OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 ....wonder how many of the scout staff were long term Wilson era holdovers............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenInLight Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 If there are 3 (let's say Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph) then we are ALL SET. We have the ammo to trade up to #2 if need be (2 1sts in 2018, 2nd in 2018, 1st in 2019, etc). It's happened a couple times recently. Of course, IF Tyrod suddenly improves then that is a great problem to have because we get to use those picks on talent instead. All things considered, we may not need to trade up for a QB.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Terry, we don't have to believe in you because you're the owner. You need to earn the trust. We dont have to believe in because it doesnt matter if we dont. He is the billionaire owner, he can do what he likes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Read above... I've seen that. When was he last time Charles Robinson was a scout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 ....wonder how many of the scout staff were long term Wilson era holdovers............ A surprisingly large number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 @StillTalkinTV There is a leak somewhere since national report 2 days ago that firings were coming. Suggests decision made before today or Whaley knew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 A smartphone does everything a pencil, pad and stop watch, and then some. You don't say? My point being that the person ripping the staffer likely did so based on a general lack of engagement that day. If he was intensely working on his phone then it easily could've been on a great scouting app they used! But I'm going out on a limb that we got the 140 character anecdote about how disengaged the dead man walking was that day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I've seen that. When was he last time Charles Robinson was a scout? And the last time you were? Your last pro day was when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Do you still get around by horse and buggy?So you think the tweeter didnt take into account something not normal and tweet it regardless of technology. Like hey jim where is your items Intraditionally see you with??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 You don't say? My point being that the person ripping the staffer likely did so based on a general lack of engagement that day. If he was intensely working on his phone then it easily could've been on a great scouting app they used! But I'm going out on a limb that we got the 140 character anecdote about how disengaged the dead man walking was that day I believe you are correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Wonder if DW is saying thank god that is over with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 All things considered, we may not need to trade up for a QB.... If McD cant get a better performance from a .500 team than Rex, then why was he given complete control of the organization? If we end up 4-12 next year, that's not a great start to his path of becoming the new Reid/Belichick here. Gasse came into Miami and took them right to the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 And the last time you were? Your last pro day was when? Haha way to turn it and avoid the question. Why is Charles Robinson all of sudden the expert on what a scout should bring to a pro day? Look I get it, let's all jump on the Bills now with all these rumours flying out, it's super easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 So with Monos and Fischer also gone and Overdorf with a sword over his head, is it really wise to zero out your entire organization when it comes to evaluating and signing players? Maybe "continuity" was a bad word here but gutting the place seems extreme. I hope they have people lined up to step in and are not starting from scratch today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Ok then, what exactly is generating all the cries of 'dysfunction' over the firing of a GM with the track record I described? Or is it just the standard Bills fan kicking and screaming out of frustration any time there is a major change at OBD? It's the way the whole offseason played out and the silly explanations today. If you dislike Whaley this move should be done in January. Instead we've had some weird and dysfunctional power structure for months seemingly. And then there's added context of issues outside of this situation we've seen too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 while i think you realize i'm not a big fan of speculation and conjecture and i know you're not. and i know drd isn't and hoping he'll chime back in. but it's multi faceted nonsense. in this situation whaley did not need the power. whaley seemed to have a plan with a power structure different from pegula. pegula wanted the level playing field of management and all things equal. whaley seemed to want the dichotomy of the front office working for the football operations and the coaches working hand in hand with the him. not necessarily an archaic report to the gm and he then assigns the work kind of nonsense but more the "coach you tell me what you want and i'll work to get it" vs pegula's "coach tell us what you want and we will work to get it." Not quite sure if your take is that significantly different from mine. But given that neither of us have concrete proof of what went on inside the organization, we just have to go by the sequence of events and the ultimate decisions themselves. Suffice to say that I am not going to argue this point with you too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Blam: Charles RobinsonVerified account @CharlesRobinson 2m2 minutes ago Charles Robinson Retweeted No self-respecting personnel man shows to a pro day and does 100% of his work on a cell phone/tablet. C'mon. That's an absurd suggestion. I guess Mr Robinson wasnt informed by Mr. Robot that he is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I guess it's safe to say that from January 1st, 2017 it's all on Sean McDermott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Wonder if DW is saying thank god that is over with? I would venture that if he lost the decision on which coach to hire in January he's been ready to leave since then but didn't want to walk away without his check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 It's the way the whole offseason played out and the silly explanations today. If you dislike Whaley this move should be done in January. Instead we've had some weird and dysfunctional power structure for months seemingly. And then there's added context of issues outside of this situation we've seen too. A - frigin - men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I suppose it is possible, though unlikely, that some of the scouts could be rehired by the new GM. They did seem pretty good at finding some gems on the pro scouting side and I think the drafts have been pretty reasonable. I think the angst over last year's picks is way overblown. Shaquille Lawso should be healthy now and he was highly regarded - also sounds like he is ready to get to work. Ragland should be healthy as well and has a good chance to help a lot. I know some think he is way too slow, but it isn't like he was running 4.9 forties. Add those two to this year's draft - almost like getting an extra 1st and 2nd this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 With all due respect, this is a massive load of pure bunk Well no actually. Whether by unenlightened design or pure chance thats pretty much the way it actually played out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCN Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Pegula said Whaley put it all together. Trades sounded like previous Whaley trades Also said the decision to fire DW was made after the post-draft evals. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenInLight Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I don't think that there is anything the league could do, even if true. It would be AWFULLY hard to prove that the Bills stole Carolina's draft info - it isn't like Jones and Dawkins weren't expected to be picked about where they went in the draft. Could Carolina pursue tampering charges if they could prove that someone was leaking info to McDermott? Maybe, but why would a guy in a high level position in Carolina's FO risk undermining his own team by sharing info with McDermott? That would be suicide unless he had a guarantee that he would be hired as Bills' GM - which I doubt Pegula would have allowed. "Hey Terry, Coach McDermott here. Say, I know Doug is getting canned right after the draft - is it OK if I guarantee my buddy from Carolina the job in exchange for information about their draft plans? Trust me, you don't have to meet him or interview anyone else." Is it that big of a stretch that McDermott would have been involved in the draft prep in Carolina as the DC? If he was in charge of the defense, it makes sense that he would be at those meetings to give opinions on players that the HC and GM were looking at, along with the OC. It's not that big of a stretch for McDermott to remember some of the names of the guys being talked about, or even just the positions that were discussed. Also it's no secret that the Panthers needed help at WR and O-line last year. My sister in law's fiance is a huge panther's fan and he's been saying that they need help at those positions all of last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 It's the way the whole offseason played out and the silly explanations today. If you dislike Whaley this move should be done in January. Instead we've had some weird and dysfunctional power structure for months seemingly. And then there's added context of issues outside of this situation we've seen too. You do it now. Its the start of the scouting season. Getting rid of a GM in January is like getting rid of a coach in November, its mid season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strethor Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I'm not a fan of letting the pro scouts go. You don't remove a working organ to fix a broken one. I hope they know what they're doing now. The Buffalo Bills always are functional and know what they are doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Mark Ludwiczak (@marklud12) 4/30/17, 10:00 AM One quick structure note: McDermott comes from the Andy Reid coaching tree in Philly ... where the head coach had more power than the GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I have a feeling Kim Pegula played a big role in Whaley being gone. She seemed really unhappy with him after that disastrous presser that occurred after Rex was canned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 It's the way the whole offseason played out and the silly explanations today. If you dislike Whaley this move should be done in January. Instead we've had some weird and dysfunctional power structure for months seemingly. And then there's added context of issues outside of this situation we've seen too. I get the points others make about letting our board/thought process be known; but come on now - how good has that really been? Is our secret-sauce really that good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Mark Ludwiczak (@marklud12) 4/30/17, 10:00 AM One quick structure note: McDermott comes from the Andy Reid coaching tree in Philly ... where the head coach had more power than the GM. Was Reid given that power from Day 1 at Philly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 (edited) A surprisingly large number. ...interesting......read all the adjectives around here as well as media about dysfunctional, clueless, Pegula=Haslam, Marrone exodus, Wrecks circus, etc., and you wonder how many internally didn't really give a rat's azz anymore?...."nice to meet you, where do you work"?....."I'd rather not say".... Edited April 30, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenInLight Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 If McD cant get a better performance from a .500 team than Rex, then why was he given complete control of the organization? If we end up 4-12 next year, that's not a great start to his path of becoming the new Reid/Belichick here. Gasse came into Miami and took them right to the playoffs. Ever heard of Tanking? It's what the Colts did for Luck. Not to mention a lot of the talking heads seem to think 4-12 is a distinct possibility next year. Unless you didn't read their "predictions". If Tyrod continues to trend down next year, and Sammy gets hurt again, I don't see our offense doing much scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Is it that big of a stretch that McDermott would have been involved in the draft prep in Carolina as the DC? If he was in charge of the defense, it makes sense that he would be at those meetings to give opinions on players that the HC and GM were looking at, along with the OC. It's not that big of a stretch for McDermott to remember some of the names of the guys being talked about, or even just the positions that were discussed. Also it's no secret that the Panthers needed help at WR and O-line last year. My sister in law's fiance is a huge panther's fan and he's been saying that they need help at those positions all of last year. You think mid week during the season your D.C. is sitting in scouting meetings... and ones for offensive players at that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 As it stands right now with the Bills, what experienced GM is going to want to take that job? As I said up thread, it only seems like an assistant GM that is approved by McDermott and a yes man will fill the bill. IMO TPegs is going to have trouble filling the GM position. Exactly, that's why it's not good practice to dog your GM to your 43 year old first time head coach. McDermott should have been surprised by this move as much as anyone. This way the Pegulas give themselves more options in finding a GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I have a feeling Kim Pegula played a big role in Whaley being gone. She seemed really unhappy with him after that disastrous presser that occurred after Rex was canned. Was Kim interviewed afterwards? Maybe I missed it. Just curious because you rarely hear from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Also said the decision to fire DW was made after the post-draft evals. Really? What do you expect him to say? "We were lukewarm on Whaley back in January because we want our GM to be competent as a public figure and represent the Bills well and Whaley does not do that. Not to mention other poor decisions he's made over the years. But weren't totally on board with firing him quite yet. That is until McDermott knocked our socks off during his first two months on the job. We asked Sean if he knows anyone who could replace Whaley as GM and he gave us a couple of names from the Panthers. We didn't want to fire Whaley and his scouts before the draft because we didn't want to show our cards to other teams and scouting changes are always made after the draft." This is the truth but unfortunately he can't say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Exactly, that's why it's not good practice to dog your GM to your 43 year old first time head coach. McDermott should have been surprised by this move as much as anyone. This way the Pegulas give themselves more options in finding a GM. ....not if the plan all along was to dip into the Panthers' well......stay tuned.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd1 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Well this was a fab way to start a Sunday. What a major major dysfunctional organization. I was and am a Whaley supporter despite some moves which I clearly blame him for. Those that wanted Whaley, go their wish. But be careful what you wish for. If the past couple of years are the way the organization is going to be run, we have definite reasons for pessimism. It is not as much as Whaley being fired but it is about how he was given the short end of the stick. He was continually saddled with decisions he had no say over but was axed for the results. And then there is the timing. What changed between January and now ? If he was to be gone, he should have been fired along with Ryan. It would still be the wrong decision, but at least the new GM would come in with the new coaching staff. This reeks of terrible terrible mis management. Finally, as BADOL immediately pointed out, if we replace Whaley with a Panthers staffer, be assured of an investigation into tampering. One we will lose, along with a pick or more. I absolutely HATE this move and the way it went down. Just besides myself with anger right now. I do owe apologies to (1) The BillsVets of the world who I constantly disagreed with regarding the dysfunction of the organization (2) Those who have been saying that Whaley will be let go after the draft, cos I said it made zero sense Did I say I am friggin pi$$ed ? If I get a warning over this, it will be well worth it. I'm right there with you brother! For those of you celebrating - just because Whaley is gone, does not mean the organization is better. The powers that be could replace him with someone MUCH WORSE. The Pegulas seem to be easily charmed - the Bills future is really just a crap shoot. $h!t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Was Reid given that power from Day 1 at Philly? No but more coaches hired these days are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I have a feeling Kim Pegula played a big role in Whaley being gone. She seemed really unhappy with him after that disastrous presser that occurred after Rex was canned. She wasn't the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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