Beane concerned with Kyle Allen?

[Heavy Kevi]

9 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

You could start by using that phrase correctly.

 

If Beane said that quote off the record unquote then the guy wouldn't have repeated it

 

I mean, sure... In theory.

 

I know lots of media members (mostly newspaper and radio) and guess what?

 

They are normal people. And normal people don't always follow the rules (whether unwitting or not). 

 

I have literally said "off the record" to reporters before and the "off record" comments were PRINTED on the front page.

 

So yeah, I don't have a hard time believing this is feasible. Whether or not it's true is another conversation entirely.

 

As a society we like to pretend certain professions (doctors, lawyers, reporters, etc) are above the fray, and have integrity; but time and time again we are proven foolhardy in that inclination. They are normal too, and a blanket "if this, then this; because rules" argument doesn't really move the needle on if this legitimately happened.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You’ve moved the goalposts of our conversation while putting words in my mouth.  I’m not talking about paying a backup QB anymore than Kyle Allen.  

 

You asked who cares about the backup QB and are operating under the assumption that if Allen gets hurt, the season is over.  It’s a very flawed way of thinking.  I would hope that our GM doesn’t share the same shortsighted view.  
 

I didn’t say we had to pay a good backup.  I think there are other minimum salary QBs that can help us win games better than Kyle Allen can.  I think that just about any mobile QB would give us a better chance to win than Kyle Allen.  Maybe I’m being harsh, but I think he’s terrible
 

You just want anyone different. Remember we didn’t particularly like Keenum last year in camp and preseason either. 

They signed Kyle Allen to backup. What exactly has changed? His previous starting game film hasn’t changed.

 

 

[Antonio]

11 hours ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

I live outside the U.S., so I have to watch the feed from DAZN (which is awful, but that's another story)

 

This week we got the Chicago feed. The announcers were Jim Miller and some other guy. They actually did a good job focusing on both clubs, not only paying attention to the Bears.

 

But here's the interesting part. During the commercials, the feed stayed with the stadium broadcast. In one break, Miller and his partner's mics were left on and we got to hear their off air conversation. This is almost a direct quote (not sure if it was Miller or his partner who was speaking)

 

"Beane told me Allen has struggled from the very beginning. He just doesn't have what it takes / it's never gonna happen for him. He said he was very concerned."

 

Anyone else want to corroborate what I heard?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also saw it thru DAZAN, but just watched the first half. Do you remember when did they said this? Was that in the 3rd or 4th quarter? I would like to go back and check it out. 

 

It was funny to me that during brakes you cuold hear a lot of what was going on... In the stadium they were playing a Mexican Band and players were dancing to it. Also heard them talking about off the game stuff, but didn´t catch the Allen thing. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I just don't understand how the Bills could be surprised about Kyle Allen struggling. 

 

He's as cheap of a primary backup QB you can possibly get in 2023 NFL football. 

 

It's a calculated risk the Bills have rolled with since drafting Josh Allen. They've skimped on backup-QB in favor of utilizing that money elsewhere. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

Wow, I did not hear that, but I missed a few portions of the game. Did anyone else hear that?

I did not, but now I want to go back

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You just want anyone different. Remember we didn’t particularly like Keenum last year in camp and preseason either. 

They signed Kyle Allen to backup. What exactly has changed? His previous starting game film hasn’t changed.

 

 

I wouldn’t just want someone different if I thought the guy we had could win some games.  I don’t think he’s capable unless he went up against the worst or the worst pass rushing teams.  We saw how bad he was vs the terrible Colt pass rush.  
 

his previous game film doesn’t mean anything to me.  He’s thrown very few passes since 2019 and looks to have regressed while getting few reps.  Many players regress sitting on the bench getting backup reps. Watching him play this year, I don’t think he’s the same player as his starting game film.  

i didn’t necessarily like Case Keenum either.  I’d prefer a backup QB with some wheels that can escape the inevitable pass rush and make a play with his legs.  I liked him more than Allen.

My point in all this.  I care about the backup QB.  This notion that if a backup QB has to play, the season is over is 🗑️.   

Edited August 28, 2023 by NewEra

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You just want anyone different. Remember we didn’t particularly like Keenum last year in camp and preseason either. 

They signed Kyle Allen to backup. What exactly has changed? His previous starting game film hasn’t changed.

 

 

 

No I just want someone better. And there are lots of them. Kyle Allen sucks.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I wouldn’t just want someone different if I thought the guy we had could win some games.  I don’t think he’s capable unless he went up against the worst or the worst pass rushing teams.  We saw how bad he was vs the terrible Colt pass rush.  
 

his previous game film doesn’t mean anything to me.  He’s thrown very few passes since 2019 and looks to have regressed while getting few reps.  Many players regress sitting on the bench getting backup reps. Watching him play this year, I don’t think he’s the same player as his starting game film.  
 

I’m just saying-  there’s a chance that backup QB matters.  The notion that it means nothing is 💩 imo.  

Is this how you always felt or just based on preseason?

 

The Bills signed him months ago to backup. The regular season is a different animal for many reasons. The Bills will run an offense to fit Kyle. Right now there’s no game planing. I don’t think anyone we get will be much better unless they are experienced starters.

 

I would take Keenum over Kyle Allen if possible. I’m not stressing over it though.

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Is this how you always felt or just based on preseason?

 

The Bills signed him months ago to backup. The regular season is a different animal for many reasons. The Bills will run an offense to fit Kyle. Right now there’s no game planing. I don’t think anyone we get will be much better unless they are experienced starters.

 

I would take Keenum over Kyle Allen if possible. I’m not stressing over it though.

 

 

I can't remember watching him play for Carolina when he made a few starts. Based on the numbers I was cautiously optimistic. 

 

But what has me concerned about his pre-season is nothing to do with game planning or play calling it is his general skittishness and lack of pocket awareness. He is atrocious. 

 

I think you could have Bill Walsh gameplanning and playcalling and the pocket awareness would still be a problem.

[The Frankish Reich]

19 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

I have literally said "off the record" to reporters before and the "off record" comments were PRINTED on the front page.

That's really bad.

I've been in the same situation, and I've always had reporters respect an "off the record" comment. 

If I understand this one correctly, Beane allegedly said something off the record to a broadcaster, who then inadvertently repeated it to another broadcaster without realizing there was an open mic. That's just a mistake. My understanding is that journalists can share off the record comments with other journalists or editors, but that they won't publicize them (except by mistake)

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I can't remember watching him play for Carolina when he made a few starts. Based on the numbers I was cautiously optimistic. 

 

But what has me concerned about his pre-season is nothing to do with game planning or play calling it is his general skittishness and lack of pocket awareness. He is atrocious. 

 

I think you could have Bill Walsh gameplanning and playcalling and the pocket awareness would still be a problem.

Kyle Allen backing up Josh Allen has been talked about for years on this board.

 

If Kyle Allen starts the Bills become a ball control run based offense. He’s not going to be throwing all over.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Kyle Allen backing up Josh Allen has been talked about for years on this board.

 

If Kyle Allen starts the Bills become a ball control run based offense. He’s not going to be throwing all over.

 

We better run for 300 yards then. I'm with whoever said above if the Bears go with the kid who went 2nd against us I'd bring PJ Walker in. At least his mobility gives us a shot at moving the chains.

[Big Turk]

Let's be real...unless you have the cap space for a high end backup, you are going to struggle to win games if QB1 goes down.  Most teams that have that type of cap space for a high end back up have their starter on a rookie deal or the starter isn't very good so if he struggles they can turn to the high priced backup to hopefully come in and give them a boost for a few games.

 

[The Frankish Reich]

Has anyone looked at the quality of backup QBs in the NFL?

Our division:

- Miami, a team with a particularly fragile starter, has Mike White and Skylar Thompson as #2 and #3

- The Jets, a team with a 39 year old starter, have Zach Wilson and Tim Boyle

- The Pats are probably best off with Bailey Zappe and Trace McSorley, but the gap between starter and backup isn't so big simply because Mac Jones isn't so good

 

The only "good" backups are typically the guys like Garoppolo last year, who got demoted only because Shanahan really wanted to go to Trey Lance. That's why they got better when Jimmy took over.

[Heavy Kevi]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

That's really bad.

I've been in the same situation, and I've always had reporters respect an "off the record" comment. 

If I understand this one correctly, Beane allegedly said something off the record to a broadcaster, who then inadvertently repeated it to another broadcaster without realizing there was an open mic. That's just a mistake. My understanding is that journalists can share off the record comments with other journalists or editors, but that they won't publicize them (except by mistake)

 

Indeed. I agree with everything you said there.

 

My point was to show an extreme case, making this situation seem not-so crazy.

 

Most of the times I say off the record, it's just that. But mistakes happen. I even like the guy and now I'll sometimes say "Bill (that's not his real name), tell me you won't print this"

 

In my experience, off record comments generally provide context to the writer, giving them information that even though they can't share, helps frame the situation so they understand the nuance. Beane's (potential) comments certainly "fit the bill" and I would not be surprised if this a true story (and now more than 1 poster has confirmed hearing it)

[JohnNord]

11 hours ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

I live outside the U.S., so I have to watch the feed from DAZN (which is awful, but that's another story)

 

This week we got the Chicago feed. The announcers were Jim Miller and some other guy. They actually did a good job focusing on both clubs, not only paying attention to the Bears.

 

But here's the interesting part. During the commercials, the feed stayed with the stadium broadcast. In one break, Miller and his partner's mics were left on and we got to hear their off air conversation. This is almost a direct quote (not sure if it was Miller or his partner who was speaking)

 

"Beane told me Allen has struggled from the very beginning. He just doesn't have what it takes / it's never gonna happen for him. He said he was very concerned."

 

Anyone else want to corroborate what I heard?

 

 

 

 

 

 

We do know that he called on Trey Lance, so it’s definitely possible that the Bills are looking to see if they can find an upgrade.  As far as being “very concerned,” I’m not so sure 

[Shaw66]

34 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Agreed.

A while back I took a look at how teams do when they have to bring in the classic "emergency QB." The guy signed off the street who has a week to learn the offense. We've seen a few of those here: Derek Anderson (horrid, but on a horrid offense), Thad Lewis (better than expected) come to mind. Overall, even these emergency/almost no preparation time guys actually win about a third of the time. My conclusions were:

- there's a lot of randomness in the NFL. Any given Sunday and all that. 

- we tend to overrate the value of a backup QB. There's a huge chasm between Josh Allen and Kyle Allen. Not much of a gap between Kyle Allen and another journeyman, Jordan Allen, who came into Niners camp this year as QB #4 - basically freely available talent. (I guess he'll now be their #3 with Lance traded).

 

A few teams every year are lucky enough (or stupid enough to commit serious money to a backup QB? It's a good question) to have an unusually good backup. Mostly you are looking at the revolving door of Kyle Allens and Jordan Allens. And if you look closely at results over the course of a game or three, you won't find any significant difference between the guys you pay a little more (Kyle) vs. a little less (Jordan)

Yep. My point, but you said it with a lot fewer words!

Agree with all of this.  But in the case of Kyle, he could be yout guy in Buffalo fot 8 years.  That stability is valuable.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We better run for 300 yards then. I'm with whoever said above if the Bears go with the kid who went 2nd against us I'd bring PJ Walker in. At least his mobility gives us a shot at moving the chains.

I’m sorry but PJ Walker is terrible. That is not an upgrade. He can’t throw.

 

That is exactly what I’m talking about. You want PJ Walker?

Edited August 28, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[BarleyNY]

11 hours ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

I live outside the U.S., so I have to watch the feed from DAZN (which is awful, but that's another story)

 

This week we got the Chicago feed. The announcers were Jim Miller and some other guy. They actually did a good job focusing on both clubs, not only paying attention to the Bears.

 

But here's the interesting part. During the commercials, the feed stayed with the stadium broadcast. In one break, Miller and his partner's mics were left on and we got to hear their off air conversation. This is almost a direct quote (not sure if it was Miller or his partner who was speaking)

 

"Beane told me Allen has struggled from the very beginning. He just doesn't have what it takes / it's never gonna happen for him. He said he was very concerned."

 

Anyone else want to corroborate what I heard?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing that. I can say this for sure, Beane should be concerned about Kyle Allen as the backup QB. Barkley is no better. 

[The Frankish Reich]

Also remember the randomness in QB performance/stats.

I just said the Pats are in the best backup QB shape with Bailey Zappe. That's because he made a couple starts last year and he was surprisingly good: 

100.0 and 118.4 QB ratings.

 

Kyle Allen's first 2 starts in the NFL:

111.3 and 144.4 QB ratings. On the basis of that, he's always had a job for the last 5 years.

 

My hunch is that Zappe's next dozen starts will be more like Kyle Allen's last dozen starts.

 

Dumb luck early on? Defenses don't have film on their weaknesses? Both?

Moral: If you want to be a career backup and always have a job, just have a couple good starts at the beginning of your career. You can then continuously suck for the next half dozen years and still be employed.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m sorry but PJ Walker is terrible. That is not an upgrade. He can’t throw.

 

That is exactly what I’m talking about. You want PJ Walker?

 

Over Kyle Allen?? Yes. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Over Kyle Allen?? Yes. 

Not even close. PJ Walker can barely throw for 100 yards. What is going on?

[NewEra]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Is this how you always felt or just based on preseason?

 

The Bills signed him months ago to backup. The regular season is a different animal for many reasons. The Bills will run an offense to fit Kyle. Right now there’s no game planing. I don’t think anyone we get will be much better unless they are experienced starters.

 

I would take Keenum over Kyle Allen if possible. I’m not stressing over it though.

 

It’s how I feel right now.   By all accounts, he’s been bad on most days in training camp.  He’s been bad in games unless he’s playing against third stringers.  He was bad last season. What have you done for me lately….. not in 2019.  He doesn’t look the same.  I hope he’s on the PS

[bmur66]

I won't be sold on Kyle Allen until I see him punking customers in the Bills Store.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Not even close. PJ Walker can barely throw for 100 yards. What is going on?

 

I don't think PJ Walker is a great passer but his legs might give us a route to move the chains. I am worried we won't be able to move the chains at all with Kyle Allen. 

I should say it isn't Kyle Allen's throws that I worry about so much. They are of typical backup Quarterback standard. It is a guy behind our line with no pocket presence, no pocket awareness, and very little escapability. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think PJ Walker is a great passer but his legs might give us a route to move the chains. I am worried we won't be able to move the chains at all with Kyle Allen. 

As someone who rostered DJ Moore in fantasy multiple seasons, PJ Walker is absolute trash. He’s had 1 decent passing game and that included a 60 yard Hail Mary.

 

Hes not even a better runner than Kyle Allen. I don’t even understand how this is the option you came up with?

 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

And that's exactly what I said! I agree with you. Kyle Allen gets you to 0-3 over a three-game stretch, pretty much, unless the Bills get lucky with ST plays and defensive TDs.

Come on. 0-3? You really think the Bills roster is that weak? Guys like Von Miller, Milano, Diggs, Tre White are all legit blue chip players that can win games on their own and Buffalo has a very deep roster especially on the defensive side . The running game is better than people give credit for and Torrence will inject a little nastiness into the o-line along with the Damien Harris acquisition who could very well overtake Cook. Kyle Allen obviously isn’t beating the Jets or Chiefs, but he is fully capable of stealing a couple Ws against mediocre teams. I like this team and I’m a lot more optimistic than most posters, but people on this board act like Josh Allen is the entire Buffalo Bills. 

[NewEra]

37 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Kyle Allen backing up Josh Allen has been talked about for years on this board.

 

If Kyle Allen starts the Bills become a ball control run based offense. He’s not going to be throwing all over.

 

 

Right….. which is why we should have a backup that can make plays with his legs.  It gives us more ways to win.  It opens up another aspect of offense that the d will have to focus on.  
 

Most backup qbs aren’t going to be winning games with their arms unless they’re being paid more than what we are willing to pay.  The minimum salary guys are generally not good enough to win with their arms.  So if your backup QB isn’t going to be winning with their arm, why not have a guy that can win with their legs?

 

If your backup QB sucks, I’d rather have a guy with mobility. 
 

I’d really like Sam ehlinger as a cheap backup.  I think he could start and accumulate a win or 2 as a starter.  

Edited August 28, 2023 by NewEra

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

As someone who rostered DJ Moore in fantasy multiple seasons, PJ Walker is absolute trash. He’s had 1 decent passing game and that included a 60 yard Hail Mary.

 

Hes not even a better runner than Kyle Allen. I don’t even understand how this is the option you came up with?

 

 

 

I disagree. He is a better runner than Kyle. And that might be how a backup QB has to win for us. 

 

Kyle is trash. There is nothing between him and Barkley. They are both bad. Barkley knows how to play the position but has zero arm. Kyle can actually throw a nice ball but has zero awareness of how to play the position. 

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Come on. 0-3? You really think the Bills roster is that weak? Guys like Von Miller, Milano, Diggs, Tre White are all legit blue chip players that can win games on their own and Buffalo has a very deep roster especially on the defensive side . The running game is better than people give credit for and Torrence will inject a little nastiness into the o-line along with the Damien Harris acquisition who could very well overtake Cook. Kyle Allen obviously isn’t beating the Jets or Chiefs, but he is fully capable of stealing a couple Ws against mediocre teams. I like this team and I’m a lot more optimistic than most posters, but people on this board act like Josh Allen is the entire Buffalo Bills. 

Yes, 0-3 because he really sucks. The QB is the most important position on the team by far.

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Come on. 0-3? You really think the Bills roster is that weak? Guys like Von Miller, Milano, Diggs, Tre White are all legit blue chip players that can win games on their own and Buffalo has a very deep roster especially on the defensive side . The running game is better than people give credit for and Torrence will inject a little nastiness into the o-line along with the Damien Harris acquisition who could very well overtake Cook. Kyle Allen obviously isn’t beating the Jets or Chiefs, but he is fully capable of stealing a couple Ws against mediocre teams. I like this team and I’m a lot more optimistic than most posters, but people on this board act like Josh Allen is the entire Buffalo Bills. 

I think he’d go 0-3 if he were playing any of the top 23 or so teams

[mjt328]

4 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Josh Allen is like 85% of the offense. If he goes down, doesn’t matter who the backup QB is. 

 

It depends on the situation.

 

If Allen goes down for an extended period of time or in a playoff game, we are screwed no matter what.

If Allen goes down against an elite team like Kansas City or Philadelphia, the quality of backup QB probably isn't going to matter.

 

However, if Allen goes down for 1-2 games in the regular season, against a beatable opponent...

Well that could mean the difference between homefield advantage, winning the AFC East, making the postseason, etc.

 

[QLBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Come on. 0-3? You really think the Bills roster is that weak? Guys like Von Miller, Milano, Diggs, Tre White are all legit blue chip players that can win games on their own and Buffalo has a very deep roster especially on the defensive side . The running game is better than people give credit for and Torrence will inject a little nastiness into the o-line along with the Damien Harris acquisition who could very well overtake Cook. Kyle Allen obviously isn’t beating the Jets or Chiefs, but he is fully capable of stealing a couple Ws against mediocre teams. I like this team and I’m a lot more optimistic than most posters, but people on this board act like Josh Allen is the entire Buffalo Bills. 

Kyle Allen can hold things down vs non explosive teams. KC Cinn would be difficult. If  given 4 games I expect the Bills could go 2-2 and keep alive. Not too many backups would do much better. If long term then the Bills are out of it. Purdy is more the SF system and a great find. 

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree. He is a better runner than Kyle. And that might be how a backup QB has to win for us. 

 

Kyle is trash. There is nothing between him and Barkley. They are both bad. Barkley knows how to play the position but has zero arm. Kyle can actually throw a nice ball but has zero awareness of how to play the position. 

Trash, a well positioned evaluation of two veteran NFL qb’s. While I agree the Bills are out of luck if Josh is out long term, I think they could go .500 unless against elite offensive teams. Maybe 5-6 teams have significantly better back ups but that’s about it. 

[Nuncha]

12 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I'm sure Fitz would sign with the Bills if they asked

Last season Fitz said he didn't want to be backup in Buffalo because everywhere he went to be a backup, there was some circumstance that led to him to start for most of the season.  He said he wants to see Josh Allen play so its better if he stays away.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Nuncha

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Kyle Allen can hold things down vs non explosive teams. KC Cinn would be difficult. If  given 4 games I expect the Bills could go 2-2 and keep alive. Not too many backups would do much better. If long term then the Bills are out of it. Purdy is more the SF system and a great find. 

Trash, a well positioned evaluation of two veteran NFL qb’s. While I agree the Bills are out of luck if Josh is out long term, I think they could go .500 unless against elite offensive teams. Maybe 5-6 teams have significantly better back ups but that’s about it. 

 

I've given the reasoned evaluation multiple other places. He has zero pocket awareness, skittish feet and has already demonstrated an ability to blow the timing of a play and walk into pressure. When he sets and throws he isn't terrible. But those plays are less than a third of what he has put on tape pre-season.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree. He is a better runner than Kyle. And that might be how a backup QB has to win for us. 

 

Kyle is trash. There is nothing between him and Barkley. They are both bad. Barkley knows how to play the position but has zero arm. Kyle can actually throw a nice ball but has zero awareness of how to play the position. 

PJ Walker! 😂

 

He has 18 carries for 50 yards. Kyle Allen averages more yards per carry. 
 

If the Bills bring in Walker don’t hide if he starts. He’s absolutely garbage.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

PJ Walker! 😂

 

He has 18 carries for 50 yards. Kyle Allen averages more yards per carry. 
 

If the Bills bring in Walker don’t hide if he starts. He’s absolutely garbage.

 

I won't. Don't you hide if Kyle is utter trash either. 

[balln]

Beane prob should have drafted a legit qb then in rounds 3-5

 

instead he’s drafted moss, DS, Bernard , Williams, shorter , shakir

 

l

[Maynard]

Yes, we all see it. We are in trouble if Kyle has to step in for a few games. Good God, hopefully no more than that!
 

Wouldn’t have reached out on Lance if we were confident. Wonder what we offered as SF wanted him in the AFC? 

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

PJ Walker! 😂

 

He has 18 carries for 50 yards. Kyle Allen averages more yards per carry. 
 

If the Bills bring in Walker don’t hide if he starts. He’s absolutely garbage.

He’s also 4-3 as a starter while playing for a bad team.  

 

Kyle Allen is 2-12 in his last 14 starts.