My theory: McDermott never liked Daboll's high flying offense, but had to go along with it

[TheFunPolice]

I'm no fan of Dorsey, but I think what we're seeing is the type of offensive approach that McDermott has ALWAYS wanted. Not that he doesn't want points, but he wants "balance." 

 

McD is a smart guy, a great defensive mind, but also an Alpha. This is HIS team. He has an idea of how to win. 

 

The difference with Daboll was that he did it his way, throwing 10-15 times in a row to start games and having guys flying all over the place. Allen was a bulldozer. The offense was cranking.

 

I think McDermott was uncomfortable with that approach and probably tried to get Daboll to change and that's the cause of the obvious tension between the 2 that got worse and worse until the end. At the end of the day, McDermott couldn't say too much because it was working and the team was winning and the players would have probably sided with Daboll if things blew up about it, so McDermott had to just go along with it.

 

Why else would McD have such hard feelings about Daboll? And he does, we don't need to argue the blatantly obvious. 

 

Obviously McD wants wins. Ultimately the HC gets the most credit, along with the QB. So it's a tense standoff. 

 

If it came down to a "him or me" argument McD might not have been the owner's (or superstar QBs) choice when the offense is scoring at will and Allen is becoming a superstar and the team is winning "because of offense" (which also must have driven him crazy on some level). 

 

It was also the defense that let the team down in 13 seconds. 

 

As a HC, I can see how he might see it as Daboll trying to one up him. I could see him feeling disrespected, regardless of the outcome of it. He's the HC and it's supposed to be his program, but the OC was a big personality who was getting all sorts of credit for doing the opposite of what McD wanted. 

 

What was McD going to do? Fire him? There would have been a mutiny. McD would have lost the locker room. 

 

But now, Dorsey is just a guy and McDermott can put his stamp on the offense. Now offensive guys are frustrated, unhappy, and want their offense back, regardless of who is calling the plays. 

 

That's the reason for the Diggs outbursts, Allen's malaise, and Florio's obnoxious "Jenga tower" articles after every Bills loss. 

 

My theory anyway as to what is going on with the offense. I'm not sure how much it matters who the OC is. 

 

 

 

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

I got that feeling when he first started.  

[JerseyBills]

Am i tripping or didn't Dabol leave because he got a hc offer? 

 

I know there's tension but he was never fired, he took a promotion with a different franchise. 

[TheBrownBear]

So, McDermott likes the "balance" of handing it to our running backs only 8 times over 60 minutes?  He likes the conservative playcalling, play design and balance of routinely having our pass-catchers run into each other (and sometimes knocking each other down) on passing plays?

[Mr. WEO]

McD didn't like scoring all those points, huh?

 

Genius...

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

Am i tripping or didn't Dabol leave because he got a hc offer? 

 

I know there's tension but he was never fired, he took a promotion with a different franchise. 

 

I never said he was fired. 

 

I said McD kind of had to accept that Daboll was going to go rogue and do it his way and couldn't really do anything about it without losing the locker room, which probably drove him nuts. 

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

McD didn't like scoring all those points, huh?

 

Genius...

 

I see people can't read well. I did write a lot of text, so it's probably my fault. 

 

Check out sentence #2. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

When McDermott was introduced as HC and interviewed on WGR 550 he talked about a "physical run game" and playing in "snowy" Buffalo weather. 

 

And his first couple of years in 2017 and 2018 indicated he wanted to do that. 

 

Even in 2019 - going with 35 year old Frank Gore was telling. 

 

But - I think that plan changed when Allen improved, and Beane got Allen John Brown and Cole Beasley in 2019. 

 

After that it was Diggs in 2020 and the pass game naturally took over. 

 

 

 

[BillsFan692]

Absolutely 110%

 

The rift between daboll and mcd was obvious and some people just refuse to read between the lines.

 

Go back and watch the press conference after the games leading up to tampa bay game that year and some of the press conference after tampa.

 

You can hear it in McDs voice as he laments the offensive struggles and wants the team to be more two dimensional. 

 

You can hear dabs press conferences too where he basically laughs that off like there is no way that is happening lol

 

Then of course dabs and this offense went on a historic run pass pass pass and it was McDs disgusting mismanagement that cost us 13 seconds and a possible SB W.

 

DABS QUIT IMMEDIATELY AFTER! Now these 2 coaches cant even shake hands at midfield

Edited November 7, 2023 by BillsFan692

[nucci]

That offense was unstoppable in the playoffs and  probably won the Superbowl if his defense could kill off 13 seconds

[TheFunPolice]

Just now, BillsFan692 said:

Absolutely 110%

 

The rift between daboll and mcd was obvious and some people just refuse to read between the lines.

 

Go back and watch the press conference after the games leading up to tampa bay game that year and some of the press conference after tampa.

 

You can hear it in McDs voice as he laments the offensive struggles and wants the team to be more two dimensional. 

 

You can hear dabs press conferences too where he basically laughs that off

 

McDermott and McDaniel spend 2 minutes hugging midfield postgame but Daboll barely gets a tap on the hand and basically zero acknowledgement from McD after working here with him so closely for that long?

 

McD's team won the game and he still seemed furious or salty about something. 

 

Tellingly, the first thing that happens right after is Allen gives Daboll a huge hug and they laugh and chat.

 

 

[BillsFan692]

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

 

McDermott and McDaniel spend 2 minutes hugging midfield postgame but Daboll barely gets a tap on the hand and basically zero acknowledgement from McD after working here with him so closely for that long?

 

McD's team won the game and he still seemed furious or salty about something. 

 

Tellingly, the first thing that happens right after is Allen gives Daboll a huge hug and they laugh and chat.

 

 

Allen walked Daboll out of the stadium.

 

I am sure Sean loved that.

[Royale with Cheese]

That could be it.

 

I think it could be as simple as their personalities just don't get along.

 

McDermott is a buttoned up, disciplined and very organized guy.  Probably irons his polos and makes his bed to a perfect hotel quality tuck every morning.

Doesn't like comedies like Office Space and Super Troopers.  His comedy interests are probably Grumpy Old Men and 3 Men and a Baby.

 

Daboll caught hitting that vape more than once on TV and he was probably ripping that all the time at OBD, loud, a little sloppy, probably gets pizza cheese on his beard and doesn't wipe it off.  Probably has the smell of Buffalo Trace and weed on his breath in the mornings.  Loves Office Space and Super Troopers....probably Mr. Bean.   

[Steptide]

I don't buy this McD doesn't want a high power offense. Was he not in Carolina with Newton and one of the best offenses that year? Also, I've never once heard McDermott say he wants to be more conservative. I think if anything, McD is probably somewhat responsible for trying to make Josh more of a pocket passer, but I just don't buy that McDermott wants a jauron style offense. 

[BillsFan692]

1 minute ago, Steptide said:

I don't buy this McD doesn't want a high power offense. Was he not in Carolina with Newton and one of the best offenses that year? Also, I've never once heard McDermott say he wants to be more conservative. I think if anything, McD is probably somewhat responsible for trying to make Josh more of a pocket passer, but I just don't buy that McDermott wants a jauron style offense. 

There are two lines and you need to start reading between them.

 

Every single time McD says "balance" every time he says "two dimensional" every time he says "complimentary football" he is telling you CONSERVATIVE. 

 

What does balance mean? It means run more. What does 2 dimensional mean? It means run more. What does "complimentary football" mean? When sean says it he means long, methodical drives that chew up clock and keep his defense off the field.  CONSERVATIVE.

 

There is a reason why Bills are always in nail biters. CONSERVATIVE!

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Absolutely 110%

 

The rift between daboll and mcd was obvious and some people just refuse to read between the lines.

 

Go back and watch the press conference after the games leading up to tampa bay game that year and some of the press conference after tampa.

 

You can hear it in McDs voice as he laments the offensive struggles and wants the team to be more two dimensional. 

 

You can hear dabs press conferences too where he basically laughs that off like there is no way that is happening lol

 

Then of course dabs and this offense went on a historic run pass pass pass and it was McDs disgusting mismanagement that cost us 13 seconds and a possible SB W.

 

DABS QUIT IMMEDIATELY AFTER! Now these 2 coaches cant even shake hands at midfield

 

Daboll didn't quick lol.

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, Steptide said:

I don't buy this McD doesn't want a high power offense. Was he not in Carolina with Newton and one of the best offenses that year? Also, I've never once heard McDermott say he wants to be more conservative. I think if anything, McD is probably somewhat responsible for trying to make Josh more of a pocket passer, but I just don't buy that McDermott wants a jauron style offense. 

 

To be fair, I don't think Jauron wanted a "Jauron style offense", but when your QBs are horrible and you have no offensive skill players to speak of that's what you get. 

 

I'm not saying McD didn't want to score points and win, obviously he does. I think the issue was that McD was uncomfortable with that STYLE of scoring points because he probably saw it as unsustainable or not going to work in the playoffs. 

 

I also don't necessarily blame McD. His instincts and football acumen got him this HC job, and ultimately he's responsible. 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, BillsFan692 said:

There are two lines and you need to start reading between them.

 

Every single time McD says "balance" every time he says "two dimensional" every time he says "complimentary football" he is telling you CONSERVATIVE. 

 

What does balance mean? It means run more. What does 2 dimensional mean? It means run more. What does "complimentary football" mean? When sean says it he means long, methodical drives that chew up clock and keep his defense off the field.  CONSERVATIVE.

 

There is a reason why Bills are always in nail biters. CONSERVATIVE!

\

The Bills since 2020 lead the league by a wide margin in point differential.  They are in the least amount of nail biters of any team in the NFL.

[Bferra13]

15 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

So, McDermott likes the "balance" of handing it to our running backs only 8 times over 60 minutes?  He likes the conservative playcalling, play design and balance of routinely having our pass-catchers run into each other (and sometimes knocking each other down) on passing plays?

The theory someone brought up on WGR was not that they were scoring too many points. It's that they were scoring too many points too fast, not giving the defense enough time to recoup. Kinda makes sense when you think about the revolving d line he has going on.

[BillsFan692]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Daboll didn't quick lol.

I mean he didnt get fired, he decided to leave for greener pastures. He quit. In previous seasons although he could have left he opted to stay.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I don't buy this McD doesn't want a high power offense. Was he not in Carolina with Newton and one of the best offenses that year? Also, I've never once heard McDermott say he wants to be more conservative. I think if anything, McD is probably somewhat responsible for trying to make Josh more of a pocket passer, but I just don't buy that McDermott wants a jauron style offense. 

Not really true. The 2015 Panthers were 27th in passing attempts and first in rushing attempts. It was very ball-control centric. 

[BillsFan692]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

\

The Bills since 2020 lead the league by a wide margin in point differential.  They are in the least amount of nail biters of any team in the NFL.

I mean thats one way to present a statistic but its more likely just a few huge blow out wins that make things look that way. I watch every single game and I am rarely feeling comfortable in the 4th Q the past 2 years. What are you watching?

Edited November 7, 2023 by BillsFan692

[TheFunPolice]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Not really true. The 2015 Panthers were 27th in passing attempts and first in rushing attempts. It was very ball-control centric. 

 

Very much so. They steamrolled teams by running the ball and Cam would make the timely throws.

 

Newton really was Superman that season. It's incredible how quickly he fell off after that. 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Bferra13 said:

The theory someone brought up on WGR was not that they were scoring too many points. It's that they were scoring too many points too fast, not giving the defense enough time to recoup. Kinda makes sense when you think about the revolving d line he has going on.

Points win games. It's senseless to think not to score points.  No matter how. Maybe McDermott and defense need to act faster.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

I mean thats one way to present a statistic but its more likely just a few huge blow out wins that make things look that way. I watch every single game and I am rarely feeling comfortable in the 4th Q the past 2 years. What are you watching?

 

I'm not sure what you're watching but when I say it's not even close, it's not even close.

So no, it's not just a few blow outs.  What are you watching?

 

 

[JoPoy88]

25 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I'm no fan of Dorsey, but I think what we're seeing is the type of offensive approach that McDermott has ALWAYS wanted. Not that he doesn't want points, but he wants "balance." 

 

McD is a smart guy, a great defensive mind, but also an Alpha. This is HIS team. He has an idea of how to win. 

 

The difference with Daboll was that he did it his way, throwing 10-15 times in a row to start games and having guys flying all over the place. Allen was a bulldozer. The offense was cranking.

 

I think McDermott was uncomfortable with that approach and probably tried to get Daboll to change and that's the cause of the obvious tension between the 2 that got worse and worse until the end. At the end of the day, McDermott couldn't say too much because it was working and the team was winning and the players would have probably sided with Daboll if things blew up about it, so McDermott had to just go along with it.

 

Why else would McD have such hard feelings about Daboll? And he does, we don't need to argue the blatantly obvious. 

 

Obviously McD wants wins. Ultimately the HC gets the most credit, along with the QB. So it's a tense standoff. 

 

If it came down to a "him or me" argument McD might not have been the owner's (or superstar QBs) choice when the offense is scoring at will and Allen is becoming a superstar and the team is winning "because of offense" (which also must have driven him crazy on some level). 

 

It was also the defense that let the team down in 13 seconds. 

 

As a HC, I can see how he might see it as Daboll trying to one up him. I could see him feeling disrespected, regardless of the outcome of it. He's the HC and it's supposed to be his program, but the OC was a big personality who was getting all sorts of credit for doing the opposite of what McD wanted. 

 

What was McD going to do? Fire him? There would have been a mutiny. McD would have lost the locker room. 

 

But now, Dorsey is just a guy and McDermott can put his stamp on the offense. Now offensive guys are frustrated, unhappy, and want their offense back, regardless of who is calling the plays. 

 

That's the reason for the Diggs outbursts, Allen's malaise, and Florio's obnoxious "Jenga tower" articles after every Bills loss. 

 

My theory anyway as to what is going on with the offense. I'm not sure how much it matters who the OC is. 

 

 

 

 

So McDermott conspired with the Giants and forced them to hire Daboll as head coach? 

[BillMafia716ix]

I kind of agree. I mean it’s hard to go against it because it was working at the time. Daboll didn’t  have much balance in his offense either but the Bills were scoring points and it got a Daboll a HC job. My thoughts is McDermott wanted to promote from within to make Josh feel comfortable and didn’t want him learning a whole new offense which is understandable. 2 seasons in now I think he knows he made a mistake because the offense doesn’t have the same creativity it did under Daboll. 
 

Nothing they can do about it now unfortunately. So I think McDermott is going to ride it out and see if the offense improves. If not…I fully expect them to make a change at OC next season.

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

I mean he didnt get fired, he decided to leave for greener pastures. He quit. In previous seasons although he could have left he opted to stay.

 

So every time an Assistant Coordinator gets promoted to a HC role, they quit?  

Shanahan quit the Falcons?

Saleh quit the 49ers?

Siranni quit the Colts?

[TheFunPolice]

BTW I'm not saying McDermott is necessarily wrong either, because look at the Dolphins.

 

It seemed like their offense was legitimately unstoppable. Then they play some real teams AND Waddle gets banged up and they score 10, 14 points against those teams. 

 

Maybe he also saw what happened with Newton and wanted to avoid that with Allen. That also makes sense. 

 

Daboll was building a name for himself to get a HC gig and players don't think about preserving themselves...they think about winning and making plays right now. 

 

4 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

So McDermott conspired with the Giants and forced them to hire Daboll as head coach? 

 

I'll just assume you're kidding and don't actually think that was what the text I wrote was saying. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[dpberr]

My theory:  Both Sean McDermott and Brian Daboll are unlikeable coaches.  I don't think players like playing for either guy.  Daboll's shine just wore off very fast in NY because he's a hothead.

Edited November 7, 2023 by dpberr

[TheFunPolice]

Just now, dpberr said:

My theory:  Both Sean McDermott and Brian Daboll are unlikeable people.  I don't think players like playing for either guy.  Daboll's shine just wore off very fast in NY because he's a hothead.

 

that could certainly be true too

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

Feels like people are just trying to reinforce their initial skepticism of hiring a "defensive" coach.  
 

Dorsey literally said he was trying to mix up the styles.  People want to keep ignoring the facts and just blame it all on McD.  And if people have issues with McD, all good...but the offense...its not him.  It is Dorsey.  

 

In fact, despite TSW's best efforts to say otherwise, McD has actually been quite aggressive as a HC offensively, and easily the most aggressive we have had here in decades.  

 

Im pissed at McD too...but its because he hasn't fired Dorsey yet.  

[boyst]

McDermott and daboll didn't get along. It was an elephant in the room that the offense was one team and the defense another, for the most part. 

 

The energy and time spent by the organization including McD on the defense was frustrating to daboll who knew we needed more on offense than what we had going forward.

[TheFunPolice]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

Feels like people are just trying to reinforce their initial skepticism of hiring a "defensive" coach.  
 

Dorsey literally said he was trying to mix up the styles.  People want to keep ignoring the facts and just blame it all on McD.  And if people have issues with McD, all good...but the offense...its not him.  It is Dorsey.  

 

In fact, despite TSW's best efforts to say otherwise, McD has actually been quite aggressive as a HC offensively, and easily the most aggressive we have had here in decades.  

 

Im pissed at McD too...but its because he hasn't fired Dorsey yet.  

 

I'm totally for firing Dorsey as well but we're stuck for this season. 

[Warcodered]

25 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

When McDermott was introduced as HC and interviewed on WGR 550 he talked about a "physical run game" and playing in "snowy" Buffalo weather. 

 

And his first couple of years in 2017 and 2018 indicated he wanted to do that. 

 

Even in 2019 - going with 35 year old Frank Gore was telling. 

 

But - I think that plan changed when Allen improved, and Beane got Allen John Brown and Cole Beasley in 2019. 

 

After that it was Diggs in 2020 and the pass game naturally took over. 

 

 

 

If that was ever his actual plan him and Beane have never drafted or signed the free agents at O-line to make me think that's been their plan, it would make no ***** sense.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

All I know is, I miss the days we were in the opponents territory fairly consistently within about 4 plays!!!!

[ngbills]

McD acts all humble but eh wants credit. We win games 42-35 then its our O that is winning. We win 21-10 its our D. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

If Sean is truly is letting his ego and emotion make major decisions because of some need to get the "credit" for success and control the offense post-Daboll by limiting what Dorsey is doing then he's digging his own grave.  One of my former managers used to say the only way you're going to be successful as a manager is if the people working under you are successful.  I think that's also true in sports.

 

The other thing is the potential to lose the team.  He might have lost Diggs to this point.  It kind of looks that way.  Missing the playoffs looks quite possible and If he loses Allen because of real or perceived problems with the coaching staff that's going to be a problem too.  A major problem for McD.  Because if somebody has to go the owner is not going to fire (or trade) his franchise QB.

[BillsFan692]

28 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So every time an Assistant Coordinator gets promoted to a HC role, they quit?  

Shanahan quit the Falcons?

Saleh quit the 49ers?

 

Dont be so intentionally obtuse. Technically yes, those guys did quit and took new jobs with new teams.

 

However in this context, it matters if it was on good terms or not. But you know that already, dont you? Why would I have to spell that out for you.

 

And before you start your "it was on good terms" BS let me stop you right there. These two coaches couldnt even shake eachothers hands at midfield there is serious beef.

[Royale with Cheese]

28 minutes ago, dpberr said:

My theory:  Both Sean McDermott and Brian Daboll are unlikeable coaches.  I don't think players like playing for either guy.  Daboll's shine just wore off very fast in NY because he's a hothead.

 

Someone on here said that's one rumor they heard....Daboll was a hothead and that got under McDermott's skin.

[Heitz]

Bills fans on TBD after a loss (ESPECIALLY this season)