FA Cameron Fleming RT Why don't we go get him?

[LABILLBACKER]

49 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I keep hearing this Narrative that Beane and McD are stubborn and stuck with Brown, yet no one has any proof, any voice conversation or video of them saying this.. So, to me because of what I just said, It feels to me like a false narrative. The fact is right now he is as good as Dawkins as you say then at 1.8 mil he would be an easy decision to add to the roster yes? 

Dude first of all I'm agreeing with you. I don't trust Brown's ability. He's been a 62 and 51 pff rated RT for 2 years regardless how you feel about pff. We do need to bring in competition desperately at RT.  And if you're waiting for some video, documentation proof,  you'll be waiting a long time. I don't know if it's Fleming or someone else but I would welcome someone other than Q pushing Brown.  Sooner than you might like the same will go for Dawkins. Unfortunately I think the FA spending is over. I hope I'm wrong but I think it's on to the draft.

[PrimeTime101]

40 minutes ago, Yantha said:

 

We want to improve the line, and my point is that this guy would just be a lateral move without the chance for improvement.  I'm hoping we get a starter at RT, and Brown becomes the backup (again, with upside).

 

Maybe he'd be a great candidate for a move to RG though, but we already added two OG's.  I'm not opposed to something like that, if he's a vet minimum kind of guy.  

sometimes you need to make lateral moves in order to survive bad cap situations. 

6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Dude first of all I'm agreeing with you. I don't trust Brown's ability. He's been a 62 and 51 pff rated RT for 2 years regardless how you feel about pff. We do need to bring in competition desperately at RT.  And if you're waiting for some video, documentation proof,  you'll be waiting a long time. I don't know if it's Fleming or someone else but I would welcome someone other than Q pushing Brown.  Sooner than you might like the same will go for Dawkins. Unfortunately I think the FA spending is over. I hope I'm wrong but I think it's on to the draft.

i got so many against this idea i miss read your original post. Thanks... I hope your wrong too ha ha... we will see

[Simon Says]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

To the bolded, this is how I feel and I feel like I am being slammed for it.  Is this not a win now team? does this GM like drafting defense in early rounds? 1-2? Why not plug what many feel is a hole at RT? IDK if it would turn him off or not.. I think at that age at this point.. its just about getting the money and finishing his career on a strong note. 

Have you noticed what might be a trend with the Bills free agent signings so far? Young FAs signing their second NFL contract. 

What do you think he would cost? Beane likely will only pay close to minimum so as not to ness up the comp picks 

[Einstein's Dog]

45 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I'm going to disagree even though I agree.  It does bother me that Beane tries to build the OL with jags.  

 

Nonetheless, a GM who produces 4 consecutive 10+ winning seasons is, in fact, good at his job.  Either that, or his Head Coach is a freaking genius.  

I don't think Beane has tried to build the OL with jags.  There has been 1st rounder Dawkins, highest paid Center Morse, 3rd rounder S Brown who had elite level RAS.  They also tried 2nd rounder C Ford, and last year spent $6M on Saffold and matched Bates' offer.  

 

It may not have worked as planned but I don't think there has been this big intentional area of neglect that people seem to make it out to be.

[BarleyNY]

26 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

sometimes you need to make lateral moves in order to survive bad cap situations. 

This is such a poor excuse. Beane and McD decided where they wanted to spend on this team. They chose to address positions other than OT and roll with Brown and Quessenberry. The same holds true for the positions they’ve addressed in the draft. It is what it is.

[HOUSE]

I am broke and so are the Bills

[Solomon Grundy]

4 hours ago, mrags said:

Because Beane and the Bills brass have already expressed their belief in Brown and regardless what many fans think, he is their guy at RT moving forward. 

Sad... but true

[MrEpsYtown]

Fleming is a journeyman jag. I question whether he is even better than Quesenberry. Brown could be something special, is cheap, and still

young. 
 

I would take a 1.77 million dollar flyer on Isaiah Wynn. Young guy in his second contract needs a change of scenery and a chance to prove himself. But Fleming is a no for me. Fleming was interesting 5 years ago. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[mrags]

Just now, Solomon Grundy said:

Sad... but true

Yes. Exactly. 

[BarleyNY]

36 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't think Beane has tried to build the OL with jags.  There has been 1st rounder Dawkins, highest paid Center Morse, 3rd rounder S Brown who had elite level RAS.  They also tried 2nd rounder C Ford, and last year spent $6M on Saffold and matched Bates' offer.  

 

It may not have worked as planned but I don't think there has been this big intentional area of neglect that people seem to make it out to be.

Dawkins was a 2nd round pick, but your point largely stands. Paying Saffold $6M was sheer stupidity - and I said so at the time. Matching the Bates offer wasn’t as bad of a move, but overpaying him was still pretty bad. Morse was an overpay too, but they kinda had to do that at the time.

 

Putting themselves in a position where they had to count on a player as raw as Brown was dumb too. He was the 3rd OT his rookie year. Last season his competition for RT was Quessenberry. The we-didn’t-expect-him-to-have-to-play garbage from Beane is ridiculous. There’s a good chance that any 3rd OT will have to play a lot of meaningful snaps. Having poor competition (Q) pretty much seals it.

 

I don’t know how McGovern will work out, but OT needs some real help. Dawkins is above average, Brown is below, Q is well below and Doyle shouldn’t be in the NFL. That means that at present we are a Dawkins injury away from hot garbage at OT and Allen getting pummeled by DEs. Beane has to do better than that. 

 

14 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I am broke and so are the Bills

If you need some quick cash I have an acquaintance in Youngstown that needs a package hand delivered to New Jersey. I hear the job pays pretty well.

Edited April 3, 2023 by BarleyNY

[1st&ten]

Hopefully the Bills are serious about drafting a really good tackle this year--someone who could start at RT & maybe move to LT next year & then move Dawkins to guard.

[BillsFanForever19]

We signed our RT FA - it's David Quessenberry. They decided with what they could pay and the options that are out there that he was who they wanted.

 

Beane was never going to outright replace Spencer Brown. He's consistently said he feels he had a down year due to not having a Training Camp after having Back surgery and was dinged up throughout the year.

 

So a low level Free Agent and a mid round pick was always my guess for what his competition would be. I'd be surprised if they Drafted a Tackle in Round 1 because to me that's Beane giving up on Brown, which I don't think he's ready to do this season.

 

Expect an OT somewhere between Rounds 2-4 to join Brown and Quessenberry. There will be a competition. One will start, one will be our backup Swing Tackle, and one will replace Tommy Doyle.

 

27 minutes ago, 1st&ten said:

Hopefully the Bills are serious about drafting a really good tackle this year--someone who could start at RT & maybe move to LT next year & then move Dawkins to guard.

 

Dawkins isn't moving to Guard. He's being paid good LT money. He's a 28 year old 2 time Pro Bowler that could play LT elsewhere.

 

We're not going to pay him what we're paying him to play Guard and he's not going to take a big pay cut and a demotion to Guard willingly.

 

He's locked in at LT this season and he'll either be the LT in 2024 (the last year of his deal) or he'll be released or traded to play LT elsewhere.

Edited April 3, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[SoCal Deek]

21 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

We signed our RT FA - it's David Quessenberry. They decided with what they could pay and the options that are out there that he was who they wanted.

 

Beane was never going to outright replace Spencer Brown. He's consistently said he feels he had a down year due to not having a Training Camp after having Back surgery and was dinged up throughout the year.

 

So a low level Free Agent and a mid round pick was always my guess for what his competition would be. I'd be surprised if they Drafted a Tackle in Round 1 because to me that's Beane giving up on Brown, which I don't think he's ready to do this season.

 

Expect an OT somewhere between Rounds 2-4 to join Brown and Quessenberry. There will be a competition. One will start, one will be our backup Swing Tackle, and one will replace Tommy Doyle.

 

 

Dawkins isn't moving to Guard. He's being paid good LT money. He's a 28 year old 2 time Pro Bowler that could play LT elsewhere.

 

We're not going to pay him what we're paying him to play Guard and he's not going to take a big pay cut and a demotion to Guard willingly.

 

He's locked in at LT this season and he'll either be the LT in 2024 (the last year of his deal) or he'll be released or traded to play LT elsewhere.

If LT and RT and swing T are already on the roster then I assume you think we’re drafting a Guard or two? 

[BillsFanForever19]

8 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

If LT and RT and swing T are already on the roster then I assume you think we’re drafting a Guard or two? 

 

We usually keep 9-10 OL on the 53. Generally, 4-5 OT's. We have Brown, Quessenberry, and Doyle (not to mention Dawkins locked in at LT). My guess is we Draft our 4th OT around the same area we Drafted Brown to compete with Brown and at least replace Tommy Doyle. 

 

As for Guard, we have Connor McGovern locked in at LG. I think Ryan Bates is safer at RG than most give him credit for. But it wouldn't shock me to see him usurped by David Edwards or a high Draft Pick.

 

I think a 1st Round OG is more likely than a 1st Round OT, but I still don't think that's very likely. I believe Round 1 will be a WR, LB, TE, or DL. 

 

But I digress, I think we'll Draft 1 IOL. We have McGovern, Bates, Edwards, and Boettger right now (not to mention Morse locked in at Center). We generally keep 5 Interior Lineman. I think McG, Bates, and Edwards (and of course Morse at Center) are locked in. 

 

So yeah, 1 OT and 1 IOL between Rounds 2 and 6.

Edited April 4, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[BillsNutHawaii]

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

accept they not overlooking the OL this year. What we did in FA proves that fact

used the wrong word in the middle of 3 nephews having a hissy fit. God I love babysitting lol. I did not mean that word. thanks i will edit. 

 

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

accept they not overlooking the OL this year. What we did in FA proves that fact

used the wrong word in the middle of 3 nephews having a hissy fit. God I love babysitting lol. I did not mean that word. thanks i will edit. 

In my opinion, acquiring 2 "mid-level" free agents, plus the annual drafting of Offensive Lineman in the 6th round, is in essence "overlooking" the O-Line.  Wish our team would draft O-Line like the Eagles do.  Nevertheless, I get your point, but what our team is doing with the O-Line just doesn't resonate with me.  

[BillsFanForever19]

7 hours ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

 

In my opinion, acquiring 2 "mid-level" free agents, plus the annual drafting of Offensive Lineman in the 6th round, is in essence "overlooking" the O-Line.  Wish our team would draft O-Line like the Eagles do.  Nevertheless, I get your point, but what our team is doing with the O-Line just doesn't resonate with me.  

 

What if they take 1 OT and 1 IOL between Rounds 2 and 4, in addition to McGovern, Edwards, and re-signing Quessenberry and Boettger? This is my expectation.

 

Fact is, between our cap situation and what Beane has said about the OL postseason - the idea that we were going to completely overhaul the OL was just wishful thinking from certain fans.

 

He still has faith in Spencer Brown and there is merit to the idea that Back Surgery, the lack of an offseason, and being dinged up stunted his ability and growth. So outright replacing him was something he was never interested in.

 

You may look at McGovern as "mid level". But with how quickly he was signed and especially for what he was signed for says to me he was valued by our scouts and scouts around the league. We had to pay what we had to pay because there was competition.

 

Beane isn't sitting on his hands and doing nothing. He's covering his bases, filling the holes, and bringing in competition - and I'm expecting more in term of Draft Picks. But we were never going to overhaul the line and bring in Orlando Brown or Ben Powers level FA's. We couldn't, even if he wanted to.

 

Given we were able to get 24 million under the cap with 24 FA's, I think he's done a good job addressing the OL so far. 1 more OT and 1 more OG in the first 4 Rounds and I think he'll have done an even better job and maybe the best he could.

Edited April 4, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, Herb Nightly said:

Have you noticed what might be a trend with the Bills free agent signings so far? Young FAs signing their second NFL contract. 

What do you think he would cost? Beane likely will only pay close to minimum so as not to ness up the comp picks 

31 year old won't mess up the comps

2 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

This is such a poor excuse. Beane and McD decided where they wanted to spend on this team. They chose to address positions other than OT and roll with Brown and Quessenberry. The same holds true for the positions they’ve addressed in the draft. It is what it is.

yep

53 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

 

In my opinion, acquiring 2 "mid-level" free agents, plus the annual drafting of Offensive Lineman in the 6th round, is in essence "overlooking" the O-Line.  Wish our team would draft O-Line like the Eagles do.  Nevertheless, I get your point, but what our team is doing with the O-Line just doesn't resonate with me.  

Me either

Edited April 3, 2023 by PrimeTime101

[Simon Says]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

We usually keep 9-10 OL on the 53. Generally, 4-5 OT's. We have Brown, Quessenberry, and Doyle (not counting Dawkins locked in at LT). My guess is we Draft our 4th OT around the same area we Drafted Brown to compete with Brown and at least replace Tommy Doyle. 

 

As for Guard, we have Connor McGovern locked in at LG. I think Ryan Bates is safer at RG than most give him credit for. But it wouldn't shock me to see him usurped by David Edwards or a high Draft Pick.

 

I think a 1st Round OG is more likely than a 1st Round OT, but I still don't think that's very likely. I believe Round 1 will be a WR, LB, TE, or DL. 

 

But I digress, I think we'll Draft 1 IOL. We have McGovern, Bates, Edwards, and Boettger right now (not counting Morse kicked in at Center). We generally keep 4-5 Interior Lineman. I think McG, Bates, and Edwards (and of course Morse at Center) are locked in. 

 

So yeah, 1 OT and 1 IOL between Rounds 2 and 6.

Just a side note....Edwards was a RT in college

[BillsFanForever19]

18 minutes ago, Herb Nightly said:

Just a side note....Edwards was a RT in college

 

Good to have flexibility if we're in a bind, but Edwards is a Guard. 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't think Beane has tried to build the OL with jags.  There has been 1st rounder Dawkins, highest paid Center Morse, 3rd rounder S Brown who had elite level RAS.  They also tried 2nd rounder C Ford, and last year spent $6M on Saffold and matched Bates' offer.  

 

It may not have worked as planned but I don't think there has been this big intentional area of neglect that people seem to make it out to be.

Unless RAS means " Really Ass Slow" feet then yes he is elite.  Just because your dumb enough to waste 6M on a scrub doesn't mean he's not a jag.  

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, GreggTX said:

He's not very good. You can't build a good OL by signing only low quality linemen. At some point you need to sign good or elite linemen. We have too many low quality offensive linemen already.

I think they have tried, but not been successful..

 

They drafted Cody Ford in Round 2

They drafted Spencer Brown in Round 3 

They have drafted a bunch of other folks in 4-5-6 rounds

 

Elite linemen are simply NOT available in FA.  (the word being Elite).  Teams don't let such players hit FA.  The only people who hit FA are the likes of Stafford and Quesenbery's.  

 

The question is:  Is a player ELITE because what he did in college and where he was drafted that makes them successful ?   If so, the Bills Coaching staff should be blamed for not making ELITE OL from their draft picks.   They have returned zero in

    *. Tremaine Edmunds 

    *. Ed Oliver 

    *. Groot 

    *. Elam

 

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

The Bills overall evaluation of talent is questionable at best.  And especially poor on both lines.  That they think that Spencer Brown is good enough to be a starter on a Super Bowl contender is curious at best, and down right negligent at worst?  Fortunately we hit on an amazing QB.  Because if not for Josh Allen, McBeane would have been working for LL Beane by now.

 

 

"... overalll evaluation of talent if questionable at best"? Nonsense. The Bills went 13-3 last year. They're one of the best teams in the league. And while, yes, a lot of that is Allen, no, it's not all Allen, the team around him is very good.

 

Yeah, Allen is a big part of it. But equally you can say the same thing for the Chiefs, Bengals, and on and on, really. Of course you need and excellent QB to compete. But you also need a good lineup.

 

After some of the kvetching that goes on here, including yours, you'd swear they were a 3-13 team.

 

Far from perfect, they're still damn good at talent evaluation, though they still need to get better (though every team in the league can and will say the same thing).

 

We're likely to see RT competition addressed at some point, whether in the draft or in later FA. Certainly Brown wasn't good enough last year. But people who want to pretend that a guy with back surgery recovery and no real off-season before his second year was absolutely playing at his ceiling are just kidding themselves.

 

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I think they have tried, but not been successful..

 

They drafted Cody Ford in Round 2

They drafted Spencer Brown in Round 3 

They have drafted a bunch of other folks in 4-5-6 rounds

 

Elite linemen are simply NOT available in FA.  (the word being Elite).  Teams don't let such players hit FA.  The only people who hit FA are the likes of Stafford and Quesenbery's.  

 

The question is:  Is a player ELITE because what he did in college and where he was drafted that makes them successful ?   If so, the Bills Coaching staff should be blamed for not making ELITE OL from their draft picks.   They have returned zero in

    *. Tremaine Edmunds 

    *. Ed Oliver 

    *. Groot 

    *. Elam

 

 

 

Up till the end, reasonable. but to think they "returned zero" in Edmunds, Oliver, Groot and Elam is flagrant twaddle. Those were/are three mainstays of an excellent team and one future mainstay in Elam who was not there yet last year but shows every sign of being very good in the very near future if not immediately.

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Utah John]

Would signing him affect the third round pick Beane wants to get for the loss of Edmunds?

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, Utah John said:

Would signing him affect the third round pick Beane wants to get for the loss of Edmunds?

no. 

[ProcessTruster]

Brown will be RT this year.   He'll be better than last year.   

[DCofNC]

18 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I wouldn't call the Bills talent evaluation "questionable at best."   The Bills have won 10+ games four consecutive years - a feat the franchise has accomplished only once before in its long history.   Apparently Beane isn't fielding JUCO kids out there.  And you can't discount Allen - Beane maneuvered and got the guy he wanted.  He deserves credit for that.  With an above average W-L record, the evidence indicates the Bills are above-average in talent evaluation and acquisition.  

 

You say they think Brown is good enough to be a starter on a Super Bowl team.  I'm guessing you are not a board-certified mind-reader.   What GMs and HCs say in public and what they think in private are two very different things.  I personally have no idea of what they actually think of Brown.  

Clearly, Beane has made some mistakes - as all GMs do (I agree he's neglected the OL).  And just as clearly, he hasn't been good enough (yet?) to build a SB-caliber roster.  But suggesting that he'd be working for LL Beane now if not for Josh is a nice play on words but tremendously overblown.  Beane is good at his job.  The only question is he good enough?

 

 

If Allen had busted, this whole regime would be gone.  Without Allen this is a 6-7 win team AT BEST.

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"... overalll evaluation of talent if questionable at best"? Nonsense. The Bills went 13-3 last year. They're one of the best teams in the league. And while, yes, a lot of that is Allen, no, it's not all Allen, the team around him is very good.

 

Yeah, Allen is a big part of it. But equally you can say the same thing for the Chiefs, Bengals, and on and on, really. Of course you need and excellent QB to compete. But you also need a good lineup.

 

After some of the kvetching that goes on here, including yours, you'd swear they were a 3-13 team.

 

Far from perfect, they're still damn good at talent evaluation, though they still need to get better (though every team in the league can and will say the same thing).

 

We're likely to see RT competition addressed at some point, whether in the draft or in later FA. Certainly Brown wasn't good enough last year. But people who want to pretend that a guy with back surgery recovery and no real off-season before his second year was absolutely playing at his ceiling are just kidding themselves.

 

 

 

Up till the end, reasonable. but to think they "returned zero" in Edmunds, Oliver, Groot and Elam is flagrant twaddle. Those were/are three mainstays of an excellent team and one future mainstay in Elam who was not there yet last year but shows every sign of being very good in the very near future if not immediately.

 

Homer much?

[nosejob]

I'd actually love it if they signed Fluker. If he's better than Brown ( which I would think) then Brown can go to swing and keep working on his game and we can get Qberry the Hell out of here. Fluker looks like he's gonna be a beast for someone....and Brown can learn from him.

Edited April 4, 2023 by nosejob

[Fan in Chicago]

17 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

If Allen had busted, this whole regime would be gone.  Without Allen this is a 6-7 win team AT BEST.

 

Which would be the record reminiscent of the Whaley years. For all the sizzle, "process" and talks for building a roster, the only material difference is that McBeane selected Allen

[RyanC883]

15 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't think Beane has tried to build the OL with jags.  There has been 1st rounder Dawkins, highest paid Center Morse, 3rd rounder S Brown who had elite level RAS.  They also tried 2nd rounder C Ford, and last year spent $6M on Saffold and matched Bates' offer.  

 

It may not have worked as planned but I don't think there has been this big intentional area of neglect that people seem to make it out to be.

 

not neglect, just incompetence like with the DL, which ironically contributed to missing on all pro C/Gs. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

If Allen had busted, this whole regime would be gone.  Without Allen this is a 6-7 win team AT BEST.

Homer much?

 

They did only allow 286 points - which if you add in a 3rd game at average they were probably 2nd in the league in points allowed.  Despite the team being 31st in giveaways on offense.  Despite major injuries to Miller, White, Hyde.  They were by no means perfect, but they were still a top 10 defense. 

 

Yards per play 5.1 - top 10.

27 takeaways - Top 5

Opposing NY/A 5.6 - which is tied for 4th

Rush Y/A 4.3 - Tied for 11th

Scoring % allowed 31% - 3rd in the league

Turnover % 14.3% - Which is 5th

3rd down % 37.6% - 7th in the league

Red zone 44.9$ - 2nd in the league

 

Denver's defense was very good at a lot of things on defense and they still finished pretty poorly so i assume its possible, but that would say that without Allen we would have the worst offense in the league.  Possible - but if we don't have Allen we i assume have... someone else whos relatively starting caliber.  

[Einstein's Dog]

56 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

not neglect, just incompetence like with the DL, which ironically contributed to missing on all pro C/Gs. 

"Incompetence" is rather harsh wording.  The OL needs to get better, and Saffold was a miss.  I was disappointed with Kromer, thought his addition would really show and I didn't see it.

 

As for the DL, when healthy the DL is one of the best the Bills have ever had.

[BigAl2526]

Seems like a reasonable signing to make.

[RyanC883]

5 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

"Incompetence" is rather harsh wording.  The OL needs to get better, and Saffold was a miss.  I was disappointed with Kromer, thought his addition would really show and I didn't see it.

 

As for the DL, when healthy the DL is one of the best the Bills have ever had.

 

I don't know.  The DL seems to be a victim of poor drafting/asset allocation: drafting Groot in the 1st (a decent player, a number 2 DE, not an impact guy by himself), then Basham, another #2 DE, a year after drafting AJ are huge misses.  

[DCofNC]

11 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

They did only allow 286 points - which if you add in a 3rd game at average they were probably 2nd in the league in points allowed.  Despite the team being 31st in giveaways on offense.  Despite major injuries to Miller, White, Hyde.  They were by no means perfect, but they were still a top 10 defense. 

 

Yards per play 5.1 - top 10.

27 takeaways - Top 5

Opposing NY/A 5.6 - which is tied for 4th

Rush Y/A 4.3 - Tied for 11th

Scoring % allowed 31% - 3rd in the league

Turnover % 14.3% - Which is 5th

3rd down % 37.6% - 7th in the league

Red zone 44.9$ - 2nd in the league

 

Denver's defense was very good at a lot of things on defense and they still finished pretty poorly so i assume its possible, but that would say that without Allen we would have the worst offense in the league.  Possible - but if we don't have Allen we i assume have... someone else whos relatively starting caliber.  

Guess you weren’t around for the 20 years before Allen huh?  This team is a dumpster fire without him. 

12 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

 

Which would be the record reminiscent of the Whaley years. For all the sizzle, "process" and talks for building a roster, the only material difference is that McBeane selected Allen

The two are not that different at all.

[John from Riverside]

17 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Guess you weren’t around for the 20 years before Allen huh?  This team is a dumpster fire without him. 

The two are not that different at all.

Even if what you said is true, the mere fact that he did select Alan gives him a lot of latitude
 

It would take a total collapse for our executor of the year GM to be going anywhere

[DCofNC]

10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Even if what you said is true, the mere fact that he did select Alan gives him a lot of latitude
 

It would take a total collapse for our executor of the year GM to be going anywhere

I know, which is why I wouldn’t actually mind a complete collapse.  This system isn’t good enough to win it all. 

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I know, which is why I wouldn’t actually mind a complete collapse.  This system isn’t good enough to win it all. 

So you’re actually rooting for the bills to lose
 

Got it

[DCofNC]

16 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

So you’re actually rooting for the bills to lose
 

Got it

Tough place to be in, I want them to win it all, I’m also quite sure this regime will not get it done.  So it may require losing to finally win.

[John from Riverside]

21 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Tough place to be in, I want them to win it all, I’m also quite sure this regime will not get it done.  So it may require losing to finally win.

Anybody that roots for losses it’s not a true fan

 

You need to check your priorities

[DCofNC]

11 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Anybody that roots for losses it’s not a true fan

 

You need to check your priorities

Priorities are winning a CHAMPIONSHIP, rigors season is just entertainment.  This regime is not going to get it done.