Kaiir Elam is a liability any time he is on the field

[JerseyBills]

In his defense,  he was left 1v1 vs Ridley aka Stef Diggs Lite

[Eastport bills]

Here’s the question, who is coaching this man?Does he improve from one game to another? Does he improve technique from one season to another? He’s got talent or they wouldn’t have picked him 1st round.

[Pirate Angel]

Can someone explain why Dane wasn't on Ridley??? Dane was on the active roster making him higher in the depth chart...so why put Elam on the #one.  Zay Jones seems like a simpler task, who also got banged up during the game. Not seeing how you don't activate someone all year, then when you have to you have him one on one with that kind of receiver. 

[JerseyBills]

23 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

In his defense,  he was left 1v1 vs Ridley aka Stef Diggs Lite

Feel like he was trying to copy AJ Terrel with ATL the week before and Elam failed 

[BananaB]

2 minutes ago, Pirate Angel said:

Can someone explain why Dane wasn't on Ridley??? Dane was on the active roster making him higher in the depth chart...so why put Elam on the #one.  Zay Jones seems like a simpler task, who also got banged up during the game. Not seeing how you don't activate someone all year, then when you have to you have him one on one with that kind of receiver. 

No one can. I’ve mentioned it already. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

This is worse than I thought. 
 

https://x.com/kevinmassare/status/1711503165441401088?s=46&t=uEztWLHQe9squs0mVCzJCQ

[gonzo1105]

17 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Here’s the question, who is coaching this man?Does he improve from one game to another? Does he improve technique from one season to another? He’s got talent or they wouldn’t have picked him 1st round.

All coaches at all levels teach the same drills and techniques with few exceptions. 
 

Coaches are only as good as the players they are coaching. A wise older coach told me it’s amazing how great of coaches we are to everyone when we are winning championships. It’s also equally amazing how bad of coaches we become when we aren’t. We teach the same stuff year after year the only thing that changes is the ability of the player 

[Eastport bills]

35 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

All coaches at all levels teach the same drills and techniques with few exceptions. 
 

Coaches are only as good as the players they are coaching. A wise older coach told me it’s amazing how great of coaches we are to everyone when we are winning championships. It’s also equally amazing how bad of coaches we become when we aren’t. We teach the same stuff year after year the only thing that changes is the ability of the player 

So are you saying Elam should be a healthy scratch or just live with him getting lit up like a Christmas tree. It seems like he’s a better option than Josh Norman, who was good with Washington, 10 years ago.

[gonzo1105]

2 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

So are you saying Elam should be a healthy scratch or just live with him getting lit up like a Christmas tree. It seems like he’s a better option than Josh Norman, who was good with Washington, 10 years ago.

It’s a hard choice my opinion is trade him while he still has some value but with the CB injuries you can’t really do that now. If they have no faith in him then you can’t play him. I guess you could hope the light turns on but this is a team trying to win a SB this year. 
 

I’d probably make a call to Carolina(I know, I know) for Donte Jackson to see if he’s available or make a minor trade for CB depth behind Benford and Jackson so Elam doesn’t have to be relied upon 

[Success]

59 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

This is worse than I thought. 
 

https://x.com/kevinmassare/status/1711503165441401088?s=46&t=uEztWLHQe9squs0mVCzJCQ

 

It was rough.  I tried to watch him as much as I could, hoping for the best - and it just looked like he was really struggling in coverage the whole day.

 

We'll have to see how it goes.  I want to give some benefit of the doubt to his 1st big game being the London game, and jet lag was an issue for the whole team (imo).  From what I could tell, he played a lot better when he had his chances last year.  

[DasNootz]

1 hour ago, Pirate Angel said:

Can someone explain why Dane wasn't on Ridley??? Dane was on the active roster making him higher in the depth chart...so why put Elam on the #one.  Zay Jones seems like a simpler task, who also got banged up during the game. Not seeing how you don't activate someone all year, then when you have to you have him one on one with that kind of receiver. 

I may be Mis-remembering, and I haven’t rewatched the game.  I thought Dane was getting picked on early.  They may have moved Elam over hoping he would do better vs Ridley.  Unfortunately he didn’t. 

[Eastport bills]

3 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

It’s a hard choice my opinion is trade him while he still has some value but with the CB injuries you can’t really do that now. If they have no faith in him then you can’t play him. I guess you could hope the light turns on but this is a team trying to win a SB this year. 
 

I’d probably make a call to Carolina(I know, I know) for Donte Jackson to see if he’s available or make a minor trade for CB depth behind Benford and Jackson so Elam doesn’t have to be relied upon 

Nice post, the responsibility for replacing starters is in the GMs per view. Why do I see KC and SF making bold moves when they lose starters.? Give me one in season acquisition Beane has made that made a difference. He brings in guys like Beasley or Norman who comes cheap because they’re sitting around unsigned.

[Matt_In_NH]

supposedly last year his numbers were good....I know it looks bad but we dont have a lot of choice other than see how this plays out.  You cannot waive him due to cap ramifications.   If he truly is just a dead bust I guess you have to wait for him to have a hang nail and IR him.

21 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

It’s a hard choice my opinion is trade him while he still has some value but with the CB injuries you can’t really do that now. If they have no faith in him then you can’t play him. I guess you could hope the light turns on but this is a team trying to win a SB this year. 
 

I’d probably make a call to Carolina(I know, I know) for Donte Jackson to see if he’s available or make a minor trade for CB depth behind Benford and Jackson so Elam doesn’t have to be relied upon 

Here are the cap results of a post 6/1 trade...they would save on the cap this year which could free up money for the new guy, whoever that is...the trick is finding someone to take him.

 

2023 Dead Cap: $1,784,2382024 Dead Cap: $3,568,4762023 Cap Savings: $1,327,310

 

Source

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/kaiir-elam-76877/#:~:text=Kaiir Elam signed a 4,dead cap value of %2411%2C201%2C572.

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Matt_In_NH

[HoofHearted]

On 10/9/2023 at 5:48 PM, BananaB said:

No one can. I’ve mentioned it already. 

Because our defense doesn't match receivers - we play with a field corner and a boundary corner regardless of where receivers go. This has been talked about ad nauseam around here.

[HoofHearted]

On 10/9/2023 at 8:02 AM, Big Turk said:

Not a great look that the  Bills put Ja'Marcus Ingram in there instead of Elam late in the game and McD when asked if Elam was hurt said "no, we just wanted to get a look a t some other players."  

 

Which in coach speak says "He was sucking so bad that we would rather have a UFA practice squad player in there instead of our 1st round pick from last year."

 

Ingram promptly missed an easy tackle in the  hole on Etienne which allowed him to score on that 35 yard run.

Elam struggled in man coverage. So much so they moved him to the field for a series before they pulled him. He actually looked at his best when playing press 2. The tapes not as bad as the stat-line. I'd have to go back to the film and track the stats, but I'm almost positive that stat-line is crediting him with at least one reception that wasn't his fault.

[ShakAttack]

Remember when the Bills defense looked really good for the first 5 or 6 weeks of last season?  

 

That was pretty much the same defense we will see on Sunday, minus Matt Milano and Daquan, but plus Leonard Floyd, plus Hyde/Poyer (whether you're a fan of the 2023 versions or not), an improved Epenesa, Ed Oliver playing his best ball and an upgrade at LB from Edmunds to Bernard (surprise!).

 

And Kaiir Elam made a few appearances and didn't look bad at all when he did.  So maybe, as far as Elam goes, look at where he succeeded last year and try to build on that?

 

Tre White coming back to form was really just a bonus because we had been living without him.  Dane Jackson & Benford were the starters for the most part, and heck, Benford ended up getting hurt too.

 

Ya know, I actually made myself feel a little bit better coming to this realization.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

On 10/9/2023 at 6:46 PM, Pirate Angel said:

Can someone explain why Dane wasn't on Ridley??? Dane was on the active roster making him higher in the depth chart...so why put Elam on the #one.  Zay Jones seems like a simpler task, who also got banged up during the game. Not seeing how you don't activate someone all year, then when you have to you have him one on one with that kind of receiver. 

Most cornerbacks are left or right CB... They don't have the ability to move all over the field... Tre was our only corner who would move from the left to right

 

The bills keep their corners on static positions...  so the matchup is based 

 

95% of corners don't follow people around the field... There's like six corners who follow people 

 

Diggs is routinely followed by the other team's number two because we put him on the opposite side of the field... it's scheming 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Dr.Sack]

On 10/9/2023 at 3:22 PM, BananaB said:

I just keep scratching my head why Jackson wasn’t on Ridley. No excuses for Elams play but this coaching staff obviously has more trust in Jackson, why did he get the easier assignment.

So as to insulate Jackson from criticism. Of course Elam is the fall guy. 

[Solomon Grundy]

On 10/9/2023 at 6:22 PM, BananaB said:

I just keep scratching my head why Jackson wasn’t on Ridley. No excuses for Elams play but this coaching staff obviously has more trust in Jackson, why did he get the easier assignment.

Because he was getting beat too. Why are people killing Elam's play? He hasn't played ANY meaningful football since the preseason. I think you will see a better result with more meaningful reps. I don't expect a 3pt shooter who never plays to come off the bench and shoot 10 for 10.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Solomon Grundy

[Don Otreply]

On 10/8/2023 at 1:04 PM, Rc2catch said:

I never claimed anything. I said I didn’t view it that way. 
But please continue on your crusade. I’ll stay out of it. 

It’s that dizzying intellect, and heights most only dream of attaining…, 

[QCity]

40 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Why are people killing Elam's play? He hasn't played ANY meaningful football since the preseason. I think you will see a better result with more meaningful reps. I don't expect a 3pt shooter who never plays to come off the bench and shoot 10 for 10.

 

I don't expect him to shoot 0 for 10 either, but here we are.

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by QCity

[Solomon Grundy]

10 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

I don't expect him to shoot 0 for 10 either, but here we are.

 

 

 

You apparently don't watch many Knicks game and Evan Fournier 😎

[dave mcbride]

On 10/9/2023 at 6:50 PM, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

This is worse than I thought. 
 

https://x.com/kevinmassare/status/1711503165441401088?s=46&t=uEztWLHQe9squs0mVCzJCQ

Joe B in The Athletic: 

 

Buscaglia: The concern probably should have started in his rookie training camp when, after getting a full share of starter’s snaps, he allowed Benford to get into the competition and then ahead of him. We know how it all unfolded in 2022 from there. But this year has gone a bit worse. Tim mentioned the healthy scratches, and from my perspective watching the film, Elam was the worst Bills player on the field Sunday by a healthy margin. He was a distant fourth on the cornerback depth chart to begin the year, and now he’s in jeopardy of remaining fourth if Ja’Marcus Ingram has earned more trust of the coaching staff to be where he’s supposed to be at all times. In the spring, I mentioned Elam as someone the Bills could consider moving before the regular season to try to capitalize on value if he didn’t lock down the starting gig. Now, I wouldn’t rule out them looking at Elam as a trade chip to improve a position at the trade deadline. In the interim, he may get one or two more chances, and it’s paramount that he takes advantage.

 

https://theathletic.com/4957403/2023/10/12/buffalo-bills-new-york-giants-week-6/

[BuffaloBillyG]

I've said all week that the time to see what Elam can possibly be is right now. In the next 2 weeks there is no long flight to London. There is no WR the level of Ridley/Kirk on the Giants or Patriots. He's gotten he feet wet so to speak with some game action this year. I would play him as many snaps as possible in these next 2 games and hopefully he can build some confidence before facing Evans/Godwin in 3 weeks.

 

The BEST case scenario for the Bills is that in the next 14 days the light goes on and he balls out. Even if he plays average or slightly below...let him take some lumps and learn so he's peaking around the playoffs. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Joe B in The Athletic: 

 

Buscaglia: The concern probably should have started in his rookie training camp when, after getting a full share of starter’s snaps, he allowed Benford to get into the competition and then ahead of him. We know how it all unfolded in 2022 from there. But this year has gone a bit worse. Tim mentioned the healthy scratches, and from my perspective watching the film, Elam was the worst Bills player on the field Sunday by a healthy margin. He was a distant fourth on the cornerback depth chart to begin the year, and now he’s in jeopardy of remaining fourth if Ja’Marcus Ingram has earned more trust of the coaching staff to be where he’s supposed to be at all times. In the spring, I mentioned Elam as someone the Bills could consider moving before the regular season to try to capitalize on value if he didn’t lock down the starting gig. Now, I wouldn’t rule out them looking at Elam as a trade chip to improve a position at the trade deadline. In the interim, he may get one or two more chances, and it’s paramount that he takes advantage.

 

https://theathletic.com/4957403/2023/10/12/buffalo-bills-new-york-giants-week-6/

 

 

I've seen CB's go from being terrible for multiple seasons to becoming good starters enough times......and he's in a great environment to keep him on point............so I am not counting Elam out just yet, myself.

[BillsShredder83]

31 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I've seen CB's go from being terrible for multiple seasons to becoming good starters enough times......and he's in a great environment to keep him on point............so I am not counting Elam out just yet, myself.

yeah i just cant concede that this guy went to s***, out of nowhere fast. he needs some time out there. if he can play tread water or just not sink like a rock, he wont be the reason we win or lose. london was basically the worst imagineable spot to start off the bench, whole team looked jetlagged, he hasnt dressed, our defense looked like theyd fought in Okinawa by half time, Ridley has looked great.  Im not excusing him, just saying im not comfortable evaluating his career off this one game that was cursed from start... get some on the fly experience and we can draw better conclusions over the next few weeks (barring a total implosion by him)

[Paul Costa]

Over the next 7 weeks up till our week 13 bye the Bills will face Evans & Godwin in week 8. Chase, Higgins & Boyd week 9. Sutton & Juedy week 10. Wilson week 11. And Brown & Smith in week 12. And only the Eagles have an above average TE. That to me is a schedule where our CB’s should be able to have decent success against. The next two weeks hopefully will give our Defense a chance to get their legs back under them to continue to play at a high level overall. 

[Spiderweb]

On 10/8/2023 at 1:02 PM, Success said:

More of a mixed bag from him today.  He had some nice tackles and jams at the line. But his coverage wasn't good.

 

He just isnt a good zone CB, and that was known when he was drafted. Good in man albeit a bit grabby from time to time. Beane is guilty of trying to force a square peg into a round whole. 

[HoofHearted]

9 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Joe B in The Athletic: 

 

Buscaglia: The concern probably should have started in his rookie training camp when, after getting a full share of starter’s snaps, he allowed Benford to get into the competition and then ahead of him. We know how it all unfolded in 2022 from there. But this year has gone a bit worse. Tim mentioned the healthy scratches, and from my perspective watching the film, Elam was the worst Bills player on the field Sunday by a healthy margin. He was a distant fourth on the cornerback depth chart to begin the year, and now he’s in jeopardy of remaining fourth if Ja’Marcus Ingram has earned more trust of the coaching staff to be where he’s supposed to be at all times. In the spring, I mentioned Elam as someone the Bills could consider moving before the regular season to try to capitalize on value if he didn’t lock down the starting gig. Now, I wouldn’t rule out them looking at Elam as a trade chip to improve a position at the trade deadline. In the interim, he may get one or two more chances, and it’s paramount that he takes advantage.

 

https://theathletic.com/4957403/2023/10/12/buffalo-bills-new-york-giants-week-6/

Don’t agree with his take here. Thought Poyer played equally as bad if not worse. Several times he gave up big plays in the pass game on deep overs that he had to come out of the roof to cover.

 

On the bright side Elam looked really good in his run support fits, but did miss two tackles at the LoS.

[SoonerBillsFan]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I've seen CB's go from being terrible for multiple seasons to becoming good starters enough times......and he's in a great environment to keep him on point............so I am not counting Elam out just yet, myself.

I'm sorry bado... but the kid has been trash from day 1.  Sometimes teams make bad picks amd players don't pan out, Elam is a bad pick.

[BBFL]

7 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I'm sorry bado... but the kid has been trash from day 1.  Sometimes teams make bad picks amd players don't pan out, Elam is a bad pick.

Trash? Bit of an extreme there. Hasn’t exactly been great or a home-run pick but he’s had moments of decency. 

[Success]

I think London was an anomaly.

 

He played well last season.  He has talent.  They need to develop him this season without Tre out there, so at minimum he is very good depth. 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

11 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I'm sorry bado... but the kid has been trash from day 1.  Sometimes teams make bad picks amd players don't pan out, Elam is a bad pick.

 

 

As someone who was against drafting another CB in round 1 for McD's system........you don't need to apologize to me.......Christian Benford is basically proving my point that you can get similar production at CB in this system much later in the draft(Benford hasn't been that much better, contrary to some opinions).

 

But Elam hasn't been trash from day 1.    He's made some big plays.    Reminds me a bit of how Xavien Howard started out.   You can see the talent but Elam is a good example of why you don't use first round picks on players who don't naturally fit your system.

[whorlnut]

9 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I've said all week that the time to see what Elam can possibly be is right now. In the next 2 weeks there is no long flight to London. There is no WR the level of Ridley/Kirk on the Giants or Patriots. He's gotten he feet wet so to speak with some game action this year. I would play him as many snaps as possible in these next 2 games and hopefully he can build some confidence before facing Evans/Godwin in 3 weeks.

 

The BEST case scenario for the Bills is that in the next 14 days the light goes on and he balls out. Even if he plays average or slightly below...let him take some lumps and learn so he's peaking around the playoffs. 

Sounds like a lot of excuses for a former first round pick that has been a complete flop to this point. It’s ok to admit he sucks. He’s had plenty of opportunity. 

[Billl]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

But Elam hasn't been trash from day 1.    He's made some big plays.    Reminds me a bit of how Xavien Howard started out.   You can see the talent but Elam is a good example of why you don't use first round picks on players who don't naturally fit your system.

Elam wasn’t a bad pick because of the system.  He was a bad pick because he sucks at football.  I liked him as a prospect, but he’s been the definition of a bust.

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

Elam wasn’t a bad pick because of the system.  He was a bad pick because he sucks at football.  I liked him as a prospect, but he’s been the definition of a bust.

Totally agree that he sucks. It was a terrible pick. Didn’t fit the system was only part of the problem. The fact that he duped McD and Beane with his stupid notebook really irritates me. 

[Bobby Hooks]

There’s a lot going on in here. He seemed pretty good as a rookie. He had some bad plays, but he also had some very good ones. I’ve liked Benford from the jump. But I didn’t see anything from Elam that made me think he couldn’t become a serviceable starter. 
 

This started when Mcd took the reins, I’m not saying Mcd is doing anything wrong, I like his D very much. But sometimes coaching styles and players don’t jive. That’s what I’m seeing here, imo. Whatever the reason Frazier had him looking like a promising rookie. Under Mcd he’s looking like the opposite. Maybe a swap of young cb’s not living up to their potential at the trade deadline? Worked with Hughes. 

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

There’s a lot going on in here. He seemed pretty good as a rookie. He had some bad plays, but he also had some very good ones. I’ve liked Benford from the jump. But I didn’t see anything from Elam that made me think he couldn’t become a serviceable starter. 
 

This started when Mcd took the reins, I’m not saying Mcd is doing anything wrong, I like his D very much. But sometimes coaching styles and players don’t jive. That’s what I’m seeing here, imo. Whatever the reason Frazier had him looking like a promising rookie. Under Mcd he’s looking like the opposite. Maybe a swap of young cb’s not living up to their potential at the trade deadline? Worked with Hughes. 

This crap that “he looked pretty good as a rookie” needs to stop. It’s an old narrative and just has to go away. If he was so good, then the coaches would believe in him. I trust them more than message board gm’s that cry about hOw WelL hE pLaYeD aS a rOoKiE. It’s a horrendous excuse for a crappy football player.

[Low Positive]

If Beane was fooled by Elam, so was the rest of the NFL world. I know people hate mock drafts, and they are useless as predictors of actual picks. But they are useful in looking back on the consensus of the football world on a player leading into a draft. Every mock that I can find for the 2022 draft had Elam as a first-rounder, and all but one had him going before the Bills pick. Sometimes, a player does not live up to their potential. I could create a long list of these players, but they sting a lot more when that happens to your favorite team. 

 

What we know about Beane's drafting is that he focuses a lot on physical traits over college performance. Sometimes that works (Josh Allen, Groot) and sometimes that doesn't (Elam, Cody Ford, and perhaps Spencer Brown). I actually think that the lack of big-time winners in high school and college on this team is holding them back at crunch time in the playoffs, but every time I state this on here I get a lot of red exes and throwup emojis. For example, Josh has never won a championship, and I don't think Diggs has either. The Bengals are loaded with guys who won in college. The game is never too big for Joe Burrow because he played in the Ohio High School Championship Game and in the CFB Playoff Championship game. Higgins won at Clemson. Chase, of course, won at LSU with Burrow. Mahomes won a state championship in Texas, which was probably the biggest game in his life until he played in the Super Bowl. But then again, neither Brady nor Kelse won anything in high school or college so what do I know?

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

If Beane was fooled by Elam, so was the rest of the NFL world. I know people hate mock drafts, and they are useless as predictors of actual picks. But they are useful in looking back on the consensus of the football world on a player leading into a draft. Every mock that I can find for the 2022 draft had Elam as a first-rounder, and all but one had him going before the Bills pick. Sometimes, a player does not live up to their potential. I could create a long list of these players, but they sting a lot more when that happens to your favorite team. 

 

What we know about Beane's drafting is that he focuses a lot on physical traits over college performance. Sometimes that works (Josh Allen, Groot) and sometimes that doesn't (Elam, Cody Ford, and perhaps Spencer Brown). I actually think that the lack of big-time winners in high school and college on this team is holding them back at crunch time in the playoffs, but every time I state this on here I get a lot of red exes and throwup emojis. For example, Josh has never won a championship, and I don't think Diggs has either. The Bengals are loaded with guys who won in college. The game is never too big for Joe Burrow because he played in the Ohio High School Championship Game and in the CFB Playoff Championship game. Higgins won at Clemson. Chase, of course, won at LSU with Burrow. Mahomes won a state championship in Texas, which was probably the biggest game in his life until he played in the Super Bowl. But then again, neither Brady nor Kelse won anything in high school or college so what do I know?

This is an excuse too. Was he graded as a first rounder?  Maybe. Did he fit another team’s press man scheme?  Yeah. Did he fit out zone scheme?  Nope. That’s the difference. Not all first rounders are the same. He would have been decent in a scheme that fits his strengths. He just doesn’t fit ours. Beane def need to wear that. He panicked after McDuffie was drafted (imo) and now we are in this spot.