Tate's Poor Kickoff Returns

[BigDingus]

I've been going back & forth on whether this is worth a thread, but every game I get more & more ticked off that this hasn't been addressed by the coaching staff.

Can someone at OBD tell Brandon Tate to NOT take the ball out of the endzone? It seems like several times each game he hurts our field position quite a bit, setting back an already weak offense even further. I'd rather see him kneel 100% of the time & start at the 25 yard line than take it out every time HOPING he breaks away for a big return, only to get stuffed at the 15. Just last week he averaged 12 yards a return   

For the year, he's averaging around 19.8 yards a return, and considering how often he returns it from the endzone (or right outside endzone, instead of letting the ball bounce in), that puts us further back than had he just knelt down. He hasn't had a TD on a kickoff return since 2010, in 8 seasons he's only had less total yards twice, he's averaging his lowest career return average ever (previous low was 22.1), and his longest of the year was 29 yards. In fact, he's only had 5 total returns of 25 yards or more all year.

Every game I forget about it until it happens...then it happens again....and again. I keep wondering why the heck someone doesn't tell him this is hurting the team! Does anyone else share similar concerns & frustrations?

[The Now Moment]

The thing is, I don't want the ball bouncing into the endzone.  A lot of the kicks he's returned have been from outside the enzone.  I don't want that ball bouncing, who knows what kind of funky bounce could happen.  It may not even go into the endzone, it could stay outside and then you're screwed even more.  He needs to return those but he just hasn't done it well this year.  I hope he improves or we will be looking for someone else to return those kicks.  

 

I expect to have a new returner next year.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

I've been going back & forth on whether this is worth a thread, but every game I get more & more ticked off that this hasn't been addressed by the coaching staff.

Can someone at OBD tell Brandon Tate to NOT take the ball out of the endzone? It seems like several times each game he hurts our field position quite a bit, setting back an already weak offense even further. I'd rather see him kneel 100% of the time & start at the 25 yard line than take it out every time HOPING he breaks away for a big return, only to get stuffed at the 15. Just last week he averaged 12 yards a return   

For the year, he's averaging around 19.8 yards a return, and considering how often he returns it from the endzone (or right outside endzone, instead of letting the ball bounce in), that puts us further back than had he just knelt down. He hasn't had a TD on a kickoff return since 2010, in 8 seasons he's only had less total yards twice, he's averaging his lowest career return average ever (previous low was 22.1), and his longest of the year was 29 yards. In fact, he's only had 5 total returns of 25 yards or more all year.

Every game I forget about it until it happens...then it happens again....and again. I keep wondering why the heck someone doesn't tell him this is hurting the team! Does anyone else share similar concerns & frustrations?

 

....yup....Reilly is riding the pine because he is not a ST'er.....you mean to tell me for one damn game he can't be activated and find someone to fill in on ST duties?...

[familykwi]

If his performance is that poor, they should consider a replacement that has a chance of doing more.  He may have been brought in to be the return guy, but if he's not getting the job done...

 

More importantly are his situational choices.  Late in a game, with little time he not only fails to get the ball to the 25, he uses up precious seconds additionally.

 

It always irritates me when I, the lay person on my couch, NOT getting paid as a professional has more sense than players on the field.

[jaybee]

Well, there are 10 other guys on the field and an ST coach.  Easy to point a finger at Tate but who really knows what the problem is.

Edited December 21, 2017 by jaybee

[RobH063]

I could be wrong but during the opening kickoff in last weeks game against the Dolphins, it appeared that that ball was going out of bounds but Tate grabbed it and returned it. He got to the 18-19 yard line. If he let it go, they would have been on the 35 yard line.

[Sig1Hunter]

9 minutes ago, RobH063 said:

I could be wrong but during the opening kickoff in last weeks game against the Dolphins, it appeared that that ball was going out of bounds but Tate grabbed it and returned it. He got to the 18-19 yard line. If he let it go, they would have been on the 35 yard line.

He could have fielded that kick with his foot out of bounds and given us the ball at the 40.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Sig1Hunter

[BigDingus]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

The thing is, I don't want the ball bouncing into the endzone.  A lot of the kicks he's returned have been from outside the enzone.  I don't want that ball bouncing, who knows what kind of funky bounce could happen.  It may not even go into the endzone, it could stay outside and then you're screwed even more.  He needs to return those but he just hasn't done it well this year.  I hope he improves or we will be looking for someone else to return those kicks.  

 

I expect to have a new returner next year.  

 

I'm talking about right near the goal line where the ball is definitely going into the endzone, or where he's already in the endzone. If it's coming down at the 5 yard line, I get it. But I'm talking specifically right in the endzone when he could simply kneel. And in situations where field position is key or time left on the clock is crucial, it really is a killer.

 

Maybe it's after the defense was on the field forever, and they finally buckle down to hold the opponent to a FG. Then they kick the ball off & and he returns it to the 17. The offense is already pretty bad, but considering we haven't had a single drive all year (at least as of the last game I believe) where we've driven the ball from inside our own 25 for a TD, that almost guarantees a punt in the future. Or late in the game where we need to conserve time AND have as best field position as possible, why risk both and put even more pressure on the offense to gain more yards and with less time to work with?

 

4 minutes ago, jaybee said:

Well, there are 10 other guys on the field and an ST coach.  Easy to point a finger at Tate but who really knows what the problem is.

 

True, and that's why I'm wondering why something hasn't been said to Tate or the coaches haven't gone with somebody else. Either way, Tate still deserves a huge portion of the blame. When the ball is being kicked to him, and he's going to be the receiver, he makes the choice and the play. He can choose to kneel it, let it go into the endzone, or return it. He opts to return it in bad situations. On top of that, he doesn't return it WELL. That's the other half of the equation. 

If he was breaking big plays or at least averaging 23-25 yards a return, I could almost understand. If he had a TD since 2010 I could almost see why he'd risk it. But when you haven't had a return for over 29 yards all year,  haven't had a TD for 7 straight seasons, are averaging 19 yards a return, AND your BEST returns for the year are 27, 25, 29, 26, 25, that's bad.

And like I said, those are his BEST returns. They've directly hurt us in multiple games, and that cannot be understated or ignored imo. We would've been better off if he had kneeled 100% of the time the ball was received in the endzone, especially late in games.

2 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

He could have fielded that kick with his foot out of bounds and given us the ball at the 40.

 

That would've taken too much awareness of the situation, something I'm not sure Tate has given how he seems willing to return the ball in desperate situations where we NEED the clock & field position.

[LABILLBACKER]

Other teams know that he's currently a mediocre return man. They are instructed to try and kick it between the 5 and goal line. Belichick does this all the time if he feels the returner is weak....

[Buffalo716]

Sometimes I wish he would take the knee but you can't score if you don't try. 

 

Tate has been an electric returner at times in his career

 

the Bills sit comfortably average at 16th in average yards per return. Can be better , can be worse

 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/returning/sort/yardsPerKickReturn/position/defense

 

[JerseyBills]

I wonder this too.. If that ball is an inch in the EZ, I'd like to see Tate kneel Everytime, it seems 95% of the time he barely gets to the 20. He did have a nice reception last week,which should have resulted in a TD drive, he has value but he's extremely underwhelming at kickoff returns. 

 

Other than kickoff returns I've been extremely satisfied with the ST

[BillsFan130]

Really annoys me as well. Has he ever gotten it past the 25? lol 

[freeagentqb]

Lets not forget the occasional penalty which sets us back further.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, BigDingus said:

I've been going back & forth on whether this is worth a thread, but every game I get more & more ticked off that this hasn't been addressed by the coaching staff.

Can someone at OBD tell Brandon Tate to NOT take the ball out of the endzone? It seems like several times each game he hurts our field position quite a bit, setting back an already weak offense even further. I'd rather see him kneel 100% of the time & start at the 25 yard line than take it out every time HOPING he breaks away for a big return, only to get stuffed at the 15. Just last week he averaged 12 yards a return   

For the year, he's averaging around 19.8 yards a return, and considering how often he returns it from the endzone (or right outside endzone, instead of letting the ball bounce in), that puts us further back than had he just knelt down. He hasn't had a TD on a kickoff return since 2010, in 8 seasons he's only had less total yards twice, he's averaging his lowest career return average ever (previous low was 22.1), and his longest of the year was 29 yards. In fact, he's only had 5 total returns of 25 yards or more all year.

Every game I forget about it until it happens...then it happens again....and again. I keep wondering why the heck someone doesn't tell him this is hurting the team! Does anyone else share similar concerns & frustrations?

Not really a fan of his. He takes a lot of chances fielding punts that he shouldn't, doesn't seem like a real threat to take it to the house. I see why he was deactivated a few games early in the season. 

 

I would hope the position is upgraded in the off season. I will add, however, I like what he has done with his limited opportunity as a WR. Made the one awesome play that lit the team up and a couple other solid grabs.

[jr1]

Reilly had 2 kick returns in college

[The Now Moment]

1 hour ago, BigDingus said:

 

I'm talking about right near the goal line where the ball is definitely going into the endzone, or where he's already in the endzone. If it's coming down at the 5 yard line, I get it. But I'm talking specifically right in the endzone when he could simply kneel. And in situations where field position is key or time left on the clock is crucial, it really is a killer.

 

Maybe it's after the defense was on the field forever, and they finally buckle down to hold the opponent to a FG. Then they kick the ball off & and he returns it to the 17. The offense is already pretty bad, but considering we haven't had a single drive all year (at least as of the last game I believe) where we've driven the ball from inside our own 25 for a TD, that almost guarantees a punt in the future. Or late in the game where we need to conserve time AND have as best field position as possible, why risk both and put even more pressure on the offense to gain more yards and with less time to work with?

I get what you're saying but I'd rather take that chance to score or get into really good field position.  A couple yards before the 25 doesn't guarantee a punt.  Maybe with our offense at times but that may be the point of the attempts.  When our offense gets stagnant, I'd rather try to spark it on special teams than start at the 25 which when our offense is stagnant, that equals a punt as well.  Maybe replace him but don't stop being aggressive.  Everyone complains about the offense being conservative but now you want to root for a conservative special teams?  I don't understand that.  I want a different returner or maybe the blocking needs to shape up but don't stop trying to spark the offense by kneeling it in the endzone every time. 

[Sweats]

1 hour ago, BigDingus said:

I've been going back & forth on whether this is worth a thread, but every game I get more & more ticked off that this hasn't been addressed by the coaching staff.

Can someone at OBD tell Brandon Tate to NOT take the ball out of the endzone? It seems like several times each game he hurts our field position quite a bit, setting back an already weak offense even further. I'd rather see him kneel 100% of the time & start at the 25 yard line than take it out every time HOPING he breaks away for a big return, only to get stuffed at the 15. Just last week he averaged 12 yards a return   

For the year, he's averaging around 19.8 yards a return, and considering how often he returns it from the endzone (or right outside endzone, instead of letting the ball bounce in), that puts us further back than had he just knelt down. He hasn't had a TD on a kickoff return since 2010, in 8 seasons he's only had less total yards twice, he's averaging his lowest career return average ever (previous low was 22.1), and his longest of the year was 29 yards. In fact, he's only had 5 total returns of 25 yards or more all year.

Every game I forget about it until it happens...then it happens again....and again. I keep wondering why the heck someone doesn't tell him this is hurting the team! Does anyone else share similar concerns & frustrations?

 

 

 

 

I've often said the same thing.

 

It's almost like Tate thinks he's a real game changer and figures he can hit daylight every time he touches the ball..............he can't and the coaching staff should sit him down and explain this to him.

 

Shameful...........just shameful.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The 2 good things we always seem to have are RBs and K/PR’s. I don’t mind Tate but he isn’t as good as a lot of the guys we have had.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I think he’s lost a step. Had been quite good in the past and still has made some decent PRs. 

[Kmart128]

A lot of kickers are kicking it to the goalline in hope that they catch it right before the goalline take a step back and knee it and they get a safety. I'd rather not risk a safety on the borderline kicks

[Augie]

One word: Crossman. 

[3rdand12]

14 minutes ago, Augie said:

One word: Crossman. 

here we go again. Danny and his questionable statistics through history.
 I would rather cover or down the ball when it is kicked into or certainly bouncing rolling into the end zone.

I expect Tate does not have the best blocking set ups in some situations. I am concerned about his triggers to return it from Coaches.
He could still take it i am sure. but i have yet to see that magical seam you sometimes see a burst through for the returner being opened up. ( From my TV anyways )

[Augie]

I’ll take the 25 on most of those. Yes, it eliminates the chance to see the thing we have yet to see, the long return. I’ll go with the odds and skip the chance of a block in the back eventually bringing back that one....... sorry, I went all glass half empty for a moment. 

[billsfan_34]

Ball control is what this team strives for- and this is why Tate is handling kick return duties. 

[FearLess Price]

 

Tate is a great returner and open field runner. We should throw more WR screens to him.

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, jaybee said:

Well, there are 10 other guys on the field and an ST coach.  Easy to point a finger at Tate but who really knows what the problem is.

 

Well, I have made my crossman opinion known but in this thread.... unless your answer gets us to the 30 regularly than the real answer is just kneel, no?

[Big Turk]

Hard to do well returning kicks when you have 5 guys surrounding you at the 15 yard line. Our blocking on kickoffs has been atrocious.

 

That said he needs to stop returning balls put of the end zone. When the ball is short of the end zone there isn't much choice.

[Bing Bong]

at least he doesn't muff or fumble. I think our special teams play has been great overall.

 

That onside kick tho..

Edited December 22, 2017 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Gugny]

Tate's performance has been poor since he joined the Bills.

 

He fits right in.  For now.  He'll be gone.

[Utah John]

The last Bills player I can remember returning a KO for a TD was CJ Spiller.  I think it was on a Thursday night game.  Does anyone know the last time it happened?

 

The point is, it's really hard to break through.  ST coaches and squads are very good at covering kicks.  The best approach seems to be to kick it high and have it land around the 5, and force the other team to try to return it.  Stop them at the 20 and get the blocking in the back penalty, and they're pinned deep.  We don't do this often enough.

[jtrip]

Been driving me Crazy all year.  Game in and game out.  Zero acceleration.   I say put Kyle Williams in there.  Guarantee same result !   Bill 24 Pats 13

[Hatszel]

Anytime we have changed from Tate it only got worse, so I think we are stuck till next year.

 

[hemma]

Just hope he doesn't pull a McKelvin this weekend.

[Bob in Mich]

I too have been railing on this point.  My buddy who goes to the games with me is a little tired of hearing it I think.

 

Aside from the fact Tate rarely gets to the 20, as said, penalties often set us back inside the 15.  On top of that, the risk of a fumble needs to be considered as well as the risk of player injuries.  

 

Given all of the possible negatives, I wish he would take a knee whenever possible.

[Kmart128]

11 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Hard to do well returning kicks when you have 5 guys surrounding you at the 15 yard line. Our blocking on kickoffs has been atrocious.

 

That said he needs to stop returning balls put of the end zone. When the ball is short of the end zone there isn't much choice.

Not really the blocking rather than the new spot of the kickoff. Teams before would just kick ball out and ball would be spotted at the 20. While now they have incentive to kick ball short to prevent ball from being placed at the 25. This new rule along with the rule that moved the kickoff up is  a disaster for kick returners. The coverage team is down there in like 2 seconds. NFL really needs to move the kickoff back to where it was orginally.

[SoCal Deek]

Great thread OP! I've been screaming the same thing every Sunday. And sitting in the stadium at the Chargers game it was amazing how many of the fans were yelling for him to simply take a knee...but no...he had to bring it out and the Bills kept starting around the 15 yard line. (Of course it was made really annoying because the Chargers kicked off about TEN times in the first half alone.)

 

But, this is on the Coach, not Tate! He has to be told what to do and what not to do. A kick return is like any other offensive play. It is not random. The return team rehearses it.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Kmart128 said:

Not really the blocking rather than the new spot of the kickoff. Teams before would just kick ball out and ball would be spotted at the 20. While now they have incentive to kick ball short to prevent ball from being placed at the 25. This new rule along with the rule that moved the kickoff up is  a disaster for kick returners. The coverage team is down there in like 2 seconds. NFL really needs to move the kickoff back to where it was orginally.

 

The biggest change was not allowing a true wedge to form...blockers arent allowed to link arms together anymore, its a penalty if they do it.  This is why its so much harder to block on kickoffs...a lot more people running free that would have been caught up in the wedge previous to the rule change

[I'm Spartacus]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

The biggest change was not allowing a true wedge to form...blockers arent allowed to link arms together anymore, its a penalty if they do it.  This is why its so much harder to block on kickoffs...a lot more people running free that would have been caught up in the wedge previous to the rule change

 

Rules are ruining football.

[BigDingus]

On 12/22/2017 at 9:05 AM, SoCal Deek said:

Great thread OP! I've been screaming the same thing every Sunday. And sitting in the stadium at the Chargers game it was amazing how many of the fans were yelling for him to simply take a knee...but no...he had to bring it out and the Bills kept starting around the 15 yard line. (Of course it was made really annoying because the Chargers kicked off about TEN times in the first half alone.)

 

But, this is on the Coach, not Tate! He has to be told what to do and what not to do. A kick return is like any other offensive play. It is not random. The return team rehearses it.

 

Fair enough, I'm not sure how it all goes down, but I expected it to be corrected by now either by a coach or Tate simply realizing he's not getting anywhere.

The NFL changed the rules for a reason, and it's to add extra incentive to kneel knowing the ball will be spotted at the 25 instead of the 20. And didn't they also move kickoffs up the field too, thus increasing the chances of it going into the endzone? I get it if the ball is coming down in a risky area, and you're not sure whether or not it'll fall into the endzone, but when it comes to all the ones that are fielded from the endzone itself or were obviously going in? That's what is frustrating & infuriating to watch.