Einstein Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Before Gabe was hurt Allen: 4/8 (50%), 67 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT AFTER Gabe left the game Allen: 26/30 (87%), 360 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT Did you know? Over the past two seasons, a little under 40% of Allen's interceptions occur when targeting Gabe Davis? Yet, Davis is not targeting very much... 15.2% of the targets, and 38% of the INT's. And no, I am not saying that Gabe Davis is the sole reason of blame for our offensive failures. Not at all. But for whatever reason, he and Allen are NOT on the same page, and it doesn't seem to be getting better. 23 16 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 When he went down, I’m a bit chagrined to admit that I kinda cheered. Will have one fabulous game and then the next eight Josh might as well be throwing to Mr. Magoo. No separation, no fight for the ball, running the wrong route / making the wrong break. On Josh’s first INT, Gabe was the target and he was 10 yards away from the ball after cutting inside when Josh was expecting outside / toward sideline. They are absolutely not in sync. Someone else can pay him in the off-season and get him TF out of here. 2 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaMilBill Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 The amount of miscommunications between Gabe and Josh has been alarming this year. It straight up cost us the game in Philly and impacted other games big time. Gabe gots to go 2 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Is this like your fourth topic in a hour @Einstein? How hyped up are you? 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapperCam Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 I don't know why it keeps happening, but at the end of the day they aren't on the same page and haven't been for 2 years. It leads to INTs and wasted plays. A meh #2 WR that doesn't kill you with turnovers would be an improvement IMO. Not going to miss Davis next year. 3 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 (edited) 2 minutes ago, VaMilBill said: The amount of miscommunications between Gabe and Josh has been alarming this year. It straight up cost us the game in Philly and impacted other games big time. Gabe gots to go Not just this year, to be honest. Allen threw a higher % of his INT’s to Gabe even last season! Something just isn’t clicking between them. Edited January 8 by Einstein 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Whatever Gabe's role is in the offense it involves too much communication/being on the same page with Josh and they just aren't like that this year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Is this like your fourth topic in a hour @Einstein? How hyped up are you? You’re right. I’m sorry. This will be my last one. I am a bit hyped. Go Bills! 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew21PA Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 11 minutes ago, Einstein said: Before Gabe was hurt Allen: 4/8 (50%), 67 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT AFTER Gabe left the game Allen: 26/30 (87%), 360 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT Did you know? Over the past two seasons, a little under 40% of Allen's interceptions occur when targeting Gabe Davis? Yet, Davis is not targeting very much... 15.2% of the targets, and 38% of the INT's. And no, I am not saying that Gabe Davis is the sole reason of blame for our offensive failures. Not at all. But for whatever reason, he and Allen are NOT on the same page, and it doesn't seem to be getting better. He was to blame for a pick AGAIn tonight any REAL #2 catches a TD on that pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapperCam Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just now, Einstein said: Not just this year, to be honest. Allen threw a higher % of his INT’s to Gabe even last season! Something just isn’t clicking between them. I'm reminded of the Vikings OT interception where Allen expected Davis to cut across the goal line, but instead Davis lazily drifted into the end zone past the DB (which would have been a literally impossible throw to make). Peterson makes the INT and the rest is history. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Since1981 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 15 minutes ago, Einstein said: 40% of Allen's interceptions occur when targeting Gabe Davis? Many INT have Gabe nearby. I think it’s time to leverage others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 12 minutes ago, Einstein said: Before Gabe was hurt Allen: 4/8 (50%), 67 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT AFTER Gabe left the game Allen: 26/30 (87%), 360 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT Did you know? Over the past two seasons, a little under 40% of Allen's interceptions occur when targeting Gabe Davis? Yet, Davis is not targeting very much... 15.2% of the targets, and 38% of the INT's. And no, I am not saying that Gabe Davis is the sole reason of blame for our offensive failures. Not at all. But for whatever reason, he and Allen are NOT on the same page, and it doesn't seem to be getting better. I have been saying it over and over… it’s not just being on different pages. Gabe runs “banana” out routes that are easily read by DBs. He has a very limited skill set yet was seeing the field mainly because Sherfield was likely viewed as crappy and not as effective blocking. He also seems to not be effective option routes or blitz reads outside of his basic red zone slants. Today his awful read in a blitz to try a double move which had no time to happen was directly responsible for pick 1. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Round 1 will hopefully be a WR. Don’t pay Gabe. 1 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 27 minutes ago, VaMilBill said: The amount of miscommunications between Gabe and Josh has been alarming this year. It straight up cost us the game in Philly and impacted other games big time. Gabe gots to go I’d like to hear from one of our X’s and O’s guys - the first INT was obviously a choice route and Allen and Gabe were on different pages. I’m thinking Gabe chose correctly (based on coverage). Anyone? I know @HoofHearted on a miscue in an earlier game, confirmed Gabe read it correctly though Joe Brady was very diplomatic and took the blame on himself, pointing out that Allen was under duress and had very short time to decide (in that instance) Anyway, the point is - not to interfere with your feelings on Gabe, and I think there are reasons to question whether we should pay him or not. But if Allen is the one who is throwing to the wrong spot based on an option route and the coverage, getting rid of Gabe won’t help. Allen has to be better and make better decisions. Edited January 8 by Beck Water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapperCam Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 5 minutes ago, Beck Water said: I’d like to hear from one of our X’s and O’s guys - the first INT was obviously a choice route and Allen and Gabe were on different pages. I’m thinking Gabe chose correctly (based on coverage). Anyone? I know @HoofHearted on a miscue in an earlier game, confirmed Gabe read it correctly though Joe Brady was very diplomatic and took the blame on himself, pointing out that Allen was under duress and had very short time to decide (in that instance) Anyway, the point is - not to interfere with your feelings on Gabe, and I think there are reasons to question whether we should pay him or not. But if Allen is the one who is throwing to the wrong spot based on an option route and the coverage, getting rid of Gabe won’t help. Allen has to be better and make better decisions. But it only happens with Davis. I can't remember an instance of a miscommunication with Diggs on an option route, and Diggs is targeted way more. I'm thinking there is situational awareness carved out where the WR need to know when an all out blitz is happening and keep their head turned around. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 6 minutes ago, Beck Water said: Anyway, the point is - not to interfere with your feelings on Gabe, but if Allen is the one who is throwing to the wrong spot based on an option route and the coverage, getting rid of Gabe won’t help. Allen has to be better and make better decisions. It doesn’t happen often with the other receivers, so the choices are: A) Gabe is wrong more often than the other receivers. B) Josh is wrong with everyone but the other receivers know their QB and what he will see (chemistry). C) Josh saves most the times to be wrong for when he targets Gabe (highly doubtful). Regardless of the reasoning, Gabe is target on nearly 40% of the interceptions but with only 15% of the targets. Which means the other 85% of targets account for far less turnovers per target. So I disagree with your point that losing Gabe wouldn’t help. It sure didn’t hurt tonight. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Gabe is going to get 15-20 million a year from someone in free agency only for that team to realize two years later it was a mistake. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 34 minutes ago, FireChans said: Is this like your fourth topic in a hour @Einstein? How hyped up are you? Are you seriously giving somebody ***** for over posting?! When they've all been viable topics? For real? <fingers twitch toward banhammer......> 3 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, Simon said: Are you seriously giving somebody ***** for over posting?! When they've all been viable topics? For real? <fingers twitch toward banhammer......> That was not meant to be admonishing, I could just feel the hyped up energy after a big win lol. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just move Kincaid into Davis’ role 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Allen wants Davis to succeed. Davis just isnt the guy they want him to be. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, 78thealltimegreat said: Gabe is going to get 15-20 million a year from someone in free agency only for that team to realize two years later it was a mistake. Or they'll use him in a different way that doesn't result in this. 11 minutes ago, Beck Water said: I’d like to hear from one of our X’s and O’s guys - the first INT was obviously a choice route and Allen and Gabe were on different pages. I’m thinking Gabe chose correctly (based on coverage). Anyone? I know @HoofHearted on a miscue in an earlier game, confirmed Gabe read it correctly though Joe Brady was very diplomatic and took the blame on himself, pointing out that Allen was under duress and had very short time to decide (in that instance) Anyway, the point is - not to interfere with your feelings on Gabe, and I think there are reasons to question whether we should pay him or not. But if Allen is the one who is throwing to the wrong spot based on an option route and the coverage, getting rid of Gabe won’t help. Allen has to be better and make better decisions. I still disagree with that he went away from a completely open middle of the field just because there was a defender on the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 39 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Whatever Gabe's role is in the offense it involves too much communication/being on the same page with Josh and they just aren't like that this year. Everyone’s role involves that but Gabe seems to misinterpret his route adjustments or Josh misinterprets what Gabe is supposed to do far often than any other receiver 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said: I think he’s joking and wondering if he’s hyped up, I don’t get the giving ***** impression. I was messing with him as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 16 minutes ago, Beck Water said: I’d like to hear from one of our X’s and O’s guys - the first INT was obviously a choice route and Allen and Gabe were on different pages. I’m thinking Gabe chose correctly (based on coverage). Anyone? I know @HoofHearted on a miscue in an earlier game, confirmed Gabe read it correctly though Joe Brady was very diplomatic and took the blame on himself, pointing out that Allen was under duress and had very short time to decide (in that instance) Anyway, the point is - not to interfere with your feelings on Gabe, and I think there are reasons to question whether we should pay him or not. But if Allen is the one who is throwing to the wrong spot based on an option route and the coverage, getting rid of Gabe won’t help. Allen has to be better and make better decisions. People know more X’s and O’s than me certainly but cover 0 there with the defender boxed out if he curls I think it was all on gabe the way I saw it. The ball looked like it would’ve hit Gabe right in the numbers if he just turned around rather than darting off right 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Yes... sorry not sorry but I said out loud to my buddy that I hoped Gabe was out through the playoffs. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) Josh and the team excel when Gabe's off the field. Both of Josh's ints involved Gabe again doing wierd stuff. The stumble probably cost us a chance at a td. Shakir flat out rarely drops the ball anymore and he's clutch. Kincaid is improving. Even fricking Sherfield finally made an impact. I could easily live with Gabe being inactive. Wish Shorter was even available. As far as I'm concerned Gabe is done as a Bill. Time to move on. Any team dumb enough to pay Gabe 10M+ deserves everything thing "bad" they get. Edited January 8 by LABILLBACKER 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just now, LABILLBACKER said: Josh and the team excel when Gabe's off the field. Both of Josh's ints involved Gabe again doing wierd stuff. The stumble probably cost us a chance at a td. Shakir flat out rarely drops the ball anymore and he's clutch. Kincaid is improving. Even fricking Sherfield finally made an impact. I could easily live with Gabe being inactive. Wish Shorter was even available. As far as I'm concerned Gabe is done as a Bill. Time to move on. We have some better options in the pass game, but we clearly missed his blocking on the edge multiple times when he was out. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapperCam Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 5 minutes ago, Simon said: We have some better options in the pass game, but we clearly missed his blocking on the edge multiple times when he was out. Maybe he should put on 25 pounds and convert to TE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DapperCam said: Maybe he should put on 25 pounds and convert to TE. Can the Plane stop bye Popeyes for some biscuits on the way back? Edited January 8 by Warcodered 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 4 minutes ago, Simon said: We have some better options in the pass game, but we clearly missed his blocking on the edge multiple times when he was out. I agree he's an outstanding blocker but if that's his #1 skill as our so-called #2WR, we're in serious trouble. I just can't watch Gabe run routes anymore. Or adjust to pressure he can see is coming at Josh. I'm rolling with Diggs, Shakir, Kincaid and Sherfield from here on out. I can live with a little less blocking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 2 minutes ago, DapperCam said: Maybe he should put on 25 pounds and convert to TE. It's really not the most awful idea in the world. I can see somebody overpaying him to be a receiver for one contract and then him maybe making that conversion down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjnick Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Einstein said: Before Gabe was hurt Allen: 4/8 (50%), 67 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT AFTER Gabe left the game Allen: 26/30 (87%), 360 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT Did you know? Over the past two seasons, a little under 40% of Allen's interceptions occur when targeting Gabe Davis? Yet, Davis is not targeting very much... 15.2% of the targets, and 38% of the INT's. And no, I am not saying that Gabe Davis is the sole reason of blame for our offensive failures. Not at all. But for whatever reason, he and Allen are NOT on the same page, and it doesn't seem to be getting better. Yeah, I really like Gabe and I hope he has a great career, but just not against Buffalo and not on the Bills team. We need to get multiple WRs either in free agency or the draft. GO BILLS!!! IIIIIIIII have a feeling, Buffalo is going to the Super Bowl!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Claude Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Not to interrupt the Davis hate-fest but a lot of the reason Davis is targeted for a high percentage of Allen's interceptions are because pf the types of the balls thrown to Davis. To me Davis is targeted for a higher percentage of passes that Allen is throwing it 30 yards down the field during scramble drills, similar to the second interception tonight. Of course, those passes have a higher chance of being intercepted. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0017 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 21 minutes ago, Billy Claude said: Not to interrupt the Davis hate-fest but a lot of the reason Davis is targeted for a high percentage of Allen's interceptions are because pf the types of the balls thrown to Davis. To me Davis is targeted for a higher percentage of passes that Allen is throwing it 30 yards down the field during scramble drills, similar to the second interception tonight. Of course, those passes have a higher chance of being intercepted. Higher chance of interception because the dude literally trips on his own feet while trying to spin and make the catch 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Claude Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, 0017 said: Higher chance of interception because the dude literally trips on his own feet while trying to spin and make the catch 😂 The defender also stood there for two seconds waiting for the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Simon said: Are you seriously giving somebody ***** for over posting?! When they've all been viable topics? For real? <fingers twitch toward banhammer......> I was thinking the same thing. Now that's strange we are on the same page. 47 minutes ago, hjnick said: Yeah, I really like Gabe and I hope he has a great career, but just not against Buffalo and not on the Bills team. We need to get multiple WRs either in free agency or the draft. GO BILLS!!! IIIIIIIII have a feeling, Buffalo is going to the Super Bowl!!! I sure hope you are right about the SB. My thought process is this. The Bills are far too inconsistent from game to game or even quarter to quarter. When they are in they can beat anyone. Vice versa. I just fear at some point that inconsistency is going to come back and haunt them in the playoffs. However, their resiliency is off the hook. Go Bills! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Whatever we might guess about that first endzone INT play, it cannot be denied that Miami ran an all-out Cover-0 blitz, and in that circumstance Davis SHOULD make himself immediately available to his QB, rather than blindly running a deep-ish endzone post route. If he just stops and turns (sensing obvious pressure), the ball would have been on him. Allen could have looked left quicker as he retreated, but either way his WR to that side wasn't speeding up/adjusting his availability. 1 3 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 9 hours ago, Beck Water said: I’d like to hear from one of our X’s and O’s guys - the first INT was obviously a choice route and Allen and Gabe were on different pages. I’m thinking Gabe chose correctly (based on coverage). Anyone? I know @HoofHearted on a miscue in an earlier game, confirmed Gabe read it correctly though Joe Brady was very diplomatic and took the blame on himself, pointing out that Allen was under duress and had very short time to decide (in that instance) Anyway, the point is - not to interfere with your feelings on Gabe, and I think there are reasons to question whether we should pay him or not. But if Allen is the one who is throwing to the wrong spot based on an option route and the coverage, getting rid of Gabe won’t help. Allen has to be better and make better decisions. I'll have to wait for the A22 to be certain, but initially I didn't think it was an option route. Looked more like the play was breaking down and Gabe was just running to open space to try and make a play for Josh. Josh just threw it blind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 15 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: Gabe was just running to open space to try and make a play for Josh. If Gabe broke off his route to just run to open space, that’s even worse. I’m almost positive it was an option though. You can actually see Davis reading the leverage before making his turn. And I highly doubt Allen would simply throw it to a random area if he knew where Gabe was going. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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