CURTIS SAMUEL A BILL

[nucci]

He's a really good player

[st pete gogolak]

It’s interesting that Curtis Samuel is a poor man’s Deebo Samuel.  

[Commish]

Looks good in the open field on a double reverse:

https://www.panthers.com/video/curtis-samuel-excites-on-crazy-double-reverse-td-run

[MAJBobby]

One other thing about Samuel that allows and I am sure it has been mentioned.  Is now you do not have to panic in the draft and trade up for an Elam because you had no other option.  This preserves their flexibility in the draft and takes the pressure off getting that NO 2 WR at all costs and making a costly trade in draft because you get worried at the drop off on your board.  Samuel will allow you to go to that next tier of WRs that you have as future No1 but need development. 

[BillsVet]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFan said:

Shakir vs Samuel in 2023

 

Shakir 39/45, 611 yds, 2 TDs, 15.7 yds/r, Catch % 86.7, 17 catches of 20+, 282 yds YAC, 7.2 yds yac/r, 0 drops  (The 7.2 tds yac/r was 3rd in the NFL for receivers with 20 or more receptions.)

 

Samuel 62/91, 613 yds, 4 TDs, 9.9 yds/r, Catch % 68.1, 11 catches of 20+, 260 yds YAC, 4.2 yds yac/r, 2 drops

 

Maybe the guy throwing them the ball helped one guy's production versus having inhibited the other.    

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Now I sort of like the idea of adding Worthy. 

3 slots and 0 x’s?

[Sweats]

14 hours ago, Steptide said:

So - 

Diggs

Samuel

Shakir

Draft 

Draft

Everyone else is expendable 

 

Edit - totally forgot about hollins 😬

 

 

 

 

Well, he's easily forgettable

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Samual absolutely can play outside, but a unique quality our top 3 WRs now have is outside/slot flexibility. All 3 are effective in the slot, and all 3 are effective out wide. 
 

Samuel reminds me SO MUCH of prime John Brown. 
 

Kincaid/Knox also are effective in the slot, Cook out wide. 
 

Brady must be drooling. 

Edited March 15 by TheyCallMeAndy

[Dr. Who]

14 minutes ago, NewEra said:

3 slots and 0 x’s?

If you read through the subsequent thread, you'll see that I explained that it was mainly a joke, and that I hope we get one of Thomas, Mitchell, Legette, or Coleman, with that order of preference.

Edited March 15 by Dr. Who

[Solomon Grundy]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah not getting DHop was just idiotic.   Hopkins was extraordinary AGAIN in 2023 despite a totally unstable QB situation.

 

 I like Samuel and the nice thing is that he likely has that 600 yard kinda "floor" but might also have the upside to be a poor man's Diggs replacement in 2025 if they decide to cut bait from Stefon.    It just would have been so much simpler to have a full size outside WR like Hopkins.   I understand there was some risk with Hopkins but his skillset was pretty unique and man..............could that offense have been explosive.

I believe they thought Davis could be that guy. He wasn't!! Could Keon Coleman be that guy? 

[Warriorspikes51]

2 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Samual absolutely can play outside, but a unique quality our top 3 WRs now have is outside/slot flexibility. All 3 are effective in the slot, and all 3 are effective out wide. 
 

Samuel reminds me SO MUCH of prime John Brown. 
 

Kincaid/Knox also are effective in the slot, Cook out wide. 
 

Brady must be drooling. 

IMO Samuel is a much tougher player. He can actually break tackles and get yards after contact. 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

If you read through the subsequent thread, you'll see that I explained that it was mainly a joke, and that I hope we get one of Thomas, Mitchell, Legette, or Coleman, with that order of preference.

Copy that. I had to ask because I thought it was so unlike you!  
 

No time for entire threads anymore!  🤣 

 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

IMO Samuel is a much tougher player. He can actually break tackles and get yards after contact. 

Agree, like John Brown+ 

 

THAT is the kind of WR Allen loves, though. I’m legitimately pumped for this WR room, I think after the draft we will be even happier. 

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I believe they thought Davis could be that guy. He wasn't!! Could Keon Coleman be that guy? 

No

[GASabresIUFan]

30 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Maybe the guy throwing them the ball helped one guy's production versus having inhibited the other.    

Samuel stats have been similar to last year regardless if it was Cam Newton or Teddy Bridgewater or whomever played in Wash.  

[Roundybout]

14 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

LOL.  You beat me to the punch.  I used "corpse" for Newton, "broken" works too!

Haha I thought about that, but Cam was actually pretty decent in 2017. Then he absolutely fell apart, literally. 

[JohnNord]

15 hours ago, FireChans said:

thank u beane god

You can look at this two different ways:

 

Positive.  
Samuel knows the Brady offense and had his best season with Joe as his OC.  He also brings a dimension of speed and explosiveness has been lacking.  Brady has also shown that he can utilize the talent better than Dorsey could as evidenced by James Cook, Khalil Shakir, Ty Johnson, and Dalton Kincaid who all came on after he took over.

 

Negative.

Samuel runs 70% of his snaps out of slot.  The Bills have Shakir who established himself as an upcoming slot receiver.  Is Samuel going to take snaps away from a promising player?  Also at this point in his career Diggs seemed to trending into more of a slot receiver.  

 

You can argue that while Buffalo gets a player with more speed, they now have 3 WR’s best suited for slot WR and not a true outside WR unless you include Hollis.

 

Either way it’s a signal that Buffalo is doubling down on what Brady wants to do on offense.  They tried the same under Ken Dorsey and he never found a way to really get the most out of players like OJ Howard, James Cook, or Nyheim Hines.  Hopefully that changes 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

So does Ladd.  And you don't know what the exent of Samuel's route tree is.

i'm talking about Ladd not being a great prospect.  Ladd will be a 3rd WR with his skillset and on this team maybe 5th. Samuel will be a 3rd/4th in this offense behind Shakir and a rookie.

[Billsatlastin2018]

15 hours ago, Behindenemylines said:

Just adds to the in-game excitement!  
 

 

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

Dunno about you, but “in game excitement” wasn’t what I was shouting to my buddies when Gabe/Knox… insert your fav… clanged another one!

[Commish]

3 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

You can look at this two different ways:

 

Positive.  
Samuel knows the Brady offense and had his best season with Joe as his OC.  He also brings a dimension of speed and explosiveness has been lacking.  Brady has also shown that he can utilize the talent better than Dorsey could as evidenced by James Cook, Khalil Shakir, Ty Johnson, and Dalton Kincaid who all came on after he took over.

 

Negative.

Samuel runs 70% of his snaps out of slot.  The Bills have Shakir who established himself as an upcoming slot receiver.  Is Samuel going to take snaps away from a promising player?  Also at this point in his career Diggs seemed to trending into more of a slot receiver.  

 

You can argue that while Buffalo gets a player with more speed, they now have 3 WR’s best suited for slot WR and not a true outside WR unless you include Hollis.

 

Either way it’s a signal that Buffalo is doubling down on what Brady wants to do on offense.  They tried the same under Ken Dorsey and he never found a way to really get the most out of players like OJ Howard, James Cook, or Nyheim Hines.  Hopefully that changes 

I believe Joe Marino reported yesterday that Samuel runs 49% out of the slot, the remainder out wide or in the backfield.

[Warriorspikes51]

I wonder if we'd have interest in adding KJ Osborn or Van Jefferson as WR 5 ? 

 

 

[DasNootz]

I like the signing and value. 

Maybe it's a "grass is always greener" mindset, but how is Gabe Davis worth 1.5x Samuel or Hollywood Brown in the open market?  I understand  that he's younger, but his health has always been an issue.  What am I missing?  He had one historic game several years ago, but otherwise has been very pedestrian.  He never had a 1,000 yard season, never had 50 receptions... despite being in a pass heavy offense with a great QB, and 3 different OCs had a desire/need to get him more involved.

 

 

 

[JohnNord]

5 minutes ago, Commish said:

I believe Joe Marino reported yesterday that Samuel runs 49% out of the slot, the remainder out wide or in the backfield.

I’ve seen several different numbers on his usage.  Not sure why - guess we have to pick someone to be believe

 

 

 

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, DasNootz said:

I like the signing and value. 

Maybe it's a "grass is always greener" mindset, but how is Gabe Davis worth 1.5x Samuel or Hollywood Brown in the open market?  I understand  that he's younger, but his health has always been an issue.  What am I missing?  He had one historic game several years ago, but otherwise has been very pedestrian.  He never had a 1,000 yard season, never had 50 receptions... despite being in a pass heavy offense with a great QB, and 3 different OCs had a desire/need to get him more involved.

 

 

 

He got a lot of mileage out that game and some of the other big plays he’s made.  I wouldn’t call him pedestrian.  I think he’s a good WR2 but like you pointed out he does have some flaws.  My prediction is that he’s the same WR he was in Buffalo.  

[Solomon Grundy]

38 minutes ago, NewEra said:

No

I'm liking Coleman more every day. He reminds me of Michael Thomas with more versatility. Shows an alpha dog mentality

[DasNootz]

10 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

He got a lot of mileage out that game and some of the other big plays he’s made.  I wouldn’t call him pedestrian.  I think he’s a good WR2 but like you pointed out he does have some flaws.  My prediction is that he’s the same WR he was in Buffalo.  

I think he's proven that he's not a good WR2...  If anything he's a below average WR2 and above average WR3.  If he goes on to be a good WR2 or low end WR1 in Jacksonville, it'll be an indictment on our offensive system here.

Edited March 15 by DasNootz

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 hours ago, CSBill said:

 

I read he has not missed a game in two years.

 

2 hours ago, nucci said:

When was he bitten by a snake? 2021 only season his missed significant time.

tell that to my fantasy teams! 
 

I think you guys are right that 2021 was the real injury plagued season. But even when he played the last few years, he always struck me as gimpy, battling through toe injuries and groin injuries and hamstring injuries. 
 

maybe it is just more exaggerated in my mind because I had him in fantasy for a few years, and felt I could never rely on him.

[nucci]

1 minute ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

 

tell that to my fantasy teams! 
 

I think you guys are right that 2021 was the real injury plagued season. But even when he played the last few years, he always struck me as gimpy, battling through toe injuries and groin injuries and hamstring injuries. 
 

maybe it is just more exaggerated in my mind because I had him in fantasy for a few years, and felt I could never rely on him.

Same with me and Tee Higgins

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

7 hours ago, ngbills said:

Have you looked up Samuel’s longest reception each year? His avg reception. Big play threat? Really? 

Yes and have you ever watched him play.  He played a role in Washington that did not take full advantage of his skill set.  His speed and quickness are clearly evident.  If you really doubt his big play ability, look back at his Ohio State video.  He didn't get picked 40th overall for doing nothing.  Allen will be the first good passer that he has played with in the NFL.  He didn't have great air yard stats because of QB play, not because he can't get open down field.

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm liking Coleman more every day. He reminds me of Michael Thomas with more versatility. Shows an alpha dog mentality

And shows very little ability to separate.  That’s my issue with him.  I feel that he’ll be Gabe 2.0 whereas Josh will force him the ball to give the guy a chance to make a play and interceptions will result.  

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

6 minutes ago, nucci said:

Same with me and Tee Higgins

Don’t get me started on Tee! He burned me! 

[ngbills]

7 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

Yes and have you ever watched him play.  He played a role in Washington that did not take full advantage of his skill set.  His speed and quickness are clearly evident.  If you really doubt his big play ability, look back at his Ohio State video.  He didn't get picked 40th overall for doing nothing.  Allen will be the first good passer that he has played with in the NFL.  He didn't have great air yard stats because of QB play, not because he can't get open down field.

He was a rb / wr combo. Actually more of an rb coming out of Ohio state. He has been successful converting to a wr in the nfl but is not what many on this board want to say he is. People think because he is fast that he must be a deep threat. No. Doesn’t mean he is not a good player just not that. And it’s not because how he was used but it was to focus on what he does well. 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

31 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

I like the signing and value. 

Maybe it's a "grass is always greener" mindset, but how is Gabe Davis worth 1.5x Samuel or Hollywood Brown in the open market?  I understand  that he's younger, but his health has always been an issue.  What am I missing?  He had one historic game several years ago, but otherwise has been very pedestrian.  He never had a 1,000 yard season, never had 50 receptions... despite being in a pass heavy offense with a great QB, and 3 different OCs had a desire/need to get him more involved.

 

 

 

No, you're not alone with that thought. 

 

I'm less amazed that Gabe got bank because teams overpay for WR2 all the time. What HAS surprised me is that quality #2 guys are signing for far less than I expected on the market. Spotrac had him at $11.5M AAV and the Bills got him for $8 M a year (with potential void years) and Marquise Brown for $7 M

 

I think the Bills made the more financially sound move.

[ngbills]

37 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I’ve seen several different numbers on his usage.  Not sure why - guess we have to pick someone to be believe

 

 

 

People need to throw out 2021. Didn’t really play. 

 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

2 minutes ago, ngbills said:

He was a rb / wr combo. Actually more of an rb coming out of Ohio state. He has been successful converting to a wr in the nfl but is not what many on this board want to say he is. People think because he is fast that he must be a deep threat. No. Doesn’t mean he is not a good player just not that. And it’s not because how he was used but it was to focus on what he does well. 

I guess you'll just have to watch him play because it is pretty clear that you have an opinion.

[Beck Water]

40 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I’ve seen several different numbers on his usage.  Not sure why - guess we have to pick someone to be believe

 

 

 

 

Well, Samuel has been in the league 7 seasons, so both could be true - maybe he spent his first couple seasons predominantly out wide.

 

I think it's most notable that he played 70% from the slot during his best (to date) season, with Joe Brady as his OC.

[Lost]

30 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'm liking Coleman more every day. He reminds me of Michael Thomas with more versatility. Shows an alpha dog mentality

 

He had the slowest 40 time of every receiver at the combine.   That's concerning.  

[stinky finger]

45 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

I like the signing and value. 

Maybe it's a "grass is always greener" mindset, but how is Gabe Davis worth 1.5x Samuel or Hollywood Brown in the open market?  I understand  that he's younger, but his health has always been an issue.  What am I missing?  He had one historic game several years ago, but otherwise has been very pedestrian.  He never had a 1,000 yard season, never had 50 receptions... despite being in a pass heavy offense with a great QB, and 3 different OCs had a desire/need to get him more involved.

 

 

 

Everyone watched that 200 yard, 4 TD playoff performance and thinks it carried over. 

[MAJBobby]

 

[Matt_In_NH]

13 hours ago, DrMaxPower said:

 

Yeah, the opinions of the fan base don't line up with that of the leagues decision makers.

 

People were hyper critical of Davis. It was excessive. He was a decent #2 wr and vastly outplayed his draft slot. He wasn't a top shelf #2 (aka 1b) but he wasn't paid or drafted as one.

 

I like the signing and am good with Davis moving on. Not sure it's the upgrade many think. That comes from the draft.

 

 

Yeah, not saying the signing is bad it is just clear people are undervaluing Davis at the same time overvaluing Samuel.  I do like the potential play making ability of this guy though, optimistic but I am not expecting out of this world production.   People act like Josh Allen throwing the ball means his numbers will jump significantly, that could happen but at the same time that did not work for Shefield or Harty.   Their numbers went in the crapper with Allen.