Has Tyrel Dodson really showed that much improvement? Currently PFF's only 90+ backer.

[HappyDays]

51 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

If linval Joseph wasn't waiting on the couch for a contender to call him we'd still have a lot of problems

 

Yeah but that's the point. A free agent off the couch was able to give us adequate play at the position... If for example we lost Diggs we would be sunk as a team.

[HappyDays]

50 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Usually anytime this defense needs a stop it has not gotten one this season 

 

Josh has left the field multiple times with the lead only for it to be erased

 

IMO that is coaching more than talent.

 

End of the Jaguars game, McDermott takes Elam off the field and puts in Ingram off the bench. Etienne proceeds to run right over en route to a backbreaking game ending TD. Coaching issue.

 

End of the Pats game, we have already blitzed like crazy throughout the game and do a dumb blitz on the first play of their last drive which goes for a big gain. Coaching issue.

 

End of the Bengals game, we put Von Miller on the field over Rousseau in an obvious 3rd down rushing situation. The Bengals predictably run right by him, game over. Coaching issue.

 

End of the Broncos game, first play we fail to account for the leaking RB despite that same outlet pass giving us trouble all game long. Coaching issue. We all out blitz on 3rd down immediately after all out blitzing on 2nd down which gives Russell Wilson an easy answer. Coaching issue. And then... well you know what happened next. Coaching issue.

 

Milano and Jones being out is obviously not ideal but that hasn't been the main problem.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

IMO that is coaching more than talent.

 

End of the Jaguars game, McDermott takes Elam off the field and puts in Ingram off the bench. Etienne proceeds to run right over en route to a backbreaking game ending TD. Coaching issue.

 

End of the Pats game, we have already blitzed like crazy throughout the game and do a dumb blitz on the first play of their last drive which goes for a big gain. Coaching issue.

 

End of the Bengals game, we put Von Miller on the field over Rousseau in an obvious 3rd down rushing situation. The Bengals predictably run right by him, game over. Coaching issue.

 

End of the Broncos game, first play we fail to account for the leaking RB despite that same outlet pass giving us trouble all game long. Coaching issue. We all out blitz on 3rd down immediately after all out blitzing on 2nd down which gives Russell Wilson an easy answer. Coaching issue. And then... well you know what happened next. Coaching issue.

 

Milano and Jones being out is obviously not ideal but that hasn't been the main problem.

 

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah but that's the point. A free agent off the couch was able to give us adequate play at the position... If for example we lost Diggs we would be sunk as a team.

Certainly if we lost diggs the season is over

 

There's usually not a player of Joseph's caliber sitting on the couch in November so we lucked out

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, wppete said:

He’s been playing great. Big surprise. Also Dorrian Williams looks like a stud. 

Yeah, when Milano returns I think we're set at LB.  No need for wasted draft picks there. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

3 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

He was the defensive MVP against the Jets.  TFLs, sack, 7 tackles, PD, etc.  He was all over the field. 

Did you forget Rasul Douglas played?🤣

[Patrick Duffy]

8 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yeah, when Milano returns I think we're set at LB.  No need for wasted draft picks there. 

I don't know if I'd go as far to say "we're set at LB" basing off Dodson having a good game. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

He's played well against the run. He's still been fooled a lot when he's out there. To the coaches credit he seems to be on the field a LOT more in running situations rather than being full time.

Some guys need more reps to get their feel for the game and gain confidence.  Dodson has definitely improved his play.  He Bernard and Williams are a nice group of LB’s.  Bernard and Williams have a higher ceiling than Edmonds.  And Dodson is getting there also.  

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I have been killing this dude non stop. I have wanted to see almost anyone but him. Seen more than enough and was just completely over it……

 

He played really good against the Jets. It’s not fair of me to kill him all the time and then be quiet when it’s the opposite. He played very well against the Jet and proved he might be worth the opportunity. Glad to be wrong about him if it turns out to be the case.

[Pete]

Dodson made some nice plays.  He was playing great with Bernard 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Pete

[Scott7975]

He was a stud against the Jets and played well against Denver too.  I dunno, I don't really watch all that deeply too much but the dude has been making plays.

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

They're not struggling like a bottom five team...

 

But when the game is on the line do you feel confident in the defense right now?

 

Nobody thought we were going to stop the broncos in the game day thread on the last drive ... Basically everyone said our defense was going to get moved down and scored on..  there was little faith we were going to get a stop

 

We might have some impressive numbers but we struggle to get timely stops

 

I agree, the d should be able to make a game winning drive stop.  Outside of that they have played very well.  I just can't fault a D that keeps the team in the game for 3/4 of football the offense did nothing.  Especially with as many turnovers and 3 and outs this offense has had.

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Did you forget Rasul Douglas played?🤣

 

Douglas had the gaudy stats, but Dodson set the tone early by stuffing the Jest running game.  He was steady throughout the game, and led the defense all the way.

[Kornfed]

4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

There have been comments that on Madden and PFF (not much difference in my opinion) you can pay to get higher ratings.

 

Never like Puke Fantasy Football but told to stop posting Bill the Cat.

For what it's worth, Bill the Cat was one of my ole faves. Even had a T shirt with his pic. .... So I feel your pain

[Zag20]

4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

PFF reflects its owner Cris Collingsworth, a complete sham. 

HERE IS A GUY who came into the league dealing with the adversity of a maybe questionable domestic violence arrest and all he has done is worked hard, showed patience, sign league minimum extensions and make splash plays against a historically bad Jets offense. 

[Einstein]

5 hours ago, wppete said:

Also Dorrian Williams looks like a stud. 

 

He does!?

[Green Lightning]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

If linval Joseph wasn't waiting on the couch for a contender to call him we'd still have a lot of problems

100%

[MJS]

They use him as a traditional linebacker and have Poyer come down and play the Milano role in coverage. McDermott has made some very significant adjustments to deal with the loss of personnel.

[Punching Bag]

16 minutes ago, Zag20 said:

HERE IS A GUY who came into the league dealing with the adversity of a maybe questionable domestic violence arrest and all he has done is worked hard, showed patience, sign league minimum extensions and make splash plays against a historically bad Jets offense. 

 

I did not remember Cris Collingsworth facing a historically bad Jets offense.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

IMO that is coaching more than talent.

 

End of the Jaguars game, McDermott takes Elam off the field and puts in Ingram off the bench. Etienne proceeds to run right over en route to a backbreaking game ending TD. Coaching issue.

 

End of the Pats game, we have already blitzed like crazy throughout the game and do a dumb blitz on the first play of their last drive which goes for a big gain. Coaching issue.

 

End of the Bengals game, we put Von Miller on the field over Rousseau in an obvious 3rd down rushing situation. The Bengals predictably run right by him, game over. Coaching issue.

 

End of the Broncos game, first play we fail to account for the leaking RB despite that same outlet pass giving us trouble all game long. Coaching issue. We all out blitz on 3rd down immediately after all out blitzing on 2nd down which gives Russell Wilson an easy answer. Coaching issue. And then... well you know what happened next. Coaching issue.

 

Milano and Jones being out is obviously not ideal but that hasn't been the main problem.

Needing Elam out there to make a tackle is not a coaching issue.

 

”play someone else to make a play because the player out there didn’t” is not a coaching issue. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by FireChans

[HappyDays]

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Needing Elam out there to make a tackle is not a coaching issue.

 

”play someone else to make a play because the player out there didn’t” is not a coaching issue. 

 

Sure it is. A practice squad CB off the bench is given a snap in crunch time, presumably to punish Elam for some poor reps, and then that practice squad CB is promptly bowled over for a long TD. That's a coaching decision.

 

To be fair though that game was really more on Dorsey failing to ever get the offense in any kind of rhythm. Again though, coaching. Even with some our talent deficiencies on both sides of the ball, better coaching could have led to a better season.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I’d bump him down to 89 purely due to the stupid number he currently wears. 

[FireChans]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Sure it is. A practice squad CB off the bench is given a snap in crunch time, presumably to punish Elam for some poor reps, and then that practice squad CB is promptly bowled over for a long TD. That's a coaching decision.

 

To be fair though that game was really more on Dorsey failing to ever get the offense in any kind of rhythm. Again though, coaching. Even with some our talent deficiencies on both sides of the ball, better coaching could have led to a better season.

Elam got pulled because he was AWFUL. Keeping him out there, because the guy behind him may not play as awful, and it not working out is not a bad coaching decision. 

[Maynard]

Let’s see how he and the entire ream play against Philly. 

[Coach Tuesday]

He looks like he lost weight and got quicker.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I’d bump him down to 89 purely due to the stupid number he currently wears. 

It is weird. I’m cool with not wanting to use a number in the 50s those are the worst. 25 just looks so bizarre. I’d rather see a single digit or a number in the 90s on a LB than 25. So strange. I like the ones in the 40s but if you wanna be different, get out of the 20s.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Certainly if we lost diggs the season is over

 

There's usually not a player of Joseph's caliber sitting on the couch in November so we lucked out

 

 

You're just wrong about that.   Joseph and Suh were both out there each of the past two years..........and in seasons before that Snacks Harrison was on the cheap trade or free agent market every year from 2018-2020.    

 

This is business as usual for the big body veteran DT market.    

 

You've definitely missed the point about what @HappyDays was saying.   Non-premium positions are relatively easy to fill short term and short notice with capable players.

 

When you are trying to find players at premium positions,  it's usually a much more complicated fix.

 

I'll also add that Joseph only played 20 snaps last game and a lot of those were well after the game was out of reach.  

Edited November 22, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[Eastport bills]

I wrote Dodson off after seeing him flail around when put in the Edmunds role early in the season. He was a vastly different player against the Jets. He was flying around running down backs and receivers, living in the Jets backfield. All of a sudden, we have a couple of active, physical LBs. Give me a couple more performances like Sunday and this defense will be formidable. Hopefully Johnson can play against the Eagles.

[wppete]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

He does!?

yes

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, Beast said:

If not for Rasul Douglas.

That absolutely should go to Douglas

1 hour ago, Maynard said:

Let’s see how he and the entire ream play against Philly. 

Kind of a unfair barometer
 

The Eagles are currently the best team in the league

[Buffalo716]

34 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You're just wrong about that.   Joseph and Suh were both out there each of the past two years..........and in seasons before that Snacks Harrison was on the cheap trade or free agent market every year from 2018-2020.    

 

This is business as usual for the big body veteran DT market.    

 

You've definitely missed the point about what @HappyDays was saying.   Non-premium positions are relatively easy to fill short term and short notice with capable players.

 

When you are trying to find players at premium positions,  it's usually a much more complicated fix.

 

I'll also add that Joseph only played 20 snaps last game and a lot of those were well after the game was out of reach.  

3 players is not a big sample size man... There's literally three veteran wide receivers available too... And the players coming off the couch could also play bad

 

And we're still not far from running Oliver at the one technique a lot which will have a massive effect around it

 

I was commenting to him because he said losing a weak side line backer and a one technique isn't super important... Sure it's not as important as losing Josh or Dawkins

 

But a one technique has been tremendously important in this defense... And Matt milano's position is irrelevant because he's on the field for 100% of the snaps

 

His position in this defense is vital

 

There's 20 teams that could use an upgrade at the one technique position and there's two available... 

 

And Matt Milano was our best defensive player

 

I understand if you have a WR1 problem ,or LT problem it's tougher to fix that then 1T problem in season 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, wppete said:

yes

 

What have you seen that leads you to that conclusion?

 

I hope you’re right but he is only getting about 20~% of the snaps lately and his grading is quite poor.

 

Jets game was his best showing though.

[HoofHearted]

7 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

I love that we’re running more 4-3.

 

Game has shifted and this is a good call.

We only went big because they were going big. I don't expect that to be a staple going forward.

Edited November 22, 2023 by HoofHearted

[Shaw66]

Dodson's looked excellent to me on occasion, and the occasions keep increasing.   He still is out of position some of the time, but he's learning.  That was a huge hole, and he's filling nicely. 

I think back to the end of the summer, when the consensus here was that the Bills had no one at middle linebacker.  People here talked about Bernard and Dodson like two guys who had no business in the NFL.  My conclusion is that McDermott and Beane knew something about those guys that most of us didn't.  That's why they were on the roster, and that's why Beane didn't go after anyone else.  

 

Both guys still need more time on the field, and as someone said, Williams isn't embarrassing himself out there, either.  All three are growing into solid contributors.  

 

Gotta give Beane and McDermott credit.  

 

 

[Punching Bag]

47 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

We only went big because they were going big. I don't expect that to be a staple going forward.

 

Bills need to keep players on active roster so when opponent decides to go big Bills can defend.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

3 players is not a big sample size man... There's literally three veteran wide receivers available too... And the players coming off the couch could also play bad

 

And we're still not far from running Oliver at the one technique a lot which will have a massive effect around it

 

I was commenting to him because he said losing a weak side line backer and a one technique isn't super important... Sure it's not as important as losing Josh or Dawkins

 

But a one technique has been tremendously important in this defense... And Matt milano's position is irrelevant because he's on the field for 100% of the snaps

 

His position in this defense is vital

 

There's 20 teams that could use an upgrade at the one technique position and there's two available... 

 

And Matt Milano was our best defensive player

 

I understand if you have a WR1 problem ,or LT problem it's tougher to fix that then 1T problem in season 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 veteran former star players is plenty when there are only 4-8 teams max that said players would join..........with most such teams not looking for a big non-pass rusher.

 

DT and MLB are also positions where mid-career players often turn into very good players out of nowhere............so it wouldn't be shocking if a Dodson emerged as a good starting LB in the NFL for the next few years.

 

Some current examples are former undrafteds by the Titans......LB Robert Spillane(now Raiders) and DT Teair Tart..........undrafted then cut and seen as fringe roster guys who emerged and will probably both be in the Pro Bowl this year when the few better ones ahead of them opt out.

 

A one tech being "tremendously important" is a much bigger issue when there aren't serviceable options on the street..........like when it's a position "you can never have too many of" like any premium position, for example.

 

Your logic is poor on this topic and you protest far too much about that take.

 

 

[Zag20]

3 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

I did not remember Cris Collingsworth facing a historically bad Jets offense.

I don’t remember Chris Collingsworth at all

[Buffalo716]

27 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

2 veteran former star players is plenty when there are only 4-8 teams max that said players would join..........with most such teams not looking for a big non-pass rusher.

 

DT and MLB are also positions where mid-career players often turn into very good players out of nowhere............so it wouldn't be shocking if a Dodson emerged as a good starting LB in the NFL for the next few years.

 

Some current examples are former undrafteds by the Titans......LB Robert Spillane(now Raiders) and DT Teair Tart..........undrafted then cut and seen as fringe roster guys who emerged and will probably both be in the Pro Bowl this year when the few better ones ahead of them opt out.

 

A one tech being "tremendously important" is a much bigger issue when there aren't serviceable options on the street..........like when it's a position "you can never have too many of" like any premium position, for example.

 

Your logic is poor on this topic and you protest far too much about that take.

 

 

This board is literally the most fickle thing ever (not you the board)

 

One week Dodson sucks the next week he might be pretty good ... Yet I was ridiculed when I said he actually had some talent in the preseason... That doesn't make him matt Milano

 

We've been better at replacing cornerbacks than interior lineman too 

 

Protest too much? Because I said losing an All pro is a big deal... And that we've been thin at 1T for years which hurts

 

This defense has always struggled when Ed Oliver is forced to play a majority of one technique due to injuries... And Oliver is a massive piece of our defense and him at three technique is a key

 

Any team if they lose their quarterback left tackle or All pro wide receiver or pass rusher will struggle lol the Bills lost Tre white in his prime and even kept churning...

 

This defense won't turn with Oliver at one technique as a starter for long... He will breakdown .. so it's huge to keep him at 3T

 

It's not asinine to say that the Bills should have more than one pure 1T on the roster which would keep the line integrity 

 

I get it you think corner and wide receiver and pass rusher and left tackle are premium positions....

 

And they are

 

But we took Oliver in the top 10 to be a game wrecking 3T... And we're always one injury away from him playing 1T which isn't good for us 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Buffalo716

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

This board is literally the most fickle thing ever (not you the board)

 

One week Dodson sucks the next week he might be pretty good ... Yet I was ridiculed when I said he actually had some talent in the preseason... That doesn't make him matt Milano

 

We've been better at replacing cornerbacks than interior lineman too 

 

Protest too much? Because I said losing an All pro is a big deal... And that we've been thin at 1T for years lol

 

This defense has always struggled when Ed Oliver is forced to play a majority of one technique due to injuries... And Oliver is a massive piece of our defense and him anlt three technique is the key

 

 

 

 

 

My take all along is that this defense is just replete with opportunity for LB's to make plays.    

 

Journeyman quality Preston Brown lead the NFL in tackles playing MLB for McD for chrissakes.

 

That's why I wasn't the least bit shook about losing Edmunds.    I felt confident that one of the cast of unproven, modest or low investments and/or some journeyman vet like Kirksey would emerge.

 

And while Milano may play his position better(All Pro last year) than any other defender on the Bills..........he is not the MVP of the defense and therefore not their "best player" on defense.    That being thrown out there all the time is just disingenuous.

 

Because defensively the game is won at the LOS.    Their struggles since London are much more a function of the injuries to playmaking DL like Oliver,  Rousseau and Floyd and the struggles of Von Miller.    Those are the "best players" because they do the next most impactful thing to playing QB........rushing the QB.    

 

When those guys aren't getting pressure and making plays it's rat-a-tat-tat thru that back 7 whether Milano is healthy or not.   I mean how many times do we have to see Mahomes and Burrow do it until we can accept pass rush and penetration are the Lord and Savior of the D.     Thankfully, Oliver and Floyd look like they are back to early season form and it showed against the Jets.

 

As for Oliver specifically.........the defense has always struggled IN THE PAST when Oliver has to play 1 tech...........but this year he is handling double teams like a champ when he has to.    What did they say Sunday?   He has a better pressure rate against double teams than any other DT in the league has against singles this season.   That's a crazy improvement but that's what we expected when he was drafted.   He played NT at Houston.   It was expected that he would play bigger than his size indicated.    

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

My take all along is that this defense is just replete with opportunity for LB's to make plays.    

 

Journeyman quality Preston Brown lead the NFL in tackles playing MLB for McD for chrissakes.

 

That's why I wasn't the least bit shook about losing Edmunds.    I felt confident that one of the cast of unproven, modest or low investments and/or some journeyman vet like Kirksey would emerge.

 

And while Milano may play his position better(All Pro last year) than any other defender on the Bills..........he is not the MVP of the defense and therefore not their "best player" on defense.    That being thrown out there all the time is just disingenuous.

 

Because defensively the game is won at the LOS.    Their struggles since London are much more a function of the injuries to playmaking DL like Oliver,  Rousseau and Floyd and the struggles of Von Miller.    Those are the "best players" because they do the next most impactful thing to playing QB........rushing the QB.    

 

When those guys aren't getting pressure and making plays it's rat-a-tat-tat thru that back 7 whether Milano is healthy or not.   I mean how many times do we have to see Mahomes and Burrow do it until we can accept pass rush and penetration are the Lord and Savior of the D.     Thankfully, Oliver and Floyd look like they are back to early season form and it showed against the Jets.

 

As for Oliver specifically.........the defense has always struggled IN THE PAST when Oliver has to play 1 tech...........but this year he is handling double teams like a champ when he has to.    What did they say Sunday?   He has a better pressure rate against double teams than any other DT in the league has against singles this season.   That's a crazy improvement but that's what we expected when he was drafted.   He played NT at Houston.   It was expected that he would play bigger than his size indicated.    

Ed is a machine.... He's always been great at taking double teams

 

In fact I've seen him take on a double , shed it then anchor and shed the FB and make the tackle... Impressive

 

And yes he was a nose tackle at Houston

 

And he has impressive play strength... But sticking him on the outside shade of the center is a tougher ask for him 40 snaps a night 

 

He certainly plays bigger than his size, and is a tremendous run stuffer... But it takes a hit on his body when 1T snaps pile 

 

Because chasing down runs back side from the three technique he's elite at... And he's finally figuring out pass rushing

 

Everybody thought we were going to get a pass rushing Superstar... But he actually was a run stuffing machine who needed to improve his pass rushing technique

 

I certainly thought we could overcome the Loss to Edmunds also

 

The NFL game is absolutely won in the trenches... And pass rush is obviously a key

 

Which makes our front four as a whole the most important unit... Because obviously a good pass rush can make a weak secondary look pretty good

 

Which is why the bills are still formidable right now.. because we have dogs up front

 

We also have the most invested in the defensive line in the NFL

 

Floyd should be extended and Oliver is playing at a very high level... Epenesa with Rousseau... And yeah if von rounds into shape they have the ability to make life tough for QBs... Gotta get a 10 point lead and let them get after it

 

You know I've always agreed you could never have enough guys who can get after it

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

With Bernard Milano(healthy) and Williams, we are one of the teams in the NFL that shouldn’t have to take LBs off the field to cover. Those guys can all really run. If there’s 1 team in the league that is suited to play the LEAST nickel it’s us. Yet we were running it like every single play. That’s why teams were running all over us. Leave 3 linebackers out there and stop the run. These guys are fast enough to cover and the pros outweigh the cons here. 4-3 almost always please.

[Chandler#81]

TD25 had himself a Game!

https://x.com/erikjturner/status/1727131587954024865?s=61