ers-opts-contract

[Freddie's Dead]

It's not like the NFL hasn't colluded before.  They were found guilty of antitrust violations in the USFL case, but the brain-dead jury awarded $1 in treble damages, for $3 total.  Kaep has less than a 1% chance of winning this one, short of a videotape with two NFL owners or GM's on it saying "Let's agree to not offer Kaep a free agent contract".  Then it'll be a coin flip.

[The Wiz]

25 minutes ago, elroy16 said:

 

 

I never said CK was a top athlete.

 

I know you didn't.  My point was more that there are players on teams as back ups and 3rd stringers worse than him so he is replaceable.  Or at least replaceable enough to have someone on the team that will have a team mentality instead of a "me first" perspective on life.

[SmokinES3]

I hope he continues on with his suit. It's a winning issue for Trump. Please #resist as much as possible ya'll. Nothing to run on but hate... 

 

[mannc]

47 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Or at least replaceable enough to have someone on the team that will have a team mentality instead of a "me first" perspective on life.

How did Kaepernick’s protests evince a “me first” perspective on life?  Please explain.

[uticaclub]

4-20 as a starter in his last 24 games

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

.....thinking "Keeping Up With Kaepernick" may force "Keeping Up With The Kardashians" off the air......

[The Wiz]

45 minutes ago, mannc said:

How did Kaepernick’s protests evince a “me first” perspective on life?  Please explain.

Well no matter how I explain it you're probably going to punch holes in it but I'll try anyways. 

 

I understand and respect what he's protesting but he did it on the job.  If I did that, it's likely I'd be unemployed as well.

 

If he wants to protest that's fine by me, but he made himself a target for all the negative attention he's getting. 

 

Now going after the NFL and Trump is what I think is diminishing his actual protest and making it about how he can't get a job (in the NFL) because of what he did.  That's where he's making it about himself and not the actual protest.

 

I honestly don't give a **** about the politics of the matter regardless if it is Trump or some other blowhard in office.  My gripe is that he took something that was meant to be an escape from everyday bull **** and turned it into a political podium.

 

 

 

 

[bobobonators]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

It's not like the NFL hasn't colluded before.  They were found guilty of antitrust violations in the USFL case, but the brain-dead jury awarded $1 in treble damages, for $3 total.  Kaep has less than a 1% chance of winning this one, short of a videotape with two NFL owners or GM's on it saying "Let's agree to not offer Kaep a free agent contract".  Then it'll be a coin flip.

 

Antitrust laws are there mainly to protect the consumer from unfair business practices. 

 

Kaep’s situation has nothing to do with antitrust laws. 

 

Kaep’s grievance was under the collective bargaining agreement with NFL. I dont know what the language is in that agreement but i guess it doesnt allow for collusion? I dont know. 

 

In the real world, with no CBA, a private corporation can blackball someone all day, any day if they feel that person is bad for business (as long as no constitutional rights are being violated i.e., not hiring bc of race). 

 

Kaep in his grievance claims:  "If the NFL (as well as all professional sports teams) is to remain a meritocracy, then principled and peaceful protest -- which the owners themselves made great theater imitating weeks ago -- should not be punished and athletes should not be denied employment based on partisan political provocation by the Executive Branch of our government...”

 

If that’s Kaep’s central claim he’s going to have a hard time with this grievance. The language “should” not be punished is different than “cannot” be punished. Kaep has no constitutional protection to peacefully protest while hes at work.

 

The NFL is a private business entity that ultimately exists not on meritocracy, but rather with revenue. Revenue sharing is an actual thing among teams in the NFL. So logically, teams have every right to discuss matters that are deemed a threat to their bottom line. Kaep’s stance threatened their bottom line. As a private entity, they have the right to address whether that employee is an asset or a liability, and they clearly chose the latter. 

 

Kaep’s constitutional rights werent violated either since 1st amendment protection doesnt really apply at the workplace. Protest on your own time, Kaep. Thats what you should have done. Instead, you tried to be cute and you lost. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by bobobonators

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

There's a long line of citizens who wish to depose Trump. 

 

Kaeperniok's is the only really bogus request.  Who on earth is NOT currently familiar with Trump's policy towards the anthem protest?  And why would it matter what he said to various owners regarding his feelings on this?

 

This ultimately is a futile exercise for Kaep and his dream team.

You said " trumpsters policy "
 we have some questions for you.
 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Rubes said:

 

Not trying to be a troll, but honest question: what if the stadium/place of employment belongs to the city/county, and not the owner?

 

 

Been raised and answered in two other threads.  Stadium/locker facilities leased to the team and within team's control under terms of the lease.

Same thing as if your business leases the building it's operating from.

 

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

But where is the evidence this happened?

Do you really think the NFL owners called around and told each other - "Hey, let's show that Kaepernick guy and make sure none of us sign him!"

There are thousands of other NFL players who kneeled for the anthem and still have jobs. 

 

Like I said.  In terms of other NFL Quarterbacks, Kaepernick had played himself into a backup role (at best).  His decision/actions caused a ruckus across the country, and enraged thousands of fans.  Nobody was going to deal with that headache for a guy holding a clipboard. 

 

Nobody forced Kaepernick to kneel.  Nobody forced Kaepernick to make his statement about "refusing to respect" this country.  Those were his own decisions, and he should take the consequences like a man.  But instead, he's choosing to play the victim.

 

 

 

[Paul Costa]

The rumor is there is a whistleblower inside the NFL that’s going to blow the top off of this. If that happens all bets are off. I’m going to wait to see what comes out before making an opinion. That sounds crazy right ?

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

Well no matter how I explain it you're probably going to punch holes in it but I'll try anyways. 

 

I understand and respect what he's protesting but he did it on the job.  If I did that, it's likely I'd be unemployed as well.

 

If he wants to protest that's fine by me, but he made himself a target for all the negative attention he's getting. 

 

Now going after the NFL and Trump is what I think is diminishing his actual protest and making it about how he can't get a job (in the NFL) because of what he did.  That's where he's making it about himself and not the actual protest.

 

I honestly don't give a **** about the politics of the matter regardless if it is Trump or some other blowhard in office.  My gripe is that he took something that was meant to be an escape from everyday bull **** and turned it into a political podium.

 

 

 

 

thanks for writing your thinking on this for us me especially. I don't think agree with you on this , but we agree on other matters. Good honest post and much appreciated

Edited June 8, 2018 by 3rdand12

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

It would just take two or more teams, not all 32. 

 

OK, you got me drawn in here.  I did not know that, can you explain or give more background? 

[Golden Goat]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

I honestly don't give a **** about the politics of the matter regardless if it is Trump or some other blowhard in office.  My gripe is that he took something that was meant to be an escape from everyday bull **** and turned it into a political podium.

 

If I could upvote this 100 times, I would. Hit the nail on the head.

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK, you got me drawn in here.  I did not know that, can you explain or give more background? 

Just the simple definition of collusion requiring two or more parties to be in agreement. 

[3rdand12]

24 minutes ago, Paul Costa said:

The rumor is there is a whistleblower inside the NFL that’s going to blow the top off of this. If that happens all bets are off. I’m going to wait to see what comes out before making an opinion. That sounds crazy right ?

bat sheets crazy.

what started out as simple yet effective protest has turned into this.

These Days and Times are quite something aren't they
 

[Wily Dog]

 

Trump mettled into the NFL  business to cover for his " other " problems . He doesn''t give a rats a## about the standing for the flag or kneeling . He was a "bone spur 4 fe in the Vietnam  War" . Every time he gets his tit in a wringer he creates a diversion and makes it a cause celebrae to get the peoples mind off of him. Too bad that there are so many people who haven't figured it out and too bad that they never will.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

7 hours ago, wppete said:

I cant see how kaepernick can win this law suit. Billionaire owners and a league full of the top lawyers in the USA. 

 

If you were an owner of a business would you hire someone who is suing you and your business partners????

Yeah.  I see your point.  We will just elect him president.  A chronic lawsuit happy person that is.  It's good enough for the American people!  Hire him!

1 minute ago, Wily Dog said:

 

Trump mettled into the NFL  business to cover for his " other " problems . He doesn''t give a rats a## about the standing for the flag or kneeling . He was a "bone spur 4 fe in the Vietnam  War" . Every time he gets his tit in a wringer he creates a diversion and makes it a cause celebrae to get the peoples mind off of him. Too bad that there are so many people who haven't figured it out and too bad that they never will.  

Take them to court... Obfuscate things! It's his MO.  Tie up legal system.

[Dr.Sack]

6 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

I thought Trump and the NFL have some bad blood. If they depose Trump, he really could stick it to the owners who blocked him over 30 years ago. Trump has a long memory for those who cross him. 

He’s still mad Pegula outbid him by 400 million.

[keepthefaith]

22 minutes ago, Wily Dog said:

 

Trump mettled into the NFL  business to cover for his " other " problems . He doesn''t give a rats a## about the standing for the flag or kneeling . He was a "bone spur 4 fe in the Vietnam  War" . Every time he gets his tit in a wringer he creates a diversion and makes it a cause celebrae to get the peoples mind off of him. Too bad that there are so many people who haven't figured it out and too bad that they never will.  

To put this in baseball terms, you are way out in left field on this. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

15 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

He’s still mad Pegula outbid him by 400 million.

He didn't have 400 million more.

[Wily Dog]

1 minute ago, keepthefaith said:

To put this in baseball terms, you are way out in left field on this. 

 

 

You sir, are in the never will contingent