Why is Diggs coming off the field on Third Downs?

[Allen2Moulds]

I also think that even if Diggs isn't happy with how everything has transpired over the last year+. He's still the ultimate competitor and professional, and in no way shape or form, is he holding anything back. Dude is all about winning, #1.

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

He has literally done nothing to display this.  He was having a lot of fun in practice this week. 

Coaching decisions are taking Diggs off the field in critical downs...simplest explanation imo 

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, Billever76 said:

Coaching decisions are taking Diggs off the field in critical downs...simplest explanation imo 

Or he’s running deeper routes on the downs prior and is winded? 

[Billever76]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

Or he’s running deeper routes on the downs prior and is winded? 

Not buying it...his role has changed allot ..see how many bubble screens or quick passes at the line we keep throwing him? See how allot of his routes are within 5 yards of the LOS? We have some tinkering going on with our offensive identity and it's definitely coming from the coaches

[machine gun kelly]

Hey if he’s injured, but not worthy of reporting, its  really none of our business.  Shakir has played great this year, so has Cook, and Gabe even had one decent game.

[whorlnut]

I know a lot of you don’t want to consider this, but there is a very good chance that we eat money and get rid of Diggs after this season. That will only make our biggest need even bigger. There is no way he won’t be vocal about his usage once the season starts. You thought last off-season was bad?  Wait till we get eliminated this year. 

[whorlnut]

Simon…you can roll your eyes all you want. It’s a possibility and I think it’s pretty likely. You’re telling me he’s gonna be cool with this season?

[Warriorspikes51]

9 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I know a lot of you don’t want to consider this, but there is a very good chance that we eat money and get rid of Diggs after this season. That will only make our biggest need even bigger. There is no way he won’t be vocal about his usage once the season starts. You thought last off-season was bad?  Wait till we get eliminated this year. 

or….Diggs goes wild starting Sunday and helps carry us to a SB Championship and retires as a Bill in 3-4 years

[Simon]

1 minute ago, whorlnut said:

Simon…you can roll your eyes all you want. It’s a possibility and I think it’s pretty likely. You’re telling me he’s gonna be cool with this season?

 

Yeah, the Bills who are desperate for receiver help and have limited resources are going to eat a bunch of cap to cut their only reliable wideout. 

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

or….Diggs goes wild starting Sunday and helps carry us to a SB Championship and retires as a Bill in 3-4 years

This minimal isn’t some sort of strategy. Every game since before thanksgiving has been a must win. You don’t sit your best receiver in big moments waiting for the postseason when you don’t even know you will make it. You are obviously more optimistic than me. I’ll own that. But it could also be true that you are being unrealistic as well. 

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

Yeah, the Bills who are desperate for receiver help and have limited resources are going to eat a bunch of cap to cut their only reliable wideout. 

Then why are his snap counts down if he’s their only reliable receiver?  Enlighten us…

[Warriorspikes51]

2 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Yeah, the Bills who are desperate for receiver help and have limited resources are going to eat a bunch of cap to cut their only reliable wideout. 

I’m really excited about the potential this offense has next season…. if we have the willingness to draft multiple WR’s in the first 3 rounds.  Adding actual dynamic threats along with Diggs, Kincaid growing and Cook.  That’s a fun team!!

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

Having Shefield out there more than Diggs (if Diggs isn't injured) is concerning since Sherfield is hot TRASH! 

 

I mean, why Sherfield over Shakir????  I was screaming at McD through my TV to "GET THAT MOTHER ***** OFF THE FIELD!!!!"

Because OCs are the smartest people on the earth!! 😎

[Simon]

8 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

 

Then why are his snap counts down if he’s their only reliable receiver?  Enlighten us…

 

Pick one:

 

A- Brady is pushing carries. Hard. And Diggs isn't a great blocker

B- He's has been playing hurt since the London fiasco

C- He's not being schemed out, he's taking himself out when his breathing gets compromised

D- His snap counts have always been lower than you think they have

E- All of the above

F- Random conspiracy theory

[PBF81]

If he's injured but not on the injury report, then it'll be problems for us.  

 

The league friends upon that.

 

 

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

If he's injured but not on the injury report, then it'll be problems for us.  

The league friends upon that.

 

 

 

I don't believe it's that cut and dry.

There is wiggle room for guys who are just banged up and still playing.

[NoSaint]

59 minutes ago, BobbyC81 said:

The NFL has been cracking down on teams not reporting injuries. This would be too obvious and the league would have gotten involved.

 

 

Hasn’t it been said that Diggs has been reluctant to block on running plays?  That could be a reason to pull him on RPOs.

 

Counter: Have they really gotten involved in a similar situation? We have 52 other guys practicing hurt today. 
 

if he’s 100% to play, and practicing fully but has a couple cracked ribs or something he can play through but needs a few extra moments on game day they may be compliant even 

[Peter]

I wonder when Diggs' brother will tweet complaining about the Athletic article . . . . 

[JerseyBills]

Honestly have no clue, easy answer is an injury but back to back games he has had clutch catches for 1st downs on our final drive 🤷‍♂️

[PBF81]

21 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I don't believe it's that cut and dry.

There is wiggle room for guys who are just banged up and still playing.

 

Yeah, presumably if he's not in danger of missing a game.  

 

 

[vtnatefootball11]

1 hour ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I also think that even if Diggs isn't happy with how everything has transpired over the last year+. He's still the ultimate competitor and professional, and in no way shape or form, is he holding anything back. Dude is all about winning, #1.

 

Agree with this 100%.  Only makes it more likely that this is scheming him out on third downs, rather than him tapping out in the most critical situations.  No way Diggs competitive as he is is keeping himself out.

Edited January 5 by vtnatefootball11

[Fan in Chicago]

29 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Pick one:

 

A- Brady is pushing carries. Hard. And Diggs isn't a great blocker

B- He's has been playing hurt since the London fiasco

C- He's not being schemed out, he's taking himself out when his breathing gets compromised

D- His snap counts have always been lower than you think they have

E- All of the above

F- Random conspiracy theory

Imo, A is in large part due to B and C

3 minutes ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

 

Agree with this 100%.  Only makes it more likely that this is scheming him out on third downs, rather than him tapping out in the most critical situations.  No way Diggs competitive as he is is keeping himself out.

You should envision a world in which Diggs is competitive from a team standpoint and not for his personal stats. He may be taking himself out as he is winded/hurting and thinks that having someone else in his place for the next play increases the chance of success of that play. 

Consider that for a moment instead of clutching at straws to reinforce your predetermined conclusion 

[vtnatefootball11]

1 hour ago, Billever76 said:

Coaching decisions are taking Diggs off the field in critical downs...simplest explanation imo 

 

Exactly. But he's our best skilled player and commands double teams, so either those are either TERRIBLE decisions by the coaches (like legit malpractice) or something else is going on behind the scenes here. 

5 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Imo, A is in large part due to B and C

You should envision a world in which Diggs is competitive from a team standpoint and not for his personal stats. He may be taking himself out as he is winded/hurting and thinks that having someone else in his place for the next play increases the chance of success of that play. 

Consider that for a moment instead of clutching at straws to reinforce your predetermined conclusion 

 

Curious, what is my predetermined conclusion? I have stated over and over again, I'm not advocating a wild conspiracy theory, I'm asking why he is being taken out by coaches choice on third downs (this has been confirmed by coaches that it is their personnel decision, not Diggs taking himself out).  There is a reason, we just don't know it.  The coaches explanations don't add up and an injury doesn't fully explain it.

Edited January 5 by vtnatefootball11

[Goin Breakdown]

57 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Pick one:

 

A- Brady is pushing carries. Hard. And Diggs isn't a great blocker

B- He's has been playing hurt since the London fiasco

C- He's not being schemed out, he's taking himself out when his breathing gets compromised

D- His snap counts have always been lower than you think they have

E- All of the above

F- Random conspiracy theory

I like that you wrote this. I think

A- true

B- why don't we see him on the list other than "vet rest"

C- I'm not sure we know this. But could be for sure. Puff that inhaler Diggs!!

D- probably True. I know Gabe typically has a higher snap count (back to blocking).
 

i think there may be more to this. Joe on the Locked in Bills podcast said the problems on O are for multiple reasons so....

E- all of the above works for me here

 

I forget if it was the end of last season or early in this season, I brought up about how Diggs always gets a pass on his drops. I got hammered for it by a couple people, but now that it is popular opinion amongst the fans I can feel "at ease" to say that maybe some of Diggs issues are he's dropping a lot of passes. 
All this being said. I'd rather have him on the field than not. He's the WR equivalent of Josh. There's some blemishes but they can both turn the game around at any moment. Go Bills! 

Edited January 6 by Goin Breakdown

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

4 hours ago, WEATHER DOT COM said:

If Diggs was injured he would not have lined up at RB and taken a carry near the goal line last week

 

IMO

Really depends on what the injury is. 

[Mikie2times]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Or he’s running deeper routes on the downs prior and is winded? 

 

The last two seem like an intentional effort to try and push the ball down field. These are two of his highest ADOT's this year.  Outside the last two his average depth of target has actually been VERY low since the Tampa game. He only had 1 game over the first 7 with and ADOT lower than his ADOT in the next 7 games.  As I touched on earlier it's a huge decline in nearly every stat since Brady came on. I'm not saying it is Brady just that this is the only relevant overlap we really see with his performance. Could be pure coincidence. Who knows. 

   

 

[BRH]

You know what, Timmy can ***** the ***** off.  

 

He's been grinding this axe for awhile now trying to dredge up Diggs drama.  He's a better writer than that.  But apparently not a better journalist.

[Not at the table Karlos]

5 hours ago, WEATHER DOT COM said:

If Diggs was injured he would not have lined up at RB and taken a carry near the goal line last week

 

IMO

Diggs looked to be moving a lot better last week and was open deep but they didn’t connect. Josh’s shoulder has been bothering him all year and we run him all the time. He wasn’t listed even though it’s still a problem and causing him to miss throws. Now he’s on for something else tho. 

[Allen2Moulds]

Here's another thing that points to the idea, that he's playing banged up. I read somewhere that he's out on 90% of the run plays. I know he's not an elite blocker or anything, but he's at least been serviceable. Maybe this is a way that the coaching staff, is trying to limit the punishment he is taking. Wondering if that's also effecting what routes he's being asked to run. Honestly just guessing.

Edited January 6 by Allen2Moulds

[Mikie2times]

Perspective on his last 10 games. If you extrapolate his last 10 games into a full 17 games He averages 87 REC, 809 Yards, 5 TD's. 10 games isn't a small sample. 

 

 

 

[Utah John]

5 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

What are the numbers on this that prove it? What are his snaps and target numbers?

If you've been watching the games you've seen this happen, and often it gets pointed out by the announcers.  

[rusty shackleford]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Really depends on what the injury is. 

Maybe it’s a pulled groin and he doesn’t want the ladies to know.

[DrDawkinstein]

20 minutes ago, Utah John said:

If you've been watching the games you've seen this happen, and often it gets pointed out by the announcers.  

 

Ah yes, Broadcast Bias as I like to call it. There was a lot of talk after the Philly game because Jim Nantz happened to notice Diggs was off the field and then he was off for like a single 3rd down, and then Nantz made it into a "thing". After the game tho, it turned out that Diggs was in for 87 of 95 Offensive snaps.

 

Point is, I dont care about announcers. Show me the numbers.

 

He's currently at 81% of Offensive Snaps. In 2022 he finished at 77%. In 2021 he finished at 82%. What is the big deal?

Edited January 6 by DrDawkinstein

[Mikie2times]

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ah yes, Broadcast Bias as I like to call it. There was a lot of talk after the Philly game because Jim Nantz happened to notice Diggs was off the field and then he was off for like a single 3rd down, and then Nantz made it into a "thing". After the game tho, it turned out that Diggs was in for 87 of 95 Offensive snaps.

 

Point is, I dont care about announcers. Show me the numbers.

 

He's currently at 81% of Offensive Snaps. In 2022 he finished at 77%. In 2021 he finished at 82%. What is the big deal?

We have no production at WR, it's his worse 10 game stretch of his career, and his last three games would all rank as season lows in snap count %. Just like 4 weeks ago people said don't worry about Diggs. 4 games later he barely has 100 additional yards. The playoffs are in one week. We need the version of Steph that can get 100 yards, come down with 80% of his targets, and get a TD. Otherwise where is the pass production going to come from?

 

Edited January 6 by Mikie2times

[Tenhigh]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Yes, somebody is missing something. 

Loose Change: Orchard Park Edition.

[Marcus Aurelius]

6 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

his back has been bothering him 

he appeared to be having fun in practice.
 

Josh Diggs and Davis have been spending time together putting in extra work

very encouraging 

With all due respect and I hope you're correct and not questioning your integrity but how do you know this?

[Dr.Sack]

It could be early CTE, the guy does have 800+ career receptions, and is now running backwards after some catches. It’s possible he has a lingering head injury. 

[brianthomas]

4 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Injury could make sense, but if that's the case you would think we would be more strategic with his usage. 3rd down would be the exact down you would expect him to always be playing. I have wondered if he is just less emotionally invested. Sort of like when somebody says to themselves "why the hell do I care so much"? It's usually a result of consistent frustration. A person decides while they can still do the job, they won't get emotionally invested.  Maybe Diggs needs that? Maybe this take is completely wrong. That said something is up. If you look at the heat map below literally everything is in a tailspin and has been.

 

He has stats that have no relationship with each other declining. All of it is bad. The timing coincides with Brady and some have said increased emphasis in the run game. But we need WR production desperately at this point. So to think the ground game is justification in full, I just don't see that.   

 

 

 

i have no idea what the reason is. I often say the simplest reason is likely it. Looking at his stats its pretty clear something around November 13th changed.

I know Ken Dorsey was fired a day later. Coincidence? Probably not. Thanks for sharing this

[KOKBILLS]

8 hours ago, vtnatefootball11 said:

I'm sure all of you that watch the games closely have noticed Diggs coming off the field several times each game in crucial third down and other passing situations.  Has happened a lot in recent weeks. His general snap count is down as well, has played less than 70% of offensive snaps in all recent weeks.  Tim Graham has an article today in the Athletic about it, where he quotes Devin McCourty who has been examining this very issue leading up to the bills/fins game. https://theathletic.com/5180397/2024/01/05/buffalo-bills-dolphins-stefon-diggs-devin-mccourty/   It's behind a paywall but the gist of it is that McCourty is speculating that something is going on behind the scenes with Bills/Diggs, and the coaches/Allen won't say it but they are just trying to get through this season and the Bills may even be doing a little bit "we don't need you to win" type stuff by not playing him in certain crucial moments that any other #1WR would be in for.  Why else would our best skill player not be on the field on crucial third downs in must win games? McCourty states that it has to be something serious going on or else it's coaching malpractice. I agree with him. I have noticed Diggs coming off the field too (not just when he asks for a breather but being designed off on third downs).  Graham/McCourty got a lot of negative reaction from Bills fans in the comments, but I thought they were asking all the right questions.  The coaches have said a few different things about why his production is down but none of them make sense. The double team thing has been sighted a lot, but then why isn't he playing almost every single play if that the case, as that would open up the offense ?  Curious to hear people's thoughts on this board.

 

Who knows? Seems like it's always something with this bunch... Diggs not being on the field on 3rd downs is just dumb, so there has to be something more to it. 

[Utah John]

7 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ah yes, Broadcast Bias as I like to call it. There was a lot of talk after the Philly game because Jim Nantz happened to notice Diggs was off the field and then he was off for like a single 3rd down, and then Nantz made it into a "thing". After the game tho, it turned out that Diggs was in for 87 of 95 Offensive snaps.

 

Point is, I dont care about announcers. Show me the numbers.

 

He's currently at 81% of Offensive Snaps. In 2022 he finished at 77%. In 2021 he finished at 82%. What is the big deal?

Those stats are for the whole year.  Since the Philly game he's been off the field a LOT.  That's what we're talking about.  It's the change from how things were through most of the season that has us wondering what's going on.

[Buffalo Ballin]

It's simple: Diggs has a nagging injury and everyone is doing the best they can to hide the fact.

 

It's not just third downs. It's the entire game. His productivity fell off a cliff.

Edited January 6 by Buffalo Ballin