Just Jack Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Again, I'll reiterate... give me a media pass for $20 good across most newspapers and media outlets across the nation, let me pick and choose articles I want to read at whatever price you want to attach, say $.25 per view... Similar to the way I get my daily comics. My local paper went to delivery three days a week, and with my travel schedule for work, and that most of their articles are on their website already for free, I decided to drop my subscription. But I still wanted a way to get my daily comics. Low and behold, there are two websites that you can subscribe to and get pretty much any comics you want. I found ones I haven't seen in years, and they arrive in my email every morning. Cost is minimal in my eyes, pay just once a year. There are free options out there if you want that. Go Comics - $20/year http://www.gocomics.com/ Comics Kingdom - $20/year https://comicskingdom.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smuvtalker Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 You had Glenn Danzig on your paper route? I don't remember his name. I was 13 at the time, so it would've been 1987. If my memory serves me correctly, he was kinda tall, lanky white guy with long blonde hair. Judging from the paraphernalia he gave me, the band seemed to be just getting started. I don't listen to heavy metal, but I was a teenager who was happy to get free(there's that word again) t-shirts, hats, buttons and stickers from a really cool guy who was my best tipper! Side bar: I also delivered the Post to NBA Hall of Famer David Robinson's grandmother... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I don't remember his name. I was 13 at the time, so it would've been 1987. If my memory serves me correctly, he was kinda tall, lanky white guy with long blonde hair. Judging from the paraphernalia he gave me, the band seemed to be just getting started. I don't listen to heavy metal, but I was a teenager who was happy to get free(there's that word again) t-shirts, hats, buttons and stickers from a really cool guy who was my best tipper! Side bar: I also delivered the Post to NBA Hall of Famer David Robinson's grandmother... Well that's not Glenn Danzig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Why is the thread pinned? What does this have to do with the BUFFALO BILLS? Because the subject matter being discussed is whether or not to pay to read articles on the BUFFALO BILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 For what it's worth, I haven't read an article from the BN for over a week and I don't feel a bit less informed about the Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I put down my phone and fired up the laptop to respond to this off-topic topic. As a journalism major (that I don't use, but still appreciate), I could not agree more with SDS. The one last bastion of good journalism is long-form. I enjoy The Atlantic for that very reason. I think The Ringer is one of the best "new" sites/brands/sources of information on ALL topics out there. (Take your hate of Boston out of your responses {Bill Simmons} and actually go there/listen/read the content.) I bet Jerry Sullivan can do good work in long-format, but he doesn't have the ability or the BN won't give him that ability. There is so much garbage being thrown to the public these days both on TV and in print/e-journalism. I would, and do, GLADLY pay $3 to weed out the nonsense for quality. My time is the most valuable thing in my life currently and whatever buys me 3 minutes of extra quality, I will pay for. War Larry Felser. Bills 27, Carolina 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) There's really no need to complain about the BN paywall since it's ridiculously easy to get around it. I also disagree that anything else short of a paying money for news content is freeloading - getting eyes on advertisements is worth something. Please tell Edited September 17, 2017 by CSBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 Please tell We don't promote ways to steal another business's product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I put down my phone and fired up the laptop to respond to this off-topic topic. As a journalism major (that I don't use, but still appreciate), I could not agree more with SDS. The one last bastion of good journalism is long-form. I enjoy The Atlantic for that very reason. I think The Ringer is one of the best "new" sites/brands/sources of information on ALL topics out there. (Take your hate of Boston out of your responses {Bill Simmons} and actually go there/listen/read the content.) I bet Jerry Sullivan can do good work in long-format, but he doesn't have the ability or the BN won't give him that ability. There is so much garbage being thrown to the public these days both on TV and in print/e-journalism. I would, and do, GLADLY pay $3 to weed out the nonsense for quality. My time is the most valuable thing in my life currently and whatever buys me 3 minutes of extra quality, I will pay for. War Larry Felser. Bills 27, Carolina 20 It's hard to take any media seriously when they lack any semblance of objectivity or are caught lying outright without retraction. And I'm certainly not going to pay for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) $36 a year......jeez..give up a cup of coffee or a pack of cigs a month....skip one cocktail every two months at a bar for TBN...Tim Graham's gotta eat. Edited September 17, 2017 by JoeF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 $36 a year......jeez..give up a cup of coffee or a pack of cigs a month....skip one cocktail every two months at a bar to TBN...Tim Graham's gotta eat. Everyone holds up Tim graham as if he's Pulitzer reincarnated. I don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Surprised you didn't ask for payment to read your post. The paper who shall remain nameless should seek ad revenue or survey revenue. Surprised you're still an active member. Good post, SDS. In my view, many here have shown to be better writers than most of the 'sports journalists' associated w/the BN. Would any of us commit to insightful, thought and conversational provoking articles under a deadline 2-3X week for free in this digital age? Hell no. Pay the Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I sure hope that BN is paying A LOT to the owners of Two Billls Drive for all the advertising. After all nothing is free.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Surprised you're still an active member. Good post, SDS. In my view, many here have shown to be better writers than most of the 'sports journalists' associated w/the BN. Would any of us commit to insightful, thought and conversational provoking articles under a deadline 2-3X week for free in this digital age? Hell no. Pay the Man. Very good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I am not going to pay for a BN Bills supscription... BN gets most of its money thru advertisers and clicks. Not gonna add to it. Like ESPN insider not gonna encourage this business model. But like all models it will rise and fall based on Capialistic principals... either it makes money and maintains enough clicks for advertisers or advertisers will leave and it will revert to the previous model... my hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I guess if I truly thought that the information I was getting through the Blitz was that uniquely insightful I'd pony up the money. Not like it would break the bank. I just don't think the insights from some or maybe most of the writers are anything I can't find in other sites. I like Gaughan. Used to like Vic but he seems to write a lot of stuff now that Seems questionable because he feels pressed to write something every day. I like Sullivan's stuff when it's focused on college things or personal interest but his stuff on the Bills is just tired and old, plus I don't like his childish satire that he believes is good writing. I have no use for Gleason at all. The new woman we'll see. maybe I'll do the two week trial and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterLifer Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I'm not a newcomer, as I have been reading Bills and Sabres posts here for as long as I can remember. This is an outstanding discussion; touching on the state of journalism, economic health of publications and expectations of readers and sports fans. Thank you to the mod, your insights and comments are informed and thoughtful. I can tell you that paying for TBN was an easy decision for me. I signed up immediately. The bottom line is that I am a Buffalo sports fan and I feel these are exciting times for us. I see the Sabres on the front side of an explosive leap forward. While the Bills are not as far advanced in their building process, I truly believe that Beane and McDermott are righting the ship, creating future good times. I want to know our teams, their direction, the leaders and the players. I just spent the past hour reading six Sabres articles where I learned about our new players and Housley's vision. TBN contributed two quality articles to my enjoyable morning. On the football side, I feel educated and prepared for today's Bills/Panthers game. TBN has more articles in this mix than I can count (ok, I can count, 11). My easy decision is that TBN contributes to my quality of life with their local sports coverage. $3 a month does not even get my attention. Those of you offended by Jerry Sullivan? I'm with you. I do not believe he deserves a paycheck. Negativity, condescension and arrogance is easy to deliver and a style of writing used by lazy minds. However, in the grand scheme, TBN provides information I crave as I enjoy my beloved Buffalo sports. Thank you for this board also. Two Bills Drive is fantastic. Honestly, I would pay for access here too. I look forward to reading the posts every day. Go Bills. Go Sabres. Good times are ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Jerry Sullivan isn't their only columnist. If this is your excuse, then what you are really saying is that you will never pay for content. If this is the BN's stance then they are not going to turn this thing around. Look through this thread. Numerous people saying the negativity of Jerry Sullivan and Bucky Gleason has pushed them away from the BN. I can see their columns posted for free right here on TSW, by multiple posters a day. They might write that grating negative style more professionally than the posters that do it here, but it's all the same to me. FWIW I don't listen to Schopp and the Bulldog anymore. Schopp has awful opinions. "I'd throw the ball 40 times a game no matter what" - he said that multiple times last year. Does he watch football? I don't know, but I'm not gonna listen to that crap. If WGR suddenly charged a subscription to listen to Schopp ramble about his uneducated opinions, I wouldn't pay just to support local journalists. Give me smart content. So if the BN has decided people like me aren't worth pursuing, they're wrong. I have numerous subscriptions to various websites and media outlets. If there was some astoundingly high quality in the BN, like particularly interesting All-22 breakdowns, I would ignore the Jerry Sullivan garbage. But let's be honest, the other content provided by the BN is average at best. I love the Bills. I spend a good amount of money on them. I would spend $3 a month to get above average coverage but that's not what the BN provides so why would I bother? This whole discussion has actually convinced me to go subscribe to Cover1. Their subscriptions are only $1 a month and it's interesting Bills content I can't find anywhere else. That's the model I'm gonna give my money too. Not a model that promotes whiny clueless columns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloMatt Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Surprised you're still an active member. Good post, SDS. In my view, many here have shown to be better writers than most of the 'sports journalists' associated w/the BN. Would any of us commit to insightful, thought and conversational provoking articles under a deadline 2-3X week for free in this digital age? Hell no. Pay the Man. Why? Oh, was that an attempt at humor? Clearly my post was and it also pointed out that there are other mechanisms that can be use to generate revenue. Go Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 My uncle was the head of the accounting dept for one NY city newspaper, that was (and probably still is) losing money. The owners solution to bring in more money? Buy another small city newspaper that was losing money. My uncle only stayed as long as he did because he felt sorry for the other employees, not the owner. Once he finally decided to leave, it was a huge relief, he's been a lot happier than he was there wondering if they'd make payroll each week. Because the owner of this site (SDS) decided to pin it since there's been so many people complaining about it. Her company does the same thing,buys up struggling small newspapers and "streamlines them." I don't understand it either because they still struggle in the end. Maybe they hope to flip them after they start turning a profit? OBTW Scott owns this board, he can pin a thread on unicorns and albino midgets if he so chooses...👊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) There is a 100% legal way to bypass the pay wall. If you have a library card you can read the archived stories for free. The Erie county library puts all the stories up on their website everyday. You pay for this service when you get an Erie county library card. Edit: sign into the library website and go here: http://www.buffalolib.org/content/research You should be able to find any article that was in print. Edited September 17, 2017 by Fingon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Everyone holds up Tim graham as if he's Pulitzer reincarnated. I don't see it. Not trying to convince you that he is good at what he does, but I feel like he is. My feeling is based on stories like the ones on Beane and McDermott, Bjorn Nitmo, Darryl Talley. TBN gives him the chance to get indepth with really few word limits and column inches and he makes the most of it. Yes he left TBD in a huff and probably shouldn't have responded...but I feel like he is good at what he does and is worth $3 a month. Kimberly Martin is off to a fast start to in my book. She seems to build relationships where she gets more than the normal quotes out of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I 100% agree. I have said it a million times, if you are too sensitive to read an article that is critical of your beliefs well you just arent ready for the real world. A mature adult should read pieces that are critical of their beliefs, articles that arent critical of their beliefs; all in the name of professional development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I'm curious why it's just Bills articles and not Sabres or any other content in the News Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 At the end of the day, I don't need well-written in depth news articles on a sport. Give me recaps of scores, transactions, and injury updates. This industry has grown into a lot of people patting themselves on the back for what amounts to talking about men playing a kids game. Yep. Sports news is ridiculous. It's like reading a soap opera transcript. I wouldn't mind one bit if they all went out of business and all we had was team sources of sports news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 I'm curious why it's just Bills articles and not Sabres or any other content in the News You should ask Josh Barnett. Right now, it isn't clear if this is going to happen with Sabres coverage also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 You should ask Josh Barnett. Right now, it isn't clear if this is going to happen with Sabres coverage also. ok, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I'm curious why it's just Bills articles and not Sabres or any other content in the News Supply and demand, most likely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 I don't understand why this discussion keeps devolving into "I don't like the BN writers, so I'm not giving them my money." Fine, don't give them your money. Just like if you passed an actual newsstand and saw a copy of the BN there, you don't have to buy it if you don't want to read it. This is about the expectation that you should read BN stories for free. These people's work shouldn't be free. If you like it enough to want to read it, go ahead. Just pay a really little bit of money for it, so it will always be there for you. If nobody likes the BN, it will go away. If some people like it but nobody pays for it, it will go away. If you're fine with that, more power to you. I'm not fine with it. Even though I despise Bucky and Sully and their constant crap, I still like the other writers. And I also like some of the other non-sports writers at BN. Jerry Zremsky is one of the best journalists in the entire country. I moved away from Buffalo a long time ago, but I subscribe online because I keep coming back to BN articles and I want to see that resource survive. I also subscribe to three other newspapers, one here in Salt Lake and two others online, because I keep coming back to their content and I appreciate it, and I want to see good journalism survive. Nobody is forcing anyone to pay for something they don't like. But if you like even some small part of it and want to see it continue, it's time to reconsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 I would like to point out again, similar to what Rubes said above, the purpose of my thread was: 1. To inform readers that just because you run ads it doesn't mean you have a healthy, sustainable business. 2. To inform readers that after 15 years of free, that there is going to be a TREMENDOUS push to go back to a subscription model. This is because chasing pennies per click has failed local newspapers. Readers will need to adjust their opinions on what should be free and what will no longer be free. 3. That the grousing over $3 is absurd. You don't have to pay, but stop pretending this is some major imposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 The admins here must be paid by the Buffalo News or something. They are deleting posts that reference the fact that all this content is available, for free, if you own a library card. Using your tax payer funded resources IS NOT stealing a companies product. THE ERIE COUNTY LIBRARY PUTS ALL THIS STUFF ONLINE FOR ANYONE THAT HAS A LIBRARY CARD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 The admins here must be paid by the Buffalo News or something. They are deleting posts that reference the fact that all this content is available, for free, if you own a library card. Using your tax payer funded resources IS NOT stealing a companies product. THE ERIE COUNTY LIBRARY PUTS ALL THIS STUFF ONLINE FOR ANYONE THAT HAS A LIBRARY CARD! There is really only one "admin" here in that regard. I am not being paid. I left your post. A moderator saw it differently and removed it. I restored it. Thank you for alerting me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrbojanglezs Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 The buffalo news is high quality journalism? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 About 90% of the links at two Bills drive are all links to Buffalo news. Are you paid by them? I'd post a screenshot, but some diversity of sources would be nice. And no, I won't ever pay to read the crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 The buffalo news is high quality journalism? Lol Try reading many of the newspapers in other NFL cities. I'll give the Sooze its due in that regard--they put more resources into Bills coverage than just about any other home town newspaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted September 17, 2017 Author Share Posted September 17, 2017 About 90% of the links at two Bills drive are all links to Buffalo news. Are you paid by them? I'd post a screenshot, but some diversity of sources would be nice. And no, I won't ever pay to read the crap. Another Norman Einstein. Maybe it's because the hometown newspaper posts the most content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 This happens all the time in business - companies get stuck in a certain way of thinking and then get bit in the behind when the times change. Business school case studies have numerous examples of this - Sony with the Walkman. Blockbuster with the video store. Kodak with film. Hell the company I work for, Microsoft, got killed in the phone business by Apple because they failed to adapt. I mean, do you have any examples demonstrating that newspapers have tried revenue streams other than ad-supported revenue and subscription-based revenue? These are the same wells they've been tapping since the dawn of the newspaper. Most of these papers are controlled by large groups like Hearst or Gannett, neither of which seem eager to change. To make money in the media realm nowadays, you have to be creative. Newspapers still think they can survive by printing stories from 8PM the previous day on physical paper, delivering to homes each morning, and supplement that with online subscriptions. That's just not going to work in 2017, and the financials of the major newspapers prove that. Again, I'll reiterate... give me a media pass for $20 good across most newspapers and media outlets across the nation, let me pick and choose articles I want to read at whatever price you want to attach, say $.25 per view... and then I think you'd see some traction. Micropayments are all the rage right now. Or, team with one of the big media companies that has captive customers (like Comcast or Charter), and offer their customers access to your content for a cut of their fees. That's what ESPN3 is doing right now. You nailed it. Be creative, compete or die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 There is really only one "admin" here in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 (edited) It is their content and they have a right to charge for it. That said, at this point, I don't value it enough to pay for it. Edited September 17, 2017 by Green Lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 Another Norman Einstein. Maybe it's because the hometown newspaper posts the most content?so there are no other outlets in Buffalo i.e. WGR? None in Roc or Cuse? I would post a screenshot if I could, and it would be 10 Buffalo News links in a ROW! So it seems like you are paid by them, and why not if they are charging themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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