Would you trade AJ Epenesa?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Exactly. So if you do it you probably are not getting a productive young player. You are likely getting a past his sell by date guy who is more name than production at this stage.

Why do say that? Thats if you’re trading a disappointing player.

 

 

 

[NewEra]

I’d much rather try and win a SB this season than trade him

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’d much rather try and win a SB this season than trade him

That’s the whole reason you trade him, to win a Super Bowl.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Why do say that? Thats if you’re trading a disappointing player.

 

 

 

 

Because as you admitted yourself NFL teams do not really trade away productive young players. 

 

Most of the trades at the deadline are for older guys off bad teams having a fire sale. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because as you admitted yourself NFL teams do not really trade away productive young players. 

 

Most of the trades at the deadline are for older guys off bad teams having a fire sale. 

Teams don’t typically have a 4th edge rusher the caliber of Epenesa either. 
 

I also made the thread based on how well Kingsley Jonathan looks. It’s a rare situation that the Bills might be able to find a trade partner and strengthen a position hurt by injuries.

[QCity]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

If Rousseau escapes, I'll literally riot.

 

 

 

What are you gonna do? Stand in the street and shake your fist?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Teams don’t typically have a 4th edge rusher the caliber of Epenesa either. 
 

I also made the thread based on how well Kingsley Jonathan looks. It’s a rare situation that the Bills might be able to find a trade partner and strengthen a position hurt by injuries.

 

Yes but you need ANOTHER team willing to give you a productive young player in return. That is the bit I consider very unlikely. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because as you admitted yourself NFL teams do not really trade away productive young players. 

 

Most of the trades at the deadline are for older guys off bad teams having a fire sale. 

Or a Klondike Bar.  What would YOU do for a Klondike Bar? 🤔
Or Edmunds.

[Dopey]

11 hours ago, Virgil said:

Oh ***** me.  At 3-2, really?   
 

Yes, trade him.  Trade Josh.  Buy real estate on the moon.  

Interest rates are too high right now. 

[SoTier]

14 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Once Von is full go we’ll have Rousseau, Miller, Floyd, Lawson, and Jonathan. Jonathan has shown promise.

 

Epenesa’s value won’t be any higher. He’s playing good football. The other option is extending him to pair with Rousseau in the future.

 

With the injuries Epenesa could bring back a solid player to help at CB or LB.

 

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[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes but you need ANOTHER team willing to give you a productive young player in return. That is the bit I consider very unlikely. 

Right. The other team would have to have depth at a position we need or a player they don’t think they will sign.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Right. The other team would have to have depth at a position we need or a player they don’t think they will sign.

 

And who is young and productive. The middle of the ven diagram is so miniscule as to barely exist. That is my point. So the likelihood is you won't get back better value than you'd get in comp picks if he ends up being paid by someone else in FA.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

16 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

What are you gonna do? Stand in the street and shake your fist?

ill burn a couch on the curb

 

[Low Positive]

What your proposing is the type of trade that MLB and NHL teams make all the time. Like the Sabres have a ton of forward depth so they might trade an asset there for some D. But NFL teams don’t usually make those trades because of how the cap works. And a rebuilding team like the Broncos don’t want your players; they want dem picks. 

[NewEra]

40 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

That’s the whole reason you trade him, to win a Super Bowl.

I don’t think he’s going to get a return that will win us a Super Bowl.  I’d rather keep him so when another DE gets hurt, we aren’t in the same position as last season’s 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And who is young and productive. The middle of the ven diagram is so miniscule as to barely exist. That is my point. So the likelihood is you won't get back better value than you'd get in comp picks if he ends up being paid by someone else in FA.

What if the Bills knew they aren’t signing Epenesa and looked at a team like the Giants.

 

Adoree Jackson and Leonard Williams possibly available. They might want AJ Epenesa. Those 2 players would really help the Bills this year.

 

 

[Low Positive]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What if the Bills knew they aren’t signing Epenesa and looked at a team like the Giants.

 

Adoree Jackson and Leonard Williams possibly available. They might want AJ Epenesa. Those 2 players would really help the Bills this year.

 

 

Do you want to trade Epenesa, a DE who is playing out of his mind right now, for another DE in Leonard Williams? Or are you thinking about a two-for-one trade? Both of those players have pretty large contracts too.

[SCBills]

If I'm the Bills moving forward, the next iteration of this Defense (starting next year) builds around the following:

 

-Rousseau

-AJE

-Oliver

-Bernard

-Benford

 

Hopefully we win it all and send some guys off into the sunset with a Championship, because in order to build around those guys, we may need to make tough decisions on Gabe Davis, Tre White, Micah Hyde, and Jordan Poyer.   I'm not sure any of them are on the team in 2024.   

 

If the choice is between Gabe and AJE, I'm choosing AJE.  He likely won't be as expensive and it's riskier and, most importantly, takes longer, to develop talented DE's.  

 

We can find a Gabe Davis replacement late in RD1 or with a potential trade up in RD2.  It took Rousseau a year or so to develop.  It's taken AJE a couple years.  Boogie was a bust.  

 

If I'm Buffalo, I'm thinking long and hard about an AJ extension.  I'm certainly not trading him when he finally looks to be turning into the guy everyone said slipped to us as a potential steal in the Second Round. 

[starrymessenger]

With our luck we trade him and he breaks out into an experienced, young and in his prime pro bowl edge rusher - because that's the level at which he appears capable of playing. I don't want a Wyatt Teller repeat. Can't imagine trading him unless we know we cannot resign him. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

What if the Bills knew they aren’t signing Epenesa and looked at a team like the Giants.

 

Adoree Jackson and Leonard Williams possibly available. They might want AJ Epenesa. Those 2 players would really help the Bills this year.

 

 

 

Jackson is a slot corner. He doesn't help us unless Taron goes down. He isn't very good outside. Williams is a good player but he is a 3T in our defense and our loss is really at 1T. Ed is playing great at 3T. 

[Dan in Owego]

Better trade him before he get's injured too🤔

[Billl]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Teams don’t typically have a 4th edge rusher the caliber of Epenesa either. 
 

I also made the thread based on how well Kingsley Jonathan looks. It’s a rare situation that the Bills might be able to find a trade partner and strengthen a position hurt by injuries.

Kingsley Jonathan?  The guy who was a 24 year old undrafted free agent two years ago and has 7 career tackles?

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

Kingsley Jonathan?  The guy who was a 24 year old undrafted free agent two years ago and has 7 career tackles?

 

Yeah........Jonathan actually has looked really good.

 

And I see he has a PFF grade over 90 on the season so it's not just the eye of the Bills fan.

 

I'm kind of penciling him in as Epenesa's replacement next season myself.

 

[T master]

HELL NO !! He is going to be one that the Bills need for the future once Von & others decide to retire i say lock him up now for the future of the team .

 

With all those here saying how many draft picks Beane has missed on & now one proves to be a good pick & you ask if you want to trade him seriously ?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Why in the blue hell would you trade him? 

[Billl]

22 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah........Jonathan actually has looked really good.

 

And I see he has a PFF grade over 90 on the season so it's not just the eye of the Bills fan.

 

I'm kind of penciling him in as Epenesa's replacement next season myself.

 

What am I missing?  He's made one special teams tackle and one on a running play on third and 36 for a 7 yard gain.  That's the entirety of his production on the season.

[stevestojan]

In the words of Brandon Beane: I’d trade myself first. 

[Charles Romes]

AJE may already be a top 15 pass rusher entitled to the market value that brings. If I’m AJE,  my negotiating stance is that I was already a break-through 10 sack player in 2022 but that was disguised by the fact that I was limited to 30 PERCENT (!!!) of the snaps due to McDs rotation (he had 6.5 sacks playing 30 percent of the snaps). This may be our first loss of a disruptive player whose stats were artificially diminished due to McDs DL rotation system.  

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

What am I missing?  He's made one special teams tackle and one on a running play on third and 36 for a 7 yard gain.  That's the entirety of his production on the season.

 

He honestly keeps getting good PFF grades.  I don't really notice him out there either, aside from a chase down of Tua 2 weeks ago, but whoever evaluates him over there likes something they keep seeing.  

[SectionC3]

There is a roster management component to this discussion.  If we pay AJE, then can we keep Rousseau?  Is it worth paying AJE if the Bills feel that Jonathan can assume what would be his role next year?  Do we want another run at it with Floyd on a shorter deal before Rousseau gets paid?  And, if we aren’t going to pay AJE, are we better off trying to move him now, getting an advance on the 2024 comp pick, and applying that capital to this year’s roster?  Maybe so, depending on the health of Rousseau/Miller/Floyd/Lawson, the potential return, and the ability to convert that capital to address a position of need.  It’s something that the Bills would be negligent not to explore.  

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

There is a roster management component to this discussion.  If we pay AJE, then can we keep Rousseau?  Is it worth paying AJE if the Bills feel that Jonathan can assume what would be his role next year?  Do we want another run at it with Floyd on a shorter deal before Rousseau gets paid?  And, if we aren’t going to pay AJE, are we better off trying to move him now, getting an advance on the 2024 comp pick, and applying that capital to this year’s roster?  Maybe so, depending on the health of Rousseau/Miller/Floyd/Lawson, the potential return, and the ability to convert that capital to address a position of need.  It’s something that the Bills would be negligent not to explore.  

 

As @SCBills recently pointed out, we should be looking to cycle out of the Poyer, Hyde, White, Morse contracts next year. So we should be able to re-sign AJE, and we have a 5th year tag for Rousseau to kick that can down a ways.

 

IMO, you re-sign all those guys. AJE, Rousseau, and Jonathan. Need to re-sign Jones too.

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

As @SCBills recently pointed out, we should be looking to cycle out of the Poyer, Hyde, White, Morse contracts next year. So we should be able to re-sign AJE, and we have a 5th year tag for Rousseau to kick that can down a ways.

 

IMO, you re-sign all those guys. AJE, Rousseau, and Jonathan. Need to re-sign Jones too.

 

This. 

 

Beginning next year, the defense should be built around Oliver, Rousseau, Epenesa, Bernard, Milano and Benford.  Von is still in the mix for, at least, next year.  We can have discussions about Floyd and Jones.  Bills will likely fill in with some cheap vets who want to play for a contender.  But it's time to cycle out the OG's next season (White, Hyde and Poyer).  

 

On offense, Gabe ain't it at WR2.  He's the Tremaine Edmunds on that side of the ball.   We need to invest a high pick opposite Diggs.  Outside of WR2, we're in very good position over the next few years on that side of the ball.  

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by SCBills

[boyst]

Need to restructure Miller. If he don't like it let him go meddle with another teams business. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

Kingsley Jonathan?  The guy who was a 24 year old undrafted free agent two years ago and has 7 career tackles?

 

The kid has talent. Rare explosion. He is still raw, but you can see the improvement on the field compared to his limited snaps last year. He is very much someone who could slip into a rotational end role. 

1 hour ago, Billl said:

What am I missing?  He's made one special teams tackle and one on a running play on third and 36 for a 7 yard gain.  That's the entirety of his production on the season.

 

He is averaging a staggeringly good pass rush win rate of almost 20%. Now he is being used primarily in favourable rush situations so likely that is inflated somewhat and as a full time 2nd string DE rather than the 5th guy who they only use to rush the passer it would even out somewhat but even so it is very high. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Releasing Von Miller doesn’t do anything for the cap unfortunately. 

[Your Brown Eye]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

What am I missing?  He's made one special teams tackle and one on a running play on third and 36 for a 7 yard gain.  That's the entirety of his production on the season.

 

Because the moment any player becomes good or starts to look like they have potential, Bills fans want to trade them.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

32 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

AJE may already be a top 15 pass rusher entitled to the market value that brings. If I’m AJE,  my negotiating stance is that I was already a break-through 10 sack player in 2022 but that was disguised by the fact that I was limited to 30 PERCENT (!!!) of the snaps due to McDs rotation (he had 6.5 sacks playing 30 percent of the snaps). This may be our first loss of a disruptive player whose stats were artificially diminished due to McDs DL rotation system.  

 

Hmm. His usage was limited mainly by the fact he was a backup through his own failings early in his career here. But there is no doubt somewhere down the stretch last year the light came on for AJE. 4 of his 6.5 sacks and 8 of his 14 pressures in 2022 came in his final 7 games and he has carried that form on so far this year. The underlying stats tell a similar story. His pass rush win rate was pedestrian the first half of last year then took a jump. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

16 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Depends on how you look at the rest of the season for the bills.

 

Milano was so good and so important to the bills that's why I'd say wr2 is more important for this season.

 

There's such few, and maybe no LBs in the NFL that could be traded for, come in, learn the system and play like Milano. 

 

CB is a need, but mcd has consistently shown he's comfortable with his in house guys, and they just spent capitol on Elam.

 

Now for the rest of the season I'd argue the path for the bills to win a SB with this many bad injuries on defense is for the fast ball to get faster, not to bandaid the defense. Davis has had a solid stat line this season, but his route tree is very limited, his bad drops continue, and he hasn't been a game changer since the chiefs playoff game. He feasts on defenses when they have to pay attention to diggs.

 

A true WR2 or WR1B that draws attention from diggs, Knox, Kincaid, davis, would open up alot of doors for Allen. If the bills could cause a shoot out with other elite teams, the bills still have elite pass rushers that can get home. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah but the same problem would exist if bringing a new WR.  To me it's even worse as both the QB and the WR need to learn from each other and that takes time and practice which today's NFLPA rules doesn't allow for much of that.  At this point in season, I'd think they'd be further ahead in making the fast ball, faster by using more Kincaid, Harty, Shakir, and Sherfield.  If you're going for a big trade I'd rather see them go for a guy like a Surtan at CB

[Warriorspikes51]

No. He may have finally become a consistent difference maker 

[frostbitmic]

No ... Epenesa is still young and ascending as a player, I'd look to extend him.

 

If it was possible to trade Von and his contract, I think that would be more beneficial to the team.