Could a plant-based diet turn things around for Charles Clay?

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Commonsense said:

Cook the chicken in extra virgin olive oil, add one package of frozen spinach, mushrooms, garlic, pepper, Italian seasoning. All in one big pan on the stove. 

 

In in another pan boil your rice, in the third pan goes the water for the broccoli.

 

Combine all 3 in a big plastic bowl, mix, eat for a week. Yum.

I am a bit lazy but working on it

 

This past week I bought a few pounds of already prepared chicken fajitas (already prepared with all the veggies in it and seasoned.....large bags of broccoli and carrots go for 1.50 each and make for a huge portion of veggies on the plate.

 

Fry up the fajitas with pam in the skillet......a little cheese sauce on the veggies......throw everything on a plate.....and devour after my gym time (making sure to not eat after 9:00 PM)

 

That has been my routine recently.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

In my simple mind I always thought the broccoli was so I can poop

 

It is plus it has many anticancer properties in it, a very healthy food but not a good source of protein,carbs or fat, you certainly can't live off it.

 

Did you check out that article I sent ya.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Buffalo Barbarian

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

It is plus it has many anticancer properties in it, a very healthy food but not a good source of protein,carbs or fat, you certainly can't live off it.

 

Did you check out that article I went ya.

 

 

going through it now

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

going through it now

 

Good, I hope you like it.

 

If that isn't for you, Paleo is another good option.

 

 

[CommonCents]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I am a bit lazy but working on it

 

This past week I bought a few pounds of already prepared chicken fajitas (already prepared with all the veggies in it and seasoned.....large bags of broccoli and carrots go for 1.50 each and make for a huge portion of veggies on the plate.

 

Fry up the fajitas with pam in the skillet......a little cheese sauce on the veggies......throw everything on a plate.....and devour after my gym time (making sure to not eat after 9:00 PM)

 

That has been my routine recently.

 

 

Give it a try, it’s pretty easier and has helped with my workouts. I’m sure some of these guys will say how it’s not a perfectly healthy combo but I have trimmed up quite a bit and this was a big change.

 

Cutting up the chicken is the only thing that takes any time, you can prep all the other stuff while cooking the chicken mixture. 30-40 minutes and you have a batch for a solid 4-5 days. 

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

It's funny watching people debate veganism against ketogenic, both work if you follow the program correctly. It comes down to this: If you go high carbs, you must go low fat. If you go high fat, you must go low carbs.

 

It's that simple.

its actually even much more simple than that... its calories in vs calories out. PERIOD. 

 

you are correct though. most any nutrition protocol will work when given any consistency.

 

now don't get me wrong. macro's can become much more complicated than that depending on performance goals. But as a fitness professional that is consistently having to keep up with the latest nutritional studies and health journals in order to keep all my clients(young athletes through senior citizens) trending in the right direction, I am getting a chuckle out of some of this stuff today.

 

I'm gonna go ahead and say people still terrified of eggs and red meat need to hop on back to the 90's and that's about all i'll say on this whole subject. Fitness/nutrition is a special field where very few people know anything but everyone thinks they know EVERYTHING. Science is finally catching up with the fitness/nutrition field and I can promise you if its proving anything its that there is no ONE way to get it done.

 

i'm gonna go back to lurking now.... there's just way too much to cover in this.

[Victory Formation]

5 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

its actually even much more simple than that... its calories in vs calories out. PERIOD. 

 

you are correct though. most any nutrition protocol will work when given any consistency.

 

now don't get me wrong. macro's can become much more complicated than that depending on performance goals. But as a fitness professional that is consistently having to keep up with the latest nutritional studies and health journals in order to keep all my clients(young athletes through senior citizens) trending in the right direction, I am getting a chuckle out of some of this stuff today.

 

I'm gonna go ahead and say people still terrified of eggs and red meat need to hop on back to the 90's and that's about all i'll say on this whole subject. Fitness/nutrition is a special field where very few people know anything but everyone thinks they know EVERYTHING. Science is finally catching up with the fitness/nutrition field and I can promise you if its proving anything its that there is no ONE way to get it done.

 

i'm gonna go back to lurking now.... there's just way too much to cover in this.

I will also say this about keto, your body will break down the macronutrients into the micronutrients your body needs and I acknowledge that keto works but it's immoral to me. Eating 2-3 chickens a day makes me feel guilty but eating 2-3 chickens a week is a nice common ground for me. Once again, if 90% of my diet comes from plants I feel better about that.

[PirateHookerMD]

Im stunned to see such an engaged and educated discussion about this on a Bills fan site. Impressed. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

its actually even much more simple than that... its calories in vs calories out. PERIOD. 

 

you are correct though. most any nutrition protocol will work when given any consistency.

 

now don't get me wrong. macro's can become much more complicated than that depending on performance goals. But as a fitness professional that is consistently having to keep up with the latest nutritional studies and health journals in order to keep all my clients(young athletes through senior citizens) trending in the right direction, I am getting a chuckle out of some of this stuff today.

 

I'm gonna go ahead and say people still terrified of eggs and red meat need to hop on back to the 90's and that's about all i'll say on this whole subject. Fitness/nutrition is a special field where very few people know anything but everyone thinks they know EVERYTHING. Science is finally catching up with the fitness/nutrition field and I can promise you if its proving anything its that there is no ONE way to get it done.

 

i'm gonna go back to lurking now.... there's just way too much to cover in this.

Soooo eggs are ok?  My market havin a sale and I was gonna load up.

 

Love to hard boil them and eat them with my no salt

[Stank_Nasty]

40 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Soooo eggs are ok?  My market havin a sale and I was gonna load up.

 

Love to hard boil them and eat them with my no salt

whole eggs are extremely nutrient dense, however, they are also one of the most calorie dense so you need to be aware of how much you are putting in your body. whole eggs, taken within a healthy caloric daily limit, are more than ok for you. I would argue more beneficial than detrimental. Also saturated fats from most meats are not the enemy the 80's and 90's made them out to be. they have plenty of benefits. BUT like most anything else, people eat them in excess and so they have gotten a horrible rep. 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[atlbillsfan1975]

On 5/29/2018 at 8:47 AM, bobobonators said:

Clay complaining that being Vegan is too expensive. ??‍♂️

 

Someone please hold my beer while i handle this. 

That was the one part of the article that made me have a ‘come on man’ moment. All of us need to be aware of what and how we eat. An athlete is basically investing in their business when they eat right and take care of themselves. If he spends $50,000 a year on groceries, he is still winning on a return from his investment. 

I want Charles Big Play Clay ready to roll. Eat right and stay healthy big fella. When Clay is involved in the offense good things happen.

[Avisan]

22 hours ago, PirateHookerMD said:

 

yea I don't think hardcore vegan is for most people

 

https://www.forksoverknives.com/the-myth-of-complementary-protein/#gs.urMnkio

This article is terrible and the entire thing literally only cites links back to its own website while complaining about actual scientists (correctly) identifying that most plant proteins are incomplete.

 

Notice the overly general language he couches his assertions in-- the typical calorie-sufficient vegetarian diet is amino-acid sufficient.  This is accurate, because the typical calorie-sufficient vegetarian diet contains enough different protein sources to cover all the bases.  But that has nothing to do with the protein contents of individual plant sources.

 

The idea of needing to eat complimentary proteins together at the same time is flawed and inaccurate, which is the only valid factual assertion directly related to the topic that he makes, but that again doesn't actually directly relate to the completeness of individual plant proteins.

 

Do yourself a favor and stay away from this dude and his glorified blog.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Avisan

[3rdand12]

On 5/29/2018 at 2:47 PM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

No, high levels of collagen are needed for joint health and is why bone broth is all the rage.

 

Also red meat is not unhealthy, this myth needs to die. Grass fed beef is one of the best foods one can eat and has way more nutrients than chicken and fish.

 

 

 

as with both meat and Vegetables , if they are absorbing the clean nutrients , so you will be too.

 

So many foods we consume are the source of inflammation. Which is the source of our bodies deterioration.
Eating smarter is something we should all strive for. keeping the body and mind healthy should be a life's work. 
As we learn more we can improve our diet and exercise for each of us in particular.

 

 and as mentioned , if he just stopped refined sugar? he would be making great strides on long term gains in regard to health : )
 

3 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

I will also say this about keto, your body will break down the macronutrients into the micronutrients your body needs and I acknowledge that keto works but it's immoral to me. Eating 2-3 chickens a day makes me feel guilty but eating 2-3 chickens a week is a nice common ground for me. Once again, if 90% of my diet comes from plants I feel better about that.

finding your personal balance is key. Being comfortable and yet diligent

I have met some of the meats i eat.

 We have some great small Farms around here !

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Soooo eggs are ok?  My market havin a sale and I was gonna load up.

 

Love to hard boil them and eat them with my no salt

know what they are eating. you might find those that eat nifty stuff like bugs while they wander about , taste gooder.

 I have a fantastic woman from old country who grow everything naturally including her Hens. Their Eggs are on another level. 

[PirateHookerMD]

54 minutes ago, Avisan said:

This article is terrible and the entire thing literally only cites links back to its own website while complaining about actual scientists (correctly) identifying that most plant proteins are incomplete.

 

Notice the overly general language he couches his assertions in-- the typical calorie-sufficient vegetarian diet is amino-acid sufficient.  This is accurate, because the typical calorie-sufficient vegetarian diet contains enough different protein sources to cover all the bases.  But that has nothing to do with the protein contents of individual plant sources.

 

The idea of needing to eat complimentary proteins together at the same time is flawed and inaccurate, which is the only valid factual assertion directly related to the topic that he makes, but that again doesn't actually directly relate to the completeness of individual plant proteins.

 

Do yourself a favor and stay away from this dude and his glorified blog.

 

"Plant protein can meet protein requirements when a variety of plant foods is consumed and energy needs are met. Research indicates that an assortment of plant foods eaten over the course of a day can provide all essential amino acids and ensure adequate nitrogen retention and use in healthy adults"

 

https://www.vrg.org/nutrition/2009_ADA_position_paper.pdf

[Victory Formation]

10 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

 finding your personal balance is key. Being comfortable and yet diligent

I have met some of the meats i eat.

 We have some great small Farms around here !

One of my favorite meals is garlic chicken breast cubed and fried in olive oil, I do that one 5-6 times a month. Probably wouldn't be so bad if I baked it but frying it tastes so much better. I eat between 5-8 eggs everyday though, cheap quick protein.

2 minutes ago, PirateHookerMD said:

 

"Plant protein can meet protein requirements when a variety of plant foods is consumed and energy needs are met. Research indicates that an assortment of plant foods eaten over the course of a day can provide all essential amino acids and ensure adequate nitrogen retention and use in healthy adults"

 

https://www.vrg.org/nutrition/2009_ADA_position_paper.pdf

That's true.

[3rdand12]

4 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

One of my favorite meals is garlic chicken breast cubed and fried in olive oil, I do that one 5-6 times a month. Probably wouldn't be so bad if I baked it but frying it tastes so much better. I eat between 5-8 eggs everyday though, cheap quick protein.

That's true.

One of my Daughters is a nutritionist among her other skills sets. Her business is now focused upon individuals. Women specifically. health exercise diet spirit via Yoga and meditations.

 Her go to at meal times are eggs. always offering to scramble some up. Mostly vegan and mostly clean eating.
Been a positive influence on my health.
 

 Ps Always a treat to find so many knowledgeable folks here. no matter what the subject ☺️

 

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, klos63 said:

they are also a cause of high cholesterol which can lead to heart disease. So it's better to get your protein without the heart disease risk.

 

It is easy enough just to eat the white part of egg and get your protein.  My wife makes me eggs that way.

[Avisan]

1 hour ago, PirateHookerMD said:

 

"Plant protein can meet protein requirements when a variety of plant foods is consumed and energy needs are met. Research indicates that an assortment of plant foods eaten over the course of a day can provide all essential amino acids and ensure adequate nitrogen retention and use in healthy adults"

 

https://www.vrg.org/nutrition/2009_ADA_position_paper.pdf

Correct, this is not nor was ever in contention, and I explicitly mention it as true in my post.

[Lfod]

Probably save a lot of money by getting a chicken and growing my own garden. I've always had a desire to get off the grid as much as I could. Never did take the plunge. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Lfod

[The Frankish Reich]

On 5/29/2018 at 10:05 AM, MJS said:

 

Fresh produce is cheap. There are some things that are expensive, but the most common produce that people eat are cheap (potatoes, apples, bananas, carrots, celery, lettuce -- all cheap).

 

I'm not vegan, but my family and I eat only a little meat and use mostly fresh produce, along with grains, legumes, etc. We eat very cheaply compared to most people.

 

I guess if you are trying to have fake meat and dairy and already prepared vegan meals things can get expensive.

The Beyond Meat burger is actually kind of o.k. Texture's good, a little bit of an aftertaste, but handles the toppings well. About 3 bucks each.

My wife suddenly started talking about avoiding "nightshades" because they cause inflammation. I interrogated her for a good 20 minutes, suspecting that this was the TB 12 system. She showed my the book, by some Dr. Gundry. Divorce averted.

[MJS]

35 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The Beyond Meat burger is actually kind of o.k. Texture's good, a little bit of an aftertaste, but handles the toppings well. About 3 bucks each.

My wife suddenly started talking about avoiding "nightshades" because they cause inflammation. I interrogated her for a good 20 minutes, suspecting that this was the TB 12 system. She showed my the book, by some Dr. Gundry. Divorce averted.

 

Nightshades, from what I have read, actually do cause inflammation, but causes a response in the body that counteracts that. The end result is a decrease in inflammation because the body overcompensates. Something like that.

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

 

Nightshades, from what I have read, actually do cause inflammation, but causes a response in the body that counteracts that. The end result is a decrease in inflammation because the body overcompensates. Something like that.

Thank you. I am not about to pull my newly-planted tomatoes out of the garden.

[Victory Formation]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The Beyond Meat burger is actually kind of o.k. Texture's good, a little bit of an aftertaste, but handles the toppings well. About 3 bucks each.

My wife suddenly started talking about avoiding "nightshades" because they cause inflammation. I interrogated her for a good 20 minutes, suspecting that this was the TB 12 system. She showed my the book, by some Dr. Gundry. Divorce averted.

Dr. Gundry is full of it. He believes in fecal matter transplants as bizarre as that sounds, he said if you transplant waste from a healthy person's colon and transplant it into an unhealthy person's colon they'll lose weight. You pretty much can't eat anything according to his plan, it's like a starvation diet.

[The Frankish Reich]

35 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Dr. Gundry is full of it. He believes in fecal matter transplants as bizarre as that sounds, he said if you transplant waste from a healthy person's colon and transplant it into an unhealthy person's colon they'll lose weight. You pretty much can't eat anything according to his plan, it's like a starvation diet.

And remarkably like the TB 12 crackpot theories!  I looked at it - not really starvation, but pretty much a recycled Dr. Atkins/Paleo low carb thing with some added claptrap about inflammatory responses. Good news: my wife tired of it in about a week, well before the fecal transplant (!) stage ...

[Pete]

On 5/29/2018 at 12:05 PM, MJS said:

 

Fresh produce is cheap. There are some things that are expensive, but the most common produce that people eat are cheap (potatoes, apples, bananas, carrots, celery, lettuce -- all cheap).

 

I'm not vegan, but my family and I eat only a little meat and use mostly fresh produce, along with grains, legumes, etc. We eat very cheaply compared to most people.

 

I guess if you are trying to have fake meat and dairy and already prepared vegan meals things can get expensive.

exactly,  I get 3 bananas for $1 at cumbys.  broccoli crowns $2 a #.  Blackbeans 1# bag $1.   Organic Milk $6 gallon organic oats $2#.  Organic brown rice $2#.  what the hell is that guy eating that is so expensive?

[Fadingpain]

I believe most NFL players already have a steady plant based diet.

 

The plant looks like this:

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

as with both meat and Vegetables , if they are absorbing the clean nutrients , so you will be too.

 

So many foods we consume are the source of inflammation. Which is the source of our bodies deterioration.
Eating smarter is something we should all strive for. keeping the body and mind healthy should be a life's work. 
As we learn more we can improve our diet and exercise for each of us in particular.

 

 and as mentioned , if he just stopped refined sugar? he would be making great strides on long term gains in regard to health : )
 

finding your personal balance is key. Being comfortable and yet diligent

I have met some of the meats i eat.

 We have some great small Farms around here !

know what they are eating. you might find those that eat nifty stuff like bugs while they wander about , taste gooder.

 I have a fantastic woman from old country who grow everything naturally including her Hens. Their Eggs are on another level. 

 

Agreed, sugar is poison and inflammation are wreaking havoc on our health.  Going organic as possible is the way to go. It's pretty obvious that before all these chemicals were used to grow food that cancer and other diseases were almost unheard of.

 

 

[MAJBobby]

Went plant based a year ago to deal with all my inj and such that have sprouted up over the last 18 years of military and multiple deployments. I must say i feel great. 

 

Now that being said i am not a professional athlete. 

 

Well that and no sugar and GMOs too

Edited May 31, 2018 by MAJBobby

[nedboy7]

Most new research into high performance athletics and training shows vegan diets are better.  I’m not vegan but I eat little meat. Many good reasons to eat less meat.  The meat industry is mentally ill for the most part. 

[keepthefaith]

Lots of interesting opinions here.  Nutrition is still a science not fully understood and nutritionists often disagree.  More info is always coming forth though and those that are disciplined in their diets can definitely improve their long term health.  We all have just 1 body and many of us need to take better care of it. 

[purple haze]

On 5/29/2018 at 5:47 AM, bobobonators said:

Clay complaining that being Vegan is too expensive. ??‍♂️

 

Someone please hold my beer while i handle this. 

He didn't say he couldn't afford it, just that it's expensive.  I can see that; it costs more to eat well in general.  Now even the healthy produce seems pumped with chemicals.  The organic produce looks like what normal produce used to look like back in the day.   But organic costs more.  Unless one has access to a farmers market.

 

Americans have many health issues based on diet and a lot of that is based, in part, on economics.

[Sky Diver]

Shaq said that he reshaped his body and is down to 17% body fat and is shooting for 15%. I'm surprised that it's that high. Is that normal? When I was really fit I was down to 9%. I think Bruce was single digit too.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

Shaq said that he reshaped his body and is down to 17% body fat and is shooting for 15%. I'm surprised that it's that high. Is that normal? When I was really fit I was down to 9%. I think Bruce was single digit too.

 

I thought this was a very interesting article (scroll down for NFL data- the top is just how to measure body fat likely you know already)

It suggests that 19% would be typical for a DLman, and 13.5% for a LB.  Now that's at the combine, so would predict NFL professionals would gain some muscle and lose some fat.

 

Anyway, Lawson may be "typical" for a DLman at 17%, but I'm going to guess that pass-rushing DE are closer to LB and "Big Stuff" DT are closer to OLmen.

 

Bruce Smith during his peak as a player was reported to be 6.2% body fat.

[BillsFanNC]

 

against my better judgment I'm going to dive in here...

 

First let me say that every diet under the sun that you can google...keto, south beach, atkins, paleo, whole food plant based, cutting off you arm etc....will all work to help you lose weight if you adhere to them.  However, the real question should be what is the most sustainable option that also promotes long term health.  The conclusion I came to after extensively reviewing the literature (the actual peer reviewed studies published in journals, not blogs or cnn articles) led me to the the overwhelming evidence that a whole food plant based diet is the best option.

 

To say I came to this conclusion kicking and screaming would be an understatement.  I was a bbq nerd with three grills and multiple bbq gadgets. I loved cooking ribs, wings, brisket, pork butt etc. multiple times a week, but as a scientist I simply couldn't ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence.  So in January I went off the standard american diet onto a whole food plant based diet....I'm down 40 lbs, my cholesterol went from 215 to 112, my blood pressure which was borderline hypertensive is now 115/75.  I did this all by changing my diet with no drugs and I don't miss meat, dairy or eggs at all.  

 

Nutritionfacts.org is a great resource if you want to dip your toe into the literature. Dr. Greger produces short videos on nearly every nutritional topic based on the latest peer reviewed research.  He cites all the papers that he highlights so you can go read them for yourself like I did.  The best video to start with is the story of his grandma, why he went into medicine and a ground breaking study published in JAMA on how our number one killer, heart disease, can be cured by adopting these dietary changes.

 

Cornell nutritional biochemist T. Colin Campbell's book The China Study is also a great resource.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by BillsFanNC

[BillsFan130]

On 6/1/2018 at 8:35 AM, Sky Diver said:

Shaq said that he reshaped his body and is down to 17% body fat and is shooting for 15%. I'm surprised that it's that high. Is that normal? When I was really fit I was down to 9%. I think Bruce was single digit too.

I think 17 is slightly high for Shaq, but at the same time these guys need to eat a lot of food to maintain a heavier weight.

 

If he weighed  like 185- 200 pounds, then that would be a different story.

 

 

[3rdand12]

On 6/1/2018 at 2:06 AM, purple haze said:

He didn't say he couldn't afford it, just that it's expensive.  I can see that; it costs more to eat well in general.  Now even the healthy produce seems pumped with chemicals.  The organic produce looks like what normal produce used to look like back in the day.   But organic costs more.  Unless one has access to a farmers market.

 

Americans have many health issues based on diet and a lot of that is based, in part, on economics.

This is true. all of it. access is part of it as well. Along with knowledge.

46 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

And cholesterol...

and you know there are good and bad cholesterols of course. and certainly are good fats and fatty acids ?
Hard to decipher what we are told is good and bad for most folks i expect.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 6/1/2018 at 8:35 AM, Sky Diver said:

Shaq said that he reshaped his body and is down to 17% body fat and is shooting for 15%. I'm surprised that it's that high. Is that normal? When I was really fit I was down to 9%. I think Bruce was single digit too.

 

...I remember USC RB Charles White played in the NFL with a ridiculous 3% body fat.......career was 8 years and 108 games........far too lean......not sure what the right percentage is though...

[CommonCents]

11 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

This is true. all of it. access is part of it as well. Along with knowledge.

and you know there are good and bad cholesterols of course. and certainly are good fats and fatty acids ?
Hard to decipher what we are told is good and bad for most folks i expect.

Eggs are high in cholesterol but they effect your blood differently than other types of fats. Supposedly. Some of this stuff always seems like it’s changing. 

[3rdand12]

6 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Eggs are high in cholesterol but they effect your blood differently than other types of fats. Supposedly. Some of this stuff always seems like it’s changing. 

And combinations of food stuffs are more effective in creating a healthy system.

 We learn more all the time, if you are willing to deep dive.
and once you recognise personal health issues can be improved with just diet and exercise ? You control your own fate to some degree.

Clay is doing just that. 

 situational awareness !

 Daboll is likely teaching the Team that concept along with reading the opponent and winning your matchups.  ☺️

15 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...I remember USC RB Charles White played in the NFL with a ridiculous 3% body fat.......career was 8 years and 108 games........far too lean......not sure what the right percentage is though...

likely need to find what works for you over time ?

[BillsFanNC]

28 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

This is true. all of it. access is part of it as well. Along with knowledge.

and you know there are good and bad cholesterols of course. and certainly are good fats and fatty acids ?
Hard to decipher what we are told is good and bad for most folks i expect.