GM Doug Whaley has been fired

[Buffalo86]

Right on to those of you preaching accountablility, which has been absent for at least the last 10 years or so. I remember when Jauron would take full responsibility for his losses without any fear of repercussion. It occurred to me that something was seriously wrong there.

[row_33]

Right on to those of you preaching accountablility, which has been absent for at least the last 10 years or so. I remember when Jauron would take full responsibility for his losses without any fear of repercussion. It occurred to me that something was seriously wrong there.

 

It's not the same any more. Execs make enough in one season to last years into their future, they don't fear much.

[NoSaint]

I bet the other teams in our division were hoping it wasn't true. Even Belichick is probably bummed; I hear he had grown quite fond of his annual RFA poker games with Doug.

Now what if McD said go low I'm willing to risk him?

[Dr Doom]

My only concern is that the future of the franchise has been placed on this hands on a coach who has never coached a single game and has no experience as GM. Other than that, it's fine..

[Buffalo86]

Now what if McD said go low I'm willing to risk him?

Then maybe Bill won't mind.

[Sweats]

All i keep thinking about is drafting EJ wayyyyyyyyyyyy too high and then being so stubborn to stand by his decision. I'm no scout, but even at FSU, the guy was a project. How anyone let Whaley even make that draft choice in the first is unforgivable.

 

And then throwing 2 number one picks to get Sammy, who is barely and i mean barely, able to stay on the field each week, when it was a deep WR draft class..........that was the beginning of the end for me with Whaleys tenure.

 

In the grand scheme of things, i'm sure that Whaley has done more good than harm to the franchise, but as a life long fan, some of his decisions were questionable and just down-right painful from a fans perspective.

[DrDawkinstein]

I'll agree with this sentiment.

 

I wouldve made it DW either at the initial purchase or this coaching search and committed to the structure, but if he wants it to be McD hopefully we found a gem that can handle it. Would make me nervous based on many failing and odds of us discovering a guy that does both is lower than just finding a coach but... well... let's commit to a structure and have everyone actually step into real roles.

 

Same here. And if that's McD now, fine. After 17 years what's another 4 months.

 

Problem is, according to Pegula's PC, there isn't going to be such a clear structure.

[Buffalo86]

 

It's not the same any more. Execs make enough in one season to last years into their future, they don't fear much.

I respectfully disagree. There will always be some who are in it just for the money, but the top ones actually want to excel.

[Sisyphean Bills]

There are a variety organizational structures that have proved to be successful and there are the same organizational structures that have proved to be failures. Regardless what the structure is what is guaranteed to fail is a system where accountability and responsibility are defused. That dynamic applies to all types of enterprises that have nothing to do with sports.

 

It has been apparent that once McDermott was brought on board Whaley's history with the organization was clearly written. There has never been an occasion that I can remember where the GM was completely silenced and the coach's voice was prominently elevated over the GM's. I have no problem with having a primary voice but when the GM is publicly told to not say anything on behalf of the organization that was more than a public demotion, it was a public castrating.

 

The irony is that it seems that in this draft Whaley did a good job of providing a list of the type of prospects that McDermott would be comfortable with. There is no question that McDermott is driving the bus. However, I get queasy when the role of HC and GM are wrapped into one. In that type of all encompassing setup there is not a counterbalance between the short and long term interests of the franchise. I find that worrisome.

 

The Bills have lacked strategic vision for a long time as evidenced by their lack of success on the field. I have no idea if McD is the visionary or the strategic planner that this organization so desperately needs, but a shake down is way overdue. As things wound down with Ralph, it became impossible to do a real course correction because nobody they could hire was willing to pour the level of energy into something with ownership uncertainty looming. And, I suspect, they were far more interested in making the books look as bright green as possible for Mrs. Wilson to cash out with the biggest windfall possible.

 

To the HC running the show, this isn't unheard of obviously. Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick run their teams and have had great success in doing so. For Belichick, reinventing the team on-the-fly has been accomplished in all phases, with the exception of QB. He is able to adapt and change to trends and the parts supply. It's a dynamic plan, but one of its innovations is that the coach isn't married to particular parts on his roster or to any particular system. Few coaches have been as adaptable.

 

We will see what McD can do, but at this point he doesn't strike me as a coach who's content to just try and work with the holdovers and hangers-on who haven't demonstrated any sustained success for a generation of fans.

[FireChan]

 

Same here. And if that's McD now, fine. After 17 years what's another 4 months.

 

Problem is, according to Pegula's PC, there isn't going to be such a clear structure.

He doesn't get it. I said he didn't get it after Rex was fired, because he truly doesn't. Whether he kept Whaley or not is irrelevant as long as he plays King in his court with the HC and GM both making cases.

 

That may work in fracking. In an industry where careers are made in 16 weeks, it does not.

[Magox]

 

"Blown picks of EJ Manuel and over-paying to trade up for oft-injured Sammy Watkinsand botching the contract with Tyrod Taylor and throwing ridiculous money at mercurial Marcell Dareus kept the front office in a perilous plight, and the longer McDermott had to contemplate this roster and assess the contractual mishaps and salary-cap issues, the clearer it became he wouldn't be working with Whaley for long.

"Losing top corner Stephon Gilmore in free agency, to the hated Patriots, no less, did not set well with the new head coach, but he inherited too many other bad contracts to truly compete. The Taylor affair was unnecessarily difficult, given the bizarre structure agreed to a year ago (before the new coach arrived) and the heavy-handed tactics the front office took with Taylor late last season. Then, for the second year in a row, the Bills put too low a free-agent tender on an emerging skill player, and for the second straight year the Pats plucked him away, with Mike Gillislee joining Chris Hogan as part of the New England dynasty. Time was getting short for Whaley."....NFL CBS

 

 

That along with his disastrous presser and the inability to sell himself as the answer to the Pegula's did him in.

[NoSaint]

I wonder what the players think. I know they get it's a business but....

 

And the first impression for the rookies has got to be stellar. Not even to be mean to buffalo but I imagine at this point there are plenty that have to talk themselves into being excited to be picked here (and get some jokes From friends/family)... these guys were like 3-4 years old last time we made the playoffs... and of course the snow.... but then this right out of the gate?

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

There are likely going to be some guys around the scouting department being moved.

That said, I really don't believe Doug is in trouble.

Wow, you're good.

[jeffismagic]

I wonder what the players think. I know they get it's a business but....

 

And the first impression for the rookies has got to be stellar. Not even to be mean to buffalo but I imagine at this point there are plenty that have to talk themselves into being excited to be picked here (and get some jokes From friends/family)... these guys were like 3-4 years old last time we made the playoffs... and of course the snow.... but then this right out of the gate?

 

Yeah, our first pick is welcomed by Whaley and then Whaley is fired the next day along with all of the scouts. Not a sign of a healthy organization.

[Buffalo86]

I wonder what the players think. I know they get it's a business but....

 

And the first impression for the rookies has got to be stellar. Not even to be mean to buffalo but I imagine at this point there are plenty that have to talk themselves into being excited to be picked here (and get some jokes From friends/family)... these guys were like 3-4 years old last time we made the playoffs... and of course the snow.... but then this right out of the gate?

 

They probably missed the assurances of being off the bus starters, but otherwise, I doubt they care. If McDermott really was controlling the draft, then the guy who brought them to Buffalo is still in Buffalo.

[JM2009]

Wow, you're good.

He disappeared from the boards today, it seems.

[YoloinOhio]

Wow, you're good.

i said the same. I thought it was about 50/50. Thought they might just change his role.

[Santana]

Honestly and unfortunately I don't think Doug Whaley was the problem. The main problem in buffalo is that we have ownership who is pretty much clueless on how to run an organization, let alone 2 of them. Sorry to get off topic but both the Sabres and Bills are teams that have more than adequate talent on their rosters but bad coaching hires by the owner/s have kept the organizations in mediocrity jail.

[FireChan]

I wonder what the players think. I know they get it's a business but....

 

And the first impression for the rookies has got to be stellar. Not even to be mean to buffalo but I imagine at this point there are plenty that have to talk themselves into being excited to be picked here (and get some jokes From friends/family)... these guys were like 3-4 years old last time we made the playoffs... and of course the snow.... but then this right out of the gate?

I get what you're saying, but this has to be encouraging for the older vets at the same time, right? Pegulas aren't just gonna keep doing the same old thing.

[Kelly the Dog]

Might as well say it now, Bills are due in 2022!!!

[JaCrispy]

 

Yeah, our first pick is welcomed by Whaley and then Whaley is fired the next day along with all of the scouts. Not a sign of a healthy organization.

Yeah, if they all knew Whaley was gone in a few days, why in the world would they allow that? very strange.

[jeffismagic]

Yeah, if they all knew Whaley was gone in a few days, why in the world would they allow that? very strange.

 

I think they wanted a video to show that everyone was collaborating and working together. That way if Sean's picks fail they can blame Doug.

[CanadianFan]

All i keep thinking about is drafting EJ wayyyyyyyyyyyy too high and then being so stubborn to stand by his decision. I'm no scout, but even at FSU, the guy was a project. How anyone let Whaley even make that draft choice in the first is unforgivable.

 

And then throwing 2 number one picks to get Sammy, who is barely and i mean barely, able to stay on the field each week, when it was a deep WR draft class..........that was the beginning of the end for me with Whaleys tenure.

 

In the grand scheme of things, i'm sure that Whaley has done more good than harm to the franchise, but as a life long fan, some of his decisions were questionable and just down-right painful from a fans perspective.

 

You have to understand that Buddy Nix was the guy who promoted him to GM. Nix was a mentor of sorts. Nix wanted to pick a QB before he left. He wasn't going to throw Nix under the bus in his retirement, so he continued defending the decision. I admire him for that. That's what a decent human being does. That's what a good person does. He could have shied away from it, but he didn't.

Might as well say it now, Bills are due in 2022!!!

 

Due for what?

[FireChan]

 

You have to understand that Buddy Nix was the guy who promoted him to GM. Nix was a mentor of sorts. Nix wanted to pick a QB before he left. He wasn't going to throw Nix under the bus in his retirement, so he continued defending the decision. I admire him for that. That's what a decent human being does. That's what a good person does. He could have shied away from it, but he didn't.

 

Due for what?

No. Whaley picked EJ.

[Crusher]

Crusher - what do you think about Peterman? I like him a lot.

He's a QB in the truest sense. Very detail oriented guy who knows how to play the position.

 

He's got a shot to challenge Tyrod for starter, and if Tyrod doesn't come through again in crucial spots, Peterman may get on the field this season.

[KollegeStudnet]

Overdorf job on the line 🙏🏿

[JM2009]

No. Whaley picked EJ.

Whaley claimed EJ had the "it" factor. he was instrumental in that pick. Nix was phased out. Finally fired today.

Overdorf job on the line

Overdorf will be gone when the new GM is in place.

[Strethor]

Yeah, if they all knew Whaley was gone in a few days, why in the world would they allow that? very strange.

I am sure nobody told them, because their information had value to the Bills. It's a really !@#$ed up way of dealing with things in life - but I guess its effective!

[NoSaint]

I get what you're saying, but this has to be encouraging for the older vets at the same time, right? Pegulas aren't just gonna keep doing the same old thing.

Unless they think this is more of the same in some sense? I don't know but am curious

[Augie]

Might as well say it now, Bills are due in 2022!!!

That's very catchy!

[FireChan]

Unless they think this is more of the same in some sense? I don't know but am curious

Whaley has been here since 2010. That was the last major shakeup top to bottom of the FO.

 

That's not more of the same. IMO.

[Augie]

Due for what?

I hope it's better than an STD. Justnholding out hope.....

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

TP hasn't worked with anyone in NFL front offices prior to him buying the team and having Whaley as his GM. Can't help but wonder if TP was happy with Doug, planned to keep him around for awhile yet, Has DW determine new HC and he picks McDermott. Now McDermott is here, TP has many conversations with him and all of a sudden realizes, wow this is what a smart NFL leader is really like and how bad the front office really is. Decides then to let him go after the draft.

 

Everyone wants to crucify Russ, but he really has limited experience too other than working with Marv and Buddy, neihter of which was a great front office guy, so Russ too could easily have been swayed by Whaley.

[Buffalo86]

TP hasn't worked with anyone in NFL front offices prior to him buying the team and having Whaley as his GM. Can't help but wonder if TP was happy with Doug, planned to keep him around for awhile yet, Has DW determine new HC and he picks McDermott. Now McDermott is here, TP has many conversations with him and all of a sudden realizes, wow this is what a smart NFL leader is really like and how bad the front office really is. Decides then to let him go after the draft.

 

Everyone wants to crucify Russ, but he really has limited experience too other than working with Marv and Buddy, neihter of which was a great front office guy, so Russ too could easily have been swayed by Whaley.

 

I think it's much more likely that Whaley was swayed by Brandon, being that he & Nix were Whaley's mentors. Consider this quote from Whaley:

 

"Here it is in a nutshell: we’re a national brand now with Rex,” Whaley siad to Don Banks of Sports Illustrated. "What I tell people is, during the combine, when Bill Belichick was walking with Rex Ryan that day? The story wasn’t about Bill Belichick, and this was right after the Patriots won the Super Bowl. The story was about Rex Ryan wearing Thurman Thomas’s jersey. When would you ever have thought that? That’s all you’ve got to say."

 

What NFL GM would give a crap about that? Those sounded more like the words of a marketing guy than a GM.

[NoSaint]

Whaley has been here since 2010. That was the last major shakeup top to bottom of the FO.

 

That's not more of the same. IMO.

Unless you are a player that views it as continued constant dysfunction. Then a player may be skeptical of this being the cure instead of another symptom of what's wrong

[DrDawkinstein]

 

You have to understand that Buddy Nix was the guy who promoted him to GM. Nix was a mentor of sorts. Nix wanted to pick a QB before he left. He wasn't going to throw Nix under the bus in his retirement, so he continued defending the decision. I admire him for that. That's what a decent human being does. That's what a good person does. He could have shied away from it, but he didn't.

 

I think the real beef between Whaley and Marrone was that Whaley saw that his drafted QB wasn't getting the proper coaching and development. The argument between them was that Whaley wanted resources dedicated to QB development, while Marrone wouldn't even hire a true QB coach (there was no QB coach on staff for EJ's rookie year, all he had was Hackett).

 

Say what you want about EJ now, but I dont blame any GM for pushing for better coaching and development for his rookie QB. Whaley never "forced" his QB on anyone, and obviously brought in other options. All he wanted was for his guy to get the best chance to succeed, and Marrone could never cooperate.

 

 

 

 

I think it's much more likely that Whaley was swayed by Brandon, being that he & Nix were Whaley's mentors. Consider this quote from Whaley:

 

"Here it is in a nutshell: we’re a national brand now with Rex,” Whaley siad to Don Banks of Sports Illustrated. "What I tell people is, during the combine, when Bill Belichick was walking with Rex Ryan that day? The story wasn’t about Bill Belichick, and this was right after the Patriots won the Super Bowl. The story was about Rex Ryan wearing Thurman Thomas’s jersey. When would you ever have thought that? That’s all you’ve got to say."

 

What NFL GM would give a crap about that? Those sounded more like the words of a marketing guy than a GM.

 

Did you read the rest of the article or even the headline? Banks was purposely writing and asking about "star power".

 

Also from the article that leads up to Whaley's quote:

 

 

the Bills tended to go with unproven first-time head coaches like Marrone, Mularkey or Williams—none of whom lasted more than three years—or they dipped back into the second-time-around market, choosing solid but low-profile head coaches who had experienced only limited success in their first NFL gigs. Levy, Phillips, Jauron and Gailey all fit neatly into that category...

But under new owners Terry and Kim Pegula, the Bills went bold this time...

during my stop at the Bills, I peppered Buffalo general manager Doug Whaley with questions about the team’s new approach on the coaching front...

Edited May 1, 2017 by DrDareustein

[Simon]

 

I think the real beef between Whaley and Marrone was that Whaley saw that his drafted QB wasn't getting the proper coaching and development. The argument between them was that Whaley wanted resources dedicated to QB development, while Marrone wouldn't even hire a true QB coach (there was no QB coach on staff for EJ's rookie year, all he had was Hackett).

 

Good observation; that was certainly a factor.

But don't totally discount the fact that Marrone treated everybody in the building like complete crap; that really pissed Whaley off.

[Buffalo86]

Did you read the rest of the article or even the headline? Banks was purposely writing and asking about "star power".

 

Also from the article that leads up to Whaley's quote:

 

 

I've read it many times, and don't see the significance of what you're trying to point out. It sounds like you're blaming Banks for having "peppered Buffalo general manager Doug Whaley with questions about the team’s new approach on the coaching front." That monster! What else could Doug say?

[GunnerBill]

No. Whaley picked EJ.

Yea the way that worked is very simple. Nix said we need a QB we are gonna take one with our first pick - trading back if possible. Whaley was tasked with identifying the guy.

 

The decision to go Quarterback in the first in 2013 was Buddy Nix's.

 

The decision to take EJ was Doug Whaley's.

Whaley has been here since 2010. That was the last major shakeup top to bottom of the FO.

 

That's not more of the same. IMO.

Hmmm. They have replaced all the heads of Department under Whaley. Some regional scouts may be the same but Hanrahan, Monos and Fisher were all Doug Whaley appointments.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

No. Whaley picked EJ.

 

I'd ask "what is your evidence" but from the past, I know: "because you believe it"

 

What Whaley has said in the past is "It was a Bills pick" so he owns it - which is the company man speak.