Training Camp - 8/3 - 9:45am

[Beck Water]

Just now, JayBaller10 said:

They picked Williams with the hopes he’d play MLB this year. When he got in there in the Spring, Beane said it was a little bit too much for him coming from his simple system at Tulane, so they moved him to WLB and will again give him an opportunity to compete at MLB next year, when he has a year under his belt. I agree it seems to be a wasted 3rd round pick this season, but maybe he grows and becomes something. The likelihood is that he doesn’t, but hey, optimism is more fun than pessimism.

 

They said they'd see how much he could handle, but their thinking was they'd start him at WLB, right after the draft.

[Max Fischer]

19 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

You are correct. Don't understand this coaching staff. Elam was the best defender on the field in the playoffs. Was far better than White. 

Let the kid play. 

 

If Elam is not the best player at CB2, he should sit until he figures it out. Elam doesn't deserve the job any more than Jackson and Benford. 

[34-78-83]

Ah, the gripes that have already been addressed resurface each and every practice day here at TBD as if they are brand new!

 

- Elam is very skilled at sticky man coverage and is still picking up his technique playing in zone scheme. No, he is not better than Tre, that was last year while Tre was still working back to 100%. Yes he is more talented than Dane of course, but RIGHT NOW Dane can play the full scheme steadily. Elam will still get plenty of time on the field and hopefully put it all together this season and take the 2 spot.

 

- Williams is a talented player, but probably overwhelmed on having to make all the D calls right now. That's why he is growing behind Milano for the time being. Not a wasted pick... What's wrong is to count on a 3rd rd draft pick to come right in and do all that. Does it happen? Yes. Not with any certainty though. 

 

All NFL teams have areas they aren't elite in. There's a salary cap. The last closest thing to a team without flaws was the 2011 Pats, 2007 Pats and 1991 Redskins. They are extreme outliers. The 2023 Bills have an elite roster as compared to their peers.

 

 

[ddaryl]

Just now, Max Fischer said:

 

If Elam is not the best player at CB2, he should sit until he figures it out. Elam doesn't deserve the job any more than Jackson and Benford. 

 

 

But he does excel in press coverage and there are times we want that. So to sit him just to make a point seems quite backwards.

He may not start some games but start others depending on the opposing team/game plan. Not everything needs ot be black and white

[Matt_In_NH]

2 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

They picked Williams with the hopes he’d play MLB this year. When he got in there in the Spring, Beane said it was a little bit too much for him coming from his simple system at Tulane, so they moved him to WLB and will again give him an opportunity to compete at MLB next year, when he has a year under his belt. I agree it seems to be a wasted 3rd round pick this season, but maybe he grows and becomes something. The likelihood is that he doesn’t, but hey, optimism is more fun than pessimism.

At the initial presser after he was drafted Beane said strictly WLB then a day later they changed it to both.   I think the options at LB were not what the BIlls wanted but took someone they saw some potential in.

[Max Fischer]

Just now, ddaryl said:

 

 

But he does excel in press coverage and there are times we want that. So to sit him just to make a point seems quite backwards.

He may not start some games but start others depending on the opposing team/game plan. Not everything needs ot be black and white

 

I never said, "sit him just to make a point." Sit Elam until the coaches believe he is the best player for the job. Too many fans seem to think it's clear that Elam should have the job by now, which is not at all clear to the coaches. Elam has occasionally played very well, but he's not at all consistent and may need to demonstrate he can be trusted. He may get there by Week 1, but it's not at all a sure thing. 

[Alphadawg7]

18 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

If Dorian Williams is nothing more than a WLB then that pick becomes more of a head scratcher given Milano is signed through 2026.

 

Not really though...one you still need depth behind Milano, and two, that may be where they are playing him now with the intent to try and move him to MLB later.  For example, when they drafted Benford they admitted it was with the thought that he could also possibly move to safety too.  So, just saying we don't know the plan or intent for Dorian yet, he hasn't even gone through a practice with pads yet.  

 

Plus, its more likely they want to see the guys who have more experience there first given its the more difficult and complicated LB position to learn.  And they previously voiced confidence in one of those other guys potentially being Edmunds replacement even before the draft.  

 

So I wouldn't read too much into him playing WLB right now, it's really early and don't think it means too much at this stage on what their long term hope or plan for him is.  

[The Wiz]

 

[boyst]

30 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

Is the sun out?

[ddaryl]

Just now, Max Fischer said:

 

I never said, "sit him just to make a point." Sit Elam until the coaches believe he is the best player for the job. Too many fans seem to think it's clear that Elam should have the job by now, which is not at all clear to the coaches. Elam has occasionally played very well, but he's not at all consistent and may need to demonstrate he can be trusted. He may get there by Week 1, but it's not at all a sure thing. 

 

 

Sit him when? In training camp / preseason...  That just does not make any sense at all.

He may not be CB2 when the season starts but that decision will come after preseason is done. But he will never "sit" he will get plenty of playing time one way or another

[Kmart128]

29 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

If Dorian Williams is nothing more than a WLB then that pick becomes more of a head scratcher given Milano is signed through 2026.

 

They never said he is nothing more than a WLB. Thats just his best position rn. He is a 3rd round rookie and has a lot to learn before handing the reigns of a defense to him. They are putting him in position to succeed right away. And who knows injuries do happen and Milano hasnt been the healthiest player we have had

[Ethan in Cleveland]

16 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Which one? Not which position...which player that was available at that pick should have been taken? Or just take one for the sake of taking one? 

Yes just take one for the sake of taking one. 

Take the best guy on the board for a position of need. A backup WLB is not a need for a team in a championship window. The need was OT and DL. 

Beane did a nice job post draft addressing the DL at both DT and Edge so kudos there. But drafting a guy who had no hope of competeting for the open MLB spot and to backup a guy that never leaves the field makes no sense. 

Despite all the talk of draft grades these GMs are no better at predicting a 2nd round pick vs a 5th round pick who will be a star. Milano is case in point. So take a guy at a position of need and hope it works out. 

Wouldn't everyone feel better if we had another young OT prospect or DE to compete as opposed to a WLB? 

If it was 2002 and they actually played a 4-3 defense it would be different. They play 2 LBs almost exclusively. No need for a backup for Milano with the other linebackers on the roster. 

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Weird about Spector. He got a chance with the 1s and by all accounts played quite well. Now he is permanently relegated to the 3rd team. It seems like Dodson is the leader in the competition but I worry about him. When Edmunds missed the 2nd half of the Minnesota game, Dodson was his replacement and looked awful IMO. It was a big reason Minnesota was suddenly able to move the ball at will.

 

I thought Dodson looked ok against Pitts.  In fact I thought he looked pretty good.  You? 

 

It's worth noting that vs Minn, we were starting Jackson and Benford at CB and Damar Hamlin and Cam Lewis at S.  It was Benford's 2nd game not splitting snaps (Elam was inactive).

 

But, there is a reason they claimed AJ Klein off waivers 5 days after that game.

[Solomon Grundy]

52 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

 

 

 

They're gonna give Bernard EVERY opportunity to succeed come hell or high water

[oldmanfan]

Milano tends to miss some games each year with injuries, so having Williams backing him up there is a good thing.  As for MLB you know Klein can play that spot on running downs, and we'll see between Bernard and Dodson who gets the most snaps.  My guess is on passing downs McD is going to go with a lot of 6 DB/1 LB looks anyway, with Milano on the field. As for 2nd CB, I think we'll see Elam a lot depending on what McD calls.  If they want more one-on-one Elam has that skill set, whereas Jackson and Benford will play more in zone.  having three guys competing for one spot is a lot better than having none.

Milano tends to miss some games each year with injuries, so having Williams backing him up there is a good thing.  As for MLB you know Klein can play that spot on running downs, and we'll see between Bernard and Dodson who gets the most snaps.  My guess is on passing downs McD is going to go with a lot of 6 DB/1 LB looks anyway, with Milano on the field. As for 2nd CB, I think we'll see Elam a lot depending on what McD calls.  If they want more one-on-one Elam has that skill set, whereas Jackson and Benford will play more in zone.  having three guys competing for one spot is a lot better than having none.

[JerseyBills]

1 minute ago, Kmart128 said:

 

They never said he is nothing more than a WLB. Thats just his best position rn. He is a 3rd round rookie and has a lot to learn before handing the reigns of a defense to him. They are putting him in position to succeed right away. And who knows injuries do happen and Milano hasnt been the healthiest player we have had

Yup. Beane said Bernard was overwhelmed last year learning 2 spots and they want to transition Williams at a slower pace

[Max Fischer]

2 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

Sit him when? In training camp / preseason...  That just does not make any sense at all.

He may not be CB2 when the season starts but that decision will come after preseason is done. But he will never "sit" he will get plenty of playing time one way or another

 

Jesus Dude. During the friggin regular season. 

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

 So to sit him just to make a point seems quite backwards.

 

How hard is this to understand?  They aren't sitting him to make a point.  CB2 is a job, and someone is doing the job better than Elam.  

 

And he isn't sitting.  He's playing, but just not full time. 

[FLFan]

8 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

They picked Williams with the hopes he’d play MLB this year. When he got in there in the Spring, Beane said it was a little bit too much for him coming from his simple system at Tulane, so they moved him to WLB and will again give him an opportunity to compete at MLB next year, when he has a year under his belt. I agree it seems to be a wasted 3rd round pick this season, but maybe he grows and becomes something. The likelihood is that he doesn’t, but hey, optimism is more fun than pessimism.

Actually they did not pick him with the intention of playing him at MLB this year. Beane said at the time they were going to start him at WLB. It seems they felt comfortable enough at MLB with the other options to decide not to rush this kid who, while talented, played at a small school and is making a big jump in class.  Fans seemed to be stuck on Williams being drafted to replace Edmunds but Beane never said that. In fact he said the opposite. 

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

At the initial presser after he was drafted Beane said strictly WLB then a day later they changed it to both.   I think the options at LB were not what the BIlls wanted but took someone they saw some potential in.

 

I think he didn't change it, he clarified it because it was being misinterpreted.  He meant the same thing both times - this is the NFL, it's not Tulane, we'll see how much he can handle and if he can handle learning both, he'll learn both but chances are we'll start him at WLB his first season then look at MLB

[MiltonWaddams]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Milano tends to miss some games each year with injuries, so having Williams backing him up there is a good thing.  As for MLB you know Klein can play that spot on running downs, and we'll see between Bernard and Dodson who gets the most snaps.  My guess is on passing downs McD is going to go with a lot of 6 DB/1 LB looks anyway, with Milano on the field. As for 2nd CB, I think we'll see Elam a lot depending on what McD calls.  If they want more one-on-one Elam has that skill set, whereas Jackson and Benford will play more in zone.  having three guys competing for one spot is a lot better than having none.

Milano tends to miss some games each year with injuries, so having Williams backing him up there is a good thing.  As for MLB you know Klein can play that spot on running downs, and we'll see between Bernard and Dodson who gets the most snaps.  My guess is on passing downs McD is going to go with a lot of 6 DB/1 LB looks anyway, with Milano on the field. As for 2nd CB, I think we'll see Elam a lot depending on what McD calls.  If they want more one-on-one Elam has that skill set, whereas Jackson and Benford will play more in zone.  having three guys competing for one spot is a lot better than having none.

Looks like we need to get the papers. Get the papers

[SWATeam]

11 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

They picked Williams with the hopes he’d play MLB this year. When he got in there in the Spring, Beane said it was a little bit too much for him coming from his simple system at Tulane, so they moved him to WLB and will again give him an opportunity to compete at MLB next year, when he has a year under his belt. I agree it seems to be a wasted 3rd round pick this season, but maybe he grows and becomes something. The likelihood is that he doesn’t, but hey, optimism is more fun than pessimism.

Nah, Beane said directly after the draft that they were starting him at WLB- that was always the plan.  That's why there was so much confusion over the pick.  He backtracked on that in the Spring a bit but they've settled on him starting outside.  I think the plan is to slot him in the middle next year after he has some experience under his belt.

[The Wiz]

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

36 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

If Dorian Williams is nothing more than a WLB then that pick becomes more of a head scratcher given Milano is signed through 2026.

Injuries ARE an issue with Milano

[NewEra]

The usual suspects with their early mourning wine and cheese

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

38 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Awesome 3rd round pick on a guy that will probably be a healthy scratch the entire year. What a waste. Should have been a DE, DT, or OT. 

 

Would a 3rd round pick have started at DE, DT, or OT? I don't understand this logic

[MiltonWaddams]

2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Injuries HAVE BEEN an issue with Milano

FIFY because I’m a little stitious

[The Wiz]

 

Brown: 1

Rousseau: 238

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by The Wiz

[Beck Water]

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Yes just take one for the sake of taking one. 

Take the best guy on the board for a position of need. A backup WLB is not a need for a team in a championship window. The need was OT and DL. 

Beane did a nice job post draft addressing the DL at both DT and Edge so kudos there. But drafting a guy who had no hope of competeting for the open MLB spot and to backup a guy that never leaves the field makes no sense. 

Despite all the talk of draft grades these GMs are no better at predicting a 2nd round pick vs a 5th round pick who will be a star. Milano is case in point. So take a guy at a position of need and hope it works out. 

Wouldn't everyone feel better if we had another young OT prospect or DE to compete as opposed to a WLB? 

If it was 2002 and they actually played a 4-3 defense it would be different. They play 2 LBs almost exclusively. No need for a backup for Milano with the other linebackers on the roster. 

"Take one for the sake of taking one" is what brings you guys like Jack Anderson. Tommy Doyle. Even a Spencer Brown. So no, I wouldn't feel better with just some random prospect that may have been taken way too high from where the team had them graded just to get one. 

 

You also do realize that there is football next year too right? That maybe the Bills see longer term potential in a guy like Williams. Perhaps he isn't ready to be the MLB today...but next year could be an entirely different story. Giving the kid a year to learn and get experience on ST, maybe a few snaps on defense here and there is a solid strategy when you want to develop talent. 

[ddaryl]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

How hard is this to understand?  They aren't sitting him to make a point.  CB2 is a job, and someone is doing the job better than Elam.  

 

And he isn't sitting.  He's playing, but just not full time. 

Because how the hell do you get better without reps? He may not win the CB2 job, but he ain't sitting, or being sat. DO we have a CB2 potential candidate that can play press as well as Elam ?  if not then Elam gets the call here. 

WHy is this hard to understand

 

 

7 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Jesus Dude. During the friggin regular season. 

 

 He may not win the CB2 job but you need to articulate your thoughts better. You never even suggested regular season here, which is still a flawed thought. If Elam is not worthy of CB2 when the season is starting then he won't be. But he won't be sitting either he just won't be starting. And I think that will be a game by game decision until Elam shows he can handle zone coverage 

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Injuries ARE an issue with Milano

 

He's missed one game in 2021 and one game in 2022. 

 

How much time do other linebackers miss?

[Bangarang]

11 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

He is a rookie from not a big time program.  They don’t want to overload him by having him learn 2 positions- and a rookie at MLB calling defense in the huddle is risky.  Too early to panic on a rookie late 3rd round pick.

Im not panicking nor did I expect him to be our starting MLB right away, if at all. I just don’t see a path for him to get on the field and contribute outside of ST.

[The Wiz]

 

 

[Beck Water]

Just now, The Wiz said:

 

 

That's a good sign, but it's also not a good sign that it's worthy of remark.

 

[The Wiz]

 

[wppete]

2 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

Really hope Shane Ray makes this team and shines. Trading Epanesa or Boogie would and getting more assets would be good. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

I think Shane Ray is making a path to make this final 53. Can't wait to see him play some preseason snaps. I think we may have stumbled onto a player that is hungry with a lot to prove...and being here with his friend Von is going to help as well. 

[ALLinALLEN]

Shane Ray is a really interesting/intriguing situation....would be awesome if he could make the team and actually impact the season at all. 

[The Wiz]