A players perspective on the Bengals game

[Beast]

I said they were going to hit a wall after the Hamlin incident. I think that actually happened the week before against Miami and it carried over.

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well you are entitled to do what you want but that is how the valuations are worked by teams. 

 

According to who? Show me the NFL team that has released data on how they value trades. It doesn’t exist. Last we heard, NFL teams have all but scrapped that old chart in favor of proprietary charts they make in house and you don’t have access to.

 

 

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Regardless, no discounting it bumps the overall value of the trade up 1 extra pick. It is still a mid 2nd.

 

No one said it wasn’t a 2nd. You seem to be fighting a battle that isn’t in contention. Though the old chart is useless now since teams have changed it and we don’t know the new values, it probably is *somewhere* around a high to mid 2nd round pick.

 

But all I said was the Chiefs got hosed and I stand by that. The funny part is that if you go to ChiefsPlanet, they say the same thing. Top 5 money and a plethora of picks for a mediocre LT that was the weak link in their line.

 

.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Einstein

[BillsPride12]

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

You look at Bufs previous 25-30 games and that game sticks out like a sore thumb. No team treated us like that , not 1 that beat us up on both sides of the ball. 

Just a bad day at the office

Colts in 2021.  When push comes to shove we just aren't strong enough in the trenches

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

According to who? Show me the NFL team that has released data on how they value trades. It doesn’t exist. Last we heard, NFL teams have all but scrapped that old chart in favor of proprietary charts they make in house and you don’t have access to.

 

 

 

No one said it wasn’t a 2nd. You seem to be fighting a battle that isn’t in contention. Though the old chart is useless now since teams have changed it and we don’t know the new values, it probably is *somewhere* around a high to mid 2nd round pick.

 

But all I said was the Chiefs got hosed and I stand by that. The funny part is that if you go to ChiefsPlanet, they say the same thing. Top 5 money and a plethora of picks for a mediocre LT that was the weak link in their line.

 

.

 

The Rich Hill chart is definitely worth looking at, but that is a chart that tracks what is happening, it isn't used as a starting point. How do I know? Because I speak to people who actually have experience of being in those rooms. The starting point remains the Jimmy Johnson chart and then the deviation from it depends on the strength of the board at that point. 

 

So the last we heard if what we do is a google search is not the same as the reality.

[DrDawkinstein]

18 minutes ago, Beast said:

I said they were going to hit a wall after the Hamlin incident. I think that actually happened the week before against Miami and it carried over.

 

Yeah, they were done after that MNF game.

 

They just happened to "get lucky" and have two more games against floundering divisional opponents who they were so familiar with they could essentially sleepwalk to victories (barely). Once they had to play a "real game" their situation was exposed.

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

Taiwan is currently a free agent so it doesn’t benefit him to cover for the coaches as you suggest

Yes it does, what HC wants to sign a guy who throws his former HC under the bus,

[Einstein]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Rich Hill chart is definitely worth looking at, but that is a chart that tracks what is happening, it isn't used as a starting point. How do I know? Because I speak to people who actually have experience of being in those rooms.

 

Well if you’re friends with NFL GM’s then I won’t argue with you. I’ll be skeptical but I won’t argue.

 

But in that case, we should be trading our next years 1st round picks every year for quality NFL players, since it’s only a 2nd round pick. Right?

[SCBills]

12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yeah, they were done after that MNF game.

 

They just happened to "get lucky" and have two more games against floundering divisional opponents who they were so familiar with they could essentially sleepwalk to victories (barely). Once they had to play a "real game" their situation was exposed.

 

I think I agree with this.  I remember watching some of Dion Dawkins interviews, and everything he said was perfectly fine given the situation, but thinking deep down that the season was over.  You could tell that the focus and mentality needed to win when it matters wasn't remotely anywhere near where it needed to be going into the playoffs. 

[DapperCam]

17 hours ago, Einstein said:

Excuses.

 

We lost because the Bengals are the better team right now. From coaches to players.

Maybe they are slightly better. But the Bills got blown out and didn’t even show up. Based on roster talent, games vs the Bengals should be a toss up.

 

Saffold said similar things (team was emotionally spent and didn’t have anything left in the tank). Maybe it is an excuse, but it can still be true.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Well if you’re friends with NFL GM’s then I won’t argue with you. I’ll be skeptical but I won’t argue.

 

But in that case, we should be trading our next years 1st round picks every year for quality NFL players, since it’s only a 2nd round pick. Right?

 

I'm not friends with NFL GMs, no. But I do have a couple of former NFL scouts who I am on DM'ing terms with. And they have been in draft rooms and seen the process even if they were not ultimately decision makers. 

 

As for the second line, I mean that was the Rams strategy. They considered themselves in "win now" mode, and valued future picks as being worth less to them in that scenario. 

[Billl]

26 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Trey Smith was taken with the pick you got from Carolina. 

 

You can try to rationalize it because KC selected Bolton, but the fact is that they could have taken Bolton with the #31 pick too.

 

In all, KC gave up a 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th in exchange for a medicare LT that gave up 11 pressures in the playoffs a 2nd and a 6th. And they only got that mediocre player for 2 years and one of those years they had to pay him top 5 money.

 

Your own fans at ChiefsPlanet know the trade sucked. There’s a whole thread about it.

There was no “pro bowl quality LT” about it. He’s painfully mediocre and i’m very happy Cinci overpaid him. 

One of us is rationalizing, I'll give you that.  I've taken my kids to two Superbowl parades in the last 3 years, so I suppose we can agree to disagree on which one of us it is.

 

And sure, the Chiefs could've taken Bolton or Creed or Trey at 31, and they'd all look like good picks in hindsight.  Instead, they got all those players PLUS the LT who sucked to bad that the Chiefs hung 552 yards and 42 points on the Bills in the playoffs his first season (I guess Groot and Boogie didn't get the memo that Brown sucks) and 38 on the Eagles in the Superbowl his second year.

 

Maybe the Bills will have more success against the Bengals offensive line next year with Brown than they did this year against a bunch of backups.

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm not friends with NFL GMs, no. But I do have a couple of former NFL scouts who I am on DM'ing terms with. And they have been in draft rooms and seen the process even if they were not ultimately decision makers. 

 

As for the second line, I mean that was the Rams strategy. They considered themselves in "win now" mode, and valued future picks as being worth less to them in that scenario. 

That’s the thing. If NFL teams really devalued next years picks, then we would be seeing mass swaps of future picks. Trade next years 1st round pick every year - it’s just a 2nd round pick after all - and load your team with players that have already proven themselves in the NFL. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Einstein said:

That’s the thing. If NFL teams really devalued next years picks, then we would be seeing mass swaps of future picks. Trade next years 1st round pick every year - it’s just a 2nd round pick after all - and load your team with players that have already proven themselves in the NFL. 

 

The reason we don't is the salary cap. 1st round draft picks are 5 years of cost controlled cheap labour of potentially high end talent.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

That’s the thing. If NFL teams really devalued next years picks, then we would be seeing mass swaps of future picks. Trade next years 1st round pick every year - it’s just a 2nd round pick after all - and load your team with players that have already proven themselves in the NFL. 

Didn't the Rams just do this and win a Superbowl?

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

One of us is rationalizing, I'll give you that.  I've taken my kids to two Superbowl parades in the last 3 years, so I suppose we can agree to disagree on which one of us it is.

 

You’re using the false fallacy that the end result means every move before that was good. Orlando Brown was not good. He gave up 11 pressures in the playoffs. That’s almost as many as some LT’s gave up all last season (17 games). 

 

You won the SB despite Orlando Brown. Not because of. Defenders blowing by him and pressuring Mahomes was not the key to victory. Trey Smith was a trade with the Jets. Not Ravens. And you could have taken Bolton AND a LT AND Trey Smith without ever trading for Brown, AND kept $16M in cap.

[Scott7975]

17 hours ago, Einstein said:

Excuses.

 

We lost because the Bengals are the better team right now. From coaches to players.

 

That may or may not be true but you could tell that only a handful of players looked like they wanted to be there and showed up to play.  The rest of them were checked out and wanting to go home.  It was pretty obvious looking at them that they were just going through the motions.  

 

Personally I do not care or like the excuses of "oh we were mentally drained from all the woes that happened during the season."  Most of those excuse marks are normal.  Two of them arent.  Hamlin is not normal but he came out fine.  It should have invigorated them him being in the stadium.  The shooting.  Of course people care and are affected by it but they didnt know any of those people.  Generally when you dont know someone that dies you move past it pretty quick.  Injuries... those happen to every team. Snow game... big deal.  They played in Detroit for a game.  No excuse to show up to that game disinterested when you were the super bowl favorites.  

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The reason we don't is the salary cap. 1st round draft picks are 5 years of cost controlled cheap labour of potentially high end talent.

 

With at least a 50% fail rate. 
Or… teams just don’t see next years picks as devalued by a round.

 

The other side of the coin is that by the devalue logic, teams should be begging other teams to take their good players in exchange for picks. So they can get a bunch of cost controlled players.

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Didn't the Rams just do this and win a Superbowl?

 

 

Philly went a similar route and didn't win it.  Lucky for them, they play in the JV league and their QB isn't falling apart... but they are bleeding talent this off-season. 

[FireChans]

Just now, SCBills said:

 

 

Philly went a similar route and didn't win it.  Lucky for them, they play in the JV league and their QB isn't falling apart... but they are bleeding talent this off-season. 

What.

 

Phlly hasn't NOT picked in the first round since 2018.  And they have 2 picks in the first round this year.

 

Can't think of a worse example of a "similar route"

[Billl]

12 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

You’re using the false fallacy that the end result means every move before that was good. Orlando Brown was not good. He gave up 11 pressures in the playoffs. That’s almost as many as some LT’s gave up all last season (17 games). 

 

You won the SB despite Orlando Brown. Not because of. Defenders blowing by him and pressuring Mahomes was not the key to victory. Trey Smith was a trade with the Jets. Not Ravens. And you could have taken Bolton AND a LT AND Trey Smith without ever trading for Brown, AND kept $16M in cap.

WTF are you talking about?  The tackles taken 31 or later were Teven Jenkins (bust), Liam Eichenberg (bust at T and moved to G), Walker Little (bust), Jackson Carmen (bust), Dillon Radunz (bust), and Spencer Brown (LOL).

 

I don't think Reid and Veach are kicking themselves right now over missing out on those slapdicks.

[Beck Water]

36 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Yes it does, what HC wants to sign a guy who throws his former HC under the bus,

 

Ding ding ding

 

If they're smart, neither players nor coaches are going to give their authentic, unvarnished opinions to the press.  If they do, there's a good chance it will accelerate their chances of being told to seek employment elsewhere, or hamper their chances of being signed with a new team.

 

One of the things I don't care about with Ty Dunne's approach is that he seems to cultivate relationships with players who are lower down on the roster thus not assigned PR handlers or rehearsed in dealing with the media, then get stuff out of them that may potentially hurt them with their coaches or team.  There's a line between both Dunne and the player enjoying a bit of unvarnished talk (like McKenzie saying he'd rather be sent to talk to Beane than McDermott, McDermott is like your Dad "why did you do that?  I taught you better than that!" and Beane is like your fun Uncle "well, if you're going to steal a car, make sure it's a fun car and try not to get caught next time" - it was entertaining) vs. egging the player on to maybe say stuff that the players and coaches expect to keep in-house, which Dunne definitely tries to do at times.

 

JMO

Edited March 23, 2023 by Beck Water

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What.

 

Phlly hasn't NOT picked in the first round since 2018.  And they have 2 picks in the first round this year.

 

Can't think of a worse example of a "similar route"

 

We'll see if they get back.. they loaded up and had to let a ton of good players walk.  

 

You're correct that they have draft capital.   There's really no great comparison to the Rams given they went all in on both... sacrificed future seasons with leveraged cap spending AND traded away their premium picks. 

 

I can't imagine any GM will do that, because if you come up short and then have to deal with 2-3 seasons of a bad team rebuilding.. they're likely not surviving that. 

[Fleezoid]

Other than the Taiwan Jones piece, that article offered nothing to me. Part of it is kind of an oxymoron of itself. It talks about how the Bills have all these high priced players, a rather indictment of Beane, and how our rivals are getting pieces at greater value. Then it praises Beane for his free agency moves. As we all know, the jury will deliberate on those moves well into the upcoming season. 

 

The article also has a Capt Obvious ring to it. It talks about the playoff collapses, specifically the Cincy game. That loss is all too obvious to those that watched the game. Which is why Jones had no alternative except to agree with the Uber drive. It criticizes McD's philosophy which many here have done, and arguably so. However, the article offers no real solution. It's almost like a "Part 1 of 2" where there is no Part 2. 

[Einstein]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

I don't think Reid and Veach are kicking themselves right now over missing out on those slapdicks.

 

Considering the reports are that the Chiefs were "frustrated" and "disappointed" by Orlando Brown... yeah, I do think they regret the trade.

 

2 years of mediocre-to-bad LT play, paying him top dollar one of those years, and then leaves.

 

https://arrowheadaddict.com/2022/07/19/kc-chiefs-frustrated-disappointed-orlando-brown-jr/

[Dopey]

Hey Ladies and Gents, Can we all just say the Bengals are better than us!?! Maybe a certain someone will STHU!

PLEASE.

 

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

We'll see if they get back.. they loaded up and had to let a ton of good players walk.  

 

You're correct that they have draft capital.   There's really no great comparison to the Rams given they went all in on both... sacrificed future seasons with leveraged cap spending AND traded away their premium picks. 

 

I can't imagine any GM will do that, because if you come up short and then have to deal with 2-3 seasons of a bad team rebuilding.. they're likely not surviving that. 

Um that's what everyone said but the Rams did it.  They called the Rams crazy.  Said it wasn't worth it because they would pay for it a few years down the road.

 

Well guess what, the Rams went to 2 Superbowls in 5 years and won 1 of them. They had their first losing season in 6 years. And they did it even with switching QB's during their run.

 

The dirty little secret in the NFL is that winning a Superbowl is hard. On TBD, a certain population convinced themselves that because McD is a good coach and Allen is a great QB, we are gonna have a 20 year dominant dynasty.  That's not even close to the reality.  There are tons of great QB's that never won, or won only once.

 

It's far more likely the Bills scrape around and maybe get 1 SB win in Allen's career than McD/Allen winning multiple Superbowls.  Hell, even the greatest dynasty in NFL history (led by the GOAT QB AND coach) had a 10 year period where they didn't win a title.

 

I don't care if we go 6-11 for 2-3 years because we gamble to win one NOW. I want to win one NOW.

[Beast]

3 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Hey Ladies and Gents, Can we all just say the Bengals are better than us!?! Maybe a certain someone will STHU!

PLEASE.

 

The Bengals were the better team for sure.

 

However, if you don’t think the Bills were as flat as 2 week old Coca-Cola with the cap not on right, you are one clueless SOB.

[blacklabel]

I'm not one to sit here on an internet forum and respond to this with "Excuses!" like I know what the heck I'm talking about. Sit there with disdain and anger because your favorite team didn't do what you wanted them to do. Some of the reactions and comments from some people on this board have been absolutely repugnant and just absurd. I can't stand that s#it. 

 

I said it in a different thread. They just picked the worst time to have their worst game. They're human beings and I don't blame them. I get no joy out of trying to figure out who's most to blame for their performance. 

 

I guess I just really can't stand some of the crap people wanna dump on this team. It is far and away one of the finest eras of Buffalo Bills football in their entire history and some of you sit back, arms folded, seething as you watch them. I've never understood the angry fan. Some of y'all act like they've gone 2-14 (or 2-15, whichever) every year in the McDermott Era and also each player and coach has personally come thru to slap your mammy in the face. 

 

I don't necessarily agree with everything they do but I'm not gonna get all wrapped up in it. 

 

Stuff happens. They had a bad game. It's pretty clear now that they had all pretty much ran out of gas. I mean, it was a rough season. A psychopath shot up a grocery store before the season. They lose a team leader in Hyde in Week Two. Tre White struggles all year to get back and when he returns, he's rusty and a third of this board is ready to not only cut him but ensure he never, ever plays ball again in his life. 

 

A frickin' blizzard cost them a home game. The monster free agent they brought was awesome until Ford Field went and bit his dang kneecaps off. Josh's elbow got bent the wrong frickin' way and they clearly had to adjust the offense much more than I think we know. Oh, also, a guy frickin' DIED on the field. Those dudes had to sit there helplessly as one of their brothers lay dead on the field with none of them knowing if he was gonna survive. Obviously we're all thankful that he did. 

 

Yeah..."excuses." I understand that that's what it is in a factual sense. It just seems so disingenuous and cruel to know what this team went thru this season and brush it off like you're some hoity-toity retired All Pro who knows something and just shrugs and goes, "Mehh...excuses! Now fire everyone and listen to me on how to build a championship team. I've already done it 27 times on the internets and in Madden so get the heck out of what is now *my* office, Mr. Beane, and let me, Two Bills Drive Forum All-Star, to get the real work done."

 

Ugh. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by blacklabel

[Livinginthepast]

This isn't a huge revelation. The players played like crap. They were listless and were burned out by the emotional and physical toll the previous few weeks had taken on them.  The coaches also didn't adjust to the conditions and the team they were facing and created a game plan that put the players at a deficit. As the game unfolded the coaches didn't adjust their poor game plan and didn't make any real attempts to motivate the players or call them out for their poor play . You could argue that last point and say none of the Bills coaches are like that (i.e. get in your face and get angry) but it still should have happened given the circumstances.  It was a total team failure of players and coaches and definitely could have been avoided. So even though Taiwan is putting this on the players, the coaches for me, still bear most of the blame for the Cinci disaster. 

[Dopey]

28 minutes ago, Beast said:

The Bengals were the better team for sure.

 

However, if you don’t think the Bills were as flat as 2 week old Coca-Cola with the cap not on right, you are one clueless SOB.

I’m with you there. This isn’t Madden. 

[Lagoon Blues]

I get it...as much as people complain that they are pros, blah blah blah, Sometimes you just have nothing left to give and you find yourself just going through the motions.  It happens to everyone even at elite levels.  I'm a musician.  Sometimes at the end of a long run you just run out of gas.  Night after night and after while you hit that wall.  Not saying its the same but sometimes no matter how bad you want to have your biggest performance you just cant.  Dont get me wrong...those times haunt you.  It's haunting them now.  Its a ***** feeling when you look at the crowd and they know it just as much as you know it on those.  

Edited March 23, 2023 by Lagoon Blues

[Beck Water]

21 hours ago, mushypeaches said:

I think that what you said right here is the thing that fans have latched onto all off-season, and frankly what scares us more than any personnel losses or future salary cap constraints.  

 

When you have a staff that isn't capable of reading the room or properly adjusting to these types of in-game circumstances, that's when it's hard to envision a Super Bowl victory no matter how great our QB is or how much talent we acquire

 

Here's the thing.  Maybe it's the Achilles heel of McDermott's strength.  When you say you're going to craft a winning organization with love - with guys genuinely getting to know each other and soaking in and building bonds - you have to really mean it for it to be worth anything.  And when you've got a guy, a brother, who essentially dies on the field and spends the next week fighting for his life - it's gonna have the same impact, in that environment, as a critical health situation or death for a close family member, except this time, it's not one guy it's the whole team.  And the coaches are feeling it too.  There were some media rumors that at least one of the coaches had broken down that following week.

 

You can read the room, but what exactly are you supposed to do/say to "properly adjust" for a team that just had its head rammed into the fact that there are some things bigger than football?  "Forget what just happened. Go out and go back to hitting other players like you want to smash their chests in, Be a Man".  That doesn't work - it makes you look like everything you've ever said about loving and caring for one another is bogus.  Sometimes it just takes time to process this stuff. You can scream at the players for not making plays, but if they think they're giving everything they've got or they just can't get it into that extra gear with the weight they're carrying, what's yelling gonna do?

 

Yeah, a lot of us have lost a close family member or friend and taken our 1 to 3 days leave and gone back to work and sucked it up.  But the circumstances are different.  I could be working at 80% or 90% and still do a functional job, better than being absent and others having to cover for me.  But the talent difference between two top teams (or even a top team and a bottom team) is not that big in today's NFL.  Face a team you're a lot better than, maybe you can sleep walk through it.  Face a team that's even steven, better in some places not as good in others, you better bring it all at 100% or you're Going Down.

 

Personally I think it was a mistake to have Hamlin in the locker room before the game.  I think it put "what can happen if you smash into a guys chest at the wrong time in the wrong place" right back before their eyes and instead of being motivational, was de-motivational.  But @Simon said it, the Bills played their final game against the Patriots "with Love", and there were elements of that in the Dolphins game as well, so maybe it didn't make a difference or was positive.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Beck Water

[zow2]

You think about it,,,,the Bills players probably had the mindset of "hey, we're home, nobody is coming into Orchard Park to beat us...the Mafia, table smashing, everybody is juiced up, our weather conditions, neutral site game vs KC on deck, Super Bowl baby!  etc.. Cinci has zero chance". 

 

Then we defer the coin toss, kick off.  Cincinnati starts the game on their 21 yard line and like a hot knife through butter, goes 6 plays for a TD.   I think the players were just slapped in the face.  They were stunned... and had no idea how to respond to that.  Like Taiwan said, everyone was looking around for someone else to make a play.  Nothing the Bills did on O or D worked after that opening kick.  I just imagine them on the sidelines in shock.  Hopefully we never see this again in a playoff game.  I'd say it's a good lesson, but we've run out of time for another "lesson" with this group.  They shouldn't need one. 

[GoBills808]

19 hours ago, mrags said:

So…. The players had no fire and no urgency in the game at all. The coaches apparently didn’t notice this like some of the players did and did nothing about it. I understand the players need to play the game. But when things like this happen on a grand scale, when it’s not just one player, it’s a coaching issue. At the very least the coaches needed to rein it in and change something. 

Exactly

 

If it were one or two important players or even an entire position group you can make the case that the players were at fault...but when every single player on the roster is having their absolute worst game of the year in the biggest spot it's is on the staff.

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, zow2 said:

You think about it,,,,the Bills players probably had the mindset of "hey, we're home, nobody is coming into Orchard Park to beat us...the Mafia, table smashing, everybody is juiced up, our weather conditions, neutral site game vs KC on deck, Super Bowl baby!  etc.. Cinci has zero chance". 

 

Then we defer the coin toss, kick off.  Cincinnati starts the game on their 21 yard line and like a hot knife through butter, goes 6 plays for a TD.   I think the players were just slapped in the face.  They were stunned... and had no idea how to respond to that.  Like Taiwan said, everyone was looking around for someone else to make a play.  Nothing the Bills did on O or D worked after that opening kick.  I just imagine them on the sidelines in shock.  Hopefully we never see this again in a playoff game.  I'd say it's a good lesson, but we've run out of time for another "lesson" with this group.  They shouldn't need one. 

 

We'd gotten slapped in the face earlier in the season  - Ravens were up on us 20-3 with 1:47 left in the 2nd Q with our previous drives being Interception - FG - Fumble - Punt -Punt - and we clawed back.

 

I don't think the problem was that the players had "no idea how to respond to that".   We weren't a team that had been having things all our own way with no need to battle back all season.

 

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Exactly

 

If it were one or two important players or even an entire position group you can make the case that the players were at fault...but when every single player on the roster is having their absolute worst game of the year in the biggest spot it's is on the staff.

 

So what exactly do you think the staff is supposed to do to change things? 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Beck Water

[mrags]

32 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Exactly

 

If it were one or two important players or even an entire position group you can make the case that the players were at fault...but when every single player on the roster is having their absolute worst game of the year in the biggest spot it's is on the staff.

Yup

[GoBills808]

32 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

We'd gotten slapped in the face earlier in the season  - Ravens were up on us 20-3 with 1:47 left in the 2nd Q with our previous drives being Interception - FG - Fumble - Punt -Punt - and we clawed back.

 

I don't think the problem was that the players had "no idea how to respond to that".   We weren't a team that had been having things all our own way with no need to battle back all season.

 

 

So what exactly do you think the staff is supposed to do to change things? 

I don't know. It was mystifying to watch tho

[TheFunPolice]

NFL is all about matchups. Bengals are a bad matchup for us. 

 

On the flip side, they basically never win against the Browns for some reason.

 

Bengals are tough for the chiefs, for example, who finally beat them once

 

 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't know. It was mystifying to watch tho

 

I agree, it was mystifying to watch.  I'm just a bit puzzled on what, exactly, the people laying it on the coaches believe the coaches shoulda done.

 

It was said that the coaches could tell the players were dragging and that they'd tried to adjust the week's schedule to "get things right".  Obviously whatever they tried, either wasn't the right thing or wasn't enough.

 

 

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, blacklabel said:

I'm not one to sit here on an internet forum and respond to this with "Excuses!" like I know what the heck I'm talking about. Sit there with disdain and anger because your favorite team didn't do what you wanted them to do. Some of the reactions and comments from some people on this board have been absolutely repugnant and just absurd. I can't stand that s#it. 

 

I said it in a different thread. They just picked the worst time to have their worst game. They're human beings and I don't blame them. I get no joy out of trying to figure out who's most to blame for their performance. 

 

I guess I just really can't stand some of the crap people wanna dump on this team. It is far and away one of the finest eras of Buffalo Bills football in their entire history and some of you sit back, arms folded, seething as you watch them. I've never understood the angry fan. Some of y'all act like they've gone 2-14 (or 2-15, whichever) every year in the McDermott Era and also each player and coach has personally come thru to slap your mammy in the face. 

 

I don't necessarily agree with everything they do but I'm not gonna get all wrapped up in it. 

 

Stuff happens. They had a bad game. It's pretty clear now that they had all pretty much ran out of gas. I mean, it was a rough season. A psychopath shot up a grocery store before the season. They lose a team leader in Hyde in Week Two. Tre White struggles all year to get back and when he returns, he's rusty and a third of this board is ready to not only cut him but ensure he never, ever plays ball again in his life. 

 

A frickin' blizzard cost them a home game. The monster free agent they brought was awesome until Ford Field went and bit his dang kneecaps off. Josh's elbow got bent the wrong frickin' way and they clearly had to adjust the offense much more than I think we know. Oh, also, a guy frickin' DIED on the field. Those dudes had to sit there helplessly as one of their brothers lay dead on the field with none of them knowing if he was gonna survive. Obviously we're all thankful that he did. 

 

Yeah..."excuses." I understand that that's what it is in a factual sense. It just seems so disingenuous and cruel to know what this team went thru this season and brush it off like you're some hoity-toity retired All Pro who knows something and just shrugs and goes, "Mehh...excuses! Now fire everyone and listen to me on how to build a championship team. I've already done it 27 times on the internets and in Madden so get the heck out of what is now *my* office, Mr. Beane, and let me, Two Bills Drive Forum All-Star, to get the real work done."

 

Ugh. 

This great, BL, so I quoted it.  It's just so well put.

 

And I'll add more thing.  "Excuses" is a loaded word.   They are explanations.   They are statements of the events that happened to them as individuals and as a team, and the emotional impact of those events explain why the team could have been flat.   

 

An excuse is an explanation that someone uses to absolve themselves or someone else of responsibility for what happened.   No one is saying the Bills players aren't responsible for what they do - after all, they're the only ones who could play the game; all they're saying is that it's not surprising that these human beings found it hard to perform under the circumstances.  It's not surprising, because our sense is that most people would have found it hard to perform.  We all glorified Allen for playing well after his grandmother died.   Why did we glorify him?  Because we understand that emotionally stressful events make it difficult to perform at peak efficiency.   It's hardly surprising that 100 human beings, collectively, found it difficult to perform at NFL playoff efficiency after having multiple deceased grandmothers in their previous eight months.