The Bills are done, stick a fork in them

[BillsVet]

Buffalo's mid-season funks typically start around week 5-7 and last for about 6-8 weeks.  Happened in 2020, 2021, 2022, and in the middle of it this year.  

 

Issue that needs discussion is why a playoff-level team, especially one with so many veterans, can't prevent that sort of slump.  We're getting closer to figuring it out, and it's a combination of Josh, McD, personnel decisions (GM/HC), and the OC.  They have to look in the mirror and be honest that some elements of this team are not right and haven't been for a few seasons. 

[Ramza86]

9 hours ago, HopefulFuture said:

I've watched these past 4 years, the window isn't closing, it's closed.

 

Allen isn't the answer. Good QB, but he can't win the clutch games. Oh I know fans will throw a multitude of excuses....coaching, personnel, and each have merit on their own right.

 

Beans and McD need to go, so does Allen. Let Diggs go to. Get what you can in trade value. That should be solid building blocks if the right management team and coaching staff are assembled.

 

Many will hate this opinion, but if your not accepting the reality of the current situation, then your living your Bills Fandom in la la land.

The current organizational make up, from management and coaching to roster personnel is not taking this team anywhere.

 

I know, hate it, hate me and a growing number that share this opinion, but it won't change the reality on the ground. This team is going nowhere, and the past 4+ years outcomes project this.

 

The time for denial is over. It's time to move on to acceptance.

Before will move an elite talent like Josh Allen....why dont we actually do what we should have done after 13 seconds and clear out the entire staff and start with a strong offensive mind running the helm? What do you think?

[HopefulFuture]

1 minute ago, Ramza86 said:

Before will move an elite talent like Josh Allen....why dont we actually do what we should have done after 13 seconds and clear out the entire staff and start with a strong offensive mind running the helm? What do you think?

I'm never opposed to trying different approaches. The one we are on now is a failure.

[mrags]

8 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

they don’t have the positive energy and passion.  I think it’s lack of belief in the staff. 

I was thinking this. I was actually going to start a new thread about it. And about why we picked up and traded for the 3 players we did last week. They’ve all been winners. All been to the Super Bowl. It makes me wonder if McD senses this team has lost faith in him and he needs to inject it with new guys that will help him stabilize the locker room. I fully expect all 3 of them to start next week. 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

9 hours ago, HopefulFuture said:

I've watched these past 4 years, the window isn't closing, it's closed.

 

Allen isn't the answer. Good QB, but he can't win the clutch games. Oh I know fans will throw a multitude of excuses....coaching, personnel, and each have merit on their own right.

 

Beans and McD need to go, so does Allen. Let Diggs go to. Get what you can in trade value. That should be solid building blocks if the right management team and coaching staff are assembled.

 

Many will hate this opinion, but if your not accepting the reality of the current situation, then your living your Bills Fandom in la la land.

The current organizational make up, from management and coaching to roster personnel is not taking this team anywhere.

 

I know, hate it, hate me and a growing number that share this opinion, but it won't change the reality on the ground. This team is going nowhere, and the past 4+ years outcomes project this.

 

The time for denial is over. It's time to move on to acceptance.

 

 

[corta765]

10 hours ago, Simon said:

I bet you're awesome in a foxhole.

 

"Stand up so they can end it faster" 

[Matt_In_NH]

Can we put all these Nancy's in one forum somewhere....to fight about how bad the Bills are and are always going to be?   They can panic, call everyone names and talk about who should be fired immediatly.

[HopefulFuture]

29 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Can we put all these Nancy's in one forum somewhere....to fight about how bad the Bills are and are always going to be?   They can panic, call everyone names and talk about who should be fired immediatly.

Care to elaborate where name calling was done?

 

You entered a pretty straight forward titled thread. You knew it wasn't going to be a positive read, yet, like a good little hypocrite, you entered the thread to attempt to thump on someone's opinion by what......that's right, being a Nancy.

 

Nice meeting you.

[Eastport bills]

10 hours ago, HopefulFuture said:

I've watched these past 4 years, the window isn't closing, it's closed.

 

Allen isn't the answer. Good QB, but he can't win the clutch games. Oh I know fans will throw a multitude of excuses....coaching, personnel, and each have merit on their own right.

 

Beans and McD need to go, so does Allen. Let Diggs go to. Get what you can in trade value. That should be solid building blocks if the right management team and coaching staff are assembled.

 

Many will hate this opinion, but if your not accepting the reality of the current situation, then your living your Bills Fandom in la la land.

The current organizational make up, from management and coaching to roster personnel is not taking this team anywhere.

 

I know, hate it, hate me and a growing number that share this opinion, but it won't change the reality on the ground. This team is going nowhere, and the past 4+ years outcomes project this.

 

The time for denial is over. It's time to move on to acceptance.

With fans like you, who needs enemies. What a fair weathered snowflake. Just jump ship at the first sign of turbulence. Fire everyone, trade JA17 , give up on the season, burn whatever Bills gear you have. You need to bleed internally like Jet and Giant fans and fans of most NFL teams,that would give their house to have a team like the Bills. What denial, their defense is without their core players( Tre, Milano, Jones and Miller is a shell of himself still. They’ll still win 10 games and be a tough out in the playoffs. I guess 4 division titles and 4 playoff wins don’t get you much cred when you’re behind in the division, mid season, by a game. Save your whining for the guys in the bar ingrate.

[Jauronimo]

I wonder if the people who espouse this type of ***** actually live by this code in their real lives?

 

Didn't get the promotion at work:  resign, punch my boss, last ditch effort to bang hot secretary.  

 

Dishwasher broke: burn the house down, fake my death, start a new life in Mexico.  

 

Wife burned my toast: divorce, put the kids up for adoption, and have the dog put down. 

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

It's almost time to blow it all up.  You can't get rid of Allen because that's your centerpiece, but you can reshape the roster around him. 

 

It's a shame that we can't trade Diggs (dead cap) because he'd fetch a nice return.  

[HopefulFuture]

21 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

With fans like you, who needs enemies. What a fair weathered snowflake. Just jump ship at the first sign of turbulence. Fire everyone, trade JA17 , give up on the season, burn whatever Bills gear you have. You need to bleed internally like Jet and Giant fans and fans of most NFL teams,that would give their house to have a team like the Bills. What denial, their defense is without their core players( Tre, Milano, Jones and Miller is a shell of himself still. They’ll still win 10 games and be a tough out in the playoffs. I guess 4 division titles and 4 playoff wins don’t get you much cred when you’re behind in the division, mid season, by a game. Save your whining for the guys in the bar ingrate.

Heard this before, post 94 season. 

These current Bills, a rough out in the playoffs? They aren't making the playoffs, they'll need a couple seasons to figure out the problem.

4+ seasons, same results, no championship, not even a championship game, moving backwards in the standings, actually becoming mediocre and eventually, back to irrelevant. 

Division titles, that's the Bills Super Bowl victories if your logic holds. Well good for you, you 4 AFC East Division Super Bowl wins in a row. The rest of the league in the meantime are making moves to improve their real Super Bowl chances.

 

But hey, we'll always have those Division Titles to cuddle up with on those cold, dark seasons done nights.

Edited November 6, 2023 by HopefulFuture

[chongli]

 

[JerseyBills]

RELAX

[Paup 1995MVP]

8 hours ago, Nelius said:

I don't think running the math at 5-3 makes me "most optimistic". Now it's 5-4 and I'm not. That's realistic, which is not to be confused with the stuff that guys like you and Airseven do before the season even starts.

We are going to need at least 10 wins to have a shot at the playoffs.  Have to beat the Broncos and Jets to get things turned around.  Then the gauntlet starts.  KC Philly Dallas Chargers.  And finish with NE and Miami.  No gimmes.  If the team was playing well I could see a 6-2 finish.  But we are not.  Offense gets nothing out of Harty Sherfield Murray Knox and Davis.  It’s Cook Diggs and Kincaid.  And now some Shakir which should have happened from the start of the year.  (That’s on the offensive coaches for not making the kid a big part of the offense from Day 1 of camp.  Same w Kincaid)  And some Josh Allen runs which never happen in the 1st half.  But start when we are desperate later in the game. 
 

Josh is still a baller.  Love watching him play.   But the offense is not a well oiled machine.  And the passion is lacking.  We barely get plays off before the 40 second clock expires.  The O line is average at best.  And Spencer Brown should not be on the field.  He is a huge liability.  Defense has a lot of injuries.  And the D line has no game changers.  Taron Johnson is a liability in coverage even though he is a great tackler.   Just too small to cover most WR’s.  Safety’s are old and slow if not tough as nails.  Roster is mediocre at best.  And losing Milano Jones and White was brutal.  Because the rest of defense is at best average as a whole.  
 

McDermott is not going to lead this team anywhere close to a championship.  His Mojo ended at 13 seconds.  If we can’t turn it around and at least be competitive and a tough out every week, the whole coaching staff needs to go after this season. 

[Ghost_002!]

43 minutes ago, HopefulFuture said:

 

 

From a fan of your rivals. The Patriots. I give you all the credit in the world for willing to come with this opinion against your fellow mafia brethren.

 

But I can say, Josh Allen is a generational talent. A once in a life time thing...you don't just get rid of that in such a short time, championship or not. You tweak everything around him, but you do not give up on that type of talent too soon.

 

That's just crazy, something that would get you fired in a heart beat if you were a GM.

[C.Biscuit97]

9 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

Eh, they have a million other injuries as well. And maybe Frazier wasn’t as bad as he was made out to be either.

[HopefulFuture]

4 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

From a fan of your rivals. The Patriots. I give you all the credit in the world for willing to come with this opinion against your fellow mafia brethren.

 

But I can say, Josh Allen is a generational talent. A once in a life time thing...you don't just get rid of that in such a short time, championship or not. You tweak everything around him, but you do not give up on that type of talent too soon.

 

That's just crazy, something that would get you fired in a heart beat if you were a GM.

I don't have an unreasonable opinion of the state of affairs when it comes to Buffalo sports to be honest. As a New England fan, be it football, baseball, basketball or hockey, the Boston area has experienced the joy of championships. In my lifetime, I've watched Buffalo's pro basketball team leave, and the hockey and football teams fail, in some cases in spectacular fashion, while not ever winning a championship.

I gave up having starry eyes for a  player long ago. It's all about a championship before I die for me. 53 years, nothing, I could care less if my fellow WNY'ers don't approve, I'm not interested in player Fandom, I'm interested in actual results.

 

"Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and ***** the prom queen."

[Ghost_002!]

23 minutes ago, HopefulFuture said:

I don't have an unreasonable opinion of the state of affairs when it comes to Buffalo sports to be honest. As a New England fan, be it football, baseball, basketball or hockey, the Boston area has experienced the joy of championships. In my lifetime, I've watched Buffalo's pro basketball team leave, and the hockey and football teams fail, in some cases in spectacular fashion, while not ever winning a championship.

I gave up having starry eyes for a  player long ago. It's all about a championship before I die for me. 53 years, nothing, I could care less if my fellow WNY'ers don't approve, I'm not interested in player Fandom, I'm interested in actual results.

 

"Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and ***** the prom queen."

 

 

I get where you are coming from...but you move on from Allen and it would be another 50 years hoping for a championship..

 

I think people need to chill from jumping off that ledge bit...

 

Still got like 8 games left despite what you are seeing...the Bills are still very dangerous...

[Tommy Callahan]

The worst thing about being a contender is the bandwagon jumpers. they want perfection. anything else becomes reasoning to jump on the next bandwagon.

 

 

[rm -rf /*]

27 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said:

The worst thing about being a contender is the bandwagon jumpers. they want perfection. anything else becomes reasoning to jump on the next bandwagon.

 

This has nothing to do with being a contender and everything to do with Buffalo and the Bills. It was like this even when we were sucking the hind tit year in and year out.  I knew this place would be in the deep crevice of a downward bipolar swing today. You can set your watch by it, truly remarkable.

 

I don't need anything perfect, just a punchers chance. I think we get the chance to take it, lot of football left.

[Eastport bills]

1 hour ago, HopefulFuture said:

Heard this before, post 94 season. 

These current Bills, a rough out in the playoffs? They aren't making the playoffs, they'll need a couple seasons to figure out the problem.

4+ seasons, same results, no championship, not even a championship game, moving backwards in the standings, actually becoming mediocre and eventually, back to irrelevant. 

Division titles, that's the Bills Super Bowl victories if your logic holds. Well good for you, you 4 AFC East Division Super Bowl wins in a row. The rest of the league in the meantime are making moves to improve their real Super Bowl chances.

 

But hey, we'll always have those Division Titles to cuddle up with on those cold, dark seasons done nights.

I would love to have you put up a grand to put some skin in the game and get you to root against the Bills, because you’re so sure they’re finished. Sadly, your thing is posting nasty, inflammatory remarks on the board to be outrageous. You’re just a simple troll with issues you can’t resolve in a normal way. When the team wins another division have the testicles to come back and look foolish. By the way, how many teams won the SB in the last 4 years? The answer is 3. 2 of them are fighting for last place in weak divisions and have had losing records since their SB  year. That leaves KC . Our record for the last 4 seasons is better than any other team in the AFC other than KC. Wait for the season to play out for all the other teams who are making moves, to crash and burn. 

[26TrapDraw]

12 hours ago, Breakout Squad said:

We have the depth on our roster to make it to the playoffs. Allen needs to carry us there

and then do what? See this is the point. Why bother.

[zow2]

We made Mac Jones look like vintage Joe Namath.  I'll never forget that walk-off TD drive.  The Commanders with their 2 best edge DE/edge rushers GONE beat them in Foxboro.  The Saints beat them 34-0 in Foxboro.  

[BufBills83]

We need to win the next 2 games to get to 7-4.  That's an absolute must.  Then we'll see what happens in the Eagles game before the bye.  If we can somehow pull the Eagles game out, going 8-4 into the bye is not a bad place at all.  If we're 7-5, we probably need to go 3-2 in the last 5 to make it into the playoffs at 10-7.  That means most likely beating New England, Miami, and 1 of the other 3 games against KC, Dallas and LAC.  I don't think that's unrealistic.

[Low Positive]

Everybody posting in this thread needs to go back and read the OP. Do this many Bills fans actually agree with trading Josh Allen for the Bears' two firsts and conducting a down-to-the-studs rebuild? One 6-point loss drove everyone to this level of insanity. Listen, I'm upset too. But that's just crazy talk and I have seen multiple people on here propose just this. People do know that most 1st round QBs actually bust, don't they?

[Paup 1995MVP]

11 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Everybody posting in this thread needs to go back and read the OP. Do this many Bills fans actually agree with trading Josh Allen for the Bears' two firsts and conducting a down-to-the-studs rebuild? One 6-point loss drove everyone to this level of insanity. Listen, I'm upset too. But that's just crazy talk and I have seen multiple people on here propose just this. People do know that most 1st round QBs actually bust, don't they?

Josh Allen is the Bills.  He isn’t going anywhere nor should he.  Getting rid of him is crazy talk.  He is a generational talent.  The head coach is not though.  Nothing special in the slightest about him. 
 

This season is on the brink.  We can rise and put together a great second half of the season, and look like the team we all hoped and thought we would be after beating Miami week 4.  Or we can act like a beaten bunch of ***** that have quit and look rudderless with no leadership.  
 

McDermott and the rest of the coaches future w the team should hinge on that.  

[Low Positive]

Just now, Paup 1995MVP said:

Josh Allen is the Bills.  He isn’t going anywhere nor should he.  Getting rid of him is crazy talk.  He is a generational talent.  The head coach is not though.  Nothing special in the slightest about him. 
 

This season is on the brink.  We can rise and put together a great second half of the season, and look like the team we all hoped and thought we would be after beating Miami week 4.  Or we can act like a beaten bunch of ***** that have quit and look rudderless with no leadership.  
 

McDermott and the rest of the coaches future w the team should hinge on that.  

I couldn't agree with all of this anymore if I tried. It's just that I think a lot of people read this thread title and assumed that the OP meant that the Bills are done for this season. No, he meant forever. 

[MasterStrategist]

2 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I couldn't agree with all of this anymore if I tried. It's just that I think a lot of people read this thread title and assumed that the OP meant that the Bills are done for this season. No, he meant forever. 

Agree.  I think most realistic fans knew last night was going to be a difficult task, but possible if Josh/offense carried the way.  

 

Fact is season isn't over, just that we're seeing some "key issues" / injuries that are mounting.  I put it at 50/50 we make the playoffs, just is what it is...frustrating, but it happens to good teams every year.

 

These next 2 games are the must wins, then another steep challenge with the Eagles.  We need to beat either: Eagles, Boys, Chiefs, or Dolphins...must-win: Broncos, Jets, Chargers, Pats

 

Getting 10 wins is a must, to have a shot for 7th seed.  I think it will take min 11 wins to win the division, if we beat Miami last week of season.  

 

I'll hold onto hope, until/if we lose a must win.  Then I'll start thinking more about big picture/future

[jahnyc]

This shouldn't even be a discussion.  JA is the most talented QB we ever have had.  He really is a generational talent.

 

As to to what this thread has become in terms of our prospects for this season, I am not optimistic about the remainder of the season.  The injuries keep piling up on defense and many of them are of the variety that will not allow the players to return this season (Milano, White and Jones).  Losing to the Pats and the Jets (with Wilson at QB) and what should have been a loss to the Giants informs my view.

[HopefulFuture]

12 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I couldn't agree with all of this anymore if I tried. It's just that I think a lot of people read this thread title and assumed that the OP meant that the Bills are done for this season. No, he meant forever. 

I didn't mean forever, nor did I state such. I meant both this season as well as the foreseeable future while this management team, coaching staff and current roster configuration remain.

 

There is nothing to indicate this organization will win a championship with the personnel up and down the hierarchy it has now. As a matter of actual fact, every indication is they will continue to fail.

[BigDingus]

Allen isn't on Mahomes or Burrow's level, but he's good enough to win.

 

We need better coaching & better weapons though. May as well stop wasting resources on RBs too, since we never use them anyway. 

 

Go all in on OL & WRs, then get a more competent offensive play caller. Defense is bipolar, but they held the Bengals to 3 points in the 2nd half, and that's with all the injuries to key players. 

[Low Positive]

So, lets make a "Trade Josh Allen" roll call. So far today, I've seen

1. @Pine Barrens Mafia
2. @Yawning Frog
3. @HopefulFuture

Anyone else?

[rm -rf /*]

1 hour ago, 26TrapDraw said:

and then do what? See this is the point. Why bother.

 

Why arise and suck air each day?

[Yawning Frog]

This is what I would call a B or B+ organization. And what do I mean by this? It means that the Bills are the type of organization that the bad to mediocre teams wish they could be. like making the playoffs maybe winning a playoff game here or there but not what the real Super Bowl contenders or elite teams want anything to do with.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Yawning Frog

[MPL]

Watching the game last night, I kept thinking that this version of the Bills looks burned out. It's written on their faces and in their energy. They have the look of a fighter that knows they have lost the fight and are just trying to not get knocked out. Even McDermott looks completely burned out. 

 

This roster needs a reset. And I think you've got to strongly consider bringing in an offensive head coach with a new staff that can potentially maximize Josh Allen's talent. New energy, new team, new belief that they can win. If they're lucky, they can flip the roster in 2 years and have a new window open in 3 years. Because I think Josh Allen has 3–5 years left. And with his style of play, I fear that it's probably closer to 3 years before his physical tools really decline. 

 

[26TrapDraw]

18 minutes ago, rm -rf /* said:

 

Why arise and suck air each day?

I ask myself that everyday

[90sBills]

55 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I couldn't agree with all of this anymore if I tried. It's just that I think a lot of people read this thread title and assumed that the OP meant that the Bills are done for this season. No, he meant forever. 

I think most fans reading this thread know that trading away Allen is crazy. That’s just frustration talking from the op and I get that. There are problems with this team, including its qb. But you’re not trading away a franchise qb just because a championship hasn’t been accomplished. You continue to build around him and hope for the best. 

[HopefulFuture]

3 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

I would love to have you put up a grand to put some skin in the game and get you to root against the Bills, because you’re so sure they’re finished. Sadly, your thing is posting nasty, inflammatory remarks on the board to be outrageous. You’re just a simple troll with issues you can’t resolve in a normal way. When the team wins another division have the testicles to come back and look foolish. By the way, how many teams won the SB in the last 4 years? The answer is 3. 2 of them are fighting for last place in weak divisions and have had losing records since their SB  year. That leaves KC . Our record for the last 4 seasons is better than any other team in the AFC other than KC. Wait for the season to play out for all the other teams who are making moves, to crash and burn. 

KC has Super Bowl rings.....the Bills? Not so much. As a matter of fact, the Bills haven't been to a championship game since the early 90's.

And there's another brilliant move by the Bills, trading the pick away to move down in the draft to pick up an extra worthless pick, passing on Mahomes. Just straight out dumb, even if it wasn't known at the time what Mahomes would become, which of course is a much better QB than Allen. Sometimes the truth hurts, the pain runs deep.

[Rigotz]

Bills fans wait 30 years for a great QB to come to town and then want to trade him for draft picks.

 

The sheer idiocy of this mentality ....