Bills restructure Taron Johnson and Ryan Bates- create 4.5M cap space

[NewEra]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/bills-restructure-contracts-of-ryan-bates-and-taron-johnson
 

Imo, most likely just to have some wiggle room “just in case”.  
 

edit: but apparently it was done to fit the PS guys under the cap

Edited September 5, 2023 by NewEra

[cle23]

Wiggle room, and if it's not used, they can roll over to next year.  Cleveland opened up like $20-$25M in the last couple weeks, and the only logical reason would be to roll it over for next year and offset the huge Watson number a bit.

[drummernut74]

Hopkins!!! 🤣🤣🤣

[Conlan58]

Kareem Hunt? 

[Back2Buff]

Every player that can be restructured, should be restructured.  I never understood what GMs don't understand about the roll over of cap.  The restructure would make the future cap hit higher, including the dead cap.  If you rolled over the cap that was created in the restructure, then it had no impact on the overall cap space.  However, it gives you flexibility throughout the year if you need to use it in an emergency.

[Beck Water]

56 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

Every player that can be restructured, should be restructured.  I never understood what GMs don't understand about the roll over of cap.  The restructure would make the future cap hit higher, including the dead cap.  If you rolled over the cap that was created in the restructure, then it had no impact on the overall cap space.  However, it gives you flexibility throughout the year if you need to use it in an emergency.

 

Do you understand what restructuring actually does?

 

Because, not wanting to sound condescending, from the above written, I'm not entirely sure that you do

Look at Tre White as an example:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/tredavious-white-21768/

 

Beane's strategy of only restructuring when he actually needs the cap space is correct.  Restructuring every player that can be restructured, is how you wind up with either a bunch of players who may no longer be playing up to their contract (not to say that will be Tre White, but it could be) OR a year with massive amounts of dead cap hit.

 

Worse, you can wind up with massive cap hits - for players who are no longer even under contract!  Here's another example to look at, Dion Dawkins.  What would restructing Dion do to 2025?
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/dion-dawkins-21805/

 

Here's another example of that, from another player who was restructured:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/micah-hyde-12440/

This is Micah Hyde's last year under contract.  Next year, we will have a cap charge of $3.4M for Hyde - while he is not under  contract to us!

There's a reason Beane and other GMs have referred to it as "kicking the can down the road"

Edited September 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[GETTOTHE50]

CHRIS JONES COME ON DOWNNNNN 

[No_Matter_What]

28 minutes ago, NewEra said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/bills-restructure-contracts-of-ryan-bates-and-taron-johnson
 

Imo, most likely just to have some wiggle room “just in case”.  

 

26 minutes ago, cle23 said:

Wiggle room, and if it's not used, they can roll over to next year.  Cleveland opened up like $20-$25M in the last couple weeks, and the only logical reason would be to roll it over for next year and offset the huge Watson number a bit.

This is NOT a wiggle room. This had to be done in order to get under that cap. As far as I remember today is the deadline when 53man roster and PS players kick in.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/

 

We were $1.5 under the cap (top 51), which means $80k (aka zero) under the cap for 53man roster. After that, we need to fit PS players under the cap, which is another $4.2M.

 

So this just makes room for PS players.

Edited September 5, 2023 by No_Matter_What

[NewEra]

20 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

Every player that can be restructured, should be restructured.  I never understood what GMs don't understand about the roll over of cap.  The restructure would make the future cap hit higher, including the dead cap.  If you rolled over the cap that was created in the restructure, then it had no impact on the overall cap space.  However, it gives you flexibility throughout the year if you need to use it in an emergency.

Another epically bad, yet expected take

[Bangarang]

23 minutes ago, Conlan58 said:

Kareem Hunt? 

Why would we do that?

[Beck Water]

10 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

 

This is NOT a wiggle room. This had to be done in order to get under that cap. As far as I remember today is the deadline when 53man roster and PS players kick in.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/

 

We were $1.5 under the cap (top 51), which means $80k (aka zero) under the cap for 53man roster. After that, we need to fit PS players under the cap, which is another $4.2.

 

So this just makes room for PS players.

 

This.  In fact, Beane is going to need to clear up some more cap somehow, because (for example) if a practice squad player is elevated, we need to pay him

 

If we need to sign an injury replacement, we need to pay him.

 

In fact I THINK Beane needs to make more moves, because I don't think IR, PUP, and NFI (depending upon what was negotiated) are counted in the cap that is currently calculated on sites like Spotrac, and they need to be accounted for. 

 

We may be seeing Beane restructure some guys he would rather not.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[Matt_In_NH]

28 minutes ago, cle23 said:

Wiggle room, and if it's not used, they can roll over to next year.  Cleveland opened up like $20-$25M in the last couple weeks, and the only logical reason would be to roll it over for next year and offset the huge Watson number a bit.

They need it for in season IR, PS and the fact there are 55 guys on the 53 already (2 on IR).

Edited September 5, 2023 by Matt_In_NH

[BuffaloBillyG]

With quite a few options on who they could have restructured I believe they got it right. I wouldn't want them kicking the can down the road on either Dawkins or White this year.

[Big Turk]

33 minutes ago, NewEra said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/bills-restructure-contracts-of-ryan-bates-and-taron-johnson
 

Imo, most likely just to have some wiggle room “just in case”.  

 

Yup, GM's like to have "x" amount of space just in case and likely had those in his back pocket earmarked for that purpose while doing other signings.

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

With quite a few options on who they could have restructured I believe they got it right. I wouldn't want them kicking the can down the road on either Dawkins or White this year.

 

I think Beane has to find an additional $11.7-$14.2M cap by 4 pm today for

-Von Miller on PUP ($7.94M)

-4 guys on IR ($2.46)

-whatever agreement the Bills made with Nyheim Hines on NFI (that's the wiggle room - $0.8M to $3.5M)

 

I'm not exactly sure where we're going to find that, but it's clear that some more moves have to be coming.

 

Including moves that, as you say, we would probably be wiser not to make.  But that's where we are.

 

15 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

They need it for in season IR, PS and the fact there are 55 guys on the 53 already (2 on IR).

 

Bills have 4 guys on IR.  Shorter, Spector on "eligible to return".  Doyle, Davidson on season-ending.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[BarleyNY]

26 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

 

This is NOT a wiggle room. This had to be done in order to get under that cap. As far as I remember today is the deadline when 53man roster and PS players kick in.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/

 

We were $1.5 under the cap (top 51), which means $80k (aka zero) under the cap for 53man roster. After that, we need to fit PS players under the cap, which is another $4.2M.

 

So this just makes room for PS players.

 

Correct. PS gets added today so the move was necessary to be cap compliant. I expect one more restructure to make room for regular in season transactions - call ups, IR replacements, etc. Almost certainly that’ll be Tre White or Dawkins. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Beck Water]

12 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yup, GM's like to have "x" amount of space just in case and likely had those in his back pocket earmarked for that purpose while doing other signings.

 

You're correct that GM's like to have X amount of space just in case, but Beane is still working on just getting under the cap.

[No_Matter_What]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think Beane has to find an additional $11.7-$14.2M cap by 4 pm today for

-Von Miller on PUP ($7.94M)

-4 guys on IR ($2.46)

-whatever agreement the Bills made with Nyheim Hines on NFI (that's the wiggle room - $0.8M to $3.5M)

 

I'm not exactly sure where we're going to find that, but it's clear that some more moves have to be coming.

 

Including moves that, as you say, we would probably be wiser not to make.  But that's where we are.

 

 

Bills have 4 guys on IR.  Shorter, Spector on "eligible to return".  Doyle, Davidson on season-ending.

I don't think bolded is correct. All those cap hits are already accunted for.

 

I think he needs to create maybe $2M more for some small in season moves, when someone goes for short term IR and is replaced on the roster etc.

Edited September 5, 2023 by No_Matter_What

[Beck Water]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

Correct. PS gets added today so the move was necessary to be cap compliant. I expect one more restructure to make room for regular in season transactions - call ups, IR replacements, etc. Almost certainly that’ll be Tre White or Dawkins. 

 

I think you're missing PUP, IR and NFI.  As far as I know they must all fit under the cap by 4 pm today.

[BarleyNY]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think Beane has to find an additional $11.7-$14.2M cap by 4 pm today for

-Von Miller on PUP ($7.94M)

-4 guys on IR ($2.46)

-whatever agreement the Bills made with Nyheim Hines on NFI (that's the wiggle room - $0.8M to $3.5M)

 

I'm not exactly sure where we're going to find that, but it's clear that some more moves have to be coming.

 

PUP, NFI and IR players count toward the cap.

Edited September 5, 2023 by BarleyNY

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, No_Matter_What said:

I don't think bolded is correct. All those cap hits are already accunted for.

 

I think he need to create maybe $2M more for some small in season moves, when someone goes for short term IR and is replaced on the roster etc.

 

I most fervently hope that you're right and I'm wrong.

I would absolutely LOVE to be mistaken on this.  I'm serious.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Beck Water

[BarleyNY]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think you're missing PUP, IR and NFI.  As far as I know they must all fit under the cap by 4 pm today.

 

They were all included already. Just PS today. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by BarleyNY

[SCBills]

Love that they did this necessary cap move with two young guys expected to be on the team for the foreseeable future.

 

Not that Dion and Tre for sure won’t be, but I am glad we’re keeping future options open if worst case scenario happens with either of them and play falls off. 
 

At least, so far… we’ll see if any other moves happen. 
 

Edited September 5, 2023 by SCBills

[Royale with Cheese]

45 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

Every player that can be restructured, should be restructured.  I never understood what GMs don't understand about the roll over of cap.  The restructure would make the future cap hit higher, including the dead cap.  If you rolled over the cap that was created in the restructure, then it had no impact on the overall cap space.  However, it gives you flexibility throughout the year if you need to use it in an emergency.

 

Nope.

[Beck Water]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

 

They were all included already. Just PS today. 

 

That would be a big "Phew"

[MiltonWaddams]

47 minutes ago, cle23 said:

Wiggle room, and if it's not used, they can roll over to next year.  Cleveland opened up like $20-$25M in the last couple weeks, and the only logical reason would be to roll it over for next year and offset the huge Watson number a bit.

So “roll it over” and “huge Watson number” can be used in a sentence under other connotations… whowouldathunkit?

[BarleyNY]

46 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

Every player that can be restructured, should be restructured.  I never understood what GMs don't understand about the roll over of cap.  The restructure would make the future cap hit higher, including the dead cap.  If you rolled over the cap that was created in the restructure, then it had no impact on the overall cap space.  However, it gives you flexibility throughout the year if you need to use it in an emergency.

 

The reality is that they have pretty much done that already.

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

 

The reality is that they have pretty much done that already.

 

I think they could do stuff with Dion Dawkins, Mitch Morse, Tre White, and Micah Hyde.  (LOL but maybe I'm wrong there too, I just looked though).  None would be desireable.

 

I don't think they should, of course.

 

They could also try to extend DaQuan Jones.   On that, I expect they'd like to but his people and Beane's people are still too far apart on what that would look like.

 

 

[Big Turk]

14 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

PUP, NFI and IR players count toward the cap.

 

IR only counts half usually right?

[BruceVilanch]

39 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Another epically bad, yet expected take

There's something to be said for his consistency though.

[Warriorspikes51]

I'm guessing this is just to allow for a move due to unforeseen injury in-season or in case they want to make a trade at the deadline
 

We'll take Mike Evans thanks 

[BarleyNY]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think they could do stuff with Dion Dawkins, Mitch Morse, Tre White, and Micah Hyde.  (LOL but maybe I'm wrong there too, I just looked though).  None would be desireable.

 

I don't think they should, of course.

 

They could also try to extend DaQuan Jones.   On that, I expect they'd like to but his people and Beane's people are still too far apart on what that would look like.

 

 

 

That’s all correct from what I see. I think they still have to do one more on that list to do for in season stuff. Tre makes the most sense to me, but it could be any of the players you listed. The Bills can push things further if they really want to - and it would buy them some space - but the space would have to be rolled over anyway. That’s what the Browns are doing. The real issue is probably that they are #1 in cash spending this season - just ahead of the Browns. LINK 

 

More and more teams are moving to this model as it allows them to outspend other teams. An owner who has and is willing to spend cash is a requirement. The Bills, Browns, Saints and Eagles are all operating this way to varying degrees. Those teams are also getting picked over for new GMs who will do the same things with their new teams if allowed. 

[BananaB]

Kirksey might be ready to start

[GunnerBill]

The 53 has to be under the cap as of last week. This week the PS counts.

[BarleyNY]

21 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

IR only counts half usually right?

No. It counts exactly the same as if they were on the 53. If the player has per game roster bonuses for being active then those obviously won’t be paid or count toward the cap. But that’s it. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by BarleyNY

[dollars 2 donuts]

2 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

 

This is NOT a wiggle room. This had to be done in order to get under that cap. As far as I remember today is the deadline when 53man roster and PS players kick in.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/

 

We were $1.5 under the cap (top 51), which means $80k (aka zero) under the cap for 53man roster. After that, we need to fit PS players under the cap, which is another $4.2M.

 

So this just makes room for PS players.

 

 

Thank you, NMW.  I did read that over the weekend.  I forget which guy on twitter mentioned it, but he was talking about all the teams (and he included the Bills...Chiefs, too) that had to make moves by the deadline (I'll take your word it is today).  

 

The talk in the thread with respect to the other teams was as you say, practice squad, etc.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by dollars 2 donuts

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I’m very interested to see if they convert Dawkins or Tre White. Both players clear a lot of space but both players are also cut candidates after the year. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m very interested to see if the concert Dawkins or Tre White. Both players clear a lot of space but both players are also cut candidates after the year. 

 

Yea I'd avoid both of those restructures and a DaQuan Jones extension like the plague if it were me. All three of those players should be left in a position where the Bills can move on after this season if they wish. If Tre looks like the old Tre through 6 weeks and they want to do it just before the trade deadline to allow them to bring someone in, fair enough. But doing it now.... not for me. 

[ColoradoBills]

47 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

They were all included already. Just PS today. 

 

Yes.  The PS starts to count when the Top 51 expires.  What confuses some people is the Top 51 rule expires at the start of the season.

The Chiefs and Lions MUST include their PS and all other contracts tomorrow. 

 

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The 53 has to be under the cap as of last week. This week the PS counts.

 

No.  The 51 rule is still in effect.  See above.

 

 This rule – the Rule of 51 – is in effect from the beginning of the league year in March until the first game of the regular season.

 

https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-salary-cap-faqs/#:~:text=This rule – the Rule of,Rule of 51 Cap number.

 

 

EDIT:  ALL Teams MUST be under the cap today.

September 5: At 12:00 a.m., the Top 51 Rule expires for all NFL clubs.

https://salarycapinfo.com/calendar/

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by ColoradoBills

[Logic]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The 53 has to be under the cap as of last week. This week the PS counts.

Bingo.

I believe the Bills HAD to do some cap maneuvering just to become cap compliant. That's what these moves were about.