just take jackson and keep picks

[CuddyDark]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

By "all the tools" you mean one tool - a strong arm. You can't name a single QB that was drafted on arm talent alone and made a career out of it. It never happens. I think Cam Newton has come closer than anyone and he had exactly one great season, and he's never fixed his accuracy problems.

 

I think if Mahomes and Allen both bust that could be the end of that style of QB getting drafted high. The NFL has to learn eventually, right?

Nope. The idea of getting Favre or Dan Marino is just too strong.

Edited March 18, 2018 by CuddyDark

[sven233]

3 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

They dumped TT they will not sign a clone.    

Laziest comparison I have ever seen.  Just terrible.

 

Look, Jackson may not be a top prospect or turn into anyhting special in the NFL, but to compare him to Taylor because he is black and can run is lazy.  The guy has more pocket presence, vision, arm talent, and throwing ability than Taylor could ever dream of having.  On top of that, as good of an athlete is Taylor is, Jackson is even a better athlete as well.

 

I am not sure if Jackson will ever be good in the NFL, but to compare him to Taylor is awful.  Taylor, as a passer, is one of the worst pure passers in the history of the league.

Edited March 18, 2018 by sven233

[Bills Freak]

40 minutes ago, Paul Costa said:

Something like this will have us as a solid NFL Football team going forward. Any of the top 5 QB’s this year can end up being a franchise guy or a bust. Why mortgage the whole draft fo a 20% shot of hitting the mark.

Pisses me off to no end when I hear this . Would love to build w/ our picks & take Lamar J

[Fetou]

5 minutes ago, sven233 said:

Laziest comparison I have ever seen.  Just terrible.

 

Look, Jackson may not be a top prospect or turn into anyhting special in the NFL, but to compare him to Taylor because he is black and can run is lazy.  The guy has more pocket presence, vision, arm talent, and throwing ability than Taylor could ever dram of having.  On top of that, as good of an athlete is Taylor is, Jackson is even a better athlete as well.

 

I am not sure if Jackson will ever be good in the NFL, but to compare him to Taylor is awful.  Taylor, as a passer, is one of the worst pure passers in the history of the league.

Let's not forget the nearly 3" difference in height either. There is a reason Taylor always left the pocket or held on for dear life.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

18 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

By "all the tools" you mean one tool - a strong arm. You can't name a single QB that was drafted on arm talent alone and made a career out of it. It never happens. I think Cam Newton has come closer than anyone and he had exactly one great season, and he's never fixed his accuracy problems.

 

I think if Mahomes and Allen both bust that could be the end of that style of QB getting drafted high. The NFL has to learn eventually, right?

I would say Jeff George and Jay Cutler made a career out of arm strength alone. Not even accuracy. They just kept getting benifit of the doubt and chances because of arm strength. Dispite being terrible and have nothing else going for them, they still got chances.

[HappyDays]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Stafford?

 

Stafford's scouting reports didn't question his accuracy.

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/matthew-stafford?id=79860

 

I'm not talking about completion percentage, I don't care about that. I'm talking about ball placement and touch. Teams convince themselves every year they'll take a strong arm with poor mechanics and ball placement and mold it into an NFL QB. It hasn't happened yet, certainly not in this millennium. Josh Allen is just Christian Hackenberg with an even stronger arm and bigger body which is why he's considered a top 10 QB instead of a 2nd round project.

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Stafford's scouting reports didn't question his accuracy.

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/matthew-stafford?id=79860

 

I'm not talking about completion percentage, I don't care about that. I'm talking about ball placement and touch. Teams convince themselves every year they'll take a strong arm with poor mechanics and ball placement and mold it into an NFL QB. It hasn't happened yet, certainly not in this millennium. Josh Allen is just Christian Hackenberg with an even stronger arm and bigger body which is why he's considered a top 10 QB instead of a 2nd round project.

 'Can get fundamentally lazy... ... Though he has an efficient overall release, should be able to speed it up for underneath screens passes to take better advantage of the surprise to the defense. ... Sloppy footwork. ... Will get lazy and throw off his back foot, which could lead to turnovers in the NFL... ... Willing to throw into tight spots, though more often than not he places the ball where it needs to be... ... Not great accuracy on crossing routes. ... Too often leads his receivers too far or forces them to reach back, slowing their momentum and limiting their ability to generate yardage after the catch.'

 

That was from the scouting report you linked: it literally questions his accuracy, ball placement, and mechanics. 

[HappyDays]

21 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 'Can get fundamentally lazy... ... Though he has an efficient overall release, should be able to speed it up for underneath screens passes to take better advantage of the surprise to the defense. ... Sloppy footwork. ... Will get lazy and throw off his back foot, which could lead to turnovers in the NFL... ... Willing to throw into tight spots, though more often than not he places the ball where it needs to be... ... Not great accuracy on crossing routes. ... Too often leads his receivers too far or forces them to reach back, slowing their momentum and limiting their ability to generate yardage after the catch.'

 

That was from the scouting report you linked: it literally questions his accuracy, ball placement, and mechanics. 

 

They say his mechanics can get sloppy. And question his accuracy on a specific route. In fact it says right there that he generally places the ball well in tight windows. That's listed as a weakness! Now look at his strengths:

 

Quote

Blessed with a stronger and more accurate arm than many current NFL quarterbacks... Efficient footwork and depth on his drop from center. ... Quick to scan the field and go through his progressions. ... Elite arm strength. ... Can make all the throws and shows power and toughness getting the ball deep even when defenders are closing and making contact. ... Consistent with excellent accuracy to all levels of the field. ... Consistent placing the deep out on the far shoulder of his receiver, away from the defender. ... Has good deep accuracy and trajectory. ... Lofts the ball high enough to allow his receiver to run under it

 

Compare with Josh Allen's scouting report:

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/josh-allen?id=2560029

 

Strengths on accuracy and mechanics:

 

Quote

Attacks intermediate windows with pretty good precision when allowed to sit down in the pocket.

 

Weaknesses:

 

Quote

Never had completion rate higher than 56 percent in either season as a starter. Accuracy diminishes greatly when he's forced to move his feet... Fastball pitcher whose touch could use improvement short. Will baby the deep throws at times... Would benefit by trading some velocity for better timing. Anticipatory throws don't seem to come naturally. Doesn't keep feet "throw-ready" when sliding in pocket. Frequently defaults to off-platform throws when there is time to set feet and deliver.

 

His other strengths are literally just "strong arm" phrased 10 different ways. His other weaknesses also touch on his mental game. And yes this is the same scouting report we read for Kyle Boller, EJ Manuel, Paxton Lynch, etc. Allen has the strongest arm of them all which means he'll get drafted even higher, and probably get more chances to start, but I can almost guarantee his career will ultimately end the same way.

Edited March 18, 2018 by HappyDays

[GoBills808]

33 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

They say his mechanics can get sloppy. And question his accuracy on a specific route. In fact it says right there that he generally places the ball well in tight windows. That's listed as a weakness! Now look at his strengths:

 

 

Compare with Josh Allen's scouting report:

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/josh-allen?id=2560029

 

Strengths on accuracy and mechanics:

 

 

Weaknesses:

 

 

His other strengths are literally just "strong arm" phrased 10 different ways. His other weaknesses also touch on his mental game. And yes this is the same scouting report we read for Kyle Boller, EJ Manuel, Paxton Lynch, etc. Allen has the strongest arm of them all which means he'll get drafted even higher, and probably get more chances to start, but I can almost guarantee his career will ultimately end the same way.

They read the same to me. Most of Stafford's strengths you quoted also have to do with his arm. I'm not saying they're going to be the same player, but they were similar enough coming out of college. The narrative is overblown at this point, I'll be glad if the Bills take him.

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, sven233 said:

The guy has more pocket presence, vision, arm talent, and throwing ability than Taylor could ever dram of having.  On top of that, as good of an athlete is Taylor is, Jackson is even a better athlete as well.

 

I've heard this argument a million times on this board . We'll see how all of those traits you listed transfer to the NFL. 

 

Lamar's stats were downright awful against the SEC. 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Chicken Boo

[Real McClappy]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I've hear this on this board a million times.

 

We'll see how all of those traits you listed transfer to the NFL. 

 

Lamar's stats were downright awful against the SEC. 

Did you happen to see who his RB's, TE's and WR's were for the Cardinals?  Jaylen Smith might get drafted as he was decent and has good size. I was not pretty.

[Chicken Boo]

8 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Did you happen to see who his RB's, TE's and WR's were for the Cardinals?  Jaylen Smith might get drafted as he was decent and has good size. I was not pretty.

 

I had this debate earlier in the day.  Roster excuses don't work for Allen.  They're not working for Lamar either.

 

A 49% completion percentage is a 49% completion percentage.

[Teddy KGB]

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I had this debate earlier in the day.  Roster excuses don't work for Allen.  They're not working for Lamar either.

 

A 49% completion percentage is a 49% completion percentage.

 

We don’t need another project qb.  

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I think Lamar Jackson is like the 7 or 8 QB on The Bean Borard, I see the Jets taking him with the 3rd pick and looking like fools.

[billsfan_34]

4 hours ago, bufrock j said:

new OC runs the system he ran in college, could end up being best of bunch and keeping all those picks could fill out a roster with alot of holes.  maybe even trade back one pick and shoot for extra RD1 next year

I would be ok with that but if Mayfield is there at 12....

4 hours ago, McBean said:

I’d rather have Nate Peterman under center than Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen.

Totally ridiculous- prepare to eat come good ole crow

[jkx2]

The guy had the weakest arm at the combine. We don't need another run around noodle armed quarterback.

[HumbleAndHungry]

That's why I think it's great that beane signed McCarron to a cap friendly two year deal. Best case scenario we draft a rookie they can sit a year and Mccarron plays above average this year.  Then we can flip Mccarron for a high draft pick and start our rookie the second year

Edited March 18, 2018 by Finkle Is Einhorn

[Buff76ers]

Honestly, I think keeping all the picks and even trading back if called on wouldn’t be the worst thing.  We have lots of needs, and we have the picks to get it done.  If we pass on a QB in round one, and grab one in the 2nd or 3rd, there will be less negitivity  if it’s a miss rather than a miss in the 1st.  If Seattle can get lucky with Wilson in the 3rd so can we.  Maybe, just maybe AJ is better than most think, and can be the QB we need for 2-5 years.  

[bufrock j]

3 hours ago, Buff76ers said:

Honestly, I think keeping all the picks and even trading back if called on wouldn’t be the worst thing.  We have lots of needs, and we have the picks to get it done.  If we pass on a QB in round one, and grab one in the 2nd or 3rd, there will be less negitivity  if it’s a miss rather than a miss in the 1st.  If Seattle can get lucky with Wilson in the 3rd so can we.  Maybe, just maybe AJ is better than most think, and can be the QB we need for 2-5 years.  

this plus jackson with 12 instead of wilson in third round [good luck ]is a win win

[Buffalo Barbarian]

No

 

 

[26TrapDraw]

13 hours ago, McBean said:

I’d rather have Nate Peterman under center than Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen.

don't worry you will get your wish cause none of them will be under center next year for the Bills.

[NickelCity]

13 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

I do believe he will be the best rookie. I don't know about long term but if I wanted to win in the short I'd take Jackson.

 

Was just saying this to my buddy. I think Lamar could be ROY but have short window in the league.

[purple haze]

15 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Quick story from the parade in New Orleans yesterday. We had our Bills tent set up and had a lot of random Bills fans stopped by. This guy in jorts walked up and was talking with one of the guys. “I’m just glad Tyrod is gone. Now we can play a white QB.” That guy was a season ticket holder from Arcade. That guy (and a large group of Bills fans) will be furious if they add another black QB. 

 

Personally I don’t care what the QB looks like as long as he wins. We would be naive to pretend that it isn’t a reason that some people don’t like Jackson. I just wish people would own it like that guy in the jorts.

Owning it is not what many of those types of people will do.  They will duck, dodge and deny; hide  behind their stated "reasons."  Some of the most non-respectable,  ignorant, useless people walking the earth.

 

Anyway, here's to Beane and co. finding a QB they believe they can win with regardless of their ethnic background.  If that's Rosen or Rudolph, cool.  If that's Jackson, cool.  WTF difference does it make?

[stuvian]

I'm quite comfortable staying at 12 to select Jackson. He shows as much promise as the other 1st round prospects and we need to keep our other picks for an aging roster

[buffaloboyinATL]

21 hours ago, RPbillsfan said:

This is exactly the pathway the Bills should take.  Stay at 12, take Lamar Jackson.  Let him develop more physically and learn the offense.  Play him in certain packages to get him time in game situations.

 

Use 22 for a top linebacker such as Leighton Vander Esch or Rasean Evans.

 

Use 53 and 56 on OL and WR

 

Use 65 and 96 on CB and DT

 

Six potential contributors at position of need and how do the Bills look in relation to the Jets and Dolphins.

I fully endorse this strategy.

[Bills Freak]

10 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I fully endorse this strategy.

As do I. If you truly study the film, its hard not to see the talent Jackson has. His inaccuracy seems to be from footwork, not bad decisions or arm talent. He throws w/ ease & looks very trainable. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

the Red Skins sports media wants him which is another reason to say pass. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[richardb1952]

10 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I fully endorse this strategy.

 

 

As do I.  I do not see that much difference in potential from most of these projected first round QBs.  Certainly not enough to spend valuable draft capital to move up to get one.  As it now stands, Bills would be moving up to get the 4th best (rated QB).  Take Lamar at 12.  If he fails, Bills aren't out that much but will have opportunities to vastly improve the team with all the draft capital they have accumulated.  Seems like a worthwhile gamble to me.  

[Augie]

Starting with “JUST” implies we are settling. Is there a worse possible idea, both in terms of language and football? 

[John from Riverside]

On 3/18/2018 at 11:31 AM, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I think Lamar Jackson is like the 7 or 8 QB on The Bean Borard, I see the Jets taking him with the 3rd pick and looking like fools.

3rd is too high for him I agree....I dont think it is too high for the 22 pick

[Bills Freak]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

3rd is too high for him I agree....I dont think it is too high for the 22 pick

I actually have him as #5. Agree not worth trading up & he's probably there @ 22 but maybe not. With the strong need for QBs in this draft, I'd be ok taking him @ 12.

[OldTimer1960]

While Jackson has some scud misses on tape, he also has some damn fine throws plus he isTHE most dynamic running QB that I have ever seen (and I’ve been watching since since 1970).  Can he clean up those horrible throws?  I don’t know, but I’d rather risk pick 12 on him (or Rudolph) than trade 3 firsts + for any other QB in the draft.

[billsredneck1]

On 3/18/2018 at 10:24 AM, MC Hamburg said:

What if the Browns take Jackson...with Tyrod as there QB.... their playing styles would be the same and the offensive philosofy would not change....just a thought 

that would be awesome! go browns!

On 3/18/2018 at 10:30 AM, joesixpack said:

 

I’m saying that pick would be a terminal disease for the franchise 

and mcd would end up with the...clap

On 3/18/2018 at 10:38 AM, joesixpack said:

 

Not a pocket passer. Not good at scanning the field. Poor accuracy.

oh nooo.....8-9 in the box again.....noooooooo!

[Solomon Grundy]

7 minutes ago, Bills Freak said:

I actually have him as #5. Agree not worth trading up & he's probably there @ 22 but maybe not. With the strong need for QBs in this draft, I'd be ok taking him @ 12.

Glad to see you come around!! 

[billsredneck1]

On 3/18/2018 at 10:51 AM, BillsFan2313 said:

I said this in another thread. My gut feeling all along had been the Bills love Lamar Jackson. When they moved up to 12, I switched to thinking they are trading up again. After the Jets trade to 3, I believe my gut feeling was right. The Bills moved up to 12 for Jackson. Another trade up to get Roquan Smith would be amazing. 

oh yeah that's why move no. one was trading tt who could have mentored lamar.  yep

[Fetou]

5 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

oh yeah that's why move no. one was trading tt who could have mentored lamar.  yep

Pick 65 for Tyrod is selling high. That is a massive compensation for a 6th round career backup to Joe Flacco that you got for free. Probably one of the best (and only) things that Rex Ryan did for this franchise.

 

I don't think anyone would prefer Tyrod mentoring someone at QB to that pick.

 

 

[Ga boy]

14 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

While Jackson has some scud misses on tape, he also has some damn fine throws plus he isTHE most dynamic running QB that I have ever seen (and I’ve been watching since since 1970).  Can he clean up those horrible throws?  I don’t know, but I’d rather risk pick 12 on him (or Rudolph) than trade 3 firsts + for any other QB in the draft.

Yes, Rogers or Luck or Stafford  would be worth 3 ones, but NOT any of these neophytes.  I think we can get back to playoffs by reloading with our picks, even if we have to go with either of the two QBs we have today, and we'll score more than 3 points.

[billsredneck1]

On 3/18/2018 at 12:06 PM, Awwufelloff said:

I like Lamar he is gone in the top 15. He has every tool. He is the next Mike Vick. 

taking the league by storm is the new age running qb! it will take defenses years to figure it out!  1990 says hell yeah!

[Solomon Grundy]

36 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

taking the league by storm is the new age running qb! it will take defenses years to figure it out!  1990 says hell yeah!

Note the sentence, He has every tool. Don't forget your jorts, redneck

[3rdand12]

On 3/18/2018 at 10:24 AM, MC Hamburg said:

What if the Browns take Jackson...with Tyrod as there QB.... their playing styles would be the same and the offensive philosofy would not change....just a thought 

why don't you just shut up. 

that thought scares me.

But at 4 ?

13 hours ago, stuvian said:

I'm quite comfortable staying at 12 to select Jackson. He shows as much promise as the other 1st round prospects and we need to keep our other picks for an aging roster

yep or heck maybe 15. love the trading back when you know that it is secured

46 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

taking the league by storm is the new age running qb! it will take defenses years to figure it out!  1990 says hell yeah!

well the RB is coming back isn't it ? heck teams are even getting FBs and 3rd tackles