Who are the Bills "freakazoids" or potential "freakazoids"?

[Beck Water]

Emmanuel Acho (I think) on "Speak!" alluded to every team having 3 or so "freakazoids", freakishly talented players who could ruin your day at any time during the game.

 

Who are the Bills "freakazoids" on offense, defense, and ST?

 

Offense: 

Josh Allen, no question

I think James Cook has freakazoid potential, but to date, not fully realized - too many drops in the passing game, some amazing runs and some stuffs.

I think Dalton Kincaid could grow into a freakazoid but not there yet

Really, that's it.  Dion Dawkins is a freakishly athletic "big guy" who does a good job, but it's hard for me to call him a "freakazoid".

 

Defense:

Matt Milano

would we give this to Ed Oliver, the last season and a half?  He's been claiming more and more snaps, and had 9.5 sacks last year - which isn't Justin Madubuike,  I think is 4th for DT and is one fewer than Nick Bosa or Chris Jones?  

what about Terrel Bernard?  he was 12th for combined tackles in the league last year - not Roquan Smith, but he's getting up there.

 

ST:

I got no one.  They're all gone, and Bass-o-matic seemed to have the "yips".

 

[vtnatefootball11]

Other than Allen, we don't have one.  Many people have kind of made this point that while we have an above average roster overall at almost every level, with many good players, we don't really have any true elite players, like game wrecker types, other than Allen.

[KDIGGZ]

[Warcodered]

We had Siran Neal on STs I think, I remember that still of him having like 3 guys on him as a gunner but he fell off which is too bad.

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

We had Siran Neal on STs I think, I remember that still of him having like 3 guys on him as a gunner but he fell off which is too bad.

he and matakavich were quite talented on ST.

 

tawain jones was also solid a few years ago.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Ours happens to be the single most important position in all of sports. So he counts as 3 himself.

[Cash]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Ours happens to be the single most important position in all of sports. So he counts as 3 himself.

 

I was going to say Allen should count double.

 

BW, I mostly agree with your list.  A few thoughts to add:

• Von Miller was supposed to be one of them on defense.  It was looking good until he got hurt.  There's still a chance (I'd say about 5%) that he gives us some level of Freakazoid play in 2024.
• Rousseau has the talent to get there, but hasn't shown it over the course of a full season yet.  Two years ago, he was on pace for like 15 sacks or something when he got hurt.  Last year, he spent a ton of time at RE, and was significantly less effective there than at LE.  There's still hope, but it would be wishful thinking to include him on the freakazoid list.

[Beck Water]

22 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

We had Siran Neal on STs I think, I remember that still of him having like 3 guys on him as a gunner but he fell off which is too bad.

 

20 minutes ago, boyst said:

he and matakavich were quite talented on ST.

 

tawain jones was also solid a few years ago.

 

I agree with you both, but who we got now?

[uticaclub]

Diggs, White, Poyer & Hyde were on that list until they aged out. You are never going to replace those individual players but you need at least find that level of talent at other positions

[MrEpsYtown]

I would say Josh, Milano, Ed Oliver...Kincaid maybe eventually. 

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, Cash said:

 

I was going to say Allen should count double.

 

BW, I mostly agree with your list.  A few thoughts to add:

• Von Miller was supposed to be one of them on defense.  It was looking good until he got hurt.  There's still a chance (I'd say about 5%) that he gives us some level of Freakazoid play in 2024.
• Rousseau has the talent to get there, but hasn't shown it over the course of a full season yet.  Two years ago, he was on pace for like 15 sacks or something when he got hurt.  Last year, he spent a ton of time at RE, and was significantly less effective there than at LE.  There's still hope, but it would be wishful thinking to include him on the freakazoid list.

 

I think that kind of sums up where we are.  I thought about including Von on the freakazoid list, and didn't, for the same reason you cite.

 

In terms of roster planning, Beane had us lined up to have 2 freakazoids on offense - Allen and Diggs, with Kincaid and Cook as freakazoids-in-training.

 

He had us lined up to have 4 freakazoids on defense - Von Miller, Ed Oliver, Matt Milano, and Tre White, with Rousseau and Bernard as freakazoids-in-training.

 

Then injuries took out Tre White, Von Miller, and Milano, and the "very intelligent, thoughtful, and self-aware" Diggs couldn't figure out how to manage a good relationship with his QB (who Palmer has said is "a sweetheart, but I wouldn't want to mess with him")

 

So we're paying big cap # for two departed former freakazoids in White and Diggs, and two once-were freakazoids who we hope get it back.

 

8 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Diggs, White, Poyer & Hyde were on that list until they aged out. You are never going to replace those individual players but you need at least find that level of talent at other positions

 

I agree on Diggs and White until they got traded/injured/cut (they haven't quite aged out.

 

I respectfully disagree on Poyer and Hyde, and I LOVED Dr Poyer and Mr Hyde.  But they were never freakazoids.  They were players whose Football IQ, synchrony and hard work made them a far greater whole than the sum of their physical abilities.

Edited April 11 by Beck Water

[boyst]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

I agree with you both, but who we got now?

don't you dare forget Reid Ferguson!

[uticaclub]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

I agree on Diggs and White until they got traded/injured/cut (they haven't quite aged out.

 

I respectfully disagree on Poyer and Hyde, and I LOVED Dr Poyer and Mr Hyde.  But they were never freakazoids.  They were players whose Football IQ, synchrony and hard work made them a far greater whole than the sum of their physical abilities.

I billieve their high level football IQ & work ethic is what would put them in the “freakazoid” category. Hyde & Poyer could put them in better positions to make plays than someone who was a better athlete. 

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, uticaclub said:

I billieve their high level football IQ & work ethic is what would put them in the “freakazoid” category. Hyde & Poyer could put them in better positions to make plays than someone who was a better athlete. 

 

Fair take.  If so, Terrell Bernard may earn "freakazoid" status.

[uticaclub]

9 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Fair take.  If so, Terrell Bernard may earn "freakazoid" status.

I hope so.

[eSJayDee]

I think on offense, besides obviously JA, Knox might qualify.  He's certainly inconsistent, but he makes some amazing catches & has been known to run people over.

[ddaryl]

right now Allen is it


potentially Kincaid, Milano if he returns to form. Same goes for Von

Oliver has moments but I would not put him on the list at this junction

[Charles Romes]

Rousseau if he was more consistent. 

[BBFL]

2 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

Rousseau if he was more consistent. 

Hopefully. 
 

Like others have said, which is sad, it’s only Josh. 

[Yantha]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

Emmanuel Acho (I think) on "Speak!" alluded to every team having 3 or so "freakazoids", freakishly talented players who could ruin your day at any time during the game.

 

Who are the Bills "freakazoids" on offense, defense, and ST?

 

Offense: 

Josh Allen, no question

I think James Cook has freakazoid potential, but to date, not fully realized - too many drops in the passing game, some amazing runs and some stuffs.

I think Dalton Kincaid could grow into a freakazoid but not there yet

Really, that's it.  Dion Dawkins is a freakishly athletic "big guy" who does a good job, but it's hard for me to call him a "freakazoid".

 

Defense:

Matt Milano

would we give this to Ed Oliver, the last season and a half?  He's been claiming more and more snaps, and had 9.5 sacks last year - which isn't Justin Madubuike,  I think is 4th for DT and is one fewer than Nick Bosa or Chris Jones?  

what about Terrel Bernard?  he was 12th for combined tackles in the league last year - not Roquan Smith, but he's getting up there.

 

ST:

I got no one.  They're all gone, and Bass-o-matic seemed to have the "yips".

 

 

If an NFL team has more than 3 freakazoids, that's a good team.

 

I say we have ONE, but my definition of freakazoid is a first ballot HOFer.

 

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Groot and Spencer Brown are both physical freaks.  Seeing them in person is awe inspiring.  Giants among human beings.  Throw Josh in there too.

[BBFL]

3 minutes ago, Yantha said:

 

If an NFL team has more than 3 freakazoids, that's a good team.

 

I say we have ONE, but my definition of freakazoid is a first ballot HOFer.

 

 

I think that’s fair. If not a HOF, multiple All-Pro. 
 

Ed and Milano are the only guys who stand a chance right now. 
 

Cook, Kincaid, Groot and Cyrus have the potential. 

[Mat68]

Allen by far.  Only one that comes to mind is Oliver.  He has the ability to blow a game up.  Miller had that ability before his injury.  Thats why im pegging 60 for dline.  Need someone with that ability or potential.  

[hondo in seattle]

4 hours ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

Other than Allen, we don't have one.  Many people have kind of made this point that while we have an above average roster overall at almost every level, with many good players, we don't really have any true elite players, like game wrecker types, other than Allen.

 

100% agree.  And I think that's been Beane's problem thus far. 

 

He did pick Josh.  And he builds good rosters with solid depth.  But Josh is the only elite player on the roster.  Beane needs to get us more game-changers in the draft because he hasn't left himself enough cap money to do it any other way.  

 

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, eSJayDee said:

I think on offense, besides obviously JA, Knox might qualify.  He's certainly inconsistent, but he makes some amazing catches & has been known to run people over.

 

I think if you got a guy whose best season so far is 49 catches and 587 yds, he's not in the same category as the TE "Freakazoids" Kelse, Kittle, Hockinson, Engram who are putting up more than 900 yds.  So, "No" to qualifying Knox.

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

Other than Allen, we don't have one.  Many people have kind of made this point that while we have an above average roster overall at almost every level, with many good players, we don't really have any true elite players, like game wrecker types, other than Allen.

 

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

100% agree.  And I think that's been Beane's problem thus far. 

 

He did pick Josh.  And he builds good rosters with solid depth.  But Josh is the only elite player on the roster.  Beane needs to get us more game-changers in the draft because he hasn't left himself enough cap money to do it any other way.  

 

 

I think you're both "on to" something here, and it's actually been my contention.

 

Many people like to fault McDermott or Frazier (usually McDermott to my eye) for the defense falling apart in the playoffs.  

 

I see it differently.  I see it as McDermott and Beane built a defense where "the whole is much greater than the sum of the parts".  But, it had no true game-wreckers on defense.  So if enough of the component parts were missing due to injury, or if one component makes a mistake - poor or mediocre teams will still be slowed enough to win.  But the best offenses will drill into those weaknesses or individual miscues on any one play, and absolutely EXPLOIT them, and we have lacked the  "freakazoid" defensive game changers to overcome that issue.

 

I don't entirely fault Beane for this.  He tried to acquire game wreckers.  Tre White was the first.  Then Ed Oliver, who took a while to "get after it".  He drafted Rousseau, who, to be fair, has a higher wAV than any other DL in that draft and within 5 sacks of Jaelen Phillips.  He tried to double down with Basham, after using a 2nd round pick on his body-remodeling project in Epenesa the year before.  When those 3 weren't "cutting the mustard" in 2021, he went out and made a big FA splash by signing Von Miller.
 

But Miller, and our 2017 1st round "freakazoid" Tre White, got injured and weren't the same for the next season.  Then, just when Tre White looked like he might be coming back, injured again.  Some Days You Da Windshield, Some Days You Da Bug.

 

There's some bad injury luck there.  There are also some legit questions "did we grab the right guy?" (Ed Oliver over Jeffery Simmons, say? Epenesa over Greenard or Woonum? Kaiir Elam over Roger McCreary or Cam Taylor-Britt?)

 

It's the same thing with offense.  We have Allen, we had Diggs, and then we had a bunch of "good" players who could win against most teams, but be taken out by the best defenses especially when the refs put away the laundry and say "let 'em play" in the playoffs.

But no GM is perfect or gets it all right, and some of the teams that are championship-caliber have had some good luck - having "Mr Irrelevant" turn out to be a capable NFL QB, for example; or having a 7th round RB turn out to be a fightin' dog of an RB.  

 

There seems to be an element of luck in the whole thing as well.

 

3 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Groot and Spencer Brown are both physical freaks.  Seeing them in person is awe inspiring.  Giants among human beings.  Throw Josh in there too.

 

This is true.  But so far, Groot seems to have an element of "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" in his makeup, and Spencer Brown doesn't seem to have quick enough feet.

Edited April 11 by Beck Water

[mrags]

5 hours ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

Other than Allen, we don't have one.  Many people have kind of made this point that while we have an above average roster overall at almost every level, with many good players, we don't really have any true elite players, like game wrecker types, other than Allen.

This 100%

[mrags]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

I think you're both "on to" something here, and it's actually been my contention.

 

Many people like to fault McDermott or Frazier (usually McDermott to my eye) for the defense falling apart in the playoffs.  

 

I see it differently.  I see it as McDermott and Beane built a defense where "the whole is much greater than the sum of the parts".  But, it had no true game-wreckers on defense.  So if enough of the component parts were missing due to injury, or if one component makes a mistake - poor or mediocre teams will still be slowed enough to win.  But the best offenses will drill into those weaknesses or individual miscues on any one play, and absolutely EXPLOIT them, and we have lacked the  "freakazoid" defensive game changers to overcome that issue.

 

I don't entirely fault Beane for this.  He tried to acquire game wreckers.  Tre White was the first.  Then Ed Oliver, who took a while to "get after it".  He drafted Rousseau, who, to be fair, has a higher wAV than any other DL in that draft and within 5 sacks of Jaelen Phillips.  He tried to double down with Basham, after using a 2nd round pick on his body-remodeling project in Epenesa the year before.  When those 3 weren't "cutting the mustard" in 2021, he went out and made a big FA splash by signing Von Miller.
 

But Miller, and our 2017 1st round "freakazoid" Tre White, got injured and weren't the same for the next season.  Then, just when Tre White looked like he might be coming back, injured again.  Some Days You Da Windshield, Some Days You Da Bug.

 

There's some bad injury luck there.  There are also some legit questions "did we grab the right guy?" (Ed Oliver over Jeffery Simmons, say? Epenesa over Greenard or Woonum? Kaiir Elam over Roger McCreary or Cam Taylor-Britt?)

 

It's the same thing with offense.  We have Allen, we had Diggs, and then we had a bunch of "good" players who could win against most teams, but be taken out by the best defenses especially when the refs put away the laundry and say "let 'em play" in the playoffs.

But no GM is perfect or gets it all right, and some of the teams that are championship-caliber have had some good luck - having "Mr Irrelevant" turn out to be a capable NFL QB, for example; or having a 7th round RB turn out to be a fightin' dog of an RB.  

 

There seems to be an element of luck in the whole thing as well.

 

 

This is true.  But so far, Groot seems to have an element of "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" in his makeup, and Spencer Brown doesn't seem to have quick enough feet.

I pretty much agree with all of it expect the parts about McDermott working with what he’s got. 
 

imo McDermott has much more say on the roster and draft picks than people want to give him credit for. We’ve all known that McDermott answers directly to Pegula. Imo he gets what he wants in the draft and FA. There isn’t a move that Beane makes that doesn’t get McDermotts approval first. 
 

other than Elam, not sure what happened there at all. Because he is not in McDermotts mold at all. Was never a zone guy. Unless McDermott thought about using him another way or what I have no idea. For all we know he fell in love with the fact that Elam brought a notepad with him to the interview and McDermott loves that kind of thing. 

[MiracleAtRich1393]

5 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Diggs, White, Poyer & Hyde were on that list until they aged out. You are never going to replace those individual players but you need at least find that level of talent at other positions

Von was on it for 10 games 😢

[Your Brown Eye]

Pinto Ron does some crazy stuff

[MiracleAtRich1393]

IMO needs to be QB, pass rusher, pass catcher.

 

Mahomes/Chris Jones/Kelce (plus Hill for one SB)

 

Stafford/Donald/Von/Kupp (and OBJ played like one for half the super bowl)

 

Guys that warp the field and command attention. Do things that are unstoppable.

 

 

Had Josh/Von/Diggs until Von went down in '22. Kincaid doesn't strike fear into the defense (yet, and may never be), Oliver gets erased in the playoffs, Milano is nice but not a guy you game plan around, Samuel & Shakir are nice complementary players.

 

Now it's just Josh. Trade way up for Nabers or Odunze and that gets you to two, then with all the cap space next year get a complete game wrecker pass rusher in his prime. Fill out the rest of the roster with rookie contracts and solid vets. Hope the big 3 are healthy in the playoffs and a couple other guys like Kincaid develop into very good/great players that can exploit the attention the big 3 garner. That's the formula.

[Beck Water]

24 minutes ago, mrags said:

I pretty much agree with all of it expect the parts about McDermott working with what he’s got. 
 

imo McDermott has much more say on the roster and draft picks than people want to give him credit for. We’ve all known that McDermott answers directly to Pegula. Imo he gets what he wants in the draft and FA. There isn’t a move that Beane makes that doesn’t get McDermotts approval first. 
 

other than Elam, not sure what happened there at all. Because he is not in McDermotts mold at all. Was never a zone guy. Unless McDermott thought about using him another way or what I have no idea. For all we know he fell in love with the fact that Elam brought a notepad with him to the interview and McDermott loves that kind of thing. 

 

Where was the parts about McDermott "working with what he's got"?

 

I think McDermott's vision of the ideal defense actually is, 'selfless guys all working their utmost to lift the team to the skies' or some such vision, vs. a "Stars and JAGS" model, and he had to be pulled towards the idea of needing a few "freakazoid" stars kicking and screaming, by experience.

As far as Elam, Lance Zierline on NFL.com (I find myself nodding in agreement often, when I go back and read his takes) said this about Elam:

"He plays with good awareness in zone and has the twitch and length to make plays on the throw when squatting in space.".  Someone here who watches a lot of Florida games said that they played zone more than people thought (I think he said 30 or 40%) with Elam, and he wasn't the man2man specialist some portrayed him as.  Take that for whatever it's worth to you.

My personal take is that we thought we could coach him out of his known flaws (weak in run support, grabby with receivers, technique flaws) but so far, we haven't managed that.

 

 

[mrags]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Where was the parts about McDermott "working with what he's got"?

 

I think McDermott's vision of the ideal defense actually is, 'selfless guys all working their utmost to lift the team to the skies' or some such vision, vs. a "Stars and JAGS" model, and he had to be pulled towards the idea of needing a few "freakazoid" stars kicking and screaming, by experience.

As far as Elam, Lance Zierline on NFL.com (I find myself nodding in agreement often, when I go back and read his takes) said this about Elam:

"He plays with good awareness in zone and has the twitch and length to make plays on the throw when squatting in space.".  Someone here who watches a lot of Florida games said that they played zone more than people thought (I think he said 30 or 40%) with Elam, and he wasn't the man2man specialist some portrayed him as.  Take that for whatever it's worth to you.

My personal take is that we thought we could coach him out of his known flaws (weak in run support, grabby with receivers, technique flaws) but so far, we haven't managed that.

 

 

“Many people like to fault McDermott or Frazier (usually McDermott to my eye) for the defense falling apart in theplayoffs.  

 

I see it differently.  I see it as McDermott and Beane built a defense where "the whole is much greater than the sum of the parts".

 

This is what I’m referring to. They fall apart in the playoffs because they were never really that great anyway. In the playoffs it’s more about good coaching than regular season imo. It’s when the best of the best coaches (generally) have the upper hand. McDermott has been outcoached in the playoffs against superior coaches imo. 
 

But my point as still that I believe McDermott has his hands in the draft picks and FAs more than people think. He has a personal preference for players imo. Good guys that are good team mates. Lunch Pail took kind of guys. End of the day he needs to get over it and get some guys that are just monsters that can play. Not everyone is a choir boy. Need to have some nasties on the team.

 

i don’t know what happened with Elam. Why they don’t like him. But I’ll say this, he’s got 3 ints (I think) in important situations when we needed it. Pretty sure 2 or 3 in the playoffs or games leading to the playoffs. Yet they feel he doesn’t deserve to be on the field. Not sure what their issue is with him but it doesn’t make sense to me. 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

It's Allen and potentially Von Miller. Anyone else is a reach.

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

I think you're both "on to" something here, and it's actually been my contention.

 

Many people like to fault McDermott or Frazier (usually McDermott to my eye) for the defense falling apart in the playoffs.  

 

I see it differently.  I see it as McDermott and Beane built a defense where "the whole is much greater than the sum of the parts".  But, it had no true game-wreckers on defense.  So if enough of the component parts were missing due to injury, or if one component makes a mistake - poor or mediocre teams will still be slowed enough to win.  But the best offenses will drill into those weaknesses or individual miscues on any one play, and absolutely EXPLOIT them, and we have lacked the  "freakazoid" defensive game changers to overcome that issue.

 

I don't entirely fault Beane for this.  He tried to acquire game wreckers.  Tre White was the first.  Then Ed Oliver, who took a while to "get after it".  He drafted Rousseau, who, to be fair, has a higher wAV than any other DL in that draft and within 5 sacks of Jaelen Phillips.  He tried to double down with Basham, after using a 2nd round pick on his body-remodeling project in Epenesa the year before.  When those 3 weren't "cutting the mustard" in 2021, he went out and made a big FA splash by signing Von Miller.
 

But Miller, and our 2017 1st round "freakazoid" Tre White, got injured and weren't the same for the next season.  Then, just when Tre White looked like he might be coming back, injured again.  Some Days You Da Windshield, Some Days You Da Bug.

 

There's some bad injury luck there.  There are also some legit questions "did we grab the right guy?" (Ed Oliver over Jeffery Simmons, say? Epenesa over Greenard or Woonum? Kaiir Elam over Roger McCreary or Cam Taylor-Britt?)

 

It's the same thing with offense.  We have Allen, we had Diggs, and then we had a bunch of "good" players who could win against most teams, but be taken out by the best defenses especially when the refs put away the laundry and say "let 'em play" in the playoffs.

But no GM is perfect or gets it all right, and some of the teams that are championship-caliber have had some good luck - having "Mr Irrelevant" turn out to be a capable NFL QB, for example; or having a 7th round RB turn out to be a fightin' dog of an RB.  

 

There seems to be an element of luck in the whole thing as well.

 

 

This is true.  But so far, Groot seems to have an element of "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" in his makeup, and Spencer Brown doesn't seem to have quick enough feet.

 

Absolutely agree.  

 

"The whole is greater than the sum of its parts..."  That's exactly how I see McD's defense.  I don't think he gets enough credit for our excellent regular season defensive performance over the years.  He creates elite defenses with a paucity of elite players.  That - and injuries - is why we don't excel in the playoffs.  McD's magic fails when we lose too many one-on-one battles against elite players in the playoffs. 

 

Somebody mentioned Poyer and Hyde as a freakazoid combo.  I agree.  I don't know if either was individually elite but, man, they played well together.  I think a number of things contributed to that: their communication and teamwork, the fact they were interchangeable, their football IQ, and McD's defensive scheme.   

 

Tre was freakazoid but drafted right before Beane came onboard as I recall.   But Beane is trying.  Diggs was a freak but expensive and possibly a distraction.  Von should have been a freak but he was also expensive, and injuries have limited his impact.   

 

We can't keep paying top dollar for game-changing players.  We need to draft some.  Beane did draft Allen but that was in 2018.  I want Beane to be good enough to draft one freak each year.   That would get us to the Super Bowl.  

[stevestojan]

Milano. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

In no way do I see James Cook as a freak. What elite quality does he have? He is an okay RB. He does a few things well, some things okay, and other things poorly. I cannot imagine he strikes fear into his opponents the way this title would deserve. 

[Wizard]

Josh Allen is the only one. 

[Stads]

Does Sam Martin pulling a hammy against the Steelers elevate him into the conversation?