It ain't the coaches.

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, LarryMadman said:

I think Josh tries to do too much because the play design and coaching are lacking. He thinks he can make up for it with his talent and he can't then he gets frustrated and then makes bad decisions and it snowballs from there. 

 

^^^

 

Boom.   

[McBean]

1 hour ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I think after 13 seconds we should have kept Dabol and moved on from McDermott JUST because of Allen.  Hire Jim Schwartz and let him install a blitzing killer Defense and I think we would be better off.

 

I love Sean, but I can't thank him enough for what he has done, and he 100% was the right guy to right this Titanic franchise version. BUT, if you keep Allen as your QB you gotta have a very strong personality that keeps his butt on target. McDermott and Definitely Dorsey isn't that.

Only been saying this for 3 years but carry on please.

 

Ship has sailed. 13 seconds…won’t recover from it.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, nedboy7 said:

Can’t coach ***** out of a brain. 

 

yahtzee

 

[UKBillFan]

5 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I mean that’s hard to say…the jets entire shtick last night was baiting josh into running lanes that looked available then they collapsed extremely quickly 

Are we seriously entertaining Kyle Allen not being terrible? Lol. Criticize josh all you want but there is no way Kyle Allen with no running game is going to have any amount of success 

 

It's more a case of making an example of Josh - you're not listening so sit down and think on it - rather than expecting anything good out of Kyle, to be honest.

 

The question is how would Josh deal with public humiliation from the coaching team? Will it help him reset or just make him more nervous and desperate? Again, the coaches have to make the right choice.

[boyst]

22 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

I saw a ***** QB. Real ***** for brains.  Blame the coach all you want. 

so whats your solution besides bitching?

 

you don't pull him out of the starting lineup. you don't cut or trade him. you coach him. you coach the team.

 

you ride his ass if you need, also. daboll went after him several times and really got josh pissed. regardless, it's going to take something - and i am not sure McChump has the answer. short of just let Josh figure it out - i don't know what they'll do. and that's probably best. let josh learn the hard way. 

19 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

ready… 

 

We used to see a great one. 
 

the longer he’s been with Dorsey the less we see that. 
 

think there’s possibly any correlation to how he’s being coached?

i'm not ready to give up on Dorsey. i double down every time and it's getting ridiculous. but i saw dorsey bring the best out of Cam Newton who many found uncoachable. Allen isn't Newton but i have faith that dorsey can still do something.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

 

It's more a case of making an example of Josh - you're not listening so sit down and think on it - rather than expecting anything good out of Kyle, to be honest.

 

The question is how would Josh deal with public humiliation from the coaching team? Will it help him reset or just make him more nervous and desperate? Again, the coaches have to make the right choice.

You think public humiliation will help him mentally? Haha it’s all kind of moot because there’s a 0% chance they do this 

[BernieBill]

Coaching is definitely a factor in the team's repeated ugly offensive performances.  Sean McDermott brings ZERO to the table offensively and Ken Dorsey simply doesn't know how to coordinate this offense.  The McDermott regime should have ended with 13 Seconds ... it didn't end and we're all here watching an entire organization waste Josh Allen's talent.  The Bills were worse last year than the year before and are worse this year than last year ... the team's a mess, period.

[Heels20X6]

How good do you think Allen would be if Andy Reid was his coach?
 

There’s your answer. 

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It’s partly the coaches… McD does nothing for Josh and apparently Josh needs a veteran offensive guy to talk him off the ledge and get his head right… they have newbie Dorsey and Joe Brady, but hey, at least both were in Carolina!

im honestly coming around to a missing link that can settle the offense between drives 

 

With McD now calling plays and Dorsey upstairs I think there’s some gap in sideline presence. I think it was there before the McD transition but now starting to really crystallize this opinion 

5 minutes ago, boyst said:

so whats your solution besides bitching?

 

you don't pull him out of the starting lineup. you don't cut or trade him. you coach him. you coach the team.

 

you ride his ass if you need, also. daboll went after him several times and really got josh pissed. regardless, it's going to take something - and i am not sure McChump has the answer. short of just let Josh figure it out - i don't know what they'll do. and that's probably best. let josh learn the hard way. 

i'm not ready to give up on Dorsey. i double down every time and it's getting ridiculous. but i saw dorsey bring the best out of Cam Newton who many found uncoachable. Allen isn't Newton but i have faith that dorsey can still do something.

I don’t think Dorsey is worthless. In fact he got great stuff out of Allen. 
 

as a qb coach for both guys though.

 

Is losing Dorsey on the sideline with the qb a loss we havent considered in his promotion? Is Brady not giving him that support as well? 

[boyst]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

They’ll just get more conservative which ain’t guna win them jack *****…. McD is the wrong coach. They need a great offensive mind coaching Allen. 

i've been saying mcd is the wrong coach since 13 seconds and been getting blasted by it.

 

but, people are coming along to it.

 

 

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It's the QB. Sacred cow around here, I know, but Josh Allen has been in the league long enough to know:

 

1) you can't be late over the middle

 

2) you shouldn't throw into triple coverage

 

3) that sometimes a sack and punting the ball away isn't a bad thing.

 

And yet he continues to make those mistakes. Tell me, at what point should the finger of responsibility be pointed at the QB who just crapped his pants on national TV? You can lead a horse to water, but if it does not drink, it's on the horse.

Color me surprised. Pleasantly surprised at this thread. You were pretty adamant that I check my math, when I commented on Josh's play early on. See below. Good to see some people can actually admit when Josh is the problem. Kudos. 

 

[nedboy7]

Having poor coaching and having an idiot for a QB are not mutually exclusive. Last night imo it was the low IQ QB that was the problem.  He is making this team painful to watch. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by nedboy7

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Dopey said:

Color me surprised. Pleasantly surprised at this thread. You were pretty adamant that I check my math, when I commented on Josh's play early on. See below. Good to see some people can actually admit when Josh is the problem. Kudos. 

 

 

I'll say it again, he was doing the right thing and generally playing well in the first half.

 

Then he ***** himself.

 

That's the problem with Josh. He ***** himself. Often.

 

[boyst]

if McChump is some great coach for defense why isn't he seeing the game film and seeing what we are doing wrong on offense to tell us how to fix it? is he watching our tape on offense?

 

he was a great culture changing coach but he's not a championship coach.

[SWATeam]

14 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

I think Josh tries to do too much because the play design and coaching are lacking. He thinks he can make up for it with his talent and he can't then he gets frustrated and then makes bad decisions and it snowballs from there. 

Nope, that just your bias.  Film tells a different story.  Teams know how to defend josh-two high shell taking away the deep stuff and he's unwilling to be patient enough to take what is there within the structure of the offense.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, SWATeam said:

Nope, that just your bias.  Film tells a different story.  Teams know how to defend josh-two high shell taking away the deep stuff and he's unwilling to be patient enough to take what is there within the structure of the offense.

 

Correct. He lacks the ability to be patient.

 

 

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

if McChump is some great coach for defense why isn't he seeing the game film and seeing what we are doing wrong on offense to tell us how to fix it? is he watching our tape on offense?

 

he was a great culture changing coach but he's not a championship coach.

I think everyone knows how to fix it but Hollywood seem unwilling.  So what can you do?

[Allen2Moulds]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

It's the QB. Sacred cow around here, I know, but Josh Allen has been in the league long enough to know:

 

1) you can't be late over the middle

 

2) you shouldn't throw into triple coverage

 

3) that sometimes a sack and punting the ball away isn't a bad thing.

 

And yet he continues to make those mistakes. Tell me, at what point should the finger of responsibility be pointed at the QB who just crapped his pants on national TV? You can lead a horse to water, but if it does not drink, it's on the horse.

Both can be true. Josh Allen's worst game yet, and Dorsey is a bad OC.

[PayDaBill$]

Going back wk 16 of last yr, JA’s turnovers are a big issue, he committed turnovers in 6 consecutive games - JA has 9

interceptions & 7 fumbles and 3  lost - 12 turnovers 2 per game. You’re not going to be competitive while this one s still an issue. Mahomes has a total of 12 turnovers in 17 regular season games last season.

JA has regressed.  It seemed to start around the GB game last year.  His maturity level seems to have regressed as well.

 

This franchise has more than a few issues to deal with, coaches, personnel & leadership, chemistry.  It’ll go as JA goes but he can’t do it all by himself. He doesn’t seem to be build to shoulder the load.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by PayDaBill$

[BBFL]

You’re right for the most part for last year and, by the looks of it, this year too. This team lives and dies at the hand of Josh. Has been since he came into his own year 3…. Difference was the level of coaching our previous offensive coordinator worked with… Guy learned under the most successful NFL coach in todays game and the most successful college coach in todays game. Belly and Saban.

Dorsey? Can’t say the same. He was pulled from Carolina with the rest of McD’s vision. I want him to work but I’m just not seeing it. Josh is a 4000/25TD QB regardless of who is dialing up plays. He’s just that talented. 
 

Team needs to turn the direction like they did with Frazier at the end of this season and hire someone with actually quality in the history of offenses they have coached and built… We know Terry would be willing to pay.
 

Someone on this board mentioned yesterday about the problem being Josh seeing Ken as a peer because he was “his choice”. Makes a little sense that the relationship is a little loose and free. 
 

We’ve heard Josh and coaches be accountable with the “need to do better etc etc”. Gonna have to see better now. A few of the plays last night were not Josh… 13 seconds was the worst in every facet that happened to this team… For Josh’s competitive ego scoring that much in a short span of time against a heated rival and the cream of the NFL… Also, for as we know, the team as a whole; that was our hypothetical Super Bowl. 
 

Anyone who has played sports competitively knows you can get a hangover when expectations are not met… Expectations are not being met. 
 

Still believe in our guy under center.  Need to see better from him though… Last night was soul destroying for SB aspirations. 

[BBFL]

17 minutes ago, boyst said:

so whats your solution besides bitching?

 

you don't pull him out of the starting lineup. you don't cut or trade him. you coach him. you coach the team.

 

you ride his ass if you need, also. daboll went after him several times and really got josh pissed. regardless, it's going to take something - and i am not sure McChump has the answer. short of just let Josh figure it out - i don't know what they'll do. and that's probably best. let josh learn the hard way. 

i'm not ready to give up on Dorsey. i double down every time and it's getting ridiculous. but i saw dorsey bring the best out of Cam Newton who many found uncoachable. Allen isn't Newton but i have faith that dorsey can still do something.

 

Nah. Cam Newton was Cam Newton. He had one legit season as an all around QB. Dorsey isn’t it brother. Anyone with a basic concept of play calling can have a 4000+ / 25TD  QB when you got the talent Josh has….

[Chicken Boo]

Here's the rub.

 

McDermott was just given a contract extension 3 months ago that a majority of you praised. 

 

I have ZERO confidence in Beane or Pegula making any major changes before 2027, so buckle up.  

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, dorquemada said:

 

Allen is a tremendous disappointment.  I guess we'll have to crank up the Excuse Generator and establish some kind of down year narrative. I'll start:

 

It's really hard to tell the Jets players and Bills players apart!

 

New girlfriend keeps him up late

 

Elbow still hurt

 

Feel free to add

hollywood Josh was more focused on making commercials and dating European super models then working on his game

1 minute ago, Chicken Boo said:

Here's the rub.

 

McDermott was just given a contract extension 3 months ago that a majority of you praised. 

 

I have ZERO confidence in Beane or Pegula making any major changes before 2027, so buckle up.  

I share this fear

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

I thought that was what Brady was for? 

and I’m questioning if that is working. 
 

Unfair? 
 

is it possible Dorsey was a very good qb coach and just an ok coordinator so promoting him resulted in a step back in both roles and our QB struggling to keep balance? 

[VaMilBill]

2 hours ago, dorquemada said:

 

Allen is a tremendous disappointment.  I guess we'll have to crank up the Excuse Generator and establish some kind of down year narrative. I'll start:

 

It's really hard to tell the Jets players and Bills players apart!

 

New girlfriend keeps him up late

 

Elbow still hurt

 

Feel free to add

Elite QBs don’t have down years. The have years better than others, but not mediocre ones. We will see if josh and Ken can turn this around. With Dorsey running the offensive, I doubt it improves much 

[Rocbillsfan1]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

The problem is:

 

Other than benching Allen, how do you hold him accountable?

 

What coach in the NFL is going to do that?

 

 

Daboll seemed to do a pretty dam good job just at that. It’s like you missed the years of him being here. Weird. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

Daboll seemed to do a pretty dam good job just at that. It’s like you missed the years of him being here. Weird. 

Rose-colored glasses, PLENTY of terrible games by allen with daboll around.

 

[Roundybout]

2 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

Daboll seemed to do a pretty dam good job just at that. It’s like you missed the years of him being here. Weird. 

Well when he’s fired by NY we can get him back. 

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, Dirtyd415 said:

Brittany broke him.  Some guys need a strong woman to check them, get them revved up, allow the alpha to let their guard down.  He lost all of that and she took his dog.  He has looked like horse dung since then.  He is a hyper-emotional man, and since he lost her steadying hand he has stunk.  Running around getting your D wet all off-season isn’t the same as a solid woman having your back.

 

You could very well be right. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Top 3 problems:

 

1. Josh Allen has no discipline. He refuses to take the 7 yards consistently. 

 

2. There is a mismatch in the way Allen wants to play (vertical) and the actual Wide Receivers of this roster. The Bills pass catchers lack speed and talent, and therefore, win underneath. The Bills are getting the play they pay for - Harty is 5'6" undrafted, Sherfield was talked up all offseason by Sal C, he's an undrafted JAG, Kincaid, Knox and Cook are dump-off options, and Diggs just can't cover all the holes. Which brings me to the biggest issue with the roster construction...

 

3. Gabe Davis is black hole/sink hole of the offense. He is a useless WR who only runs one route. McDermott won't do anything about it, but Shakir needs to be mixed in on the outside more often, there is no reason Gabe needs to be playing 99% snaps. 

[RoscoeParrish]

https://x.com/nfl_dougfarrar/status/1701578846787739915?s=46&t=OXyXgvyV9xUtz0I9HYtilg
 

Its clearly the coaches!

 

Choose Your Own Adventure: You have Dalton Kincaid open underneath on third-and-2, or you can test Sauce Gardner and Jordan Whitehead upfield. 

Huh.

Edited September 12, 2023 by RoscoeParrish

[Toyo321]

JA17 is getting paid and signed a big contract.  At his point in his career right now he has plateaued & is a turnover prone QB.   He IMO is not the best QB when a game requires higher QB acumen & IQ and throwing the ball where it best gives the team the chance to win.   He can not do this and his coaching does not promote it either.

 

JA17 just went to the top of the list this year of QB's that has failed to live up the billing after getting paid, after yesterday's performance.  Yes even surpassing Dak.

 

This is not just a one game aberration, this is a continuation of last year, more excuses, more terrible throws leading to int's, terrible coaching and no one on the Bills coaching staff has any answers to rein this guy in.  

 

I said in a post earlier this year that everyone else in this division got better when we did not.  Last night proves this statement to be 100% true.

 

Beane's worst move ever was signing Von Miller.   This guy is damn unicorn and a money pit, he has not been on the field to help contribute to this team or to justify his salary, at all.   All this lost salary $ could have been spent on the missing quality talent we are missing, OL; LB; RB;  not the hand me downs that Beane always signs and brings on to this team, it has not worked in the last two years.   There is no money to get the key missing talent that we needed at the positions that are glaring problems with this team.

 

The Jets and Dolphins did do this,  they got better.

 

This is not a SB bound team in this iteration of the Bills for 2023.  When you can't beat Zach Wilson twice in two years you are not SB worthy.

[Franco_92]

Yah. Sleeping on it, though nothing was perfect (it never is) my only real problem with that game was Josh. 

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said:

I disagree not one called play from under center! 

 

There was one I formation stretch to the outside with Gilliam lead blocking that went for 10 yards. 

 

And they never went back to it, yet insisted on running right at Q all night long for -1 to 2 yards. 

[boyst]

24 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Well when he’s fired by NY we can get him back. 

dabol outlasts mcchump in buffalo

 

save this receipt.

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said:

I disagree not one called play from under center! 

 

There were a couple, but not many.

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I disagree that there wasn't plays called from under center. It's one of the ways we telegraph we're running. We ran a few plays from under center. Pretty sure all were runs. 

There was a play action pass.

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

I don't think he can. He is what he is.

 

And that’s fine .. IF he’s racking up TDs and throwing way fewer INTs. He’s not , and that’s a problem 

[boyst]

16 minutes ago, RoscoeParrish said:

https://x.com/nfl_dougfarrar/status/1701578846787739915?s=46&t=OXyXgvyV9xUtz0I9HYtilg
 

Its clearly the coaches!

 

Choose Your Own Adventure: You have Dalton Kincaid open underneath on third-and-2, or you can test Sauce Gardner and Jordan Whitehead upfield. 

Huh.

a good coach and coordinator don't call plays their qb won't make.

 

lamar jackson is a great example. look at what roman calls there and developed? look at what coordinators do with their talent and rosters.

 

ask yourself this: when you blame allen do you realistically have a way you can discipline or suddenly instill discipline not to play his backyard gung ho style? short of benching him there isn't much to do here. dorsey is up in the booth. mcchump doesn't have the scrote or ability to criticize him. brady is not experienced enough.

 

think back to rothlisberger in pittsburgh? he would get into screaming matches on the sideline when his coaches would hold him accountable. mahomes would go after that oc a few years back. brady, etc.

 

dabol got onto josh a while back but josh didn't fight back because he was growing - sure josh could have done better, and daboll wasn't perfect but i firmly believe we would be better off with daboll today than mcchump.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Also depends how u raise the horse how u nurture the horse. Seems to me like the horse lost his trainer and now needs a new one. 

 

It seems like Daboll was the one person that’s kept Josh grounded and sensible. I’m seeing nothing from Dorsey that says he’s developing Josh, in fact he’s regressing. 

 

It’s just one game, but it’s one more straw on the camel’s back. No panicking, but alert for sure. 

 

You won’t win often of your “star” is turning the ball over FOUR TIMES. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Yeah, because Daboll had his team so well prepared Sunday night.

Talent level isn't even on the same planet between the Bills and Giants. 

2 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

That ain't on the coaches 

Nope its 100% on allen