FA Cameron Fleming RT Why don't we go get him?

[PrimeTime101]

This is a good RT that could start for us today, had a great year for Denver last year... at 31 years old he would be a cheap fill in for 1 year till we resolve it in a future draft. At the least, he will compete with Brown...

[mrags]

Because Beane and the Bills brass have already expressed their belief in Brown and regardless what many fans think, he is their guy at RT moving forward. 

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, mrags said:

Because Beane and the Bills brass have already expressed their belief in Brown and regardless what many fans think, he is their guy at RT moving forward. 

That's an assumption not fact. They specifically said this off-season they were going to look over every position this year to see how we could improve (within reason)

Edited April 3, 2023 by PrimeTime101

[Warriorspikes51]

I want DJ Fluker 

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

That's an assumption not fact. They specifically said this off-season they were going to overlook every position this year to see how we could improve (within reason)

They say that every year. I’m just reading the writing on the wall. They aren’t going to upgrade the RT spot. Unless someone falls to them in the draft they weren’t expecting to be there and they can’t pass it up. 
 

we can wish and hope all we want, but consistently this FO has disappointed us when it comes to what we think they need as far as competition and what they actually do. Look no further than being disappointed again. Just saying. 

[papazoid]

he'd make a good swing tackle...had starts at both sides last year

 

about as good as dawkins and way better than quisenberry and brown.

 

if at $1.9 mil .....a no brainer

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, mrags said:

They say that every year. I’m just reading the writing on the wall. They aren’t going to upgrade the RT spot. Unless someone falls to them in the draft they weren’t expecting to be there and they can’t pass it up. 
 

we can wish and hope all we want, but consistently this FO has disappointed us when it comes to what we think they need as far as competition and what they actually do. Look no further than being disappointed again. Just saying. 

that is an assumption sir. for 1.1 million for 1 year why would you NOT bring in competition? at the very least, solid depth? IF they feel they SO good at RT then why would they even have T anywhere on their radar?

 

Guess we agree to disagree on this one  

Just now, papazoid said:

he'd make a good swing tackle...had starts at both sides last year

 

about as good as dawkins and way better than quisenberry and brown.

 

if at $1.9 mil .....a no brainer

THANK YOU!!!    jeez... no brainer spot on..  

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

that is an assumption sir. for 1.1 million for 1 year why would you NOT bring in competition? at the very least, solid depth? IF they feel they SO good at RT then why would they even have T anywhere on their radar?

 

Guess we agree to disagree on this one  

THANK YOU!!!    jeez... no brainer spot on..  

if he was so good last year, why would he sign for 1.1M?  Quessenberry got 1.8 and he stunk. 

[Yantha]

7 penalties and 6 sacks allowed.

 

Brown was 6 and 4 respectively, and it could be argued has more upside.

[Paup 1995MVP]

4 minutes ago, mrags said:

They say that every year. I’m just reading the writing on the wall. They aren’t going to upgrade the RT spot. Unless someone falls to them in the draft they weren’t expecting to be there and they can’t pass it up. 
 

we can wish and hope all we want, but consistently this FO has disappointed us when it comes to what we think they need as far as competition and what they actually do. Look no further than being disappointed again. Just saying. 

The Bills overall evaluation of talent is questionable at best.  And especially poor on both lines.  That they think that Spencer Brown is good enough to be a starter on a Super Bowl contender is curious at best, and down right negligent at worst?  Fortunately we hit on an amazing QB.  Because if not for Josh Allen, McBeane would have been working for LL Beane by now.

[mrags]

Just now, PrimeTime101 said:

that is an assumption sir. for 1.1 million for 1 year why would you NOT bring in competition? at the very least, solid depth? IF they feel they SO good at RT then why would they even have T anywhere on their radar?

 

Guess we agree to disagree on this one  

FYI, I never said I wouldn’t bring someone in. I think they should. Personally I’d take someone to compete with Dawkins for LT and the loser goes to LG. At least on paper that sounds great, but Dawkins would be much better suited at G imo. And…. He’s coming to the end of his contract. Only 2 more years left I believe. I’d be searching for his replacement at the very least. 
 

and they would be foolish to not even be looking at all the options available to them in every draft and FA. You don’t completely discount any position just because you have someone there already. You may find someone completely better. But that’s the argument for Best Player Available with each pick vs drafting for need. 
 

like I said, I’m not disagreeing that we should be looking at every option. We should. I’m simply stating that I’m following my gut that Beane will not replace or find someone to compete with Brown this year in FA or draft. UNLESS, someone falls to them at a spot they never imagined would happen. 
 

Either way, neither of us can be proven right on what the FO is thinking. Unless youve got Beanes phone number and want to give him a text and see what he plans on doing. 

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

if he was so good last year, why would he sign for 1.1M?  Quessenberry got 1.8 and he stunk. 

Thank you 

1 minute ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

The Bills overall evaluation of talent is questionable at best.  And especially poor on both lines.  That they think that Spencer Brown is good enough to be a starter on a Super Bowl contender is curious at best, and down right negligent at worst?  Fortunately we hit on an amazing QB.  Because if not for Josh Allen, McBeane would have been working for LL Beane by now.

100%. Again, I’m not saying what I think they should do. I’m simply stating what I think is going through their heads and what I expect them to do. 
 

If you think we’re going OT, look to be disappointed is all I’m saying.  

5 minutes ago, Yantha said:

7 penalties and 6 sacks allowed.

 

Brown was 6 and 4 respectively, and it could be argued has more upside.

Brown is young. And this guy is 31. I’m positive he has more upside. 

[PrimeTime101]

25 minutes ago, NewEra said:

if he was so good last year, why would he sign for 1.1M?  Quessenberry got 1.8 and he stunk. 

he asking between 1.1  1.8m. you bring up a good point.. that being said I ask? Why not?

[RiotAct]

46 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

That's an assumption not fact. They specifically said this off-season they were going to overlook every position this year to see how we could improve (within reason)

seems like they’ve overlooked quite a few positions already

[PrimeTime101]

45 minutes ago, Yantha said:

7 penalties and 6 sacks allowed.

 

Brown was 6 and 4 respectively, and it could be argued has more upside.

Your looking at 2 stats and think that one is better over 2 stats? are you kidding me? While I agree Brown has more upside, this is about competition and depth yes? 

[hondo in seattle]

38 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

The Bills overall evaluation of talent is questionable at best.  And especially poor on both lines.  That they think that Spencer Brown is good enough to be a starter on a Super Bowl contender is curious at best, and down right negligent at worst?  Fortunately we hit on an amazing QB.  Because if not for Josh Allen, McBeane would have been working for LL Beane by now.

 

I wouldn't call the Bills talent evaluation "questionable at best."   The Bills have won 10+ games four consecutive years - a feat the franchise has accomplished only once before in its long history.   Apparently Beane isn't fielding JUCO kids out there.  And you can't discount Allen - Beane maneuvered and got the guy he wanted.  He deserves credit for that.  With an above average W-L record, the evidence indicates the Bills are above-average in talent evaluation and acquisition.  

 

You say they think Brown is good enough to be a starter on a Super Bowl team.  I'm guessing you are not a board-certified mind-reader.   What GMs and HCs say in public and what they think in private are two very different things.  I personally have no idea of what they actually think of Brown.  

Clearly, Beane has made some mistakes - as all GMs do (I agree he's neglected the OL).  And just as clearly, he hasn't been good enough (yet?) to build a SB-caliber roster.  But suggesting that he'd be working for LL Beane now if not for Josh is a nice play on words but tremendously overblown.  Beane is good at his job.  The only question is he good enough?

 

 

[GreggTX]

He's not very good. You can't build a good OL by signing only low quality linemen. At some point you need to sign good or elite linemen. We have too many low quality offensive linemen already.

[billsfan89]

I wouldn’t hate the depth move but I do agree with some of the other posters that the front office has a belief in Brown at RT for some reason…

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

This is a good RT that could start for us today, had a great year for Denver last year... at 31 years old he would be a cheap fill in for 1 year till we resolve it in a future draft. At the least, he will compete with Brown...

Because this staff loves Spencer Brown. 

 

The RAS, the lack of time on job equates to untapped upside in their minds.

 

The Bills acquired an adequate LT and Center. Since 2021, the blueprint on the Offensive Line is surround with cheaper, low-end starters.

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Max Fischer]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

That's an assumption not fact. They specifically said this off-season they were going to overlook every position this year to see how we could improve (within reason)

 

Why are you assuming they have not talk to that guy? Why are you assuming that the guy wants to come to Buffalo for the money available?

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, Max Fischer said:

 

Why are you assuming they have not talk to that guy? Why are you assuming that the guy wants to come to Buffalo for the money available?

I have not assumed anything of what you say here. Nothing of what you said in this sentence is in my words.  Go back and read WHAT i quoted. your alone in right field with no balls headed your way. 

[Max Fischer]

3 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I have not assumed anything of what you say here. Nothing of what you said in this sentence is in my words.  Go back and read WHAT i quoted. your alone in right field with no balls headed your way. 

Good Lord. Another terrible thread.

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

22 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Because this staff loves Spencer Brown. 

 

The RAS, the lack of time on job equates to untapped upside in their minds.

 

The Bills acquired an adequate LT and Center. Since 2021, the blueprint on the Offensive Line is surround with cheaper, low-end starters.

 

 

 

so next year Morse will be paid the 10th highest at Center. (as of now) Dawkins is 10th highest paid at LT  so I would argue about us just going cheap with low end spenders. by the way. This guy would be considered a low end spender at 1.8 mil

2 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

Good Lord. Another terrible thread.

 

 

Why because I suggested we bring in a guy that could start and at the least could be a really good swing depth T. ? stop..  You said I said things I never said and I called you on it and now its a horrible thread. good for you. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by PrimeTime101

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

so next year Morse will be paid the 10th highest at Center. (as of now) Dawkins is 10th highest paid at LT  so I would argue about us just going cheap with low end spenders. by the way. This guy would be considered a low end spender at 1.8 mil

Why because I suggested we bring in a guy that could start and at the least could be a really good swing depth T. ? stop..  You said I said things I never said and I called you on it and now its a horrible thread. good for you. 

That's why I specifically said they found their LT and Center and "surround(ed)" them with low-end FAs and starters. 

 

But Feliciano, Daryl Williams, Boettger, Bates, Doyle, Brown, Saffold, Van Roten, Quesenberry, Hart - these guys are low-end starter types. 

 

Beane has taken this model in 2021, 2022 and now 2023. 

 

 

 

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

The Bills overall evaluation of talent is questionable at best.  And especially poor on both lines.  That they think that Spencer Brown is good enough to be a starter on a Super Bowl contender is curious at best, and down right negligent at worst?  Fortunately we hit on an amazing QB.  Because if not for Josh Allen, McBeane would have been working for LL Beane by now.

I mean this is kind of a ridiculous statement. Beane is not perfect and his evaluation of o line had been average at best. But this team has won double-digit games 4 years in a row while having a top 5 defense and offense most of that time. Allen is far and away the biggest reason why, but to ignore the rest of the roster is disingenuous at best 

[PrimeTime101]

58 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

That's why I specifically said they found their LT and Center and "surround(ed)" them with low-end FAs and starters. 

 

But Feliciano, Daryl Williams, Boettger, Bates, Doyle, Brown, Saffold, Van Roten, Quesenberry, Hart - these guys are low-end starter types. 

 

Beane has taken this model in 2021, 2022 and now 2023. 

 

 

 

All this I concur  

[Simon Says]

Is he appreciably better than ,Brown, Doyle, Quessenberry? Would Bills still DRAFT a RT? If he suspected that, would it turn him off to signing ?

Oh....recently signed guard Edwards was a pretty good RT in college.  

Edited April 3, 2023 by Herb Nightly

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, Herb Nightly said:

Is he appreciably better than ,Brown, Doyle, Quessenberry? Would Bills still DRAFT a RT? If he suspected that, would it turn him off to signing with Buffalo?

To the bolded, this is how I feel and I feel like I am being slammed for it.  Is this not a win now team? does this GM like drafting defense in early rounds? 1-2? Why not plug what many feel is a hole at RT? IDK if it would turn him off or not.. I think at that age at this point.. its just about getting the money and finishing his career on a strong note. 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, papazoid said:

he'd make a good swing tackle...had starts at both sides last year

 

about as good as dawkins and way better than quisenberry and brown.

 

if at $1.9 mil .....a no brainer

Yeah but again we're dealing with stubborn guys who don't want to admit that Spencer isn't the answer.  If they don't at the very least draft 1 OT to compete with Brown then they just are playing a foolish game.

[PrimeTime101]

4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Yeah but again we're dealing with stubborn guys who don't want to admit that Spencer isn't the answer.  If they don't at the very least draft 1 OT to compete with Brown then they just are playing a foolish game.

I keep hearing this Narrative that Beane and McD are stubborn and stuck with Brown, yet no one has any proof, any voice conversation or video of them saying this.. So, to me because of what I just said, It feels to me like a false narrative. The fact is right now he is as good as Dawkins as you say then at 1.8 mil he would be an easy decision to add to the roster yes? 

Edited April 3, 2023 by PrimeTime101

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, mrags said:

They say that every year. I’m just reading the writing on the wall. They aren’t going to upgrade the RT spot. Unless someone falls to them in the draft they weren’t expecting to be there and they can’t pass it up. 
 

we can wish and hope all we want, but consistently this FO has disappointed us when it comes to what we think they need as far as competition and what they actually do. Look no further than being disappointed again. Just saying. 

 

2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

that is an assumption sir. for 1.1 million for 1 year why would you NOT bring in competition? at the very least, solid depth? IF they feel they SO good at RT then why would they even have T anywhere on their radar?

 

Guess we agree to disagree on this one  

THANK YOU!!!    jeez... no brainer spot on..  

 

 

Talk about assumptions!  Are you Flemings agent, his mother??  Otherwise how do you know what he'll sign for?  1$.1 mil for 1 year is called an assumption Sir.  And much bigger than what mrags stated.  The number you throw out may very likely be correct, but right now is just an assumption

 

As rags stated, Beane has stated repeatedly they are happy with Brown and felt due to injuries and other factors, they have faith in him.  That has been publicly stated by Beane.  2+2= 4 that's not an assumption!  Could they still bring someone in, maybe Fleming.  Yes but as Rags is trying to tell you, but you don't want to listen, good chance it will not be high level of competition if anyone.

[PrimeTime101]

2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

 

 

Talk about assumptions!  Are you Flemings agent, his mother??  Otherwise how do you know what he'll sign for?  1$.1 mil for 1 year is called an assumption Sir.  And much bigger than what mrags stated.  The number you throw out may very likely be correct, but right now is just an assumption

 

As rags stated, Beane has stated repeatedly they are happy with Brown and felt due to injuries and other factors, they have faith in him.  That has been publicly stated by Beane.  2+2= 4 that's not an assumption!  Could they still bring someone in, maybe Fleming.  Yes but as Rags is trying to tell you, but you don't want to listen, good chance it will not be high level of competition if anyone.

so as far as the numbers? his value is 1.8 if this is his last year it would be closer to 1.1. they just numbers and YES.. assumptions. I would be fine to get this dude at 1.8

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, mrags said:

Because Beane and the Bills brass have already expressed their belief in Brown and regardless what many fans think, he is their guy at RT moving forward. 

 

Bean and the Bills brass have shown an ability to both be: (1) bad at drafting, particularly on the lines; and (2) stubborn in admitting an error and correcting it.  

[BillsNutHawaii]

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

That's an assumption not fact. They specifically said this off-season they were going to overlook every position this year to see how we could improve (within reason)

I believe it!  Figures, they are going to "overlook" the OL again, just like every other year.

[Goin Breakdown]

Because he doesn't have a mullet or wear a neck pad. 

[Freddie's Dead]

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

That's an assumption not fact. They specifically said this off-season they were going to overlook every position this year to see how we could improve (within reason)

 

[PrimeTime101]

4 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

I believe it!  Figures, they are going to "overlook" the OL again, just like every other year.

accept they not overlooking the OL this year. What we did in FA proves that fact

1 minute ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

used the wrong word in the middle of 3 nephews having a hissy fit. God I love babysitting lol. I did not mean that word. thanks i will edit. 

[mrags]

11 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Bean and the Bills brass have shown an ability to both be: (1) bad at drafting, particularly on the lines; and (2) stubborn in admitting an error and correcting it.  

100% agree 

[Yantha]

2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Your looking at 2 stats and think that one is better over 2 stats? are you kidding me? While I agree Brown has more upside, this is about competition and depth yes? 

 

We want to improve the line, and my point is that this guy would just be a lateral move without the chance for improvement.  I'm hoping we get a starter at RT, and Brown becomes the backup (again, with upside).

 

Maybe he'd be a great candidate for a move to RG though, but we already added two OG's.  I'm not opposed to something like that, if he's a vet minimum kind of guy.  

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, GreggTX said:

He's not very good. You can't build a good OL by signing only low quality linemen. At some point you need to sign good or elite linemen. We have too many low quality offensive linemen already.

 

I'm going to disagree even though I agree.  It does bother me that Beane tries to build the OL with jags.  

 

I think this is where Beane's head is at:  It's a passing league.  That's why McD runs a 4-2-5 defense.  Both Beane and McD have embraced the current and future state of the NFL.  For Beane, the prioritization of passing means he'll spend a bucketload of money on QB, WR, DE and DB.   

 

If there were no salary cap, I'm sure he'd spend a ton on an OL too.  But with the reality of cap limitations, he tries to economize on the OL with cap-friendly jags.  I can only guess that Beane thinks we can overcome our JAG OL with good coaching and scheming.  But if that was the plan, it's a flawed one.  

 

Nonetheless, a GM who produces 4 consecutive 10+ winning seasons is, in fact, good at his job.  Either that, or his Head Coach is a freaking genius.  

[ColoradoBills]

12 minutes ago, Yantha said:

 

We want to improve the line, and my point is that this guy would just be a lateral move without the chance for improvement.  I'm hoping we get a starter at RT, and Brown becomes the backup (again, with upside).

 

Maybe he'd be a great candidate for a move to RG though, but we already added two OG's.  I'm not opposed to something like that, if he's a vet minimum kind of guy.  

 

Exactly.  This guy most likely will get signed right after the draft by some team needing depth competition.  The positive I see about only Q being

signed at an OT spot and no one else gives me hope for the draft.  If the board doesn't fall right a couple of these kind of guys will come to camp.

6 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I'm going to disagree even though I agree.  It does bother me that Beane tries to build the OL with jags.  

 

I think this is where Beane's head is at:  It's a passing league.  That's why McD runs a 4-2-5 defense.  Both Beane and McD have embraced the current and future state of the NFL.  For Beane, the prioritization of passing means he'll spend a bucketload of money on QB, WR, DE and DB.   

 

If there were no salary cap, I'm sure he'd spend a ton on an OL too.  But with the reality of cap limitations, he tries to economize on the OL with cap-friendly jags.  I can only guess that Beane thinks we can overcome our JAG OL with good coaching and scheming.  But if that was the plan, it's a flawed one.  

 

Nonetheless, a GM who produces 4 consecutive 10+ winning seasons is, in fact, good at his job.  Either that, or his Head Coach is a freaking genius.  

 

It has been true in a lot of instances in the past.  If there is no OL taken by Day 2 this year, I will be disappointed.

However, I'm not going to write off this year until I see the final OL roster going to camp.  It's premature to do that THIS year.