Josh Allen's our guy...

[FeelingOnYouboty]

The two biggest skills a great QB needs is accuracy and anticipation. He has neither. He gets away with lack of anticipation because he has such a great arm but this kid is a year away from being a year away. 

[OldTimer1960]

7 hours ago, CajunBillsBacker said:

First we’ve got to understand that all the QB’s in the draft have issues. So basically it’s pick your poison and hope for the best.

 

I was reading the draft profiles for Rodgers and Brees yesterday, and both were underwhelming. Brees slipped to the 2nd, and Rodgers fell to the bottom of the 1st. Both will be first ballot HOF’ers.

 

Post combine, I still have Allen as my #2 QB behind Rosen. If you look at 2 things that he had at Wyoming that will be light years better in the NFL. Receivers, and coaching. He will get the level of coaching in the NFL that Wyoming couldn’t touch. I bet half of the coaches in the league have already looked at his mechanics and spotted something that will help his accuracy. That’s just what experienced NFL level coaching does.

 

I think that having a decent OL will also help his accuracy.  In the games I’ve seen, many of his throws were on the run due to defensive pressure 

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, BeefCurtns said:

I'll probably be wrong but I am willing to bet the Bills stay put at 21 and 22 and take d line ( maybe Harrison Barnes) and a LB ( insert favorite here) we don't see a QB until round 2. Just my gut feeling.

 

 

While I certainly think that is a possibility, I do think Terry Pegula and everyone else involved want an elite prospect at quarterback. It's why they did the trade last year, to get ammo to possibly move up for a quarterback this year. A round 2 quarterback like Rudolph or the guy from Richmond just isn't getting it done. If you don't trade up, I think you pass on quarterback this year. 

[BillnutinHouston]

I think it would be irresponsible to move up several spots for such a risky prospect.  If they're gonna give up a ton, I believe it will be for a more sure think like Darnold or Rosen. 

[KDIGGZ]

1 hour ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

The two biggest skills a great QB needs is accuracy and anticipation. He has neither. He gets away with lack of anticipation because he has such a great arm but this kid is a year away from being a year away. 

His big arm has actually been a detriment to his development because like you said he can get away with most things that other QB's can't. There's been no need for him to work on it because he can throw late and still complete the pass by zipping it in there against bad competition. We saw in the Iowa game against better defenders that he wasn't getting away with that stuff. He threw late and got picked off twice. And that's against players that won't even make it to the NFL. The jump from Wyoming to the NFL is going to be drastic and he has a lot of things to fine tune before he's ready. If the Bills do draft him then I don't want to see him on the field in 2018. But you know how that goes. 1 bad game with whatever crap veteran QB we get and the fans will be going nuts for Allen to play

[FeelingOnYouboty]

3 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

His big arm has actually been a detriment to his development because like you said he can get away with most things that other QB's can't. There's been no need for him to work on it because he can throw late and still complete the pass by zipping it in there against bad competition. We saw in the Iowa game against better defenders that he wasn't getting away with that stuff. He threw late and got picked off twice. And that's against players that won't even make it to the NFL. The jump from Wyoming to the NFL is going to be drastic and he has a lot of things to fine tune before he's ready. If the Bills do draft him then I don't want to see him on the field in 2018. But you know how that goes. 1 bad game with whatever crap veteran QB we get and the fans will be going nuts for Allen to play

I really like the kid and I hope he sticks because this league needs talented QB's but he needs to go to a place like NYG where they have good developmental coaches like Shurmer. 

 

I kinda wanted him to go back for another year and transfer to Michigan and work with  Harbaugh.

[ddaryl]

The Combine is no reason to move Allen up on the draft board. His game tape tells the tale.. Anyone who drafts Allen in the 1st is making a mistake.

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Considering that Wentz had a completion percentage well over 60% for 2 years, if they said he was "abysmally inaccurate" well, people can say anything

 

People smitten by Allen-love say his WR dropped a lot of balls, but the published drop statistics say he actually suffered less drops than the other QB (6-7%)

vs Rosen (11%) or Jackson (12%)

 

 

 

So did Peyton Manning and he's a first ballot HOFer...

[The Now Moment]

Did anyone watch the games?  Anyone?  I watched several games this year.  His receivers dropped some passes but his offensive line was atrocious.  He had constant pressure and was forced out of the pocket a lot.  He had to throw the ball away more than any other QB in this class.  He didn't have one of the top tackles in their class protecting him like Rosen and Mayfield did.  His receivers also couldn't get open to save their lives.  No separation whatsoever.  His running game this year was terrible.  He was the team.  He did everything.  His completion percentage is a direct result of the lack of talent around him.  There's no question he needs to improve his accuracy, as does every QB in this class.  Allen could use a year on the bench to learn and it could help his talents translate to the NFL.  Stop looking at just stats.  Stats don't tell the whole story.  But that's what this day and age is all about isn't it? Stats stats stats stats stats stats stats

Edited March 5, 2018 by Buffalo30

[aristocrat]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Did anyone watch the games?  Anyone?  I watched several games this year.  His receivers dropped some passes but his offensive line was atrocious.  He had constant pressure and was forced out of the pocket a lot.  He had to throw the ball away more than any other QB in this class.  He didn't have one of the top tackles in their class protecting him like Rosen and Mayfield did.  His receivers also couldn't get open to save their lives.  No separation whatsoever.  His running game this year was terrible.  He was the team.  He did everything.  His completion percentage is a direct result of the lack of talent around him.  There's no question he needs to improve his accuracy, as does every QB in this class.  Allen could use a year on the bench to learn and it could help his talents translate to the NFL.  Stop looking at just stats.  Stats don't tell the whole story.  But that's what this day and age is all about isn't it? Stats stats stats stats stats stats stats

 

His wrs only had 12 drops where lamars had 34

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Did anyone watch the games?  Anyone?  I watched several games this year.  His receivers dropped some passes but his offensive line was atrocious.  He had constant pressure and was forced out of the pocket a lot.  He had to throw the ball away more than any other QB in this class.  He didn't have one of the top tackles in their class protecting him like Rosen and Mayfield did.  His receivers also couldn't get open to save their lives.  No separation whatsoever.  His running game this year was terrible.  He was the team.  He did everything.  His completion percentage is a direct result of the lack of talent around him.  There's no question he needs to improve his accuracy, as does every QB in this class.  Allen could use a year on the bench to learn and it could help his talents translate to the NFL.  Stop looking at just stats.  Stats don't tell the whole story.  But that's what this day and age is all about isn't it? Stats stats stats stats stats stats stats

 

I have watched 7 games.  4 from 2017 and 3 from 2016.  Overall I think the 2016 tape is a little better and that probably follows that his team was more talented around him that season. I just think he is more than a bit inaccurate.  His accuracy frightens me.  There are balls that end up 3 and 4 feet wide of their intended target.  It also has to be a concern that in 2017 his games against schools from power 5 conferences he face planted. If he had played well in those games I certainly would be higher than I am.  I think the chances Allen becomes a successful NFL Quarterback are low.  Not non-existent, but low.  

[corta765]

Guy was sub 60% completion percentage. Virtually no QB has ever succeeded with that and his footwork is hot garbage. I would be very mad if they draft him

[The Now Moment]

26 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

His wrs only had 12 drops where lamars had 34

I didn't say they had a lot of drops.  I said some.  I focused more on the lack of protection and the wrs inability to get open.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Allen and Jackson both scream BUST when I see them, and when I hear about what people say about them.

 

Just say NO.

 

[The Now Moment]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have watched 7 games.  4 from 2017 and 3 from 2016.  Overall I think the 2016 tape is a little better and that probably follows that his team was more talented around him that season. I just think he is more than a bit inaccurate.  His accuracy frightens me.  There are balls that end up 3 and 4 feet wide of their intended target.  It also has to be a concern that in 2017 his games against schools from power 5 conferences he face planted. If he had played well in those games I certainly would be higher than I am.  I think the chances Allen becomes a successful NFL Quarterback are low.  Not non-existent, but low.  

He needs to go to the right situation. One where he can sit and learn for a year and will have talents around him but he can certainly get better with his accuracy.  Why can he not improve in that area?  He was forced to make a lot of passes on the run instead of with his feet planted.  With better protection, I think his accuracy concerns will be a thing of the past. He just needs time to learn in the NFL and I think he will be fine.

3 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

Allen and Jackson both scream BUST when I see them, and when I hear about what people say about them.

 

Just say NO.

 

What about Darnold?  He had one of the highest turnover rates of any QB in college football this year?  Rosen's completion percentage wasn't that good either in his career and Rudolph averaged around a 50 percent completion rate against ranked opponents.  Every QB in this class has concerning stats.  Every last one of them.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Buffalo30

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

He needs to go to the right situation. One where he can sit and learn for a year and will have talents around him but he can certainly get better with his accuracy.  Why can he not improve in that area?  He was forced to make a lot of passes on the run instead of with his feet planted.  With better protection, I think his accuracy concerns will be a thing of the past. He just needs time to learn in the NFL and I think he will be fine.

 

Unless it is purely a simple mechanical fix - and of course it might be with Allen but that isn't what I see when I watch him - then I generally don't think players generally improve accuracy.  His protection was not great, I agree with that, but I don't think all of his inaccurate throws are a result of pressure. 

[Royale with Cheese]

If Allen's name is announced as the Bills pick, I will feel like I've been gut punched by Deontay Wilder.

[The Now Moment]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Unless it is purely a simple mechanical fix - and of course it might be with Allen but that isn't what I see when I watch him - then I generally don't think players generally improve accuracy.  His protection was not great, I agree with that, but I don't think all of his inaccurate throws are a result of pressure. 

All of these QBs need to improve.  All of them have problems in their games that they need to fix and get better at and Allen is no different.  He just has the highest ceiling of all of them IMO.  I hope whoever drafts him allows him to sit and learn.  These other QBs have accuracy issues too, it's not just Allen.  I think he will be fine and people are just overreacting to stats because that's what this day and age is all about...overreacting to stats.

[Nihilarian]

11 hours ago, billieve420 said:

Allen is going to need to sit for 2-3 yrs and you need a veteran like Keenum to hold things down until he is ready. I think wherever Allen ends up team should look to pair him with Keenum. Keenum gets his money 3-4 yr deal while Allen gets to sit back and learn.

 

Two, three years...really? Where do you guys get this stuff? I can see a team delaying from starting him on opening day so he can fully learn the offense and scheme while getting his NFL timing down due to the speed of the NFL. However, I could also see a team starting him right away depending on how quickly he picks things up.

 

The kid played in a pro-style offense at Wyoming which means he is experienced under center. He has good footwork and a very efficient release and he puts a lot of velocity on the ball. 

 

11 hours ago, Turk71 said:

Now consider this , against power 5 opp. the last 2 years 

Date	Opponent	Pass Completion	Passing Yards	Touchdowns	Interceptions
Sept. 16 2017	Oregon	9-of-24	64	0	1
Sept. 2 2017	Iowa	23-of-40	174	0	2
Sept. 10 2016	Nebraska	16-of-32	189	1	5

48 of 96   for 436 yds. 1 td and 8 int. in his only 3 games against power 5 competition. None of those teams were top teams those years.

Didn't have great numbers the last two seasons but that may be more due to the talent he was working with than any comment on his ability. 

 

The difference between Josh Allen and Sam Darnold was the talent surrounding both players. Allen had very little talent and carried the entire offense on his shoulders. How many players will the NFL see this year coming out of Wyoming besides Allen...exactly! 

 

From USC besides Darnold the fumbler, three. Although ten USC underclassman were seeking NFL draft evaluations this year. 

 

The talent, the coaches, the schemes on the teams surrounding  USC, UCLA and big school QBs enables them to put up such great numbers while having great success in college.

 

Let me ask this. How many of those greatly talented USC QB's have achieved great success in the NFL? 

 

 

[BigBuff423]

53 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Did anyone watch the games?  Anyone?  I watched several games this year.  His receivers dropped some passes but his offensive line was atrocious.  He had constant pressure and was forced out of the pocket a lot.  He had to throw the ball away more than any other QB in this class.  He didn't have one of the top tackles in their class protecting him like Rosen and Mayfield did.  His receivers also couldn't get open to save their lives.  No separation whatsoever.  His running game this year was terrible.  He was the team.  He did everything.  His completion percentage is a direct result of the lack of talent around him.  There's no question he needs to improve his accuracy, as does every QB in this class.  Allen could use a year on the bench to learn and it could help his talents translate to the NFL.  Stop looking at just stats.  Stats don't tell the whole story.  But that's what this day and age is all about isn't it? Stats stats stats stats stats stats stats

 

So, you're saying he's perfect for Buffalo....

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

All of these QBs need to improve.  All of them have problems in their games that they need to fix and get better at and Allen is no different.  He just has the highest ceiling of all of them IMO.  I hope whoever drafts him allows him to sit and learn.  These other QBs have accuracy issues too, it's not just Allen.  I think he will be fine and people are just overreacting to stats because that's what this day and age is all about...overreacting to stats.

 

Well I am telling you my evaluation is on tape not stats.  It is fine to disagree with me.  This is a game of opinions and I have never had a problem with someone having a different one.  But I am telling you what I see watching him, he has the biggest accuracy issue of the top 6 in the draft to me.  His arm is phenomenal but the accuracy is sub standard in my opinion. 

[Gordio]

 Allen supporting cast was pretty bad.  He was working with walkons at the receiver position. With that being said I would take Allen if by some miracle he is still sitting there when the Bills pick but I would not move up for him & give up all those draft picks.  Way too many question marks.  Bill Parcel's always said if a kid can't complete 60% of his passes in college what makes you think he is going to complete over 60% of his passes in the NFL where the windows are way tighter.  

[TigerJ]

Needs development of his footwork and his anticipation.  The footwork issue is what leads to inaccuracy at times.  The anticipation issue is more troubling to me as we have had two QBs recently who couldn't anticipate very well: EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor.  Both needed to see an open receiver before they felt comfortable letting go of the ball. That meant the receiver had to make his final move before Manuel or Taylor would pull the trigger.  That extra fraction of a second allows defensive backs to close the gap after the receiver has made his move, actually resulting in less separation and making it harder to complete passes.  After having two QBs who couldn't get over that tendency, I'm realoly wary of signing on for a third.

[Nihilarian]

Just now, Gordio said:

 Allen supporting cast was pretty bad.  He was working with walkons at the receiver position. With that being said I would take Allen if by some miracle he is still sitting there when the Bills pick but I would not move up for him & give up all those draft picks.  Way too many question marks.  Bill Parcel's always said if a kid can't complete 60% of his passes in college what makes you think he is going to complete over 60% of his passes in the NFL where the windows are way tighter.  

1

There are real reasons as to why so many NFL talent evaluators have moved the kid to the number one, number two QB in this year's draft. He already has improved his accuracy and touch and that showed in the senior bowl and combine. Allen had a good senior bowl and wowed them at the combine. 

 

Versus a kid like Lamar Jackson who threw one good pass and then threw a bad one and ended up with a very erratic evaluation. 

 

If you read up on Josh Allen you would read about a kid who had a slight build coming into college and recently grew into that big frame. Yes, the kid had a lot more talent around him in 2016 and still only had a 56% completion percentage. The thing is, all that talent left after 2016 and if plays were to be made it was all on the QB to make them as the surrounding talent drop off was staggering. 

 

 

Allen was in effect throwing to a far less talented and experienced team and that kept him from doing what the scouts expected him to do and that was to dominate at his level of competition. 

 

If you read about what his head coach said about him,

 

 

“He’s been ultra-competitive, and it’s been whatever we’ve needed him to do,” Bohl said. “You look at our margins of victory, within our conference, on the Mountain [division] side, they’ve been pretty slim. And he’s been very resourceful, whether it’s running it or throwing it. And he’s done a really good job taking care of the football.”

Bohl said that Allen has accomplished the goals the two had set in order to polish what everyone conceded was a very raw game at the beginning of this calendar year. He spent time on his mechanics, dedicated himself to watching tape, and traveled to the Manning Passing Academy to try and glean what he could from other quarterbacks.

As a result, Bohl’s feeling is that Allen’s playing the position, rather than going out there and just playing, which is what he did last year to give birth to a style that made him a trick-shot thrower and YouTube superstar."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/14/josh-allen-wyoming-2018-nfl-draft-top-small-school-prospects

 

 

 

[CEN-CAL17]

Beane already said it.... if they have a guy top 10 and he makes it out, you have to think about moving up to get him....

 

i think thats the plan.  I would believe the FO will have Rosen, Darnold, Allen and Mayfield in their top 10.

 

I think if you see any of those guys make it out of the top 10 the Bills will pounce. And only having to give up 1 of the 2 1st round picks and probably a 2nd and a pick next year.

 

I truly think one of those guys slips, they always do. But all 4 of those guys will go top 15.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

pass

[prissythecat]

There is a new "Not with a 10 foot pole thread"  where a lot of folks are saying they wouldn't touch this guy 

 

 

 

 

 

[billieve420]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

Two, three years...really? Where do you guys get this stuff? I can see a team delaying from starting him on opening day so he can fully learn the offense and scheme while getting his NFL timing down due to the speed of the NFL. However, I could also see a team starting him right away depending on how quickly he picks things up.

 

The kid played in a pro-style offense at Wyoming which means he is experienced under center. He has good footwork and a very efficient release and he puts a lot of velocity on the ball. 

 

Didn't have great numbers the last two seasons but that may be more due to the talent he was working with than any comment on his ability. 

 

The difference between Josh Allen and Sam Darnold was the talent surrounding both players. Allen had very little talent and carried the entire offense on his shoulders. How many players will the NFL see this year coming out of Wyoming besides Allen...exactly! 

 

From USC besides Darnold the fumbler, three. Although ten USC underclassman were seeking NFL draft evaluations this year. 

 

The talent, the coaches, the schemes on the teams surrounding  USC, UCLA and big school QBs enables them to put up such great numbers while having great success in college.

 

Let me ask this. How many of those greatly talented USC QB's have achieved great success in the NFL? 

 

 

 

How many guys came into the NFL from North Dakota State University when Wentz was drafted? 

 

It is still a big jump from the Mountain West conference to the NFL. Allen did not dominate in a lower level of competition like Wentz did and is not as polished coming out. So he is definitely not ready to start year 1. Blame the talent around him but still does not excuse the fact that he did not play well. Learning a NFL playbook and new system is all going to take time. I think he has the highest ceiling of all the QBs coming out but also the biggest bust factor. He needs to be paired with a QB like Brees in New Orleans someone he can learn under while he acclimates to the NFL. Whether that takes 1, 2, or 3 years doesn't matter because he won't be ready to start day 1.

 

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, billieve420 said:

 

How many guys came into the NFL from North Dakota State University when Wentz was drafted? 

 

It is still a big jump from the Mountain West conference to the NFL. Allen did not dominate in a lower level of competition like Wentz did and is not as polished coming out. So he is definitely not ready to start year 1. Blame the talent around him but still does not excuse the fact that he did not play well. Learning a NFL playbook and new system is all going to take time. I think he has the highest ceiling of all the QBs coming out but also the biggest bust factor. He needs to be paired with a QB like Brees in New Orleans someone he can learn under while he acclimates to the NFL. Whether that takes 1, 2, or 3 years doesn't matter because he won't be ready to start day 1.

 

2

I wrote about the reasons why Allen didn't dominate the lower level of competition and his stats were more about the lack of quality talent around him over any comment on his ability.

 

No QB can do it by himself! Go back and look at the 2014 Atlanta Falcons in which Matt Ryan played in all 16 games and Julio Jones played in 15 and yet the Falcons went 6-10 that season. Why did a known franchise QB with quality talent around him fail to dominate? Probably because he was running for his life most of that year. Same thing with Allen only no Julio Jones at WR. Allen his last year had no receiver over 600 yards and no RB over 500 yards and yet carried his team to an 8-5 record. 

 

How did Allen play in the Senior Bowl where the talent on the defense he faced was far superior to anything he had faced previously? The fact is he played very well against some of the top competition in the nation. He won't need 2, 3 years of bench time. 

 

 

If Allen somehow falls past the first six then Bills fans should prepare themselves for a Buffalo Bills trade up between seven and ten. I'm not saying the kid will be the next Big Ben or Arron Rodgers because I don't know that he will. What I do know is that many NFL player evaluators now have this kid as their number one, number two QB. 

 

What I also know is Buffalo still has blue-collar roots that love a big, strong, tough QB like Jim Kelly with an arm that some scouts say they have never seen the like of...

 

READ THIS!

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2762483-is-josh-allens-offseason-improvement-enough-to-solidify-spot-as-drafts-top-qb

 

 

[BuffaLoko]

17 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I think he needs about 2 years playing behind someone.  I agree, there is no way he will improve by being thrown onto the field.  

 

Wentz had a 64.1 college completion percentage v. Allen's 56.2.  

On the other hand, Wenz had a few slumps in his first season in NFL...

[billieve420]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

I wrote about the reasons why Allen didn't dominate the lower level of competition and his stats were more about the lack of quality talent around him over any comment on his ability.

 

No QB can do it by himself! Go back and look at the 2014 Atlanta Falcons in which Matt Ryan played in all 16 games and Julio Jones played in 15 and yet the Falcons went 6-10 that season. Why did a known franchise QB with quality talent around him fail to dominate? Probably because he was running for his life most of that year. Same thing with Allen only no Julio Jones at WR. Allen his last year had no receiver over 600 yards and no RB over 500 yards and yet carried his team to an 8-5 record. 

 

How did Allen play in the Senior Bowl where the talent on the defense he faced was far superior to anything he had faced previously? The fact is he played very well against some of the top competition in the nation. He won't need 2, 3 years of bench time. 

 

 

If Allen somehow falls past the first six then Bills fans should prepare themselves for a Buffalo Bills trade up between seven and ten. I'm not saying the kid will be the next Big Ben or Arron Rodgers because I don't know that he will. What I do know is that many NFL player evaluators now have this kid as their number one, number two QB. 

 

What I also know is Buffalo still has blue-collar roots that love a big, strong, tough QB like Jim Kelly with an arm that some scouts say they have never seen the like of...

 

READ THIS!

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2762483-is-josh-allens-offseason-improvement-enough-to-solidify-spot-as-drafts-top-qb

 

 

 

The senior bowl where he look terrible in the first half and they had to bring him back out in the 2nd half to allow him to make some plays? Kyle Lauletta threw for 200 and 3 tds does that mean he is going to be any good. 

 

Inaccurate QBs get eaten up by the NFL. EJ Manuel was big and strong as well where did that get him. No one is denying that Allen doesn't have a god given physical talent you can't teach but doesn't mean he is going to be successful. If you want him to have any shot you need to keep him on the bench until he is ready to take over. I think it is going to take longer for him than say a guy like Rosen to get up to speed. You better have a system and QB coach worth a damn who is going to develop him as a passer because he is still very raw. 

 

I am not going to bump him up because of how he looked at the combine. Guy looks good in shorts doesn't mean once the live bullets start flying he is going to be able to perform the same.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2018 by billieve420

[The Now Moment]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well I am telling you my evaluation is on tape not stats.  It is fine to disagree with me.  This is a game of opinions and I have never had a problem with someone having a different one.  But I am telling you what I see watching him, he has the biggest accuracy issue of the top 6 in the draft to me.  His arm is phenomenal but the accuracy is sub standard in my opinion. 

Yup, I disagree. 

[jrober38]

Josh Allen is a terrible football player. He shouldn't get picked before the 4th round.

 

Guys like him have no history of success in the NFL over the past 20 years. 

[Mat68]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

Josh Allen is a terrible football player. He shouldn't get picked before the 4th round.

 

Guys like him have no history of success in the NFL over the past 20 years. 

Farve was a very similar type of player. Stafford, and Culter also come to mind.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Mat68

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Farve was a very similar type of player. Stafford, and Culter also come to mind.

 

No one ever questioned Stafford or Cutler's accuracy. Farve played in college 26 years ago. 

 

Guys like Allen, whose scouting reports openly question his accuracy, never work in the NFL. You don't go from being an inaccurate QB in the Mountain West Conference to an accurate one in the NFL. It simply doesn't happen. 

 

Whoever drafts Allen will get fired in 1-2 years. His accuracy and lack of feel for the game will not result in him being a successful NFL QB. He's the exact same prospect as EJ Manuel or Jake Locker. That's what you're drafting. 

[BigBuff423]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

I wrote about the reasons why Allen didn't dominate the lower level of competition and his stats were more about the lack of quality talent around him over any comment on his ability.

 

No QB can do it by himself! Go back and look at the 2014 Atlanta Falcons in which Matt Ryan played in all 16 games and Julio Jones played in 15 and yet the Falcons went 6-10 that season. Why did a known franchise QB with quality talent around him fail to dominate? Probably because he was running for his life most of that year. Same thing with Allen only no Julio Jones at WR. Allen his last year had no receiver over 600 yards and no RB over 500 yards and yet carried his team to an 8-5 record. 

 

How did Allen play in the Senior Bowl where the talent on the defense he faced was far superior to anything he had faced previously? The fact is he played very well against some of the top competition in the nation. He won't need 2, 3 years of bench time. 

 

 

If Allen somehow falls past the first six then Bills fans should prepare themselves for a Buffalo Bills trade up between seven and ten. I'm not saying the kid will be the next Big Ben or Arron Rodgers because I don't know that he will. What I do know is that many NFL player evaluators now have this kid as their number one, number two QB. 

 

What I also know is Buffalo still has blue-collar roots that love a big, strong, tough QB like Jim Kelly with an arm that some scouts say they have never seen the like of...

 

READ THIS!

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2762483-is-josh-allens-offseason-improvement-enough-to-solidify-spot-as-drafts-top-qb

 

 

 

Regarding the bolded statement, I was actually going to start a brand new thread about this very thing. Because, I'm not convinced Beane and company want to give up a king's ransom for anyone, including a QB. I'm also not particularly sold on them being as "hot" for Rosen as it's been reported and Darnold has too many fundamental issues I just don't think the Bills like. If Allen makes it past the Jets, I do think the Bills look in the 7 to 10 range for any the major 4 QBs - and Allen certainly has the greatest potential. The trade with KC last year was moving from 27th to 10th and Bills received the 27th, a 3rd in the same Draft, and of course 2018 1st. 

 

The Bills to move to 10, would have 21/22 which is better than a 3rd and following year's 1st - and can probably sweeten the deal with Glenn or someone else and a 4th. IF, that's the price, THEN I think Beane could make the move because he still keeps his two 2nds and by then will probably have traded Tyrod or others for more picks. 

25 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

 

The senior bowl where he look terrible in the first half and they had to bring him back out in the 2nd half to allow him to make some plays? Kyle Lauletta threw for 200 and 3 tds does that mean he is going to be any good. 

 

Inaccurate QBs get eaten up by the NFL. EJ Manuel was big and strong as well where did that get him. No one is denying that Allen doesn't have a god given physical talent you can't teach but doesn't mean he is going to be successful. If you want him to have any shot you need to keep him on the bench until he is ready to take over. I think it is going to take longer for him than say a guy like Rosen to get up to speed. You better have a system and QB coach worth a damn who is going to develop him as a passer because he is still very raw. 

 

I am not going to bump him up because of how he looked at the combine. Guy looks good in shorts doesn't mean once the live bullets start flying he is going to be able to perform the same.

 

 

 

To be fair to him, what kind of coaching did he have as a Rookie and then for two years that followed?? Doug and his band of idiots....

 

I am one who truly believes Coaching makes a world of difference in the NFL (no surprise) but I mean really the defining characteristic of the teams that succeed and the ones that don't. You can look at QB and coaching as the two greatest separators from the haves and have nots....EJ with a better QB coach, better HC, and better OC - and while I doubt he's being fitted for a gold jacket, he's probably still a starter and playing well enough, like an Andy Dalton type. 

 

I have so much more faith in this FO and this coaching staff, that if they believe so strongly as to trade UP for Josh Allen, then they know what they're getting, believe they can transform his potential into reality, and will design and scheme a way to make him successful. I believe that. 

[billieve420]

5 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Regarding the bolded statement, I was actually going to start a brand new thread about this very thing. Because, I'm not convinced Beane and company want to give up a king's ransom for anyone, including a QB. I'm also not particularly sold on them being as "hot" for Rosen as it's been reported and Darnold has too many fundamental issues I just don't think the Bills like. If Allen makes it past the Jets, I do think the Bills look in the 7 to 10 range for any the major 4 QBs - and Allen certainly has the greatest potential. The trade with KC last year was moving from 27th to 10th and Bills received the 27th, a 3rd in the same Draft, and of course 2018 1st. 

 

The Bills to move to 10, would have 21/22 which is better than a 3rd and following year's 1st - and can probably sweeten the deal with Glenn or someone else and a 4th. IF, that's the price, THEN I think Beane could make the move because he still keeps his two 2nds and by then will probably have traded Tyrod or others for more picks. 

 

To be fair to him, what kind of coaching did he have as a Rookie and then for two years that followed?? Doug and his band of idiots....

 

I am one who truly believes Coaching makes a world of difference in the NFL (no surprise) but I mean really the defining characteristic of the teams that succeed and the ones that don't. You can look at QB and coaching as the two greatest separators from the haves and have nots....EJ with a better QB coach, better HC, and better OC - and while I doubt he's being fitted for a gold jacket, he's probably still a starter and playing well enough, like an Andy Dalton type. 

 

I have so much more faith in this FO and this coaching staff, that if they believe so strongly as to trade UP for Josh Allen, then they know what they're getting, believe they can transform his potential into reality, and will design and scheme a way to make him successful. I believe that. 

 

We have a new OC and a holdover QB coach from last year. Neither of which have shown they can develop a QB. I would be worried about Allen even more so if he ended up in Buffalo than I would if he ended up in New Orleans with Sean Payton. Buffalo has not proven they can develop a QB and I would rather draft someone pro ready who doesn't have those questions surrounding him especially if I am going to make a major move to trade up. 

[BigBuff423]

16 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

 

We have a new OC and a holdover QB coach from last year. Neither of which have shown they can develop a QB. I would be worried about Allen even more so if he ended up in Buffalo than I would if he ended up in New Orleans with Sean Payton. Buffalo has not proven they can develop a QB and I would rather draft someone pro ready who doesn't have those questions surrounding him especially if I am going to make a major move to trade up. 

 

Then you're not Drafting ANY of this year's crop of QBs...sorry, Rosen needs work, Darnold's footwork is a mess, Baker Mayfield had about 3 yards of clean pocket to throw from on virtually every play - his passes will be batted down when he's forced to stay in the pocket and he's not an otherwise perfect tactician either, Rudolph is a great QB and I think he does well in the right system but he needs to strengthen his arm a bit and learn an NFL Offense, and Jackson has is own set of warts....no QB is going to be "pro ready"...also, if you don't give the Bills staff the chance to make their mark, they never will.....you have to give Daboll and McDermott and his staff a chance to truly develop the QB....that's the difference. Look at Philly; Wentz was the guy, but he needed to be coached as did Goff...Jameis has fallen off because he hasn't had that effectively....any young QB needs to be developed. 

[Hebert19]

I pray this is wrong...hes for bust written all over him. 

[ColoradoBills]

17 minutes ago, billieve420 said:

 

We have a new OC and a holdover QB coach from last year. Neither of which have shown they can develop a QB. I would be worried about Allen even more so if he ended up in Buffalo than I would if he ended up in New Orleans with Sean Payton. Buffalo has not proven they can develop a QB and I would rather draft someone pro ready who doesn't have those questions surrounding him especially if I am going to make a major move to trade up. 

 

You are absolutely correct about the Bill's and QB development.  The answer is to change that.

We are bringing in a rookie QB, that is almost 100% certain.  All hints are the rookie will sit while a vet leads the team until we would

be out of the playoff hunt at minimum.

 

I think it would be wise for the Bill's to consider signing Josh McCown right at the start of FA with a possible future coaching opportunity.

With all the other free agents and draft QB's McCown will only cost about 2-3 million tops on a 1 year.

This move should not have anything to do with TT or another vet coming in.

 

The Bill's go into camp with McCown, Peterman, Rookie and the Vet.

 

As to Allen, if he falls and the others are taken, I think you got to consider it.  Rookie contracts don't cost that much.

We should of dumped EJ a year earlier for another top rookie.  The loss of a few million on a QB means nothing when looking for a keeper.