Beane concerned with Kyle Allen?

[LabattBlue]

What bizarro world am I living in when there is a ferocious debate about PJ Walker vs Kyle Allen 😂😂😂

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I won't. Don't you hide if Kyle is utter trash either. 

You’re missing the whole point, I already know that. Most backups are trash, unknowns, former starters turned expensive backup.

 

To sit here and argue for the Bills to cut Kyle Allen for PJ Walker though is comical. I originally thought you were arguing for Keenum.

 

 

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He’s also 4-3 as a starter while playing for a bad team.  

 

Kyle Allen is 2-12 in his last 14 starts.  
 

 

Oh my goodness.

[TheBrownBear]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You just want anyone different. Remember we didn’t particularly like Keenum last year in camp and preseason either. 

They signed Kyle Allen to backup. What exactly has changed? His previous starting game film hasn’t changed.

 

 

At the end of the day, you need a guy who can protect the football and run the offense.  If Kyle Allen isn't showing a basic ability to understand the concepts and get beyond a single read this many weeks in, that is very concerning.  As far as his past stats or good play, that was some years ago now.  He was terrible in the two games he started for Houston last season.  The only thing he has going for him is youth.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

At the end of the day, you need a guy who can protect the football and run the offense.  If Kyle Allen isn't showing a basic ability to understand the concepts and get beyond a single read this many weeks in, that is very concerning.  As far as his past stats or good play, that was some years ago now.  He was terrible in the two games he started for Houston last season.  The only thing he has going for him is youth.

We knew everything about Kyle Allen before signing him as a backup! 
 

Fans take preseason too seriously. If there’s a proven veteran upgrade then bring in the upgrade.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Forget about those bums !

 

Let's get TYROD !!

[TheBrownBear]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

We knew everything about Kyle Allen before signing him as a backup! 
 

Fans take preseason too seriously. If there’s a proven veteran upgrade then bring in the upgrade.

Honestly, I never liked the signing from the get go.  I admittedly didn't catch his early career peak with the Panthers, but I did happen to watch him last year with Houston and he looked clueless back there.  You could put pretty much any QB who has seen NFL action in there to produce at or above current Kyle Allen level.  I'm not sweating it too much, we do have bigger issues like MLB, but we will all be sweating it if Josh suffers the type of injury that keeps you out for a few weeks.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Just reading this thread.  I think you're right.  I was stunned that they were looking at Lance; he just doesn't seem like a fit, although I suppose he's sort of like the Trubisky case.  But the fact that they were looking is what is telling.  

 

Still, I'd think that they don't want to give up on Kyle as the long-term backup.  He has the basic skills, and as has been said, Keenum didn't jump right in and pick it all up at once, either.  

 

We'll know in a day or two.  

Lance seems like the perfect fit. I believe he was even compared to Allen coming out. He would have been the perfect development guy behind Allen.

2 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Forget about those bums !

 

Let's get TYROD !!

I was so out on Tyrod as a starter but he would be the perfect backup behind Allen. He may not win games himself but he certainly won’t be the reason you lose. 
 

can’t see the giants letting him go though. 

[C.Biscuit97]

23 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

What bizarro world am I living in when there is a ferocious debate about PJ Walker vs Kyle Allen 😂😂😂

Do you prefer Losman vs Holcomb? Or talking up Jeff Tuel???

 

at least it’s for backup! We have come a long way. The amount of time I wasted debating that 😂 

[TheBrownBear]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

Do you prefer Losman vs Holcomb? Or talking up Jeff Tuel???

 

at least it’s for backup! We have come a long way. The amount of time I wasted debating that 😂 

I really thought Jeff Tuel had what it took to be our next Jim Kelly there for about one half against the Chiefs.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Kyle Allen isn't totally incompetent. You'd hope to go 2-1, might go 1-2. But the reason he has a job is because you really want to avoid bringing in the total replacement level guy who is likely to go 0-3.

I disagree. I don't think he has the ability to win you any games, personally. That's the problem.

[GunnerBill]

43 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You’re missing the whole point, I already know that. Most backups are trash, unknowns, former starters turned expensive backup.

 

To sit here and argue for the Bills to cut Kyle Allen for PJ Walker though is comical. I originally thought you were arguing for Keenum.

 

 

 

I am arguing for Keenum. But I am arguing for trying anything better than Kyle Allen. And there is lots of that. I don't think PJ Walker is good, just like you don't think Kyle is good. 

 

I think one might have a better chance than the other of moving the ball on this team.

Edited August 28, 2023 by GunnerBill

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

Let's be real...unless you have the cap space for a high end backup, you are going to struggle to win games if QB1 goes down.  Most teams that have that type of cap space for a high end back up have their starter on a rookie deal or the starter isn't very good so if he struggles they can turn to the high priced backup to hopefully come in and give them a boost for a few games.

 

 

Agree about the cap hit for a team like the Bills.

 

Personally, I was happy the Bills signed Kyle Allen for $1.1M and I really thought he would be a decent fit for the backup job.

From what I have seen, he's been a pretty big disappointment.  Add to that, it's seems to me that Matt Barkley bring nothing to that role too.

 

One of them HAS to go and a plan to rotate these guys out and bring in some others seems justifiable.  Of course, the guys they bring in

for the $1M to $1.5M might not be any better, but when it comes to younger backups you just never know.  I'd rather go that route looking

for another Purdy than what they seem to have now.

[DCofNC]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I just don't buy this.  The reality is that as soon as McDermott is addressing the team following a J Allen injury, McDermott is telling everyone on the team they have to step it.   He's telling Dorsey, "you MUST have a game plan that protects Kyle Allen.  He needs easy reads, easy throws, etc.  You MUST have a running game."   He's telling the DC (hah!), "you CANNOT give up more than 15 points this week."   And all of those messages are getting passed down through the lines of communication. 

 

His message is "complementary football," and when one guy goes down, someone else has to step up.   He has built his team to respond to challenges.   Josh is down for three weeks, McDermott is preparing his team to win three games, and his team will respond.  May not win three, but they will not roll over.  

 

So, I just don't think the world will end if Kyle Allen is playing QB.  Guys have to step up.   

 

J Allen out for 6-8 games, it's a different story.  But chances are very slim that any backup is replacing Josh for half a season and the team keeps winning.

I don’t think they would “give up” per se.  The thing is Allen IS the offense. Aside from Diggs, it can be argued there isn’t another starting WR on this roster.  Davis is ok, but he’s really a 3, his numbers lie a bit because of volume, but he’s not a legit 2.  The rest of the WRs are JAGs, nothing more.   Unless Kindcaid has an exceptional rookie season, which we hope for, there’s nobody on this team that anybody has to scheme against.   Take away Allen and plug in a bottom 15 starting QB, you have a sub .500 club.  
 

Every team has a plan to beat the Bills with Allen, without him hiding the deficiencies, it’s going to be Very tough to win.   The defense is ok, but if teams know they don’t have to worry about Allen dropping 30 on them, they can just play power ball, work the middle of the field and destroy the obvious weaknesses.  Hell the Pats didn’t even have to throw to beat them when Allen struggled in the elements.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

I disagree. I don't think he has the ability to win you any games, personally. That's the problem.

He's 7-12 as a starter

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBear said:

I really thought Jeff Tuel had what it took to be our next Jim Kelly there for about one half against the Chiefs.

Has there ever been another QB to start one game, throw for 300 yards, and then never get another start?

[Gunsgoodtime]

2 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Forget about those bums !

 

Let's get TYROD !!

I would be all for this

[HappyDays]

Colt McCoy just became available. I would be all over this.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

Colt McCoy just became available. I would be all over this.

 

Yep. I'm in on Colt.

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

Colt McCoy just became available. I would be all over this.

36 years old,  career  79.9 rating   34 TD,  32 INT

Better than what we have 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. I'm in on Colt.

He’s no PJ Walker.

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

36 years old,  career  79.9 rating   34 TD,  32 INT

Better than what we have 

 

Most importantly, 3-3 as a backup in the past 2 years, and that's playing for a much worse team. .500 is all we need from a backup.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

We've got to bring this man back !

 

[The Frankish Reich]

41 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He's 7-12 as a starter

Which is about what you’d expect of a guy relegated to journeyman backup. A .368 win percentage, and mostly on bad teams. In other words, expect him to go 1-2 as a starter if Josh misses 3 games. 2-1 if he’s lucky or his opponents are bad teams. 

13 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

36 years old,  career  79.9 rating   34 TD,  32 INT

Better than what we have 

I suggest you look at Kyle Allen’s career stats 

[Warriorspikes51]

17 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Which is about what you’d expect of a guy relegated to journeyman backup. A .368 win percentage, and mostly on bad teams. In other words, expect him to go 1-2 as a starter if Josh misses 3 games. 2-1 if he’s lucky or his opponents are bad teams. 

I suggest you look at Kyle Allen’s career stats 

Fine, put Kyle Allen and Barkley on the PS because they are Josh buddies

[GunnerBill]

42 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He’s no PJ Walker.

 

They are all preferrable to Kyle.

[The Frankish Reich]

19 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Fine, put Kyle Allen and Barkley on the PS because they are Josh buddies

Which is ideally where they'd be, but an upgrade = more money, which they don't have under the cap, and if they did have would be better spent on upgrading/adding depth to the O line, or linebacker, or other places.

The names I'm hearing here as possible upgrades - Colt McCoy, PJ Walker, etc. - aren't upgrades at all. Case Keenum is probably a bit better, but he would probably cost more in trade value and/or salary. Trey Lance would've been intriguing, but the Bills were a bad fit for him: he's raw and the chances of him not even keeping you in a game that your defense/special teams can win are lower, and there's no sense in grooming him to take over since Allen will be here for a long time.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Which is ideally where they'd be, but an upgrade = more money, which they don't have under the cap, and if they did have would be better spent on upgrading/adding depth to the O line, or linebacker, or other places.

The names I'm hearing here as possible upgrades - Colt McCoy, PJ Walker, etc. - aren't upgrades at all. Case Keenum is probably a bit better, but he would probably cost more in trade value and/or salary. Trey Lance would've been intriguing, but the Bills were a bad fit for him: he's raw and the chances of him not even keeping you in a game that your defense/special teams can win are lower, and there's no sense in grooming him to take over since Allen will be here for a long time.

 

Depends how much you think Kyle Allen sucks. I think he sucks a lot.

 

Case Keenum isn't as good as in his prime but he is a completely different tier to Kyle. 

[GoBills808]

PJ Walker lol

 

I suggest you all go watch his games, and then try to figure out how badly you have to play to put up that TD/INT ratio on sub58% completion, and then after that realize he just lost his job to an undrafted DivisionII rookie

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

You need a strong arm to run this deep ball offense.  Kyle has a stronger arm than Keenum and Barkley.

 

Barkleys throwing floaters out there on some of those 40 yard outs.

 

Kyle just needs more time to learn the offense and he will be fine.

 

I thought he made some nice throws in the last preseason game, especially threading the needle on that TD pass.

[AuntieEm]

7 hours ago, DCofNC said:

For the love, you really think GMs are not humans?  It doesn’t take a genius to see what everyone else does and for him to say something along those lines in a casual conversation would not at all surprise me.  
 

I have personally interacted with past GMs, while they were on the job, their passion is football, they talk football and yes they talk about the players.  They hear/see what fans/media say, it’s not like they are robots in a bubble.   I was speaking with a former GM and brought up a big signing and asked him point blank if he really thought it was worth it, he gave me a real answer about the player and ended it with “I hope it works out, because I’ll be out of a job if it doesn’t”.  For those that care, it did work out pretty well and he’s still out of a job 😂

 

I understand they are human have lapses but I just don't see them giving that type of personal judgement to someone on the TV media broadcast team.  As well I don't think many of the TV crews aren't pretty good about saving such condos away from the mics, even if t hey thought they were off.

48 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Fine, put Kyle Allen and Barkley on the PS because they are Josh buddies

 

 Josh makes enough cash to treat his buddies to a small visit at his home. Or treat buddies to a nice vacation trip with him in offseason.

Edited August 28, 2023 by AuntieEm

[ColoradoBills]

27 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

You need a strong arm to run this deep ball offense.  Kyle has a stronger arm than Keenum and Barkley.

 

Barkleys throwing floaters out there on some of those 40 yard outs.

 

Kyle just needs more time to learn the offense and he will be fine.

 

I thought he made some nice throws in the last preseason game, especially threading the needle on that TD pass.

 

I'm disappointed in Kyles play so far BUT I keep him over Barkley.  I'm rewatching the Bears game and as I read your post Kyle hit Atemon for 20 yarder

down the middle.  It was a strong throw.  Keep Kyle as the #2 but bring in competition for him on the PS.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I should hope he’s concerned. It doesn’t really need to be said to be known.

[Patrick Duffy]

I feel that Beane is just one of very, very many that's concerned with Kyle Allen,

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

 

I understand they are human have lapses but I just don't see them giving that type of personal judgement to someone on the TV media broadcast team.  As well I don't think many of the TV crews aren't pretty good about saving such condos away from the mics, even if t hey thought they were off.

 

 Josh makes enough cash to treat his buddies to a small visit at his home. Or treat buddies to a nice vacation trip with him in offseason.

I think you over estimate the amount guys talk, but believe what you want.

[Nuncha]

Here is a link to the article (from June of 2022) where Fitz said he doesn't want to be a backup here and why.  Good read.

 

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2022/06/ryan-fitzpatrick-reveals-why-he-wouldnt-be-backup-to-buffalo-bills-josh-allen.html#:~:text=Why%3F,that pattern continue in 2022.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Nuncha

[zow2]

Now that Dallas has Trey Lance and Cooper Rush,   Beane should trade for Will Grier.  he’s still relatively young, has wheels, and appears to be getting it.  I’d rather have someone like that than what we know won’t work.

[The Frankish Reich]

22 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Depends how much you think Kyle Allen sucks. I think he sucks a lot.

 

Case Keenum isn't as good as in his prime but he is a completely different tier to Kyle. 

I agree with that. Keenum has actually had a decent run of success in the NFL, which will never happen for the likes of Kyle Allen and Matt Barkley.

 

But again: priorities. Spotrac says Keenum (under his current contract) brings a cap hit of $2.8 million. Kyle Allen? $1.1 million

 

You get what you pay for.

[LABILLBACKER]

23 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Depends how much you think Kyle Allen sucks. I think he sucks a lot.

 

Case Keenum isn't as good as in his prime but he is a completely different tier to Kyle. 

Thank you. Anyone who can't see this is just kinda myopic. 

[Beck Water]

On 8/27/2023 at 11:58 PM, QCity said:

 

Beane has been on Miller's SiriusXM radio show every year since he's been a GM. It seems they have a good relationship and not inconceivable that they speak off the record.

 

Beane's rumored persuit of Lance lends credence. 

 

Of course, the clear evidence is how poorly the backups have played, especially in terms of protecting the football.

 

So here's the thing.  If I speak "off the record" to you, it means I'm speaking in confidence.  It's between you, me, and the walls.

 

If you then make it between you, me, and your radio broadcast buddy IN THE BOOTH, with microphones around, it's no longer "off the record".  You have broken my confidence.

 

If it were true that Beane said something like that "off the record" to Miller, you need to change the tense to "it seems they HAD a good relationship".

Edited August 31, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

On 8/28/2023 at 12:32 AM, HappyDays said:

 

You'd be surprised what reporters find out that they never actually report, and equally surprised how careless many people are around microphones. I didn't hear the slip-up myself but it's not totally unbelievable that this happened. I believe Beane has a good relationship with Jim Miller actually, he goes on his radio show a fair amount. GMs will divulge a lot of things in casual conversations off the air, especially inconsequential things like this.

 

I guess opinions will vary, but if you express such a negative opinion of a player you have signed and are evaluating - not just "he's struggling right now, the playbook is new to him, I'm concerned" but "he just doesn't have what it takes / it's never gonna happen for him" - Wow.  That's a very concerning way to talk about your roster to a member of the media, even "off the record".  I don't think that's inconsequential to tell the media that a player you signed and penciled in as "#2" just doesn't have what it takes and is never going to improve.

 

If your judgement is so bad that you confide in a member of the media "off the record" who then babbles it to his media buddy in front of a microphone, that's even worse.

 

It's one thing for reporters to find something out, but for the GM to say something like that outside the facility, to someone who doesn't evaluate talent or coach for the Bills....Whew.

 

I am highly skeptical because the Bills under Beane have a reputation as a "deep well", where scouts and NFL insiders say you just don't hear anything until it's happening.  and that starts at the top, with Beane.

 

It seems very out of character and out of keeping with the way the Bills seem to run things.