Broncos benching Wilson

[4merper4mer]

27 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

The point is that this isn’t the season he’s wildly underperforming, so yes…it is a serious argument.  he’s not being benched for his performance this year, as you know
 

 

they tried to do this in October and he obviously said no way—NFLPA and his agent got them to back off.  They did it anyway. 
 

Then likely high Sean  Payton serves up an insane load of BS by saying he’s benching a healthy Wilson for Stidham because the most important thing is winning games. 
 

That franchise is becoming a bigger joke than the two in New Jersey. 

Still mad at Denver for that AFCCG?

[DCofNC]

7 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Well.. I hope the fact that he is still young makes them feel better for blowing all that money on a dud 

Amen to that.

[Mr. WEO]

22 minutes ago, H2o said:

If you were following the rest of what we're talking about, then the comprehension part might be there for you 

you compared 8 years of nothing capped by one good year to all of Wilson’s career

19 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

so we are arguing that Payton is benching him for 2022? 
 

come on Weo, I know you’ve got better in there 

hes benching him because of financial reasons only

19 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

You compared Russ Wilson to Patrick Mahomes but some one else comparing Russell Wilson to Geno Smith is bizarre?

 

I’m trying to figure out if you guys understand why they benched Wilson…

[VaMilBill]

I think early in his career everyone agreed that Russell was on course to be a HOFer. I think at this point it’s safe to say his prospects are cooked outside of some late success, a la Kurt Warner (who IMO should not be a HOFer)

[BBFL]

Seahawks made out!

[Airseven]

36 minutes ago, ganesh said:

They beat us 

Shhh!

[Sierra Foothills]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

I’m trying to figure out if you guys understand why they benched Wilson…

 

No doubt his benching is 90% financial but also, the times I watched Russ he looked like crap and that's the other part of the story.

 

The only time I saw him where he looked good was in the 4th quarter of the New England game. His numbers are misleading at best... he never passed the eyeball test.

 

Russ has some nice skill position guys that he wasn't able to utilize... Javonte Williams, Samaje Perine, and Jaleel McLaughlin are talented backs and Sutton, Jeudy, and Mims are talented receivers. He never established a rapport with any of these guys.

 

Had Russ been able to assimilate into the Payton system and lead the team to the playoffs, I don't think it's a certainty that he'd be getting jettisoned. Yes he's overpaid but that's because his performance hasn't come close to his compensation.

 

Finally Payton inherited Russ... it was clear from his early season statements that he wasn't a big fan and I thought from the start that this relationship wouldn't work out. I actually expected to see Stidham earlier than week 16.

 

JMO.

 

[Mister Defense]

I said on the day of the trade and forever after--worst trade in NFL history, giving up a king's ransom for a player I had thought the Seahawks would cut or waive before the season started.  If I was a Broncos fan and it was a straight up trade for their good tight end, Fant, I would have been angry, but he was just a tiny part of the bounty Seattle (and Wilson) received.

 

Not Peyton's fault the Broncos made such a monumentally poor move.

 

But Wilson should thank him, as he resurrected his career after last year's disaster. Shows you what a good coach can do.

 

Now there may be some teams in need of a good backup who will add Wilson--or even a team desperate for a low level starter?

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Mister Defense

[YoloinOhio]

Ew how did we lose to that ham 

[T master]

10 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

Considering the Broncos are very much alive for the playoffs they are basically making the decision to move from Wilson now.

 

Regardless I actually though he had a solid bounce back type of year and can't blame him for losing to the Patriots.

 

I read the reason was because of a $37 million injury clause in his contract not sure exactly what or how that is written in but given those that are coming out next year & that Wilson wasn't the guy that the new HC wanted along with the amount of money he is getting i can't say this surprises me .

[stuvian]

9 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

That is Wilson post June hit.  Broncos would need to carry $85M until they can split it after June 1st.

If they are truly doing that, they are tanking in 2024.  They would need to release and/or trade a good amount of their big money players.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/russell-wilson-9885/

You're right. This move screams tank. I'm a Wilson fan but what he is being paid doesn't match with the results on the field. I think Payton was brought in to chase him out of town. The Broncos have no talent at the skill positions and play a 1980s offense when the rest of the league is going 4 and 5 wide. I will mark them as my tank team for next year's survivor pool a la the 2023 Cardinals.

[strive_for_five_guy]

3 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Zach Wilson, beats the Bills gets benched

 

Mac Jones, beats the Bills gets benched

 

Russel Wilson, beats the Bills gets benched

 

How is it that the Bills are the highlight of the season for these bums?

Apparently we’re everyone’s Super Bowl.

[H2o]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

you compared 8 years of nothing capped by one good year to all of Wilson’s career.

Let me try kindergarten terms for you. Russ with Pete, good. Russ without Pete, bad. Geno without Pete, bad. For 8 years he was bad. As soon as Geno with Pete, good.

 

And that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. Pete Carroll made Russell Wilson look better than what he actually was. Just like Pete took a JAG and made him one of the top QB's in the NFC last year. 

[Mikie2times]

Payton was going to keep pushing Russ until he either broke or pushed back. I don't think he cares about a "G Golly Willikers" middle of the road QB's feelings. While he is kind of a complete a-hole I don't know if that was the wrong approach. I think he wanted something at the position as far as leadership. He certainly wanted something as far as performance. Given Russ's contract I think his goal was to make sure he got both and he wasn't afraid to push for that outcome. Again, sort of an a-hole, but some people will push and grow from it. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Mikie2times

[GunnerBill]

Wilson will get signed. And he will start somewhere in 2024. But he won't make it a full season there either because he is done. 

 

Personally if I was a GM no way in the world I'd touch him. 

 

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

you compared 8 years of nothing capped by one good year to all of Wilson’s career

hes benching him because of financial reasons only

I’m trying to figure out if you guys understand why they benched Wilson…

 

Nah he benched him because he is bad. 

 

Yes they are protecting themselves against the injury guarantee - sure. But they wouldn't need to do that if he was good. He is garbage. Hence they are moving on. Hence the finance becomes an issue.

[davefan66]

6 hours ago, BBFL said:

Seahawks made out!

Gotta say Carroll isn’t an idiot.  Unless it’s the Super Bowl and he chooses to throw a pass versus feeding Beast Mode!

 

Sick part is Wilson gets paid 37 million next season regardless.  The guaranteed money in play is for 2025 and it makes me wonder why the broncos would agree to that in a contract?  

[GunnerBill]

56 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

Gotta say Carroll isn’t an idiot.  Unless it’s the Super Bowl and he chooses to throw a pass versus feeding Beast Mode!

 

Sick part is Wilson gets paid 37 million next season regardless.  The guaranteed money in play is for 2025 and it makes me wonder why the broncos would agree to that in a contract?  

 

The reality is he has already been paid most of that money. Only $17m, which is his 2024 salary (full guaranteed) is actually to be paid next year. The rest (signing and option bonus) he already has in his bank account and it is just accounted for on the cap next year. 

[Chicken Boo]

10 hours ago, H2o said:

And what did Geno do last year after doing absolutely NOTHING for an entire 8 year career? 69.8% completion rate, almost 4,300 yds, and 30 TD's. Sorry. No, I will not give Russ more credit. 

 

Maybe you didn't watch enough of Russ throughout his career?

 

He wasn't some Geno Smith 1-year wonder.  Come on, man.  You're better than that.  

Edited December 28, 2023 by Chicken Boo

[NoSaint]

10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

you compared 8 years of nothing capped by one good year to all of Wilson’s career

hes benching him because of financial reasons only

I’m trying to figure out if you guys understand why they benched Wilson…

because his expected contributions going forward don’t mesh with his financial compensation and they don’t want to risk the associated commitment long term
 

so it’s not purely financial. 

[BBFL]

3 hours ago, davefan66 said:

Gotta say Carroll isn’t an idiot.  Unless it’s the Super Bowl and he chooses to throw a pass versus feeding Beast Mode!

 

Sick part is Wilson gets paid 37 million next season regardless.  The guaranteed money in play is for 2025 and it makes me wonder why the broncos would agree to that in a contract?  

Think they thought that some semblance of QB play would have gotten them into the postseason with the way their defense had been playing the years prior to the trade.

 

I’ve tried to find it but can’t come up with results quickly, I’ll do a deeper dive here and see what I can’t get, but I read something at the end of last season where Denver lost 9 games by a single score or less and if they had averaged 24 points a game they would have been in play for the #1 seed come the final two weeks of the year. 
 

Granted none of the scoring averages matters cause games always would unfold differently if a play was made where one wasn’t. But I do find it interesting that you trade all these assets for a QB but lose NINE one score games. 
 

Let’s say they win 2/3 of those games, that puts them at 11-6. 100% in the playoffs as the #5 seed. 
 

Instead… they got Wilson and then trade more assets to acquire Payton to make it work.

 

Might be one of the worst trades in NFL history. Especially when you factor that coaching handcuff. 
 

Absolutely bonkers. 
 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by BBFL

[H2o]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Maybe you didn't watch enough of Russ throughout his career?

 

He wasn't some Geno Smith 1-year wonder.  Come on, man.  You're better than that.  

I have watched plenty of Russ over the years. Plenty. I'm saying look at him with Pete, without Pete, and the same with Geno. 

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, H2o said:

Let me try kindergarten terms for you. Russ with Pete, good. Russ without Pete, bad. Geno without Pete, bad. For 8 years he was bad. As soon as Geno with Pete, good.

 

And that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. Pete Carroll made Russell Wilson look better than what he actually was. Just like Pete took a JAG and made him one of the top QB's in the NFC last year. 

 

Geno fell back to earth this year (under Pete) before he went out.  Wilson was paying better in Denver.  You saw that. 

 

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Wilson will get signed. And he will start somewhere in 2024. But he won't make it a full season there either because he is done. 

 

Personally if I was a GM no way in the world I'd touch him. 

 

 

Nah he benched him because he is bad. 

 

Yes they are protecting themselves against the injury guarantee - sure. But they wouldn't need to do that if he was good. He is garbage. Hence they are moving on. Hence the finance becomes an issue.

 

They expressly benched him to avoid a potential injury payout next season if he is injured this season.  He would would be a massive cap hit if they cut him after this season ends. 

 

You don't believe that they are better off with Stidham to make the playoffs.  And since that is true, you can't conclude that he was benched because he was playing poorly. 

 

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

because his expected contributions going forward don’t mesh with his financial compensation and they don’t want to risk the associated commitment long term
 

so it’s not purely financial. 

 

see above.  it absolutely is financial. otherwise there is no was you roll with Stidham when you may make the playoffs. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

Geno fell back to earth this year (under Pete) before he went out.  Wilson was paying better in Denver.  You saw that. 

 

 

They expressly benched him to avoid a potential injury payout next season if he is injured this season.  He would would be a massive cap hit if they cut him after this season ends. 

 

You don't believe that they are better off with Stidham to make the playoffs.  And since that is true, you can't conclude that he was benched because he was playing poorly. 

 

 

see above.  it absolutely is financial. otherwise there is no was you roll with Stidham when you may make the playoffs. 

 

I conclude they have conceded the playoffs. Taken the correct decision that Russell Wilson is cooked and so don't want to be on the hook for a single additonal penny beyond what they already are. 

 

If they had beaten New England this move doesn't get made. And they had the chance too - not for the first time Russ couldn't get it done.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Geno fell back to earth this year (under Pete) before he went out.  Wilson was paying better in Denver.  You saw that. 

 

 

They expressly benched him to avoid a potential injury payout next season if he is injured this season.  He would would be a massive cap hit if they cut him after this season ends. 

 

You don't believe that they are better off with Stidham to make the playoffs.  And since that is true, you can't conclude that he was benched because he was playing poorly. 

 

 

see above.  it absolutely is financial. otherwise there is no was you roll with Stidham when you may make the playoffs. 

I think they are still gonna cut him this off-season, don’t you?

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I conclude they have conceded the playoffs. Taken the correct decision that Russell Wilson is cooked and so don't want to be on the hook for a single additonal penny beyond what they already are. 

 

If they had beaten New England this move doesn't get made. And they had the chance too - not for the first time Russ couldn't get it done.

The real debate is, does Russell Wilson make the HoF?

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, FireChans said:

 

The real debate is, does Russell Wilson make the HoF?

 

Hmmm. If he had two rings he would be a shoe in. I still lean towards yes. But it is an interesting question.

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think they are still gonna cut him this off-season, don’t you?

 

All the well connected Broncos reporters are saying that decision is made. 

[dave mcbride]

28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hmmm. If he had two rings he would be a shoe in. I still lean towards yes. But it is an interesting question.

 

All the well connected Broncos reporters are saying that decision is made. 

Smart comment by Florio here. I'd take the entire cap hit in 2024 if I were them, but to be fair I don't know their cap situation well enough. It might be smarter to spread it out. Also, no one really talks about the actual money saved, but $37 million is a lot!

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/cutting-russell-wilson-will-create-a-cap-mess-for-the-broncos-keeping-him-would-too

 

"The transaction will result in $89 million in cap charges, arising from money already paid and his 2024 fully-guaranteed compensation of $39 million. The Broncos can either take the entire hit in 2024, or they can designate Wilson as a post-June 1 release and limit the cap charge to $35.4 million in 2024 and $53.6 million in 2025.

 

The Broncos eventually would get a credit for Wilson’s earnings elsewhere in 2024. If he takes the one-year veteran minimum of $1.21 million from his next team, that’s all the Broncos will get by way of credit.

 

It’s still better than the cap consequences of keeping him. His cap number for 2024 would be $35.4 million under his current deal, along with $55.4 million in 2025. That’s $90.8 million. Also, cutting him saves $37 million in cash.

 

Will this hurt Denver’s ability to field the most competitive team possible in 2024? Sure. But it won’t be impossible. The Buccaneers are closing in on a division championship despite carrying more than $75 million in dead money, with $35 million of it coming from Tom Brady. Also, with the cap going up and up and up, the relative impact of seemingly staggering cap charges continues to drop as the cap continues to rise."

Edited December 28, 2023 by dave mcbride

[dave mcbride]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hmmm. If he had two rings he would be a shoe in. I still lean towards yes. But it is an interesting question.

 

There is NO conceivable way that Wilson doesn't make the HOF. Warren Moon is the only Black QB in the HOF, and Wilson is by far and away the most accomplished candidate (over McNabb, Vick, etc.). You and I both know that voters will be conscious of this issue. Mahomes and Jackson will get in, but they have a lot longer to play. Wilson's 167 career AV (from PFR) dwarfs everyone else's (McNabb is second at 138). People forget that he's had a bunch of spectacular statistical seasons.    

Edited December 28, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Mr. WEO]

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I conclude they have conceded the playoffs. Taken the correct decision that Russell Wilson is cooked and so don't want to be on the hook for a single additonal penny beyond what they already are. 

 

If they had beaten New England this move doesn't get made. And they had the chance too - not for the first time Russ couldn't get it done.

 

Why would they concede the playoffs?  The HC claims they are "desperately trying to win"  and that Stidham decision is based on "a spark".

 

My favorite part is this: "one of the things we saw when we signed Stidham in the offseason, not only from preseason games but regular-season games, but he's a guy I'm excited to see play."  Stidham took 4 snaps and attempted zero passes this year. 

 

Payton is a bum.   Washed up. Same will be true next year when they sign a guy like Minshew or The Passtronaut, while they try to groom a rookie QB.  That team is going nowhere with him.

 

24 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think they are still gonna cut him this off-season, don’t you?

The real debate is, does Russell Wilson make the HoF?

 

Yes they will cut him.  If they do it in March as has been reported, he would be a 50 million cap hit in 2024. If they let him go in June, they pay him 35.4 million. 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Why would they concede the playoffs?  The HC claims they are "desperately trying to win"  and that Stidham decision is based on "a spark".

 

My favorite part is this: "one of the things we saw when we signed Stidham in the offseason, not only from preseason games but regular-season games, but he's a guy I'm excited to see play."  Stidham took 4 snaps and attempted zero passes this year. 

 

Payton is a bum.   Washed up. Same will be true next year when they sign a guy like Minshew or The Passtronaut, while they try to groom a rookie QB.  That team is going nowhere with him.

 

 

Yes they will cut him.  If they do it in March as has been reported, he would be a 50 million cap hit in 2024. If they let him go in June, they pay him 35.4 million. 

 

 

I feel like Kirk Cousins would be a fit in a Payton offense, but he'll likely be too expensive given the cap situation.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Why would they concede the playoffs?  The HC claims they are "desperately trying to win"  and that Stidham decision is based on "a spark".

 

My favorite part is this: "one of the things we saw when we signed Stidham in the offseason, not only from preseason games but regular-season games, but he's a guy I'm excited to see play."  Stidham took 4 snaps and attempted zero passes this year. 

 

Payton is a bum.   Washed up. Same will be true next year when they sign a guy like Minshew or The Passtronaut, while they try to groom a rookie QB.  That team is going nowhere with him.

 

 

Yes they will cut him.  If they do it in March as has been reported, he would be a 50 million cap hit in 2024. If they let him go in June, they pay him 35.4 million. 

 

 

 

Russ is done. Finished. Toast. His stats this year are a mirage. I have watched a lot of the Broncos. I think I have seen him play well once. The Broncos have just acknowledged the reality.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Russ is done. Finished. Toast. His stats this year are a mirage. I have watched a lot of the Broncos. I think I have seen him play well once. The Broncos have just acknowledged the reality.

Well, he'd be an upgrade in Atlanta, which if it had Wilson would probably have won that division. The Steelers would be a 10-win team if they had him. He'll find a home. He's not the worst starting QB in the league even if he's clearly not elite.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Russ is done. Finished. Toast. His stats this year are a mirage. I have watched a lot of the Broncos. I think I have seen him play well once. The Broncos have just acknowledged the reality.

 

Was that the game against the Bills?

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Well, he'd be an upgrade in Atlanta, which if it had Wilson would probably have won that division. The Steelers would be a 10-win team if they had him. He'll find a home. He's not the worst starting QB in the league even if he's clearly not elite.

 

I agree he will find a home. He will start a season somewhere next year. Whether he finishes it I am less convinced. Depends on the team and where they are at. 

4 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

Was that the game against the Bills?

 

He played okay against the Bills. Really well in the win against Minnesota. Other than that... meh. 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree he will find a home. He will start a season somewhere next year. Whether he finishes it I am less convinced. Depends on the team and where they are at. 

Once you look around the league, you can see that he's a clear upgrade for some teams. Atlanta in particular sticks out like a sore thumb. The only reason they are under .500 is godawful QBing. They have no talent at the position.

[Punching Bag]

17 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Well, he'd be an upgrade in Atlanta, which if it had Wilson would probably have won that division. The Steelers would be a 10-win team if they had him. He'll find a home. He's not the worst starting QB in the league even if he's clearly not elite.

 

I do not think he is willing to be paid less than elite money so will be unsigned.  He does not love football so much like other players.

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

I have watched plenty of Russ over the years. Plenty. I'm saying look at him with Pete, without Pete, and the same with Geno. 

 

Geno hasn't been great this year and Russ is 35 now.  

 

*Geno isn't leading any team to a Super Bowl, let alone 2 and winning 1.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Chicken Boo

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

I do not think he is willing to be paid less than elite money so will be unsigned.  He does not love football so much like other players.

He likes fame, and will lose that if he stops playing. And someone will pay him $15 million-plus a year (at least). That's far more than he'll be able to make in any other line of work.

[ColoradoBills]

11 hours ago, stuvian said:

You're right. This move screams tank. I'm a Wilson fan but what he is being paid doesn't match with the results on the field. I think Payton was brought in to chase him out of town. The Broncos have no talent at the skill positions and play a 1980s offense when the rest of the league is going 4 and 5 wide. I will mark them as my tank team for next year's survivor pool a la the 2023 Cardinals.

 

I'm not totally sure it's an all-out tank.  It may depend on what Peyton's evaluation of players on the offensive side of the ball.

It's the other reason to bench Wilson.  He will get a look at how Stidham runs the offense and how they look with him.

 

The second part has to be who is the future at QB for them.  He could try to sign a guy like Cousins with a small cap hit in 2024 but Cousins

is the only "decent" QB on the market as of now.  Cousins could have a choice as to where he goes.  Stidham is signed for 2024 and maybe he 

just gets a Jake Browning or someone to compete and he waits on QB.  They will have a chance at some of the 2nd tier rookies.

 

Personally, if I was him, I would keep the D intact and completely redo the O this season.  Question on the O is, reach for the QB now or

rebuild a cheaper O with the plan to get the QB later.  I don't think with the cap situation he will have that he can do both.

 

We all will know which path he is going in March especially if a couple of the big money guys on the O get traded.  

[DCOrange]

Denver really screwed up with the Wilson and Payton moves. Convinced themselves that this roster was close to contending when it simply isn’t a good roster and then went all in on two guys that aren’t particularly good at their jobs anymore.

 

It’s not that Wilson is the worst QB in the league or anything but they’re getting bottom 5-10 starter play from a guy that’s getting top 5 QB money. You just can’t build a winner that way. Might as well strip this team down to the studs and start completely over IMO. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I feel like Kirk Cousins would be a fit in a Payton offense, but he'll likely be too expensive given the cap situation.

 

Payton's coaching genius existed only in the context of Drew Brees--and even then after wining a single SB with one the best QBs of all time, he had a stretch of 4 7-9 seasons in 5 years.  He isn't a competent HC--he neglects the Defensive side of the ball.  I see no QB scenario next year where they get to the playoffs. 

 

His pumping up Stidham is shameless. This is the QB that owners tell the HC to play when they want to get rid of their expensive starter (see: D. Carr).