WOW is our OL ever in shambles

[Bakin]

Lost 3 starters in 2 months. 

Devastating. 

 

How exactly is our new Franchise QB going to stay alive, especially after we give away all our picks as some are primed to do?

 

 

 

[teef]

Why?  What happened?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, teef said:

Why?  What happened?

 

 We must have missed some news today. 

[Elite Poster]

Honestly, I'm glad he's gone. Today proved he was just putting on an act.

[RFL]

He says its health reasons.....no reason to doubt him.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 minutes ago, Bakin said:

Lost 3 starters in 2 months. 

Devastating. 

 

How exactly is our new Franchise QB going to stay alive, especially after we give away all our picks as some are primed to do?

 

 

 

 

I’m usually not compliany pants, and Glenn is replaced already, but Wood and Ritchie’s departure do suck, most of all for them as I’m pretty sure they were not only good enough but still very much invested in continuing their career 

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

We need four  good linemen. Dawkins and four below average at best right now Shambles is a good word for it

 

 

 

Quote

 

[snamsnoops]

Maybe Richie had too much cake? Give him some time he may change his mind. Do the bills want him back now though?

 

At first this was a little shocking but Wood I didnt feel was that great a loss. Gordy hasnt really played and Dawkins looks fine. Richie was still a beast but we had to get younger. G\C's can be found from day 2 on.

Edited April 10, 2018 by snamsnoops

[thurst44]

6 minutes ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

We need four  good linemen. Dawkins and four below average at best right now Shambles is a good word for it

 

 

 

Y'know, I was very much not a fan of the Ducasse signing (it's rare i rail against a player, but i railed against him), but he played perfectly fine last year. I know PFF is not the be all and end all, but...

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/vladimir-ducasse/5586

 

There was a lot of clamor here for Groy to start but now that he might be the starter, he clearly sucks. Miller played well in his second season and is young, so the jury's out. Bodine played well in 2016 like Miller, but is probably below average as you said, but I kinda liked the signing. 

 

Mills ... I got nothing.

 

I wouldn't say shambles; it's more of a question mark, and considering there's still a lot of time in the off-season and still some FAs out there and some to come, it can be fixed.

 

Admittedly, though, it would have been nice to not have Wood and Cogs retire right before we potentially start a rookie, but it might not be a disaster.

[MTBill]

I will say this about the news today.

 

At least he did this now, not AFTER the draft or even worse after pre-season.  We have time to react to it.  Perhaps this is why he agreed to a pay cut with a 1M bonus - so he could cash out.  Now the question is whether he was planning this in advance....  what with firing his agent via Twitter too.

 

I still appreciate the fact this comes now - while there is still time for the team to react, rather than when there is nothing which could be done about it and we'd have a real hole on the line.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

1 minute ago, thurst44 said:

Y'know, I was very much not a fan of the Ducasse signing (it's rare i rail against a player, but i railed against him), but he played perfectly fine last year. I know PFF is not the be all and end all, but...

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/vladimir-ducasse/5586

 

There was a lot of clamor here for Groy to start but now that he might be the starter, he clearly sucks. Miller played well in his second season and is young, so the jury's out. Bodine played well in 2016 like Miller, but is probably below average as you said, but I kinda liked the signing. 

 

Mills ... I got nothing.

 

I wouldn't say shambles; it's more of a question mark, and considering there's still a lot of time in the off-season and still some FAs out there and some to come, it can be fixed.

 

Admittedly, though, it would have been nice to not have Wood and Cogs retire right before we potentially start a rookie, but it might not be a disaster.

I am a huge follower of college football ( coached 17 years at Junior college level and son is coaching in the FCS right now) and I really like James Daniels, Will Hernandez and Isaiah Wynn as options at pick #22. There are some good guards availability in rounds 2 & 3 but these guys are superior IMO

[Mr. WEO]

How great was this O-line last year?

[MTBill]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

How great was this O-line last year?

 

While not great - probably better than it will be without Incognito and Wood.  I don't mind losing Cordy as much BECAUSE of what Dawkins was able to do, but we have less depth with losing Cordy.  If instead we lost Mills & Vlad, it would be the opposite story.

 

Just this amateur observers opinion based on what I see/hear/read.

 

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

How great was this O-line last year?

Good point. Probably barely top 20.But now we are probably BARELY top 30. The replacements are the concern and how the off. line will look going forward. I trust this group to fill out the roster well.

[gobills1212]

45 minutes ago, Bakin said:

Lost 3 starters in 2 months. 

Devastating. 

 

How exactly is our new Franchise QB going to stay alive, especially after we give away all our picks as some are primed to do?

 

 

 

The right side of the screen has a scroll function. 

It is your friend

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, MTBill said:

 

While not great - probably better than it will be without Incognito and Wood.  I don't mind losing Cordy as much BECAUSE of what Dawkins was able to do, but we have less depth with losing Cordy.  If instead we lost Mills & Vlad, it would be the opposite story.

 

Just this amateur observers opinion based on what I see/hear/read.

 

 

Troy will easily replace Wood skill wise, maybe not as a leader of the line.  Glenn is someone else's problem now.  Incognito will look less and less awesome as his replacement plays as well.  

[Mojo44]

 It’s a lot easier to find good offensivLineman in later rounds. Not so easy to get a good quarterback that way. Trust the process. These changes may even be better for the bills going forward with their new line.e Lineman in later rounds. Not so easy to get a good quarterback that way. Trust the process. These changes may even be better for the bills going forward with their new line.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, MOVALLEYRANDY said:

Good point. Probably barely top 20.But now we are probably BARELY top 30. The replacements are the concern and how the off. line will look going forward. I trust this group to fill out the roster well.

 

 

TT made them look better than they were.  McCoy too.

 

They weren't good.  I don't se a huge problem due to some perceived downgrade.

[HOUSE]

A QB is useless now

[Freddie's Dead]

55 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

Y'know, I was very much not a fan of the Ducasse signing (it's rare i rail against a player, but i railed against him), but he played perfectly fine last year. I know PFF is not the be all and end all, but...

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/vladimir-ducasse/5586

 

Perfectly fine?  Dude was a turnstile.  I have no idea what film they were watching.

 

[Teddy KGB]

38 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

TT made them look better than they were.

 

When was this ?  In 2016 vs that terrible 49ers team ? 

[billsfan89]

InCog's retirement means that there is a glaring hole at LG now. Even if you are comfortable with Groy at Center (Which I am) and Dawkins at LT (Which I am) and the regime feels like John Miller in a new scheme will turn it around at RG there still are 2 glaring holes along the O-line. I think you have to see a fairly high pick along the O-line. 

[Jerome007]

Richie was by far the best lineman. His blocks paved the way for so much of Shady's runs. Sure he CAN be replaced, everybody can be. It doesn't mean he will be though! Some of you are crazy for saying it's a small thing. There's no guarantee the Bills find a good replacement for him this year.

 

[HumbleAndHungry]

Package all our picks for Quenton Nelson.  Qbs are overrated 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Finkle Is Einhorn

[frogger]

7 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

InCog's retirement means that there is a glaring hole at LG now. Even if you are comfortable with Groy at Center (Which I am) and Dawkins at LT (Which I am) and the regime feels like John Miller in a new scheme will turn it around at RG there still are 2 glaring holes along the O-line. I think you have to see a fairly high pick along the O-line. 

 

I don’t know what happened to Miller, but I saw him working out on instagram, he looks good.  I think we can all hope he has a breakout year.

[Turk71]

58 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

TT made them look better than they were.  McCoy too.

 

They weren't good.  I don't se a huge problem due to some perceived downgrade.

I don't think they were all that good last year either,  but I am not sure Tyrod made them look better. He held the ball longer than any QB in the league and took a ton of sacks because of it. 

 

15 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

InCog's retirement means that there is a glaring hole at LG now. Even if you are comfortable with Groy at Center (Which I am) and Dawkins at LT (Which I am) and the regime feels like John Miller in a new scheme will turn it around at RG there still are 2 glaring holes along the O-line. I think you have to see a fairly high pick along the O-line. 

I think Groy will play G and Bodine/draft pick will play C. . I expect a couple linemen within the first 3 rnds along with a LB WR and a QB. Probably get a few castoffs from other teams after the draft too.

[Tcali]

how about if the team agrees to pay for any future kidney or liver transplants?? could we squeeze another yr or two out of him?

[hondo in seattle]

Anyone who believes games are won and lost in the trenches has to be worried right now.  We've got some serviceable players on the line but no studs.  

 

 

[Steptide]

Meh I don't know. Our line wasn't all that great Imo. Yes we had the 6th best rushing offense, but I think Tyrod and his scrambling made up for alot of the lines bad pass protection. In all honesty I'm not that worried about it 

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, Jerome007 said:

Richie was by far the best lineman. His blocks paved the way for so much of Shady's runs. Sure he CAN be replaced, everybody can be. It doesn't mean he will be though! Some of you are crazy for saying it's a small thing. There's no guarantee the Bills find a good replacement for him this year.

 

 

Most fans are underestimating the impact of losing an all pro at LG will mean. His play helped both the center and left tackle to look so much better than they were.  Anyone recall the last time the Bills had an all-pro OG? It was all the way back in 2003 and Ruben Brown played 9 seasons for Buffalo and then went on to play another 4 for Chicago. The man was an eight-time pro bowler for Buffalo and made the pro bowl one year for the Bears.

 

You wanna know something else? The last time the Bills had a lot of superior players on the offensive line they were a playoff team in the late 80's, the early 90s. Previous to that they won two AFL championships with stars on the offensive line. One all pro player on a five-man line is not going to cut it either like with Jason Peters, Ruben Brown. The weakest player on that line will be exploited continuously all game long. Just like they do with Mills over and over.  

 

There is a direct correlation between having a superior offensive line and making the playoffs. Versus having an inferior line and being a perennial losing team thinking you can find quality offensive linemen in the later rounds. Sure, you can find any position in the later rounds.

 

Drafting a top four QB with six or seven early picks looks like a fool's errand unless that line gets upgraded big time. It makes more sense to rebuild the line this year and draft a guy like Mike White and go for the QB once there is a solid team around to protect the guy. IMHO

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

The real problem with the line is continuity. Shady offered Richie money because he knows the value of knowing where his block is going to be, how to follow Richie to open a hole. We finally had 5 on the line for a few years in a row which is a HUGE value. Continuity means communication and that helps. An O-line is only as good as the communication, scheme, play calls and continuity. 

Most of these guys are pretty close in talent, save for a few superstars, which we did not have. The biggest loss is having new guys playing in a new scheme with a new OC, new GB, new line and new receivers. This is going to be a tough year on offense unless we draft really, really well. 

 

It feels like we need to spend the entire draft (except MLB) on the offense. Hope we don't trade the farm to do it, but I'd love to see Baker or Rosen in a Bills uni.

 

 

[Logic]

Dawkins - rookie - Groy/rookie - Ducasse/Miller - Mills/McDermott

That's how I see it right now. I think they add rooks at LG and C and give Miller a chance to win the RG spot in camp. Here's hoping McDermott's a diamond on the rough. They liked him enough to stash him on the active roster the second half of last year without him ever playing a snap.

[billsredneck1]

2 hours ago, MTBill said:

 

While not great - probably better than it will be without Incognito and Wood.  I don't mind losing Cordy as much BECAUSE of what Dawkins was able to do, but we have less depth with losing Cordy.  If instead we lost Mills & Vlad, it would be the opposite story.

 

Just this amateur observers opinion based on what I see/hear/read.

 

bodine started every game in his 4 years from being drafted by cincy. wood was a 9 yr. vet.....equal

 

 newhouse.....much better than mills

 

miller...we all saw his potential, but due to personal tragedies and stupid line play changes, he got put away....bring him back.

 

groy can play all 3 inside spots and be the vet presence on either side of center.

 

we have connor mcdermott who is not a pipsqueek and we can draft a couple of line guys. we may be better off with having to retool or shuffle this line. i think this was a blessing in disguise going into the future.

[billsredneck1]

12 minutes ago, Logic said:

Dawkins - rookie - Groy/rookie - Ducasse/Miller - Mills/McDermott

That's how I see it right now. I think they add rooks at LG and C and give Miller a chance to win the RG spot in camp. Here's hoping McDermott's a diamond on the rough. They liked him enough to stash him on the active roster the second half of last year without him ever playing a snap.

dawkins / groy  /bodine /miller / newhouse......to begin with.

[billsfan89]

3 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

bodine started every game in his 4 years from being drafted by cincy. wood was a 9 yr. vet.....equal

 

 newhouse.....much better than mills

 

miller...we all saw his potential, but due to personal tragedies and stupid line play changes, he got put away....bring him back.

 

groy can play all 3 inside spots and be the vet presence on either side of center.

 

we have connor mcdermott who is not a pipsqueek and we can draft a couple of line guys. we may be better off with having to retool or shuffle this line. i think this was a blessing in disguise going into the future.

 

Bordine graded out very poorly and most Bengals fans will tell you that he wasn't that good (so he passes neither the eye test or advanced metrics.) I think having an experienced center as a backup isn't bad but I wouldn't count on him as a starter. 

 

Newhouse and Mills are about equal, both would be capable backups but neither are great starters. Groy and Dawkins are the only starters on the line I am comfortable with, Miller at RG I am 50/50 on, if the staff feels Miller will convert to the new scheme then at best you still are down 2 starters at LG and RT. 

[Paul Costa]

Dawkins was probably the best OL player last year. Hard to even count Glenn. Wood and Incognito we’re above average. Definitely a loss. Groy was solid two years ago when Wood went down. Miller was disappointing last year if he can rebound and we can draft a solid inside OL Guy and adding Bodine we should be fine. Getting all of Incognito’s cap money back is a big plus!!!

[billsredneck1]

18 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Bordine graded out very poorly and most Bengals fans will tell you that he wasn't that good (so he passes neither the eye test or advanced metrics.) I think having an experienced center as a backup isn't bad but I wouldn't count on him as a starter. 

 

Newhouse and Mills are about equal, both would be capable backups but neither are great starters. Groy and Dawkins are the only starters on the line I am comfortable with, Miller at RG I am 50/50 on, if the staff feels Miller will convert to the new scheme then at best you still are down 2 starters at LG and RT. 

i have been p'o'd about the lack of attention that has been paid to the rt spot for years now. i really thought seantrel would find a home and do good there, but the fo has ignored this spot year after year. if they have mills starting again this year it would seem to be the biggest example of ignorance/incompetence beyond doug whaley and our qb will get killed.  no way newhouse can't, at the very least be an improvement.

24 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Barf.

 

No way Castillo sends his boy Ducasse to the bench. 

i don't know what the love for juan is.....well at least the tolbert cord was cut.....

Edited April 11, 2018 by billsredneck1

[maryland-bills-fan]

3 hours ago, Mojo44 said:

 It’s a lot easier to find good offensivLineman in later rounds. Not so easy to get a good quarterback that way. Trust the process. These changes may even be better for the bills going forward with their new line.e Lineman in later rounds. Not so easy to get a good quarterback that way. Trust the process. These changes may even be better for the bills going forward with their new line.

Gee,  why does anyone draft them in the first 3 rounds.  They must not be very smart.  Remember the good Bills teams used a lot of high draft picks on the o-line.

 

55 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Most fans are underestimating the impact of losing an all pro at LG will mean. His play helped both the center and left tackle to look so much better than they were.  Anyone recall the last time the Bills had an all-pro OG? It was all the way back in 2003 and Ruben Brown played 9 seasons for Buffalo and then went on to play another 4 for Chicago. The man was an eight-time pro bowler for Buffalo and made the pro bowl one year for the Bears.

 

You wanna know something else? The last time the Bills had a lot of superior players on the offensive line they were a playoff team in the late 80's, the early 90s. Previous to that they won two AFL championships with stars on the offensive line. One all pro player on a five-man line is not going to cut it either like with Jason Peters, Ruben Brown. The weakest player on that line will be exploited continuously all game long. Just like they do with Mills over and over.  

 

There is a direct correlation between having a superior offensive line and making the playoffs. Versus having an inferior line and being a perennial losing team thinking you can find quality offensive linemen in the later rounds. Sure, you can find any position in the later rounds.

 

Drafting a top four QB with six or seven early picks looks like a fool's errand unless that line gets upgraded big time. It makes more sense to rebuild the line this year and draft a guy like Mike White and go for the QB once there is a solid team around to protect the guy. IMHO

I have a thread somewhere, about the Bills o-line cost in the glory years.  The QBatAnycost trolls didn't like it.

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, billsredneck1 said:

i have been p'o'd about the lack of attention that has been paid to the rt spot for years now. i really thought seantrel would find a home and do good there, but the fo has ignored this spot year after year. if they have mills starting again this year it would seem to be the biggest example of ignorance/incompetence beyond doug whaley and our qb will get killed.

 

Mills is an above average run blocker (although not a mauler by any definition.) But I can honestly say he might be one of the worst pass blockers in the NFL certainly as a starter. I think as a backup he isn't bad to have on the roster but going into the season with him as a starter is nearly criminal. Granted I have faith in the GM to address it because they did bring in Dawkins as the intended RT last season, it proves they aren't comfortable with Mills since Cordy's injury is the only reason Mills got starts last year. 

[benderbender]

I want to know what Incognito found out. What news did he find out that would make him contemplate retirement? I ask because his reasons for retirement are 100% grade A bull flop.

 

He was there for Woods retirement. He himself had a post season physical. His major health concerns suddenly surface three months later and mysteriously just before the draft? I don’t subscribe to conspiracy theory weekly, but something is definitely going on.