26CornerBlitz Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 NFL free agency: Why Bills signing DT Star Lotulelei would be an epic mistakeThere’s been a lot of speculation regarding Buffalo potentially signing Carolina Panthers nose tackle Star Lotulelei. Sure, he was a starter in Sean McDermott’s defense. But after a stellar rookie season, Lotulelei has seen his play decline drastically while his linemate, Kawann Short, dominated and earned a big contract.As a rookie, Lotulelei looked like a gem, recording 42 tackles, three sacks, nine tackles for loss and four quarterback hits. He generated 24 quarterback pressures and registered a staggering 37 run stops, per Pro Football Focus.However, in the last three seasons combined, he’s recorded 73 tackles, 11 tackles for loss, 6.5 sacks and 12 quarterback hits. He registered 54 pressures and made only 32 run stops – five fewer than his rookie total – in that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Yeah, I thought Lotulelei was a lock as an offseason target, but I've seen other articles indicating the same negative feelings towards his play. Maybe that means we can get him on a cheaper prove-it type deal and have him battle it out with a rookie? Williams/Lotulelei/Nnadi in the 2nd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 The counter-point is ... when a player is a dominant force inside, defenses adjust and their stats take a hit. Haven't watched the Panthers much, but you'd bet he was doubled and schemed against significantly after a monster first year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Rigotz said: The counter-point is ... when a player is a dominant force inside, defenses adjust and their stats take a hit. Haven't watched the Panthers much, but you'd bet he was doubled and schemed against significantly after a monster first year. Playing next to Kawann Short should have boosted his production. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 i hope we don't spend the money on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I'm fine bringing him in cheap, but it seems like he still has the reputation of being a good player despite his recent play and that scares me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 How much is he projected to get? He would still be a huge upgrade to what we have now. McBeane doesn’t seem like the type to overpay just to do it so I assume they would take him on a reasonable deal. If not, other fish in the sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DCOrange said: I'm fine bringing him in cheap, but it seems like he still has the reputation of being a good player despite his recent play and that scares me. Cheap would be like $12 million. His age is the only thing that turns me off. If I'm the Bills I'm saving my money and building a young team this year. Jump into free agency next season. We will be loaded with cap space. 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: How much is he projected to get? He would still be a huge upgrade to what we have now. McBeane doesn’t seem like the type to overpay just to do it so I assume they would take him on a reasonable deal. If not, other fish in the sea. At least $12 million per. Edited February 22, 2018 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 dontari poe is the guy i want 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: Cheap would be like $12 million. His age is the only thing that turns me off. If I'm the Bills I'm saving my money and building a young team this year. Jump into free agency next season. We will be loaded with cap space. At least $12 million per. I don't think he'll get anywhere close to $12 mil per year but we'll see. If anyone touches that, it'll be a mistake. The last projection I had seen for him was around $8 million per year. Edited February 22, 2018 by DCOrange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: Cheap would be like $12 million. His age is the only thing that turns me off. If I'm the Bills I'm saving my money and building a young team this year. Jump into free agency next season. We will be loaded with cap space. At least $12 million per. How could he get that much if his film isn’t good. Cleveland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirginiaMike Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 29 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Playing next to Kawann Short should have boosted his production. Maybe playing next to Star boosted Short's numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 33 minutes ago, Rigotz said: The counter-point is ... when a player is a dominant force inside, defenses adjust and their stats take a hit. Haven't watched the Panthers much, but you'd bet he was doubled and schemed against significantly after a monster first year. This is the Sammy argument. Stars make plays no matter what. I don’t buy these excuses anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, VirginiaMike said: Maybe playing next to Star boosted Short's numbers? Even ignoring the raw numbers people look to like sacks, systems like PFF say Star was awful this past season and below average the two years before that. Short has been elite every year along with all the other guys that "demand the O-Line's attention". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 27 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: At least $12 million per. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Please no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I have to agree with this, and more to the point: DT is one of the deepest positions in a Draft the Bills have a wealth of picks. Use 2 on DT and pick a DT in FA, ala Poe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I would rather spend the money on Ziggy Ansah if he doesn't get tagged. Edge rushers are more important that DTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, DCOrange said: Even ignoring the raw numbers people look to like sacks, systems like PFF say Star was awful this past season and below average the two years before that. Short has been elite every year along with all the other guys that "demand the O-Line's attention". So again I ask how he is going to get a huge contract somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Is the same Rob Quinn who said the Bills "failed upward" by, among other moves, trading Ragland and Cardale Jones--thus "seemingly forgetting about the present and building up for the future"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said: Cheap would be like $12 million. His age is the only thing that turns me off. If I'm the Bills I'm saving my money and building a young team this year. Jump into free agency next season. We will be loaded with cap space. At least $12 million per. 12 million isn't even close. Spotrac projects 6M per for 4 years. He has been a failure in Carolina. I think people see the need and a cool looking gargantuan that could fill the hole but don't even know what he brings or fails to bring to the table. Edited February 22, 2018 by Commonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I think McD/Beane will be the first call he gets and they will set the market for him. It'll be hard for anyone to pay a guy more than his previous coach (who saw him at his very best) is willing to go. Though, in today's world, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I would like to Bills to look at Bennie Logan from the Chiefs instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 http://www.carolinahuddle.com/2017/08/28/carolina-panthers-star-lotulelei/ So, How Important Is Star Lotulelei? Star Lotulelei may not be the kind of guy with double-digit sacks each season. He may not even register a sack on a QB over a stretch of multiple games. However, what he does on the field deserves recognition on its own. For the defense, Star helps clog up double teams and triple teams, allowing for multiple lanes to open up and linebackers/pass rushers to flourish. He does the dirty work while the rest of the defense cleans up. With Star’s immense size and strength, teams understand they have to be very weary of Star or else he will punish. Without Star, guys such as Kawann Short, Mario Addison, Thomas Davis, and even Luke Kuechly would not have the same amount of success they’ve had with him. Guys who do what Star does do not come everyday. If the Panthers want to continue having a dominant defensive line and linebackers, Star is a priority for next season. So, how important is Star Lotulelei? Very important. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaneBandit Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I'm not gonna throw the ole "on the cheap" phrase out there but I'm hoping for a reasonable priced run stuffer in free agency and the penetrating disruptor in the draft...... But who knows how it will play out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 38 minutes ago, aristocrat said: dontari poe is the guy i want Usually someone would point out that Poe is better suited for NT in a 3-4 but he actually played over 70% of the snaps for Atlanta last year and they run a 4-3. Stats-wise he had his best year since 2013. But the reasons the Chiefs let him go in 2016 were because his asking price was quite high plus he's had a consistent back injury to deal with for a few years now. I don't know if he's an FA this season or not but I can't see McBeane viewing and valuing him as anything more than a rotational DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Is the same Rob Quinn who said the Bills "failed upward" by, among other moves, trading Ragland and Cardale Jones--thus "seemingly forgetting about the present and building up for the future"? I'm not sure but Cover1 also wrote a puff piece on Ragland. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 Star Lotulelei "ready for next chapter" if it's not in Carolina “I don't think there's a whole lot of people that can do what I can do,” Lotulelei said. “The physicality and intelligence that I bring, I don't think there's a whole lot of people that have that combination. Like I said, I'm not worried about it. I know I'll find a job, if it's here or somewhere else.”But since stats do matter at least somewhat, it’s worth noting Lotulelei’s dipped after a stellar debut. He's averaged 24.8 tackles over his past four seasons after registering 42 as a rookie. And as Lotulelei’s 11.5 career sacks attest, he’s not an elite pass rusher like fellow 2013 defensive tackle draftee Kawann Short. But while many speculate 2016 first-round pick Vernon Butler can just replace Lotulelei, they’re not nearly the same player. Lotulelei is more classic nose tackle; Butler is more like Short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Playing next to Kawann Short should have boosted his production. I guess you could argue that playing next to Lotulelei boosted Kawann Short's production instead. I did not watch them close enough this year to know if it is true, but it is possible. This quote from the article Royale posted says as much: " He does the dirty work while the rest of the defense cleans up. With Star’s immense size and strength, teams understand they have to be very weary [sic] of Star or else he will punish. Without Star, guys such as Kawann Short, Mario Addison, Thomas Davis, and even Luke Kuechly would not have the same amount of success they’ve had with him." Edited February 22, 2018 by buffaloboyinATL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 If we stay at 21-22, please just give me Vita Vea with one of those picks. I want him more than any prospect in this draft that isn't a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: If we stay at 21-22, please just give me Vita Vea with one of those picks. I want him more than any prospect in this draft that isn't a QB. We need at least 2 DTs. I would like a veteran to go with a rookie to help with the transition. If Kyle comes back I would like to see him in a reduced role mainly just rushing the passer. Edited February 22, 2018 by billieve420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Has Quinn's writing gotten any better? The only things I've read he's written lately are all the shots he takes at other reporters in their timelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Give me some Payne!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: I guess you could argue that playing next to Lotulelei boosted Kawann Short's production instead. I did not watch them close enough this year to know if it is true, but it is possible. This quote from the article Royale posted says as much: " He does the dirty work while the rest of the defense cleans up. With Star’s immense size and strength, teams understand they have to be very weary [sic] of Star or else he will punish. Without Star, guys such as Kawann Short, Mario Addison, Thomas Davis, and even Luke Kuechly would not have the same amount of success they’ve had with him." I understand his role, but that doesn't excuse the precipitous drop in production since his rookie campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 He will get paid. He's much like Dareus overall. He can disappear for games. I'd not pay him what he wants but he will command it and if we want to upgrade he is one of the best options. The problem is DT's are too highly paid currently. Better off with rag tag UFA's mid tier or rookies and drafting elite LBs if we can't get UFA's. We really need linebackers. Not one starter worth starting on this team as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 31 minutes ago, Commonsense said: 12 million isn't even close. Spotrac projects 6M per for 4 years. He has been a failure in Carolina. I think people see the need and a cool looking gargantuan that could fill the hole but don't even know what he brings or fails to bring to the table. That makes much more sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: That makes much more sense I'd pay him that kind of money if it means not wasting 21/22 on another DT like Vea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) I know McD likes to get his own guys, but i don't think he tends to overvalue them. We rotated a ton at DT this year, and traded our most talented one away for cap relief. I think we'll try to bring back Kyle, and add someone at a lower price point. Keeping dolphus and thornton for depth. Likely not using a 1st for a DT, and maybe drafting one later in the draft maybe? We need so much help at LB and pass rush, that i wouldn't want to see them use a ton of draft capital or cap space on DTs. Edited February 22, 2018 by dneveu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, dneveu said: I know McD likes to get his own guys, but i don't think he tends to overvalue them. We rotated a ton at DT this year, and traded our most talented one away for cap relief. I think we'll try to bring back Kyle, and add someone at a lower price point. Keeping dolphus and thornton for depth. Likely not using a 1st for a DT, and maybe drafting one later in the draft maybe? We need so much help at LB and pass rush, that i wouldn't want to see them use a ton of draft capital or cap space on DTs. It starts with the lines. LBs will look much better behind a dominant front which we are far from. I think we need 2 DTs and a DE opposite Hughes. Hughes hasn't been the same since Mario Williams left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 50 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I think McD/Beane will be the first call he gets and they will set the market for him. It'll be hard for anyone to pay a guy more than his previous coach (who saw him at his very best) is willing to go. Though, in today's world, who knows. McDermott showed that he's willing to make the right choices to make the team better when he fired Dennison. If he thinks he's worth bringing in, he probably is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Just now, billieve420 said: It starts with the lines. LBs will look much better behind a dominant front which we are far from. I think we need 2 DTs and a DE opposite Hughes. Hughes hasn't been the same since Mario Williams left. We don't have a ton of cap room at the moment, and a considerable number of holes. QB1 WR2 RB2 C1 (Groy moves in but who knows how comfortable they are in that) RG1 (ducasse/miller i guess...?) RT1 (mills sucks) LCB1 NCB1 (possibly bring back johnson) MLB1/2 SLB1 DT1/2 LDE1 (depending on what you think of lawson) I don't really think they'll go after any of the top layer of free agents for that reason. They're still remaking the roster the way that they want to see it. If they can bring back williams for another year I think they would. He'll be relatively affordable and is a great leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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