Kincaid looks good!

[Chicagobills]

He was on the field a lot and was open. Josh needs to utilize him more 

[Einstein]

Agreed.

I also think he would have caught the ball Knox dropped in OT, had he been in the same position as Knox.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Just now, Chicagobills said:

He was on the field a lot and was open. Josh needs to utilize him more 

could have caught 10 balls easy. Those tight ends were there in the flat for easy 7-yard gains. 

[sven233]

He should have had 10 targets tonight.

[KDIGGZ]

That Whitehead guy looked good. He caught more passes than Kincaid

[Dan in Owego]

Just now, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

could have caught 10 balls easy. Those tight ends were there in the flat for easy 7-yard gains. 

I believe this as well, got nothing to back this up but i think Josh needs to take more control and put Diggs in his place, too much forcing it to him

[Sestak4ever]

Was saying the entire second half that they should use Kincaid more. He caught everything and turned up field and was hard to tackle. Nice, basically safe plays that gain yardage continually, instead of going backwards on first down so many times.

[Milanos Milano]

I’m going to comb through the all 22s later. I know there were a handful of times he was open down the field and Allen just didn’t see him. 

[BillsFan130]

Trade up for a guy in the first round but don’t use him.

 

Bills are the kings of doing that 

[streetkings01]

Took almost a whole half before we targeted him.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 minutes ago, Dan in Owego said:

I believe this as well, got nothing to back this up but i think Josh needs to take more control and put Diggs in his place, too much forcing it to him

 

1 minute ago, Sestak4ever said:

Was saying the entire second half that they should use Kincaid more. He caught everything and turned up field and was hard to tackle. Nice, basically safe plays that gain yardage continually, instead of going backwards on first down so many times.

The scheme tonight was to use Cook and Harty against their linebackers and hope their speed beat them. The problem is that the jets were too fast. 
 

when we had both TEs out there, those same little checkdowns were all solid gains because our TEs were able to bowl over their safeties and linebackers in space.

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Agreed.

I also think he would have caught the ball Knox dropped in OT, had he been in the same position as Knox.

 

To give Knox a break, it was a tough catch.  Wide and nearly in the dirt.

 

All of the 2nd half I was texting the brothers and nephews to use Knox and Kincaid more.  I didn't get a chance to see if that would have worked.

[Norcalbillsfan]

2 minutes ago, Sestak4ever said:

Was saying the entire second half that they should use Kincaid more. He caught everything and turned up field and was hard to tackle. Nice, basically safe plays that gain yardage continually, instead of going backwards on first down so many times.

They did use him, he was open alot tonight. Dorsey called the plays, Kincaid got open, josh decided to instantly leave the pocket and catapult balls 50 yards down the field.

[Dr.Sack]

The problem is Kincaid deserves a pocket passer, and Allen does not read defenses fast enough and distributes the ball efficiently. Allen got greedy and turned a boring win into a meltdown. No hero hall can overcome 4 TOs.

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, Norcalbillsfan said:

They did use him, he was open alot tonight. Dorsey called the plays, Kincaid got open, josh decided to instantly leave the pocket and catapult balls 50 yards down the field.

I know for a fact he was open multiple times. I often times just focused on him when he was in the game. Allen either didn’t see him, or wasn’t play design to go to him. But Kincaid was open. 

[ShakAttack]

2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

To give Knox a break, it was a tough catch.  Wide and nearly in the dirt.

 

All of the 2nd half I was texting the brothers and nephews to use Knox and Kincaid more.  I didn't get a chance to see if that would have worked.

 

What do you think about the 3rd and 12 after that to Diggs though?  Tough one to catch, but went right through Diggs' hands.  Can't help but feel Garrett Wilson makes that catch.  And although it was placed in a tough spot, that particular throw may have been placed where it had to be (I'd have to re-watch though).  

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, BobBelcher said:

 

What do you think about the 3rd and 12 after that to Diggs though?  Tough one to catch, but went right through Diggs' hands.  Can't help but feel Garrett Wilson makes that catch.  And although it was placed in a tough spot, that particular throw may have been placed where it had to be (I'd have to re-watch though).  

 

Maybe so.  I'm disappointed in the offense on a lot of levels.

This game should have easily been 30-10.

 

 

[Einstein]

20 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

To give Knox a break, it was a tough catch.  Wide and nearly in the dirt.

 

Just my opinion, but I think an NFL player has to catch this.

 

[NewEra]

20 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

The problem is Kincaid deserves a pocket passer, and Allen does not read defenses fast enough and distributes the ball efficiently. Allen got greedy and turned a boring win into a meltdown. No hero hall can overcome 4 TOs.

That’s really what it looks like right now.  I think part of it is because he doesn’t trust the guys up front.  His eyes aren’t downfield long enough.  He’s just tucking and running and throwing bad passes to the opposition.  
 

our lord and savior looks to be somewhat ruined due to lack of investment in the OL.  I don’t want to say it, but Carson Wentz was good once too.  🤣 sorry I said that everyone!

[Dr.Sack]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

That’s really what it looks like right now.  I think part of it is because he doesn’t trust the guys up front.  His eyes aren’t downfield long enough.  He’s just tucking and running and throwing bad passes to the opposition.  
 

our lord and savior looks to be somewhat ruined due to lack of investment in the OL.  I don’t want to say it, but Carson Wentz was good once too.  🤣 sorry I said that everyone!

All we had to do was play boring and get around 5 yards and kick a FG to go up 16-6. It was reminiscent of Brady’s last Super Bowl win with the Patriots 13-3 over the Rams. Literally all Allen needed to do was stay on script and play boring Brady ball. Serious question. Does Allen have ADHD? Can he not win a boring game?

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

All we had to do was play boring and get around 5 yards and kick a FG to go up 16-6. It was reminiscent of Brady’s last Super Bowl win with the Patriots 13-3 over the Rams. Literally all Allen needed to do was stay on script and play boring Brady ball. Serious question. Does Allen have ADHD? Can he not win a boring game?

He’s got something.  I think he really misses Daboll and Dorsey isn’t helping.  I was hoping Dorsey would get the boot last season.  Let’s hope another full year with him doesn’t bury Josh.  
 

kincaid needs more looks.  4 targets.  4 catches.  He’s a chain mover 

[HappyDays]

Kincaid was way under utilized tonight. All of those swing passes we are throwing to Harty and Cook, get them to Kincaid instead. Dorsey had the right idea against the Jets defense but used the wrong players. I would honestly right now make Kincaid the #2 target over Davis. It would encourage Allen to throw the ball short and not force throws downfield.

[FireChans]

Just now, HappyDays said:

Kincaid was way under utilized tonight. All of those swing passes we are throwing to Harty and Cook, get them to Kincaid instead. Dorsey had the right idea against the Jets defense but used the wrong players. I would honestly right now make Kincaid the #2 target over Davis. It would encourage Allen to throw the ball short and not force throws downfield.

Where was the 12 personnel and the mismatches and the motion and the run game.  You led me astray! 

 

I actually believed the Bills would draft a talented player in the first round and try to actually use him to their advantage.  You got me good.

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Where was the 12 personnel and the mismatches and the motion and the run game.  You led me astray! 

 

I don't have official percentages but it felt like we were in 12 personnel more often than not. And it would have worked if Allen and Dorsey had used it properly. With the caveat that I'm going off of live broadcast footage I swear I saw Kincaid open a ton, often times in space with room to run. Allen for whatever reason wasn't looking at him. My hope is that they will see this on tape and make it a point to get him involved. 

 

As far as our run game, I have mixed feelings on Cook. When he has space and a chance to accelerate he looks great, very smooth and glides through the defense. But his initial burst is not quite what I hoped when we drafted him and he goes down on first contact almost every time. If he catches the ball short of the sticks with a defender approaching him it's a lost down every time. So I don't think he is going to be someone we can rely on to create plays, but he will maximize the plays that are there at least.

[NoSaint]

31 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Just my opinion, but I think an NFL player has to catch this.

 

Often, yes. With 100% reliability, none of them

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't have official percentages but it felt like we were in 12 personnel more often than not. And it would have worked if Allen and Dorsey had used it properly. With the caveat that I'm going off of live broadcast footage I swear I saw Kincaid open a ton, often times in space with room to run. Allen for whatever reason wasn't looking at him. My hope is that they will see this on tape and make it a point to get him involved. 

 

As far as our run game, I have mixed feelings on Cook. When he has space and a chance to accelerate he looks great, very smooth and glides through the defense. But his initial burst is not quite what I hoped when we drafted him and he goes down on first contact almost every time. If he catches the ball short of the sticks with a defender approaching him it's a lost down every time. So I don't think he is going to be someone we can rely on to create plays, but he will maximize the plays that are there at least.

only counter: the jets played fast and have a very physical defense. 
 

I think he will look like a star often this season. 
 

hopefully we can figure out looking good against the most elite units.

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't have official percentages but it felt like we were in 12 personnel more often than not. And it would have worked if Allen and Dorsey had used it properly. With the caveat that I'm going off of live broadcast footage I swear I saw Kincaid open a ton, often times in space with room to run. Allen for whatever reason wasn't looking at him. My hope is that they will see this on tape and make it a point to get him involved. 

 

As far as our run game, I have mixed feelings on Cook. When he has space and a chance to accelerate he looks great, very smooth and glides through the defense. But his initial burst is not quite what I hoped when we drafted him and he goes down on first contact almost every time. If he catches the ball short of the sticks with a defender approaching him it's a lost down every time. So I don't think he is going to be someone we can rely on to create plays, but he will maximize the plays that are there at least.

There is a serious problem with the team and leadership if the GM is drafting guys in the first round that the OC can’t or won’t use. It was the same thing with Knox last year. Why pay him to not use him?

 

Either Beane isn’t getting Dorsey guys he can use or Dorsey can’t use the guys Beane gets. But it’s a gigantic ***** problem.

[LABILLBACKER]

33 minutes ago, NewEra said:

That’s really what it looks like right now.  I think part of it is because he doesn’t trust the guys up front.  His eyes aren’t downfield long enough.  He’s just tucking and running and throwing bad passes to the opposition.  
 

our lord and savior looks to be somewhat ruined due to lack of investment in the OL.  I don’t want to say it, but Carson Wentz was good once too.  🤣 sorry I said that everyone!

6 years of neglecting the OL will do that.  This is all on the McB duo.  And unfortunately we're seeing the early stages of regression from JA.

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

the jets played fast and have a very physical defense. 

 

They do but I didn't see him getting bumped off his routes at all (again, with the caveat that this is based on live broadcast footage). Many times I saw him sitting open and already leveraging his body to maximize YAC if the ball came his way. But most of the time it didn't.

 

I know in the NFL coverage can be deceptive so I'll see what others think after watching the All-22. If what I saw is correct, I'm frustrated that we drafted a chain mover / stay on schedule pass catcher in the 1st round and refused to utilize him consistently in a game that was all about moving the chains and staying on schedule.

 

Allen supposedly told Beane he would love Kincaid to be our pick and was elated that we drafted him. So why isn't he looking his way? Why are we forcing balls downfield into an elite secondary when Kincaid is sitting there with leverage against a less than elite LB tandem?

[Milanos Milano]

13 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't have official percentages but it felt like we were in 12 personnel more often than not. And it would have worked if Allen and Dorsey had used it properly. With the caveat that I'm going off of live broadcast footage I swear I saw Kincaid open a ton, often times in space with room to run. Allen for whatever reason wasn't looking at him. My hope is that they will see this on tape and make it a point to get him involved. 

 

As far as our run game, I have mixed feelings on Cook. When he has space and a chance to accelerate he looks great, very smooth and glides through the defense. But his initial burst is not quite what I hoped when we drafted him and he goes down on first contact almost every time. If he catches the ball short of the sticks with a defender approaching him it's a lost down every time. So I don't think he is going to be someone we can rely on to create plays, but he will maximize the plays that are there at least.

He absolutely was open. I saw it a bunch of times. The all 22s will reveal it. I plan on watching it and will see how many times Allen missed him by not looking his way. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

43 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Just my opinion, but I think an NFL player has to catch this.

 

 

Not an egregious drop, but a catch that is probably made more often than not in the NFL. 

 

If Garret Wilson's TD was a 10/10 in difficulty this play by Knox was a 6/10. 

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

They do but I didn't see him getting bumped off his routes at all (again, with the caveat that this is based on live broadcast footage). Many times I saw him sitting open and already leveraging his body to maximize YAC if the ball came his way. But most of the time it didn't.

 

I know in the NFL coverage can be deceptive so I'll see what others think after watching the All-22. If what I saw is correct, I'm frustrated that we drafted a chain mover / stay on schedule pass catcher in the 1st round and refused to utilize him consistently in a game that was all about moving the chains and staying on schedule.

 

Allen supposedly told Beane he would love Kincaid to be our pick and was elated that we drafted him. So why isn't he looking his way? Why are we forcing balls downfield into an elite secondary when Kincaid is sitting there with leverage against a less than elite LB tandem?

my comment was more for cook

 

if addressing Kincaid- rookie tight ends never put up wr numbers. They take time as they are digesting a ton. Rarely will a guy walk in and be the focal point day 1. I didn’t see the over under for his receptions this week but I’d guess you could smash the under. He will pop some weeks but he’s going to be more of a 40-50 catch guy than 100 catch guy. 

[HappyDays]

16 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There is a serious problem with the team and leadership if the GM is drafting guys in the first round that the OC can’t or won’t use. It was the same thing with Knox last year. Why pay him to not use him?

 

Either Beane isn’t getting Dorsey guys he can use or Dorsey can’t use the guys Beane gets. But it’s a gigantic ***** problem.

 

Ultimately it's on Allen to read the defense and deliver the ball to the open player. I'm hoping he will see Kincaid sticking out like a sore thumb all over the tape this week and will make it a point to get him involved more in future weeks. Instead of lazily heaving the ball downfield info cover 2 shells.

 

Going back to 12 personnel helping the run game, that philosophy doesn't work unless you get the opposing LBs off the field for a slot CB. How do you get the LBs off the field? Punish them with throws to Kincaid over and over and over again until they have no choice.

 

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

my comment was more for cook

 

My bad, I read your comment as talking about Kincaid.

Edited September 12, 2023 by HappyDays

[FireChans]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Ultimately it's on Allen to read the defense and deliver the ball to the open player. I'm hoping he will see Kincaid sticking out like a sore thumb all over the tape this week and will make it a point to get him involved more in future weeks. Instead of lazily heaving the ball downfield info cover 2 shells.

 

Going back to 12 personnel helping the run game, that philosophy doesn't work unless you get the opposing LBs off the field for a slot CB. How do you get the LBs off the field? Punish them with throws to Kincaid over and over and over again until they have no choice.

Ultimately, yes Allen needs to do it. But if Dorsey can’t get Allen to do it, he’s the not the right coach. 
 

I think Allen respected and feared Daboll a bit. Allen didn’t dominate the power dynamic. That worked because Daboll could rein him in.  Now he’s got that superstar QB reputation. He could demand Dorsey fired tomorrow and they’d probably can him.  Allen is in charge and we are watching what the looks like.

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

6 years of neglecting the OL will do that.  This is all on the McB duo.  And unfortunately we're seeing the early stages of regression from JA.

Looks like it right now.  But let’s play some more games and see what happens 

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

if addressing Kincaid- rookie tight ends never put up wr numbers. They take time as they are digesting a ton. Rarely will a guy walk in and be the focal point day 1.

 

It didn't look to me like he was drinking from a firehose. He looked very comfortable out there. If Dorsey came into the game thinking he needs to bring Kincaid along slowly, he needs to lose that mindset now. The AFC is a gauntlet with little margin for error. No ramp up process. If he's ready he's ready.

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

That Whitehead guy looked good. He caught more passes than Kincaid

Can't catch throws that are never made.  

 

Josh needs to spread the ball out to all his weapons not just Diggs.  That just gets Diggs covered and having to make contested catches which he certainly wins a good percentage but  that also opens him up to getting injured more  likely in the rough game of the NFL.  He can get his touches and awards easily once the defense doesn't blanket him as the likely only wr getting thrown to by Allen.

 

 

[Dan Darragh]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

Agreed.

I also think he would have caught the ball Knox dropped in OT, had he been in the same position as Knox.

That was not a drop.  If Knox had clipped his fingernails before the game he wouldn't have even touched that ball.

[Milanos Milano]

26 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Ultimately it's on Allen to read the defense and deliver the ball to the open player. I'm hoping he will see Kincaid sticking out like a sore thumb all over the tape this week and will make it a point to get him involved more in future weeks. Instead of lazily heaving the ball downfield info cover 2 shells.

 

Going back to 12 personnel helping the run game, that philosophy doesn't work unless you get the opposing LBs off the field for a slot CB. How do you get the LBs off the field? Punish them with throws to Kincaid over and over and over again until they have no choice.

 

 

My bad, I read your comment as talking about Kincaid.

See you get it!! Why can’t Dorsey and Josh understand this? 

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, Dan in Owego said:

I believe this as well, got nothing to back this up but i think Josh needs to take more control and put Diggs in his place, too much forcing it to him

10 catches on 13 targets for 102 yards and 1 TD.  He needed to feed him more.  Especially when he was wide open on that 3rd INT when he tried to force it to Davis.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Doc Brown

[Nelius]

8 combined targets for our TEs by the way, don't believe that's been mentioned.

 

8 targets would have been borderline low for Dawson alone on opening day, but we also drafted a TE freak with our #1 this year. 8 targets for both? They were both on the field blocking and running routes, why so little involvement? You can essentially beat an entire TE into the ground in terms of production with the talent that we have at the position. I was expecting TE heavy and it was kind of just more TE afterthought.

 

To keep it more on topic, I liked what I saw with Kincaid but will need to review the lack of targets to see if he had any impact. I suspect he didn't. Kincaid alone needs 10-12 targets man.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Nelius