8-8 or 9-7 is pretty impressive.

[buffalostu2]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Defensively, Yes.  

Offensively, hard to argue.  We do not have a passing QB for the talent they brought in at WR.  The WR corps have been practically useless with TT under center.   

This regime is supposed to be process oriented.   Changing variables (WRs) in your process disrupts the expected results.   If they didn't know the instability on offense they would create then the should stop using the word process.  

[aceman_16]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

I can't really give credit to McD or Beane for the lack of talent on the current roster, sorry. 

I am thinking they are re-tooling and that was intentional. Therefore, I give them a lot of credit for less talent on this team.

[teef]

1 minute ago, buffalostu2 said:

This is the same as giving credit for McD having the guts to start Peterman but not making him responsible for the result.  Only delusional Bills fans can take self inflicted problems and give credit for overcoming them.  All they needed to do was play defense with the current roster and this team was capable of winning 10 games.   Expectations deteriorated because of the moves they made.   How do you give credit for that?      

i don't know why this is so hard.  i'm not saying the possible 8/9 wins is a good thing at all, but tell me that you actually thought that was possible given the roster.  did they create this roster?  of course, but some people act like this the team that will be here for the next 3-4 years.  it certainly won't be.  the bills got some value for guys that most likely wouldn't have been here next year, or just weren't living up to expectations.  it was never about this year.  we weren't winning with the guys traded, so at least get value while you build something new.  stop messing around, get a qb, and build the lines. 

[BringBackOrton]

This topic is so Billsy.

[Nick the Greek]

Going into the season I truly believed in 4-12 to 5-11..

 

so at 7-9 is 2 wins really all that impressive? Eh? I guess. 

[corta765]

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

No, I'm not being sarcastic.

 

Last year, we went 7-9.

 

In the off-season and during 2017, we lost:

-Our three best wide receivers

-Our two best corners

-Our pro-bowl DT

-Two starting linebackers

 

We gained:

-An unheralded FS and SS (Hyde and Poyer)

-An unheralded CB (Gaines)

-A better kicker (Haushka)

-A great WR for one game (Benjamin) and throw-in (Matthews)

 

Most of us thought it would be a 4-12 season.

To take that many personnel losses and IMPROVE to 8-8 or 9-7 with a significantly worse roster...

To me, that's impressive.

 

 

The luster loses it shine when you realize how close we were to breaking the drought in a year with a weak AFC and schedule that offered that chance assuming they don't make it in. I agree progress has been made but it is also very possible that we actually have a worse record next year despite a better roster.

[Dan]

12 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

Care to ellaborate?  He does have a point.

Sure.   As others have suggested, the "loses" were due to the current FO getting rid of those players, the "unheralded" additions were hand picked as the replacements by the current FO.   So, they dug their own hole.  Now we should be impressed that they put the dirt back in it?  

 

Many people may have predicted or expected a 4-6 win season, but not me.  But I guess I think differently.  As I see it, if you're making the roster changes they made, they must think the new guys are much better than the old guys; so we should be better not worse than the previous year.  So if we end up with the same record or a game better, why should I be impressed?    

 

Now... granted, I'm not saying the team is in disarray and McD needs to be replaced as some are.  I am suggesting that for the good they did this season (5-2 start), there's also been a lot of bad.   And much of that bad is self-inflicted (starting Nate when he was obviously not ready and costing us a win). So, I'm certainly not impressed.  

 

I get the argument that these players were bad and didn't buy into the process; therefore, they needed to go.  But, at some point isn't it the coaches job to get players to buy in as opposed to just dumping them all if they don't immediately?   In my opinion, and I know it doesn't mean much, but one of the reasons this franchise has mired in mediocrity is because we have a history of dumping good players simply because they don't like it here, while keeping lesser talented players because they buy in.  As much as we need a franchise QB, we need a coach that can convince talented players to play hard each week ...for Buffalo.

 

So, no I'm not impressed with anything the Bills have done this year.  They avoided a full tank and gave us all some excitement and that is good.  But, until all their moves translates into a team that can actually show up and look like a hard-hitting professional team capable of playing with anyone in the league... They're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  

 

I guess I could have summed all that up and just said... I expected the Patriots to beat us by 4 scores yesterday. But, we only got beat by 3 scores... That's impressive.  

[teef]

1 minute ago, Dan said:

Sure.   As others have suggested, the "loses" were due to the current FO getting rid of those players, the "unheralded" additions were hand picked as the replacements by the current FO.   So, they dug their own hole.  Now we should be impressed that they put the dirt back in it?  

 

Many people may have predicted or expected a 4-6 win season, but not me.  But I guess I think differently.  As I see it, if you're making the roster changes they made, they must think the new guys are much better than the old guys; so we should be better not worse than the previous year.  So if we end up with the same record or a game better, why should I be impressed?    

 

Now... granted, I'm not saying the team is in disarray and McD needs to be replaced as some are.  I am suggesting that for the good they did this season (5-2 start), there's also been a lot of bad.   And much of that bad is self-inflicted (starting Nate when he was obviously not ready and costing us a win). So, I'm certainly not impressed.  

 

I get the argument that these players were bad and didn't buy into the process; therefore, they needed to go.  But, at some point isn't it the coaches job to get players to buy in as opposed to just dumping them all if they don't immediately?   In my opinion, and I know it doesn't mean much, but one of the reasons this franchise has mired in mediocrity is because we have a history of dumping good players simply because they don't like it here, while keeping lesser talented players because they buy in.  As much as we need a franchise QB, we need a coach that can convince talented players to play hard each week ...for Buffalo.

 

So, no I'm not impressed with anything the Bills have done this year.  They avoided a full tank and gave us all some excitement and that is good.  But, until all their moves translates into a team that can actually show up and look like a hard-hitting professional team capable of playing with anyone in the league... They're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  

 

I guess I could have summed all that up and just said... I expected the Patriots to beat us by 4 scores yesterday. But, we only got beat by 3 scores... That's impressive.  

i don't know why people think this way.  they made the roster changes to try to gain some draft capital for guys that were not likely going to be on the team next year.  the moves weren't made for this year, and i don't know how anyone could see it that way.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

16 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said:

This regime is supposed to be process oriented.   Changing variables (WRs) in your process disrupts the expected results.   If they didn't know the instability on offense they would create then the should stop using the word process.  

What was the big complaint?  We lost Sammy  (who was underachieving because of TT)

 

They brought in equivalent talent - to no end because TT doesn't pass the darn ball.  

 

You get stability through repetition.   20 total passes to 5 guys aint getting it done. 

[Dan]

1 minute ago, teef said:

i don't know why people think this way.  they made the roster changes to try to gain some draft capital for guys that were not likely going to be on the team next year.  the moves weren't made for this year, and i don't know how anyone could see it that way.

So we all know the future of who would re-sign and who wouldn't?   I do agree... They wanted alot of draft picks and they traded away most anyone they could to get it and reshape the roster in their image.   It's one hell of a risky move, and one that is likely to take 3 years to see the results.   I just think too many people are giving them credit for this great draft and the amazing future we're going to have.  I'll be impressed when they field a team that can compete in the NFL every week and not put up 8 yards of offense in the third quarter, or whatever it ended up being.

[ddaryl]

Hope springs eternal

 

Who knows if we keep Woods Watkins Dareus etc.. they might of poisoned the locker room into a a 6- 10 or 7-9 season which is still possible...  But to strip this roster down and still be in the hunt in December is a tad bit surprising because to most of us, after the preseason fire sale at DB and WR, who would of thought we'd actually win 6 games

 

SO in I'm going to be an optomist there it is

[Hebert19]

I actually agree.  This is not a good football team...at all.  Heart yes.  Talent.  No.  

 

We can't pass for 200 yards.

We can't stop the run.  

We can't put pressure on qb.

 

I'd argue that we have a bottom 5 to 10 roster yet we may go over 500.  That's amazing. 

[teef]

13 minutes ago, Dan said:

So we all know the future of who would re-sign and who wouldn't?   I do agree... They wanted alot of draft picks and they traded away most anyone they could to get it and reshape the roster in their image.   It's one hell of a risky move, and one that is likely to take 3 years to see the results.   I just think too many people are giving them credit for this great draft and the amazing future we're going to have.  I'll be impressed when they field a team that can compete in the NFL every week and not put up 8 yards of offense in the third quarter, or whatever it ended up being.

of course we have no idea about the future of who is going to re-sign, but we can use common sense to help make a conclusion.  did you really think watkins was going to return?  he wants money, and with tyrod as his qb, he sure wouldn't have put of the production that he'd want to be paid for.  on top of that, why would he want to be on a team with such uncertainty at qb?  it just wasn't good situation for him here, so i'm more than glad to get a second and a player.  

 

i agree with everything else.  everything going on is risky, and it's going to take time.  i have zero idea if it will work, but i think the plan is to build this team so they're not a one and done in the playoffs, (assuming they actually start going to the playoffs).

[Dan]

6 minutes ago, teef said:

of course we have no idea about the future of who is going to re-sign, but we can use common sense to help make a conclusion.  did you really think watkins was going to return?  he wants money, and with tyrod as his qb, he sure wouldn't have put of the production that he'd want to be paid for.  on top of that, why would he want to be on a team with such uncertainty at qb?  it just wasn't good situation for him here, so i'm more than glad to get a second and a player.  

 

i agree with everything else.  everything going on is risky, and it's going to take time.  i have zero idea if it will work, but i think the plan is to build this team so they're not a one and done in the playoffs, (assuming they actually start going to the playoffs).

And I think we can ...all.. agree that we hope they're successful in the rebuild.

[teef]

6 minutes ago, Dan said:

And I think we can ...all.. agree that we hope they're successful in the rebuild.

unfortunately i just don't think it's going to happen quick.  if this team can get a qb this draft, i'll feel a lot better about the whole thing.

[Dan]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

unfortunately i just don't think it's going to happen quick.  if this team can get a qb this draft, i'll feel a lot better about the whole thing.

Without a real QB, none of the moves on or off the field matter.  

[nedboy7]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They created the lack of talent.

 

its ok to envolve. Before the season, 8-8 and 9-7 might have looked good.  But so did teams like the Bucs and Broncos.  The AFC sucks.  Sammy Watkins wasn't able to be replaced by Matthews or Benjamin. Dareus would have helped a playoff run more than a 6th rounder.  SM benching TT was the single dumbest coaching decision of the season.

 

color me unimpressed with Dick Jauron Jr.  his clapping game is on point though.

 

well said. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Pretty impressive from what I was expecting before the season.

 

But now disappointing because we were once 5-2.

[Jasovon]

Coaching does seem to be fixed, we now have a talent issue and that is significantly easier to fix. 

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They created the lack of talent.

 

its ok to envolve. Before the season, 8-8 and 9-7 might have looked good.  But so did teams like the Bucs and Broncos.  The AFC sucks.  Sammy Watkins wasn't able to be replaced by Matthews or Benjamin. Dareus would have helped a playoff run more than a 6th rounder.  SM benching TT was the single dumbest coaching decision of the season.

 

color me unimpressed with Dick Jauron Jr.  his clapping game is on point though.

It's looking like Marcel is going to turn into a fifth rounder. That's what he turns into if he's on the roster at the end of the season and the Jags make the playoffs (which they will).

 

[White Linen]

4 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

Not when you started 5-2

 

because we started 5-2

[BobbyC81]

4 hours ago, Dan said:

Exactly.   They gutted the roster.  So now we should think its good that they got their hand picked, lesser talented guys to perform as well as last year?

 

"We're building a team, not collecting talent."

[White Linen]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Sorry, but only a Bills fan beaten down by 18 years if ineptitude would say something like this.

 

8-8/9-7 is pathetic. Either make the playoffs or get a Top 3 pick in the draft. Anything in between is just a waste of all our time, money, and energy.

 

Not really what the topic is.  Point is McD can coach.

[paulbills]

lol, only in buffalo is 9-7 "impressive", truly sad. I wonder what 9-7 is to the pats at this point? That's a bad season for them, when is the last time they've been 9-7 or worse? 2002? 

[BobbyC81]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Sorry, but only a Bills fan beaten down by 18 years if ineptitude would say something like this.

 

8-8/9-7 is pathetic. Either make the playoffs or get a Top 3 pick in the draft. Anything in between is just a waste of all our time, money, and energy.

 

Since some like to refer to McD as Jauron Jr., I'm rooting for 7-9.  Beat the Colts in this next game, then lose the last three. With all the 6-6 and 5-7 teams currently, that could move them up a few spots in the draft.

 

If Darnold and Rosen are in the draft, and snagged by Cleveland, Jets, Giants, etc., a Baker Mayfield could be available around the 12th pick.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

The defense held Brady all of the first half and had Tommy fuming with only 9 points. 

Then in total to under 250 passing and 2 TDs. 

 

The problem was Tommy smoked some medical weed to calm down and wasn’t upset when he returned.  

[simool]

1 hour ago, paulbills said:

lol, only in buffalo is 9-7 "impressive", truly sad. I wonder what 9-7 is to the pats at this point? That's a bad season for them, when is the last time they've been 9-7 or worse? 2002? 

 

Well at least you have the CFL.  Why are you trolling a Bills board?  Jelly that your boy Bon Jovi did not get the team?

[Rigotz]

Seems like a lot of you are missing the point and just want someone to scream at.

Nobody is saying going 8-8 is ideal. We all want a top 3 pick.

 

That title and meaning of the post is that it is impressive what our staff has done, given a lack of talent.

Listen to some happy music and cheer up, emo kids.

[Koufax]

5 hours ago, teef said:

to be clear, winning 8/9 games isn't a good thing.  as mentioned it really was the worst case scenario, but i'm just surprised it happened. (if it happens)

 

Doh!  Someone still in on the draft position myth!

 

Winning football games is good.  Having a bad year has its hidden benefits, but I would much rather draft like the Ravens or Bengals than draft like the Browns.  My ultimate goal is to draft like the Patriots/Seahawks/Steelers.

 

Winning nine games is GREAT and great for this team and its short term future.  "trust the process" through 76ers like garbage seasons is harder than "we are actually a decent football team on the cusp".

 

Anybody who thinks the 17 year drought is because we didn't get bad enough first doesn't understand the modern NFL.  The 17 year drought is because we didn't get good enough and never managed to build off an upswing.  Looking to next year, coming off a 9-7 season that is a couple Ravens losses (Steelers and Bengals?) away from being good enough for the playoffs, having tons of draft picks, and entering the second year of a regime that has built trust and excitement in the locker room and schemes more familiar, is the best place to be.

 

4-12 would have been the disaster for the next three years, and while we could live with it and survive it, 9 wins is just better.

[DrDawkinstein]

11 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Seems like a lot of you are missing the point and just want someone to scream at.

Nobody is saying going 8-8 is ideal. We all want a top 3 pick.

 

That title and meaning of the post is that it is impressive what our staff has done, given a lack of talent.

Listen to some happy music and cheer up, emo kids.

 

Nothing about 8-8 is impressive, especially when it was them that created the lack of talent.

 

I'd be impressed with the coaching if West Seneca West went 8-8 in the NFL this year. Not the Bills.

Edited December 5, 2017 by DrDawkinstein

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Seems like a lot of you are missing the point and just want someone to scream at.

Nobody is saying going 8-8 is ideal. We all want a top 3 pick.

 

That title and meaning of the post is that it is impressive what our staff has done, given a lack of talent.

Listen to some happy music and cheer up, emo kids.

 

 

You know, I think what some people are hinting at....is that you can't give away a lot of talent, and then look for the kudos for "what tour staff (has) done, given a lack of talent".

 

 

[BigDingus]

10 hours ago, Rigotz said:

No, I'm not being sarcastic.

 

Last year, we went 7-9.

 

In the off-season and during 2017, we lost:

-Our three best wide receivers

-Our two best corners

-Our pro-bowl DT

-Two starting linebackers

 

We gained:

-An unheralded FS and SS (Hyde and Poyer)

-An unheralded CB (Gaines)

-A better kicker (Haushka)

-A great WR for one game (Benjamin) and throw-in (Matthews)

 

Most of us thought it would be a 4-12 season.

To take that many personnel losses and IMPROVE to 8-8 or 9-7 with a significantly worse roster...

To me, that's impressive.

 

 

Not just our two best corners, didn't we lose the entire starting secondary?

[reddogblitz]

8-8 or 9-7 would be better than last year so I view that as moving in the right direction.

 

If we get to 9-7 we might make the playoffs yet posters want to throw on the towel and not even try. 

 

Loser mentality.

Edited December 5, 2017 by reddogblitz

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

For the team who people thought were in a complete rebuild - it is kind of impressive. 

For the team who people thought TT would improve ....  Only the hard core's are impressed.  

 

There were 2 or 3 things I wanted to see improve with TT.  He did make some progress and I was starting to believe, then he regressed.  

 

4 weeks left to impress me.    to a happier ending. 

[SoTier]

20 hours ago, Rigotz said:

No, I'm not being sarcastic.

 

Last year, we went 7-9.

 

In the off-season and during 2017, we lost:

-Our three best wide receivers

-Our two best corners

-Our pro-bowl DT

-Two starting linebackers

 

We gained:

-An unheralded FS and SS (Hyde and Poyer)

-An unheralded CB (Gaines)

-A better kicker (Haushka)

-A great WR for one game (Benjamin) and throw-in (Matthews)

 

Most of us thought it would be a 4-12 season.

To take that many personnel losses and IMPROVE to 8-8 or 9-7 with a significantly worse roster...

To me, that's impressive.

 

 

It's Jauronball 2.0.  Replace most talented players with JAGs, career STers, and PS refugees and pretend they're "just as good" because they "buy into The Process" while adding 1 big name "star" to con fans into filling the stadium ... rinse and then repeat ... ad nauseaum.

[ProcessTheTrust]

8-8ish was the worst possible outcome. 4-12 would have been rough, but at least you don't have to trade up to get your QB and you can fill the various holes to become a real contender. Now we probably lose a few picks to get our guy and pray we land some late round/no name FA gems to fill holes.

[teef]

13 hours ago, Koufax said:

 

Doh!  Someone still in on the draft position myth!

 

Winning football games is good.  Having a bad year has its hidden benefits, but I would much rather draft like the Ravens or Bengals than draft like the Browns.  My ultimate goal is to draft like the Patriots/Seahawks/Steelers.

 

Winning nine games is GREAT and great for this team and its short term future.  "trust the process" through 76ers like garbage seasons is harder than "we are actually a decent football team on the cusp".

 

Anybody who thinks the 17 year drought is because we didn't get bad enough first doesn't understand the modern NFL.  The 17 year drought is because we didn't get good enough and never managed to build off an upswing.  Looking to next year, coming off a 9-7 season that is a couple Ravens losses (Steelers and Bengals?) away from being good enough for the playoffs, having tons of draft picks, and entering the second year of a regime that has built trust and excitement in the locker room and schemes more familiar, is the best place to be.

 

4-12 would have been the disaster for the next three years, and while we could live with it and survive it, 9 wins is just better.

drafting higher definitely helps, but i agree with you.  it's not where you pick but who you pick.  that being said, i think this year is does matter much more where you pick, especially if the goal is to trade up in one of top positions.  

23 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

It's Jauronball 2.0.  Replace most talented players with JAGs, career STers, and PS refugees and pretend they're "just as good" because they "buy into The Process" while adding 1 big name "star" to con fans into filling the stadium ... rinse and then repeat ... ad nauseaum.

i don't know why people are being so dense about this.  people keep saying we've "replaced" players, when that hasn't been done yet.  this year was a purge year, and the build up begins this off season.  

[HappyDays]

21 minutes ago, teef said:

i don't know why people are being so dense about this.  people keep saying we've "replaced" players, when that hasn't been done yet.  this year was a purge year, and the build up begins this off season.  

 

Yeah the whole thing about Jauronball is it was still being played in year 6. This is year 1. Won’t have a good evaluation of the rebuild until year 3. Next year we should see progress though.

[teef]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah the whole thing about Jauronball is it was still being played in year 6. This is year 1. Won’t have a good evaluation of the rebuild until year 3. Next year we should see progress though.

or we should at least see what direction this team wants to take this team in.  to me this year is just a throw away.  once they get their qb and a young core, i think we'll have a much better idea.  i'm not saying, or am convinced this will work, but to act like this team is some finished product that the staff wanted is just simple.

[without a drought]

I'm thinking parade and maybe a banner.