Rodak: Bills Remain Confident in Zay Jones

[McBean]

I look for Zay to have a great bounce back year next season...atleast I hope.

[Maine-iac]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I'm sure TT would love a rookie like Kupp to throw to.  It's worked wonders for turning Goff's career around so far, no?

 

As for "finding WRs", both are completing 62% of their passes.

In all honesty the great difference in minds, offensive or defensive, is how fast they see the solutions and make the changes that produce.  From a personel standpoint Milano and Thompson are two players that stepped on the field and produced yet still took 4 or 5 games to move ahead of their far less productive rivals at their positions.  From a play calling perspective Dennison took way to long to start calling plays that work for his players and then in a game to game break down it wouldn't be a stretch to say Dennison might be the worst screen game coach that has ever called a game.  Chan Gailey would have McCoy putting up old Marshal Faulk numbers.  McVay is just much much faster at producing offense.  Luckily for him he has Phillips to take care of the defense and that has been Buffalo's failure time and time again.  Fix one side of the ball and neglect the other and it usually starts with coaching.

[RoyBatty is alive]

How can anyone with a straight face not admit Zay Jones dropped way too many balls he should have caught.

 

And no I dont even blame him for the alleged drop at the end of the Carolina game, that was a tough catch (not his fault that is assuming Jones was in the right place at the right time)

[26TrapDraw]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....kid will come around.....got the sophomore jinx year out of the way a year early (I HOPE).....probably no one on the planet that feels worse about dropsies after 160 catch season at East Carolina.....

I think so too. He's gonna be a Stevie Johnson type me thinks.

 

[Rob's House]

He wants to spend his entire career in Buffalo. Not sure why.

 

https://buffalofootballbeat.com/2017/12/29/as-a-humbling-first-season-wraps-wr-zay-jones-says-he-wants-to-spend-entire-career-in-buffalo/

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I think this was the same thing they said about Shaq this time last year when they cut his snaps.

 

Zay was the WR that Tyrod had the most experience with for the first half of the season and had really synched up with him but Zay just kept dropping passes.

 

Tyrod put two perfectly lead nine-route bombs on his hands in recent weeks that would have been walk-in TD's for guys like Watkins or Goodwin and not only were they not TD's........they were flat out DROPPED.

 

He had a DB close behind.......but that's half of the problem.........he doesn't separate......you can only throw it where he is and hope he catches it.

 

Awful year for Jones and they would be foolish to pencil him into the top 3 next year...........Josh Reed never got his hands back there is no guarantee that Jones will.  

 

I can't help but refer to him now as "Drop Zone" Jones.

[Jay_Fixit]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

How can anyone with a straight face not admit Zay Jones dropped way too many balls he should have caught.

 

And no I dont even blame him for the alleged drop at the end of the Carolina game, that was a tough catch (not his fault that is assuming Jones was in the right place at the right time)

For a guy who was revered for having “great hands” coming out of college, he definitely looked like he lost confidence early and dropped way too many balls.

 

That being said, a LOT of his “targets” were poorly thrown balls by the poor QB growing the balls to him.

 

If you watched Zay in college (even just  the senior bowl) you can see that this dude has stickum for hands.

 

I expect a big bounce back year from him next season.

 

[aceman_16]

3 hours ago, TigerJ said:

A good share of the difference in production between Kupp and Jones would seem to be the struggle that Tyrod had in finding any of his WRs compared with Jared Goff's blossoming into a prolific QB in his second year.

It is both.  He has dropped a bunch of balls and/or hasnt been where he was supposed to be a few times as well. However, Tyrod is still bad at connecting with ALL of his wide receivers.

 

PS and YES Goff is light years better than Tyrod at that (heck in general)

Edited December 29, 2017 by aceman_16

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Heitz said:

1) Why  does Rodak insist on lying to us!?

 

2)  Goff > Tyrod, all-day, erry'day

 

Why do you think Rodak is lying rather than repeating some version of what he's been told at OBD?

 

[hemma]

If he was allowed to catch balls thrown out of bounds, he'd be > 2,000 yards.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

Zay has definitely dropped too many passes, a number of which should have been catches for sure. 

 

But Tyrod really hasn't done him too many favors either. He's thrown quite a few balls Zay's way that really were not catchable passes, despite what some Tyrod apologists around here might say. 

 

As far as separation, i've seen Zay struggle at times. But I've also seen him get separation only to see Tyrod look his way and not pull the trigger, not look his way at all or just plain overthrow him. So it works both ways...

 

Overall, Zay's first year has been a disappointment. He deserves much of the blame, but there is also blame to go around and Tyrod deserves his share. 

 

Not directed specifically at you, BillsFan4, but I really do loathe the sorting into "apologists/lovers/haters" that takes place here.

TT is what he is.  He's not a top tier QB.  He's not a guy who can put the team on his back and win with his arm.  2015/2016 with a sucktastic D, did show that he can win some games with the right pieces around him, when used in the right way.    Has he looked like crap this year, Yes.  Is part of that how he's being used?  Also Yes.  That really shouldn't make one an "apologist" any more than this:

When I watch a number of other teams with "elite" QB, every game, EVERY SINGLE GAME, I see WR hauling in those "not catchable passes".  the ones they have to come back for, dive to the ground for, jump for, one hand....EVERY SINGLE GAME I see those "really not catchable passes" caught. 

Elite WR, even good WR in the NFL, make some of those catches.  More of those catches than our WR do, and have done for a long time.

[KW95 - JA17]

The same way I have confidence Bruce Jenner is a male today!

[RoyBatty is alive]

13 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

For a guy who was revered for having “great hands” coming out of college, he definitely looked like he lost confidence early and dropped way too many balls.

 

That being said, a LOT of his “targets” were poorly thrown balls by the poor QB growing the balls to him.

 

If you watched Zay in college (even just  the senior bowl) you can see that this dude has stickum for hands.

 

I expect a big bounce back year from him next season.

 

I agree 100%...i think his biggest asset in college were has hands. After that Carolina "drop" in game 2 I think his confidence took a nosedive, he certainly talked as if he lost the game which I think was noble and the right thing to say but not true.  That was a very difficult catch, either he was not at the right spot at the right time or TT was inaccurate with the throw.  I cant blame his hands for dropping that one.

[hondo in seattle]

Peerless Price only had 31 receptions for 393 yards his rookie year.  A few years later, he tallied 94 receptions for 1252 yards. 

 

Some receivers need time to adjust to the NFL and take their skills to the next level.  

 

There's little doubt that Taylor has trouble getting the ball to his WRs.  There's equally little doubt that Zay has been unimpressive.  Both are at fault. 

 

But I'm not ready to give up on Zay just yet.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

56 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

In all honesty the great difference in minds, offensive or defensive, is how fast they see the solutions and make the changes that produce.  From a personel standpoint Milano and Thompson are two players that stepped on the field and produced yet still took 4 or 5 games to move ahead of their far less productive rivals at their positions.  From a play calling perspective Dennison took way to long to start calling plays that work for his players and then in a game to game break down it wouldn't be a stretch to say Dennison might be the worst screen game coach that has ever called a game.  Chan Gailey would have McCoy putting up old Marshal Faulk numbers.  McVay is just much much faster at producing offense.  Luckily for him he has Phillips to take care of the defense and that has been Buffalo's failure time and time again.  Fix one side of the ball and neglect the other and it usually starts with coaching.

 

I agree.  Our OC is inferior.  So it the DC.

 

Goff was awful last year.  Now with better coaches and talent, he's having a turnaround.  I don't think TT is the same type of QB, nor could he be, but I bet if these teams swapped QBs at the start of the season, we would all be moaning about how the Bills should have never let TT go to LA.....

[26CornerBlitz]

For the purposes of comparison.

 

[KD in CA]

He’s a rookie who plays with an inaccurate QB on an offense that struggles to find rhythm.  It’s not surprising he hasn’t found his game yet.

 

Zay is far down the list of issues for the Bills. 

[Bills Pimpin']

Trying to evaluate any wide receiver when Tyrod Taylor is the quarterback is a terrible idea. Even more so when it is a rookie. I actually feel bad for the kid because he has lost a year of his career and will basically be starting over next year with a real QB. If he is going to have trouble doing anything, it is going to be adjusting to a true NFL QB who can read a defense and can make the throws any NFL QB should be able to make. I hope he can overcome the damage Tyrod has done.

[cba fan]

4 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Rodak: Bills remain confident in Zay Jones despite rookie's 'humbling' season

 

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Buffalo Bills wide receiver Zay Jones is tied with Los Angeles Rams receiver Cooper Kupp in having played 712 snaps this season, seventh-most among rookies who play on offense.

 

But the disparity in production between the two has been striking. Kupp, a third-round pick, has 62 catches for 869 yards and five touchdowns. Jones, a second-round pick, has 25 catches for 291 yards and two touchdowns.

 

It has been an underwhelming season for the Bills' 32nd-ranked passing offense, and Jones' disappointing performance has been just one part of the losing equation for offensive coordinator Rick Dennison.

Lets tell it like it is.

 

If Zay was a Whaley holdover before McDerma was in the draft room. He would have been cut long ago, or traded, or inactive most weeks, or on practice squad.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, cba fan said:

Lets tell it like it is.

 

If Zay was a Whaley holdover before McDerma was in the draft room. He would have been cut long ago, or traded, or inactive most weeks, or on practice squad.

 

Funny how Deonte Thompson came in off the street to make contributions to the team immediately and eventually supplant Zay in the starting lineup.  

 

No need to make excuses for Zay. He's been a disappointment and that's on him.   Here's to a better 2018 and beyond. 

[JPP]

4 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Correct if Zay had nobody around him for 5 or 6 yards and could catch balls thrown off target all would be good.

Yes i guess he used his vulcan mind powers to have him drop balls.....yeah thats what it is.....LOL!

[Teddy KGB]

2 hours ago, Maine-iac said:

In the 15 games in which LeSean McCoy, Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods and Charles Clay were all on the field, Taylor has a 64-percent completion rate, throwing for 3,362 yards for 26 touchdowns and just six interceptions. In the 14 games in which one of those players weren’t available, Taylor’s numbers sunk, as he completed just 61.2-percent of his passes for 2,697 yards, throwing only 11 touchdowns and six interceptions.

 

My comment would be that it seems like maybe he needs a decent receiver to throw to.

 

Tyrod with all his weapons and an offseason of practice ??‍♂️?

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MIAuac3WdrQ

 

He had good wideouts and still was meh at best with no shows often. 

 

Just look at poor Marquise Goodwin for god sakes.   

 

Zay will be solid next season when we have a passing attack that reaches nfl standards 

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by Teddy KGB

[klos63]

1 hour ago, hemma said:

If he was allowed to catch balls thrown out of bounds, he'd be > 2,000 yards.

If it's Taylor's fault, why did Jones get demoted?

[Bills Pimpin']

In a few weeks you can ask "If it's all the WR's fault, why did Taylor get fired?"

[RyanC883]

5 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Rodak: Bills remain confident in Zay Jones despite rookie's 'humbling' season

 

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- Buffalo Bills wide receiver Zay Jones is tied with Los Angeles Rams receiver Cooper Kupp in having played 712 snaps this season, seventh-most among rookies who play on offense.

 

But the disparity in production between the two has been striking. Kupp, a third-round pick, has 62 catches for 869 yards and five touchdowns. Jones, a second-round pick, has 25 catches for 291 yards and two touchdowns.

 

It has been an underwhelming season for the Bills' 32nd-ranked passing offense, and Jones' disappointing performance has been just one part of the losing equation for offensive coordinator Rick Dennison.

 

The combo of Dennison and TT is a killer for a WR.  No WR on the Bills can produce.  I haven't lost faith in Zay based upon this year.  

48 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Funny how Deonte Thompson came in off the street to make contributions to the team immediately and eventually supplant Zay in the starting lineup.  

 

No need to make excuses for Zay. He's been a disappointment and that's on him.   Here's to a better 2018 and beyond. 

 

D. Thompson makes a few plays on poorly thrown balls.  His stats are nothing stellar.  He'd be much better also with a quality WR.  So would Benjamin, Clay, and Zay.  Watkins, Woods, and Goodwin! are all having much better seasons without TT.  

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

For the purposes of comparison.

 

 

That's interesting.  What do the highest rated WR's all have in common: a good QB.  Although, I think I'd take JuJu over Kupp or Cole.  

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

He’s a rookie who plays with an inaccurate QB on an offense that struggles to find rhythm.  It’s not surprising he hasn’t found his game yet.

 

Zay is far down the list of issues for the Bills. 

 

 

His bumbled route and subsequent inability to pull in the throw in Carolina was the single most negatively influential play of the Bills 2017 season.

 

If he doesn't trip over his feet there or at least makes the tough catch(catches like that are what got him drafted early in the first place) then it's a game-winning TD and the Bills are in control of their own destiny to win 10 games for the first time in almost two decades.

 

He is down the list of issues but the impact of his poor play has been acutely significant.

[26CornerBlitz]

13 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

The combo of Dennison and TT is a killer for a WR.  No WR on the Bills can produce.  I haven't lost faith in Zay based upon this year.  

 

D. Thompson makes a few plays on poorly thrown balls.  His stats are nothing stellar.  He'd be much better also with a quality WR.  So would Benjamin, Clay, and Zay.  Watkins, Woods, and Goodwin! are all having much better seasons without TT.  

 

That's interesting.  What do the highest rated WR's all have in common: a good QB.  Although, I think I'd take JuJu over Kupp or Cole.  

 

Your argument was just trashed by a rookie WR who has Bortles as his QB. 

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

The combo of Dennison and TT is a killer for a WR.  No WR on the Bills can produce.  I haven't lost faith in Zay based upon this year.  

 

D. Thompson makes a few plays on poorly thrown balls.  His stats are nothing stellar.  He'd be much better also with a quality WR.  So would Benjamin, Clay, and Zay.  Watkins, Woods, and Goodwin! are all having much better seasons without TT.  

 

 

 

Said it before...........Woods and Watkins combined numbers would have been better with Tyrod Taylor this year than they will be with Goff.  

 

Goodwin was an outlier..........I said for years that he was the Bills second most gifted receiver(more talent than Woods or Hogan).

 

He is fast, quick, great body control,  tracks the ball well and catches it with his hands..........just hadn't applied himself or built a football body during his first 3 years collecting paychecks to fund his training for the Olympics.

 

He'd have been a hit with Tyrod this year too.........the nine/comeback combo they had going worked well in 2016 and has been unusable with the lumbering WR's the Bills have fielded for most of 2017............ but the unknown was whether he would just collect the signing bonus and mail it in.......dude doesn't love football.

Edited December 29, 2017 by BADOLBILZ

[paulbills]

Hoo boy, the ineptitude at evaluating WRs on this board is disgustingly evident, no wonder all of our ex WRs are balling out for other teams? You're throwing a R O O K I E wide receiver under the bus for under performing while having a horribly inconsistent QB at the helm, that is totally mind boggling.

 

It used to make me upset to see all of our talent go to other teams and thrive, but after seeing such arrogance on display when "evaluating" a rookie, it honestly makes me laugh, good for Hogan, Woods, Watkins and Goodwin, at least they're not being undervalued!

Edited December 29, 2017 by paulbills

[klos63]

57 minutes ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

In a few weeks you can ask "If it's all the WR's fault, why did Taylor get fired?"

I don't plan on asking that.

14 minutes ago, paulbills said:

Hoo boy, the ineptitude at evaluating WRs on this board is disgustingly evident, no wonder all of our ex WRs are balling out for other teams? You're throwing a R O O K I E wide receiver under the bus for under performing while having a horribly inconsistent QB at the helm, that is totally mind boggling.

 

It used to make me upset to see all of our talent go to other teams and thrive, but after seeing such arrogance on display when "evaluating" a rookie, it honestly makes me laugh, good for Hogan, Woods, Watkins and Goodwin, at least they're not being undervalued!

I'm not giving up on him, I understand rookie WR's often have troubles early on, but the coaching staff demoted him, so there is a little more cause for concern.

[Mr. WEO]

41 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Your argument was just trashed by a rookie WR who has Bortles as his QB. 

 

Winston ain't so great this year either.

[blacklabel]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Ay my god.

 

Enough of this. Zay dropping balls and struggling to get speration is independent of Tyrod. 

 

Not necessarily. Taylor is not an anticipatory passer nor does he attempt very many tight window throws. He's a "see it, throw it" QB which means he usually only pulls the trigger when he can clearly see his guy open. He very rarely throws guys open or throws to a spot where only his receiver has a chance to make a play. WRs do not get separation on every route they run so you can't put it 100% on Zay. It's unrealistic for QBs to expect their receivers to create separation and get open on every single passing down. Taylor has to take those chances once in a while and sling it to a guy who's covered and put it in a spot where his WR has a chance to make a play. 

 

But by the same token, when a receiver does get open and the QB puts it in his range or hits him smack-dab in the hands, he has to catch it. Taylor has that "area code accuracy" as they say. His ball placement isn't always where it should be. Too many times he makes a throw that causes the receiver to either slow up, twist or turn, go up high or dig it out of the dirt to catch it and that takes away yards after catch. It's not very often we see him hit one of his guys in stride. I wholeheartedly believe Taylor's height is a major detriment to his game. The dude just does not see the field well, and I don't mean he doesn't run through his progressions or make the right reads, I mean his height causes his view of the field to be obstructed almost every time he's in the pocket due to the monster OL and DLs in front of him. Also why he gets so many passes smacked back in his face.Taylor would be at his best in an offense with a solid running game (which he's had since he became the starter) and a more vertical passing attack as opposed to the short stuff that Dennison seems to favor. That was kind of their MO in 2015 during the second half of the season when he and Watkins were connecting regularly and the deep ball was one of Taylor's best throws. But this offense just doesn't suit him and they don't really have a field-stretcher at receiver. 

 

Either way, I think Zay will be fine. He seems like the type of kid who will wanna work twice as hard in preparation for next season so he doesn't have a repeat of his rookie year. 

[MDH]

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

He's had drops - don't blame everything on the QB.  He's had uncatchable targets too.

 

I saw a stat the other day that said Zay leads the league in uncatchable target percentage (with a qualifying number of targets of 50). 50% of the balls thrown in Zays direction are uncatchable. I believe Goodwin was second in this list with 47% or so.

 

This doesn’t absolve him from all the drops he’s had, but his lack of production isn’t only on his shoulders.

[BuffaloHokie13]

3 minutes ago, MDH said:

I saw a stat the other day that said Zay leads the league in uncatchable target percentage (with a qualifying number of targets of 50). 50% of the balls thrown in Zays direction are uncatchable. I believe Goodwin was second in this list with 47% or so.

 

This doesn’t absolve him from all the drops he’s had, but his lack of production isn’t only on his shoulders.

 

Why is it just him though? That's the Question. No other WR on our roster has below a 50% catch rate, let alone 50% uncatchable balls.

[Success]

If I started a list of guys who were called busts early in their career who went on to become good or great, it would be significant.

 

I still believe in Zay.  His biggest weakness was his greatest strength in college.  

Edited December 29, 2017 by Success

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

His bumbled route and subsequent inability to pull in the throw in Carolina 

 

Or you could stop peddling your cot nonsense. 

 

At least tt throws a better ball than Gabbert to Brown ?

Edited December 29, 2017 by Teddy KGB

[Bills Pimpin']

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I don't think anyone's giving up on Zay.... but cementing him as the #2 or even #3 on the depth chart next year would be a very careless(and typical Bills) move. 

 

Let him prove hes improved. 

 

They should look for an upgrade via draft or FA. 

Holy shitballs, I agree with Scott!!!!!!!

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, MDH said:

 

I saw a stat the other day that said Zay leads the league in uncatchable target percentage (with a qualifying number of targets of 50). 50% of the balls thrown in Zays direction are uncatchable. I believe Goodwin was second in this list with 47% or so.

 

This doesn’t absolve him from all the drops he’s had, but his lack of production isn’t only on his shoulders.

 

Also mean's hes probably struggled with his route running.  

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

Also mean's hes probably struggled with his route running.  

 

 

No doubt..........the Carolina pass that would have won the game no doubt fell into the uncatchable category........after he stumbled in his route, lost track of where he was and faded to the front pylon instead of the rear pylon.   Still some dedicated knuckleheads on TSW who think that was on Tyrod when the players have said it was on Zay.

 

Been a number of stumbling bumblings in the route tree for Zay.    

 

How about the deep sideline ball in Atlanta?    That was one of the uglier pieces of wide receiving you will ever see.

[Bad Things]

Zay will wind up being a total stud.