Williams and Bernard

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Milano is an elite playmaker, but the silver lining in losing him is that he plays the most easily replaceable position on a defense. 

 

I'm gladly eating crow on the back to back RD3 LB picks, because Bernard looks very good and early returns on Dorian Williams are that he could follow a sped up trajectory as a read/react linebacker without the MLB responsibilities. 

I know - when Milano is back you have to take a solid player off of the field. 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Wasn’t good in his zone coverage. So that’s a worry moving forward.

True, but when it comes to pass coverage, he’s already far better than Dobson or Klein even though he’s a greenhorn LB with one start under his belt. 

[billsfan89]

Williams will have some growing pains but he had some nice plays and was all over the field. He just needs more time and experience to stop over pursuing and be in the right place more consistently. But he looks like he belongs which is a good sign. Hopefully by December he is a lot better.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Look at our little linebacker.

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

They doubled ford and moved him, then the guard got to 2nd level.  When ford came out and they tried it again phillips split the double team and was in the backfield. 

 

And there is almost no linebacker in the league who is going to hold up when a guard gets his hands on him flush at the second level. 

 

My overall take on Williams is he was better than last week for sure. He is so fast and instinctive at times he has a tendency to get to his spot too early or overrun his gap / drop point in coverage. But I'd much rather be trying to reign that in with a guy with speed, instincts and talent than trying to put AJ Klein out there knowing full well they are spots he just can't get to in time. There is a lot to like in Williams game and as the game slows down for him and as he slows himself down I think you will see a better player. I'd be interested in @HoofHearted or @Buffalo716 opinions on some of his coverage drops because they were the weakness to me last night, especially two of those shorter 3rd down completions Tyrod had where it felt like he almost outran his spot but without having looked at the A22 yet, obviously, I thought he graded pretty well against the run, chasing down plays and attacking the ball carrier. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And there is almost no linebacker in the league who is going to hold up when a guard gets his hands on him flush at the second level. 

 

My overall take on Williams is he was better than last week for sure. He is so fast and instinctive at times he has a tendency to get to his spot too early or overrun his gap / drop point in coverage. But I'd much rather be trying to reign that in with a guy with speed, instincts and talent than trying to put AJ Klein out there knowing full well they are spots he just can't get to in time. There is a lot to like in Williams game and as the game slows down for him and as he slows himself down I think you will see a better player. I'd be interested in @HoofHearted or @Buffalo716 opinions on some of his coverage drops because they were the weakness to me last night, especially two of those shorter 3rd down completions Tyrod had where it felt like he almost outran his spot but without having looked at the A22 yet, obviously, I thought he graded pretty well against the run, chasing down plays and attacking the ball carrier. 

 

They were getting a decent amount of YAC on some of those throws too.  Couple yards short of the sticks turned into first downs or 3rd and shorts.  

[HoofHearted]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And there is almost no linebacker in the league who is going to hold up when a guard gets his hands on him flush at the second level. 

 

My overall take on Williams is he was better than last week for sure. He is so fast and instinctive at times he has a tendency to get to his spot too early or overrun his gap / drop point in coverage. But I'd much rather be trying to reign that in with a guy with speed, instincts and talent than trying to put AJ Klein out there knowing full well they are spots he just can't get to in time. There is a lot to like in Williams game and as the game slows down for him and as he slows himself down I think you will see a better player. I'd be interested in @HoofHearted or @Buffalo716 opinions on some of his coverage drops because they were the weakness to me last night, especially two of those shorter 3rd down completions Tyrod had where it felt like he almost outran his spot but without having looked at the A22 yet, obviously, I thought he graded pretty well against the run, chasing down plays and attacking the ball carrier. 

I know he overran his drop a couple times. I'd have to see the A22 to give a true opinion though. A lot of his faults right now are just eye discipline which will come with reps. I'm encouraged by what I've seen so far. You can't teach his speed and willingness to pull the trigger.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, HoofHearted said:

I know he overran his drop a couple times. I'd have to see the A22 to give a true opinion though. A lot of his faults right now are just eye discipline which will come with reps. I'm encouraged by what I've seen so far. You can't teach his speed and willingness to pull the trigger.

 

I think reps and just the game slowing for him. He is so fast and playing with such energy right now that at times it is just a tad frantic and he will learn that you don't have to be in perpetual motion to be effective. But agreed last night overall was encouring for him. 

[DKBills25]

Bernard is a baller I think he has earned his spot 

williams I think get to holes late 

whiffs on tackles … maybe I’m just used to Milano level but I think Klein would do better than Williams 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Success said:

I thought one of the biggest positives from that ugly game was the LB play.

 

Both of these guys seemed like they were all over the field, all night.  Just flying to where the ball was and making plays.  It seems like what we lack in size in the LB unit, we make up for in speed. 

 

I didn't really notice Milano's absence. Williams seemed like a vet out there.

 

Curious if anyone/everyone saw it the same way I did. There were mistakes, like Bernard's PI in the endzone that almost really cost the team, but overall I thought both guys were excellent.

 

 

 

Milano's absence sorely felt.  Giants are an O-line that hemorrhages sacks every week.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Between the LBs Oliver Rousseau and Floyd…I love this front 7 right now. Go add Surtain at the deadline to lock down the other CB and don’t worry about the Offensive issues. They are more then good enough but this defense could win us the Super Bowl 

[Heavy Kevi]

Williams looks alot like Tremaine to me. Always around the ball but seemed to be chasing.

 

Just my layman's observation

 

Bernard seemed calmer. Last week after Milano went down I think he was a bit shaken, but a week to prepare seemed to smooth that out for him.

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And there is almost no linebacker in the league who is going to hold up when a guard gets his hands on him flush at the second level. 

 

My overall take on Williams is he was better than last week for sure. He is so fast and instinctive at times he has a tendency to get to his spot too early or overrun his gap / drop point in coverage. But I'd much rather be trying to reign that in with a guy with speed, instincts and talent than trying to put AJ Klein out there knowing full well they are spots he just can't get to in time. There is a lot to like in Williams game and as the game slows down for him and as he slows himself down I think you will see a better player. I'd be interested in @HoofHearted or @Buffalo716 opinions on some of his coverage drops because they were the weakness to me last night, especially two of those shorter 3rd down completions Tyrod had where it felt like he almost outran his spot but without having looked at the A22 yet, obviously, I thought he graded pretty well against the run, chasing down plays and attacking the ball carrier. 

I'll take a look at it 

 

Yea he has lots of promise and too fast can be a real thing ... but with reps and coaching it's easier to correct than a guy like you said ... Who can't even get to the spot

 

He's fast and physical for sure 

[billsfan89]

28 minutes ago, DKBills25 said:

Bernard is a baller I think he has earned his spot 

williams I think get to holes late 

whiffs on tackles … maybe I’m just used to Milano level but I think Klein would do better than Williams 

 

I think its better to let Williams work out the kinks. KC and the Pats back in their dynasty would play young players in September to mid-November and let them take their lumps so that by late November they worked out the kinks in their games and they were rolling a lot better headed into the final 4-5 regular season games and playoffs. I think Williams will only get better as he gets a feel for the game. He looked to be flying all over the place in both games. He just needs to play a bit calmer which I think will happen the more snaps he gets. 

 

Klein may be a more "steady" hand but Klein is a vet who is what he is. Williams could and I think will get better with more snaps. I would rather take 6-7 more weeks of a young player making a few mistakes but gives them the chance to grow into a much better player come the playoffs than a vet who at best is around average. 

[DCofNC]

10 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Without seeing them step on a scale, I find it impossible to believe that Bernard weighs more than Milano. 

I don’t buy that either.  Williams looks noticeably bigger than everyone in the LB ranks and he’s still not a big guy.

9 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I know - when Milano is back you have to take a solid player off of the field. 

That’s ok, depth is great.  Milano is one of the very best in the game, unless somebody turns All-Probin his absence, he’s the guy you want out there. 

[John from Riverside]

12 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Bernard was good.  Maybe I'm ignorant but I didn't notice Williams much other than a bonus sack for him when Tyrod dropped the ball 

Dorien Williams was in the screenshot of nearly every play either in on the tackle or close to the tackle
 

He had several good plays in the game. He also had a couple of dingers like the runs that were given up for big yards to Barkley.

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Between the LBs Oliver Rousseau and Floyd…I love this front 7 right now. Go add Surtain at the deadline to lock down the other CB and don’t worry about the Offensive issues. They are more then good enough but this defense could win us the Super Bowl 

 

Surtain is not available. As I understand it he is pretty much the only player on that roster Denver are not willing to move. Sure if you threw a first and another high pick.... maybe that changes but I don't think that would be wise, even as much as I love Pat Surtain.

9 hours ago, DKBills25 said:

Bernard is a baller I think he has earned his spot 

williams I think get to holes late 

whiffs on tackles … maybe I’m just used to Milano level but I think Klein would do better than Williams 

 

I think if anything he gets to holes too early. He whiffed on a lot of tackles last week. Didn't see that on SNF. He was pretty good. 

[John from Riverside]

9 hours ago, Heavy Kevi said:

Williams looks alot like Tremaine to me. Always around the ball but seemed to be chasing.

 

Just my layman's observation

 

Bernard seemed calmer. Last week after Milano went down I think he was a bit shaken, but a week to prepare seemed to smooth that out for him.

Harris looks nothing like Tremaine Edmunds
 

Look a little closer

[GETTOTHE50]

The positions on defense that require the best instinct are linebackers. You need to have a feel for everything that’s going on since you’re constantly in the middle of the field. Milano, Bernard, and Williams have shown to have great instinct. Yes even Williams because he is flying out there without any hesitation 

[LyndonvilleBill]

16 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I know - when Milano is back you have to take a solid player off of the field. 

Do we have to? Personally,  I'd like to see more 4-3. And if Milano and Williams can cover in pass plays, it'd be nice to have the extra LB against the run as well. I know it's not our base D, but... TB, Milano and Williams... I like the thought. 😁

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Do we have to? Personally,  I'd like to see more 4-3. And if Milano and Williams can cover in pass plays, it'd be nice to have the extra LB against the run as well. I know it's not our base D, but... TB, Milano and Williams... I like the thought. 😁

Then you take Taron off the field, also a solid player 

[CSBill]

20 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Williams is another clone just a little more raw and out of control which leads to him over-pursuing plays and being out of position too much on runs

 

So, essentially, he replaces Edmunds.

[DaggersEOD]

19 hours ago, TampaBillsJunkie said:

I was ok with Williams. He needs time and there is a definitive drop off from Milano to Williams. Hopefully he continues to improve and learns to play smarter.  Where we were really hurting on D is the loss of Daquan Jones.  The Cincinnati playoff game was when I really noticed his impact. He just quietly makes everyone around him so much better. The D-line barely got pressure on Tyrod. ONE SACK on a team that gives up 5-6 a game. That was pitiful.  Phillips has him moments, but he just doesn't command the attention that Daquan does. Ford was not good. I can see why he was an inactive. 

 

The same goes for Elam. Missing Dane Jackson really hurt the secondary. Elam is brutal and we need to figure out what to do at corner. If we make any trades, CB has to be the top target.  A good #2 WR is next.

I think Taylor was just playing fast. Much faster than Jones, so the ball came out quicker, leading to fewer pressures/sacks. 
 

Jones holds onto the ball (when he isn’t fumbling it) much too long. If he was in there, I think you’d see that D performance you were expecting IMO

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Look at our other little linebacker.

 

 

 

[PayDaBill$]

15 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Dorien Williams was in the screenshot of nearly every play either in on the tackle or close to the tackle
 

He had several good plays in the game. He also had a couple of dingers like the runs that were given up for big yards to Barkley.

5 solo tackles 10 combo, I like his instinct.

[Sierra Foothills]

From today's Buffalo News:

 

"Bernard wasn't just pumping up his teammate when he said that. Williams did, indeed, turn in several impactful tackles. In the second quarter alone, Williams either made a solo tackle or assisted in bringing down Barkley four times on plays in which the Giants' star running back gained 2 yards or less, including one for a loss of 2 yards and another for no gain on a second-and-1 run.

 

In the third quarter, Williams again stopped Barkley, with help from A.J. Epenesa, after a gain of just 2 yards on a first-and-10 play, and also limited a scramble by Giants quarterback Tyrod Taylor to just a 3-yard gain on third-and-14. In the fourth quarter, Williams forced a Taylor incompletion by getting pressure on a third-and-1 play from the Bills' 11-yard line, leading to the Giants kicking a field goal."

[Buffalo716]

13 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Then you take Taron off the field, also a solid player 

Arguably the best well rounded slot in the league ... Tough in run support ..  can blitz off the edge .... Physical man corner and adept in zone 

 

That's why we are base nickel ... It has everything to do with Taron 

[Sierra Foothills]

46 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

From today's Buffalo News:

 

"Bernard wasn't just pumping up his teammate when he said that. Williams did, indeed, turn in several impactful tackles. In the second quarter alone, Williams either made a solo tackle or assisted in bringing down Barkley four times on plays in which the Giants' star running back gained 2 yards or less, including one for a loss of 2 yards and another for no gain on a second-and-1 run.

 

In the third quarter, Williams again stopped Barkley, with help from A.J. Epenesa, after a gain of just 2 yards on a first-and-10 play, and also limited a scramble by Giants quarterback Tyrod Taylor to just a 3-yard gain on third-and-14. In the fourth quarter, Williams forced a Taylor incompletion by getting pressure on a third-and-1 play from the Bills' 11-yard line, leading to the Giants kicking a field goal."

 

Also...  "It was great," Williams said of the experience. "The fans kept giving us energy throughout the game. Obviously, got some things to clean up and play better next week." That part is also true. Williams did miss a pair of tackles, according to analytics website Pro Football Focus, so it wasn't a perfect showing. One of those came on Barkley's 34-yard run in the fourth quarter – New York's longest play of the night.

 

[AuntieEm]

On 10/16/2023 at 12:04 PM, Ramza86 said:

I want to say I noticed anything...but for the most part the Giants really did nothing all game.

Hoping part of the reason Giants couldn't do anything was that our guys had things covered enough to disrupt the Giants offense.  If they aren't all that taĺented on their offense can't hold it against s inst our defense that the did stop them when it mattered. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by AuntieEm

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

46 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Arguably the best well rounded slot in the league ... Tough in run support ..  can blitz off the edge .... Physical man corner and adept in zone 

 

That's why we are base nickel ... It has everything to do with Taron 

He’s kind of what the 90s era strong safety was. 

[HoofHearted]

17 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Do we have to? Personally,  I'd like to see more 4-3. And if Milano and Williams can cover in pass plays, it'd be nice to have the extra LB against the run as well. I know it's not our base D, but... TB, Milano and Williams... I like the thought. 😁

Why? Genuinely asking.

[Buffalo716]

On 10/16/2023 at 2:34 PM, HoofHearted said:

I know he overran his drop a couple times. I'd have to see the A22 to give a true opinion though. A lot of his faults right now are just eye discipline which will come with reps. I'm encouraged by what I've seen so far. You can't teach his speed and willingness to pull the trigger.

He definitely has the ability to pull the trigger ...  Closing speed for days .... Probably playing too fast RN which will come with the reps but a lot to like...  he bursts off the screen when he is clean and should really settle down in time vs pass... I really like his ability to finish 

On 10/16/2023 at 2:38 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

I think reps and just the game slowing for him. He is so fast and playing with such energy right now that at times it is just a tad frantic and he will learn that you don't have to be in perpetual motion to be effective. But agreed last night overall was encouring for him. 

He has a lot going for him ... His drops aren't there yet but that comes with snaps ... He needs more discipline 

 

A few overruns ...  but he is playing with speed and a quick trigger ...  so that shows he isn't thinking too much 

 

I would have to watch all of his snaps but he has lots of promise and I think the ball is gonna find him soon 

 

McDermott has an eye for modern NFL LBrs

Edited October 18, 2023 by Buffalo716

[John from Riverside]

We should all want our young linebackers to play

 

They are on cost control contracts

Their ceiling is just going to continue to go up as they continue to play with more experience

 

It also has long lasting implications like draft selections. If we have found a Lbrs we don’t need to use those pics on other line backers they can go to other positions.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by John from Riverside

[LyndonvilleBill]

5 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

Why? Genuinely asking.

As you can see from my avatar, I like Williams. Bernard is playing great imo, and when Millano gets back I don't think you can keep him off the field (as long as he is himself). I'd like to see all 3 of them on the field and see what they can do together. 

[machine gun kelly]

On 10/16/2023 at 12:06 PM, Rc2catch said:

That’s kinda how I viewed him. He’s fast, but almost playing too fast. Lot of positives in his game so far 

That’s the consensus opinion he is almost over pursuing, but has good instincts.  With playing time, he’ll settle down.  Milano is my favorite guy on defense, but he improved from 2017 and beyond.  You don’t get the finished product from a rookie as they grow in time.  I believe he’s doing a nice job given the few starts.  Bernard on the other hand is doing great, but he was raw as well last year.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

47 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

As you can see from my avatar, I like Williams. Bernard is playing great imo, and when Millano gets back I don't think you can keep him off the field (as long as he is himself). I'd like to see all 3 of them on the field and see what they can do together. 

For the life of me I don’t understand why Taron Johnson couldn’t move to outside CB in this scenario. I’ve brought this up before when discussing a 3 safety look. The Ravens had the best slot CB in football in Marlon Humphrey, but would move him outside when needed. Now he’s full time outside.

 

The Panthers did run a lot of 3 LBs with McDermott as DC when they drafted Shaq Thompson.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[LyndonvilleBill]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

For the life of me I don’t understand why Taron Johnson couldn’t move to outside CB in this scenario. I’ve brought this up before when discussing a 3 safety look. The Ravens had the best slot CB in football in Marlon Humphrey, but would move him outside when needed. Now he’s full time outside.

 

The Panthers did run a lot of 3 LBs with McDermott as DC when they drafted Shaq Thompson.

I'm not sure Johnson has the speed to play outside. I believe he's a 4.5+ guy and I think he is quicker than fast which I think makes him very good in the Nickle role. Humphrey has the length and speed to play outside and if I remember correctly,  he was projected to be an OCB. 

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

For the life of me I don’t understand why Taron Johnson couldn’t move to outside CB in this scenario. I’ve brought this up before when discussing a 3 safety look. The Ravens had the best slot CB in football in Marlon Humphrey, but would move him outside when needed. Now he’s full time outside.

 

The Panthers did run a lot of 3 LBs with McDermott as DC when they drafted Shaq Thompson.

 

Humphrey is 6ft, has 32 and 1/4 inch arms, runs a 4.41 and played outside corner in college. He also always played outside corner in Baltimore in base, but then he'd go inside in nickel and they'd bring another boundary corner in. Similar to how Denver used to use Chris Harris back in the day. 

 

Taron Johnson is 5ft10 with 30 and 7/8 inch arms, runs 4.50 and has never played outside corner ever. I love him as a slot. He is one of the best 3 or 4 slot corners in football. But he just doesn't have the length or speed to play outside for me. 

[HoofHearted]

1 hour ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

As you can see from my avatar, I like Williams. Bernard is playing great imo, and when Millano gets back I don't think you can keep him off the field (as long as he is himself). I'd like to see all 3 of them on the field and see what they can do together. 

Why does that make us better I guess is what I’m really asking?

[LyndonvilleBill]

9 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Why does that make us better I guess is what I’m really asking?

At this point in time it's just conversation with Milano being out. But if we were to get into some weather games, I think it would be better against the run game to have the 3 of them on the field. As it sits now, nickel is probably our best option.