D-Hop & The King

[Snappysnackcakes]

17 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

News flash the Bills are happy with this Oline and they weren’t nearly as bad as u make it out. Plus we still have our middle rd pks to add some lineman to develop and our 1st rd Pk. So we can still replenish the Oline for the future. 

You nailed it. McGovern IS an upgrade over Saffold and having Boettger back helps immensely as it relates to depth. Brown had zero TC reps last season and Doyle provides a hopeful swing tackle for game days. Beane is doing a great job of eliminating glaring needs before the draft, so they can focus on BPA. Be very thankful that we have a more-than-capable front office. As it relates to WR, someone young will standout in camp and they’ll look to develop that talent. May be a draft pick, low-end roster filler currently signed, or a UDFA. The advent of high-flying college offenses makes it a lot easier to find bodies for this role that it did 30 years ago. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

5 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

D Hop and Robinson in round 1 may be a good replica of this without getting Henry’s money and need for 15 carries to get into a rhythm.  Draft OL in 2nd and 4th in this case. 

The touches are not a problem whatsoever . There’s gonna be enough offensive plays for everyone to get there’s. Plus Henry would like to get less touches to stretch his career out so 18/20 touches per game is double and I believe Hopkins and Diggs can both get 150 plus targets. 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

If he wasn't owed $11M maybe we get some team to bite, but that's a big price tag for a player who hasn't lived up to expectations.

People who have contacts somewhat in the know have floated a 3rd.  
 

Id be over the moon if we got a 3rd for Oliver.  
 

Im thinking a 4th or 5th.  And I’d gladly take that to clear his 10M.  
 

Maybe we truly do have him in our future plans, but top flight DT’s are getting PAID… and if Oliver becomes that this year, we can’t exactly afford him… If he doesn’t, why would we want to pay him?  
 

So, like Edmunds, it’s looking like a play out the option and walk situation.  
 

Unlike Edmunds, he hasn’t been anywhere close to the level of player Tremaine was. 

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

No it doesn’t he doesn’t have any guarantees only if he’s injured and that’s not the case. Plus I believe we can fetch a 4th or 5th for him easily. 

[Chaos]

20 minutes ago, Herb Nightly said:

I personally would give them Oliver,or the pick, not both.

My Oliver fantasy trade is send him back to Houston for their two 3rd round picks.

Oliver barely produces at the 10 mm salary cap level.  He has no meaningful value in a trade.  He is also not a big liability. He is neutral. His inclusion in a trade is simply to shift salary cap, allowing other parts of a trade to be made.  

[H2o]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Mmhmmmmm-  I was going to GIF it too- but was warned I shouldn’t post so many GIFS- they are distracting to many members 🤷🏻‍♂️   So I cut back here and there. Thanks for adding the visuals.  Love that gif 

I have been as well....... Just couldn't resist.  Agree with the thoughts as well. NO obviously hasn't learned from their previous situations. I also don't want us to sacrifice too much of our future to bring in older, pricey players in hopes they put us over the top. It could blow up in our face. 

[Snappysnackcakes]

Just now, NastyNateSoldiers said:

The touches are not a problem whatsoever . There’s gonna be enough offensive plays for everyone to get there’s. Plus Henry would like to get less touches to stretch his career out so 18/20 touches per game is double and I believe Hopkins and Diggs can both get 150 plus targets. 

As each day passes, the odds increase that Singletary re-ups with us. He’s an Allen favorite and understands his role on this offense. His true value is around $3m/year, at most, as his talents and production are both easily replaceable. Don’t let Sportrac fool you, he’s a dime-a-dozen talent. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

9 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

The Bills picked up his 5th year option.  That money is fully guaranteed bud.

I just read that they changed the rules recently it used to be only guaranteed for injuries but now it’s fully guaranteed 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

13 minutes ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

As each day passes, the odds increase that Singletary re-ups with us. He’s an Allen favorite and understands his role on this offense. His true value is around $3m/year, at most, as his talents and production are both easily replaceable. Don’t let Sportrac fool you, he’s a dime-a-dozen talent. 

This would absolutely make me sick 

[SCBills]

Just now, NastyNateSoldiers said:

This would absolutely make me sick 

Would be the grossest move of the off-season.  
 

Singletary makes no sense on this roster.  

[NastyNateSoldiers]

15 minutes ago, H2o said:

I have been as well....... Just couldn't resist.  Agree with the thoughts as well. NO obviously hasn't learned from their previous situations. I also don't want us to sacrifice too much of our future to bring in older, pricey players in hopes they put us over the top. It could blow up in our face. 

It can also win a Lombardi trophy! Btw what future does this team have most of the players are older and need to win now. Tre, Diggs, Poyer, Hyde and Von are all in win now mode and Allen career won’t last past 10yrs if he doesn’t stop taking hits. This team needs to really go all in now

[Simon Says]

45 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Lots of smoke for Hopkins to Dallas. 
 

Me, personally, I’d rather try to sign OBJ at 2yr/30M without giving up picks than trade for Hopkins. 
 

The ultimate all-in move for me (that doesn’t mortgage the future)

 

-Trade Oliver to recoup our Day 3 pick / clear 10M

-Sign OBJ 

 

-Trade for Henry / extend past this year 

 

-Extend Hyde to match Po

-Extend Daquan Jones

We still retain our RD1, RD3 and three Day3 picks to address LB, Safety depth, OL & DL. 
 

Two year window with:

 

Diggs/OBJ

Henry

Von

Hyde/Poyer

White

Morse(?)/Dawkins

 

Then a whole bunch of cap starts coming off the books as we look to retool around Allen. 

 

So you won't trade for a WR but would trade for Henry? That's still 10 million bucks.

No way do I dare sign OBJ.

You make a number of assumptions regarding  trades; they are nice fantasies but what are the odds?

I wouldn't mind trading  Oliver for a decent return ,there's 10,11 million of cap space for a WR or RB.

Why not Fournette? 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

1 minute ago, Herb Nightly said:

So you won't trade for a WR but would trade for Henry? That's still 10 million bucks.

No way do I dare sign OBJ.

You make a number of assumptions regarding  trades; they are nice fantasies but what are the odds?

I wouldn't mind trading  Oliver for a decent return ,there's 10,11 million of cap space for a WR or RB.

Why not Fournette? 

Fournette is a shell of himself might as well go after Zeke to . He’s done as well. 

[Mr. WEO]

this just in...

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Herb Nightly said:

So you won't trade for a WR but would trade for Henry? That's still 10 million bucks.

No way do I dare sign OBJ.

You make a number of assumptions regarding  trades; they are nice fantasies but what are the odds?

I wouldn't mind trading  Oliver for a decent return ,there's 10,11 million of cap space for a WR or RB.

Why not Fournette? 

Id trade for a WR (Jeudy).. If it’s between straight up signing OBJ or trading for Hop, I’d rather just sign OBJ.  

 

Yea, I’d trade for Henry.  He’s the only RB I’d do that for.  Not Cook, not Ekeler, but yea, I’d do it for Henry.  
 

Running a freak like Henry into light boxes is a gamble i’m willing to entertain.  

[T master]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I’m hearing the Titans want a 2nd and a day 3 Pk for Henry and the Cards want a 3rd and something else for Hopkins. We have the picks necessary to get this done the question is would u do it? I know the cap will be an issue but there’s ways to Redo there deals and we can get Oliver and his 11mil off the books. 
 

Making these deals would make our offense unstoppable force just imagine Allen , Diggs, Hopkins, Harty , Davis & Knox in the passing game and King Henry and Cook in the running game . This would absolutely take the league by storm . Defensive coordinators around the league would definitely not be sleeping much trying to prepare for this onslaught. 
 

The Defense would definitely take a step back but we still have the majority of our secondary intact with Tre getting back to health and a 2nd yr for Elam they still have top ten talent especially when Von returns . McD would have to put on a coaching clinic but I think they will be good enough with this offense to win the Super Bowl. This is a KC style approach with offense being top heavy and a defense that’s just good enough. 
 

Some will say there’s not enough plays for everyone on offense to succeed I believe there will be . The Bills have averaged 67 plays per game the last 2yrs these additions would put that over 75 . Which means u can still throw the ball 35/45 times per game and run it another 30 or so . Henry can get his 18/22 touches Cooks gets 8 . In the passing game u still can get Hopkins and Diggs there 10 targets each and the rest of the guys don’t need to be feed Harty, Davis & Knox can share the rest of the targets as well as a few a game to the running bks.  
 

I wish we can pull this off it’s the ultimate all in scenario and with this draft being weak and the fact is McBeane is underwhelming in drafting in the 2nd and 3rd anyways makes this that more enticing. If we did something like this and stay healthy we’re winning the Super Bowl!

 

This is a great fantasy line up for sure  it would be great if Beane could pull it off but given like you said the money for Oliver (which i wish they would trade him & his salary) & what they have tied up with Von i don't know how he would pull this off .

 

Beane is definitely a magician but i think even this might be beyond his magical skills but who knows i would love to see this line up on the field because as you said D coordinators would be having nightmares as the weeks coming up to play the Bills come around & that for sure sounds like a SB winning roster ! 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

1 minute ago, T master said:

 

This is a great fantasy line up for sure  it would be great if Beane could pull it off but given like you said the money for Oliver (which i wish they would trade him & his salary) & what they have tied up with Von i don't know how he would pull this off .

 

Beane is definitely a magician but i think even this might be beyond his magical skills but who knows i would love to see this line up on the field because as you said D coordinators would be having nightmares as the weeks coming up to play the Bills come around & that for sure sounds like a SB winning roster ! 

D-Hop salary is double 19mil base can be turned into an extension and King Henry as well. I won’t mind have these guy for 2/3 yrs. 

[JohnNord]

38 minutes ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

You nailed it. McGovern IS an upgrade over Saffold and having Boettger back helps immensely as it relates to depth. Brown had zero TC reps last season and Doyle provides a hopeful swing tackle for game days. Beane is doing a great job of eliminating glaring needs before the draft, so they can focus on BPA. Be very thankful that we have a more-than-capable front office. As it relates to WR, someone young will standout in camp and they’ll look to develop that talent. May be a draft pick, low-end roster filler currently signed, or a UDFA. The advent of high-flying college offenses makes it a lot easier to find bodies for this role that it did 30 years ago. 

BPA is always based on need…

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

News flash the Bills are happy with this Oline and they weren’t nearly as bad as u make it out. Plus we still have our middle rd pks to add some lineman to develop and our 1st rd Pk. So we can still replenish the Oline for the future. 

Double News Flash:  Beane hasn't gotten it all right, not even close. And that's why we have regressed the last 2 consecutive seasons and still failed to make a SB appearance in Josh's career sweet spot.

 

To date, these guys HAVE decided our OL is good enough, but that's been wrong.  If they slap a few band aids on it again, we'll be in trouble.

By the way, in our last game of the season, the one that mattered most, our OL got its ass handed to them by a team that would go on to lose the AFC Championship game.

 

Don't measure Bills success when we beat up on a 5 win team in October.  Measure it by what we do in the post season.  Our record there is shaky at best, for a team that is expected to WIN THE SUPER BOWL.

 

 

 

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, ClemsonBills said:

While the salary cap can really be manipulated, it still exists…

Lol. Fans worrying about salary caps.

[YodaMan79]

Why would the FO extend a 30+ year old WR who hasn't produced at an elite level in two years?  Very rarely in football does a player return to peak form 2-3 years after the fact.  This Hopkins and OBJ talk is fantasy football banter from 2018.  

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Definitely. The Saints were 100mil over just last yr . Who did they lose? Now there signing Carr for 40mil per. The cap can be manipulated no doubt.

 There’s really not much left the Bills can do to create more cap space this season. Restructure of Tre White’s deal could net $6M. I don’t love that though. I expect him to return to form this season, but the Bills can move on from him next off-season if he doesn’t. A restructure makes that tougher.

 

Dawkins has room, but they re-did his last season and he’d likely insist on an extension this off-season if Beane asked him to create some space. I love Dawkins, but there were real concerns about him being in proper shape the last couple seasons. I make him earn that extension first.

 

Oliver could theoretically be traded, but we would not net much in return and then we would need to find a 3T to replace him. That would eat up some of the savings - if we could even find one at this point.

 

So while the Bills could find ways to squeeze out some more space this year, none look like good options. I think they stand pat and look for a reasonably priced MLB and then some bargain FAs. 

[In Summary]

Handing out draft picks like Halloween candy is a no-go. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I wouldn't.  The offense can't give Henry enough touches.  Cook and Hines need to see the field to be part of the passing game. 

 

Diggs is the team prima donna, and I wouldn't put another in the receiver room. The Diggs-Hopkins show would be a distraction. 

 

If I were going to stretch, it would have been for a stud offensive lineman. 

And there's your perfect answer to this thread.  It's fun to dream but not even remotely realistic.  Whatever money left needs to go to OL.

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I’m hearing the Titans want a 2nd and a day 3 Pk for Henry and the Cards want a 3rd and something else for Hopkins.

Where are you hearing this?

[T master]

49 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

D Hop and Robinson in round 1 may be a good replica of this without getting Henry’s money and need for 15 carries to get into a rhythm.  Draft OL in 2nd and 4th in this case. 

 

I feel the same the Bills could handle the rookie contract much easier than having Henry's money added to it & i think if Beane could trade Oliver & his cap hist o Az he would have already done it .

 

Oliver is a average player but a team that has the money & a need to upgrade to their D he could be a good fit for them but everything has to come together just that way & the one thing is if Beane does put this out there how will Oliver react to it ?

 

His money would be guaranteed so after finding out that Beane was using him as trade bait would he actually play hard or would he just show up to collect a pay check & be a liability ? So there is a lot to consider and I think it would have to be a team that came to Beane with this idea & not the other way around because of the possibility of what could happen .

[NC-billsfan!]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I wouldn't.  The offense can't give Henry enough touches.  Cook and Hines need to see the field to be part of the passing game. 

 

Diggs is the team prima donna, and I wouldn't put another in the receiver room. The Diggs-Hopkins show would be a distraction. 

 

If I were going to stretch, it would have been for a stud offensive lineman. 

Agreed, plus I don’t think Dorsey has proven he can make all these dynamic pieces work together.

[NC-billsfan!]

1 hour ago, Billz4ever said:

Even if you cut Oliver, it still counts as dead cap.  

 

You're now saying we can just cut him, but in another breath say we can trade him?

 

You're saying a guy we can just cut has trade value?

I hate being disrespectful by posting non Hopkins stuff, but I am interested in yours and others views on Oliver. I randomly chose to respond to your post. My point would be, why on earth would you trade Oliver in a contract year? This is when the first round “meh’s” come out to play. It’s payday. He will probably be a beast next year, let’s ride it and see him out the door as they get paid a ton to revert to their former selves. See Phillips and Shaq. Thanks for posting. Go Bills!

[Dablitzkrieg]

Hopkins is going to end up in KC

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

That was my point that it depends how much they were willing to accomodate Henry. Hence "it would be stretch" and "its a narrow road".  Not sure how to help you understand further. 

 

Likely the only teams that would be interested in Oliver would be a team in a rebuild mode and has the money to take a chance on him.   If he has a good year he could be the centerpiece of the D line and sign him to a new contract.  If he doesn't work out and plays better, they let him go.  BUT likely going to get a poor return for him as teams are taking on over paid contract.  Or maybe a contending team that has a big hole at DT.  Could have a better chance on getting a better return by waiting till August and maybe a contender loses their DT for season to injury.

 

Kind of like how we signed Star 5 years ago.  He was a FA so didn't give up anything, but took a chance on him being the seasoned vet to build around.  It didn't work out too well as good mediocre return, though do think he provided more value than stat sheet showed.

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

If he has a good year he could be the centerpiece of the D line and sign him to a new contract.

He is going to be a free agent. If he has a good year on the Bills another team can offer him the same contract.  Oliver is only worth his current salary. If he was released outright, no one is likely signing him for more than $10mm this season.  So teams aren't going to give up compensation for the same luxury.

[TheBeaneBandit]

5 minutes ago, NC-billsfan! said:

I hate being disrespectful by posting non Hopkins stuff, but I am interested in yours and others views on Oliver. I randomly chose to respond to your post. My point would be, why on earth would you trade Oliver in a contract year? This is when the first round “meh’s” come out to play. It’s payday. He will probably be a beast next year, let’s ride it and see him out the door as they get paid a ton to revert to their former selves. See Phillips and Shaq. Thanks for posting. Go Bills!

Yeah in an ideal world we could sign Oliver to a "prove it" mini extension to lower his hit this year. But the world is probably fantasyland lol.

[Billz4ever]

11 minutes ago, NC-billsfan! said:

I hate being disrespectful by posting non Hopkins stuff, but I am interested in yours and others views on Oliver. I randomly chose to respond to your post. My point would be, why on earth would you trade Oliver in a contract year? This is when the first round “meh’s” come out to play. It’s payday. He will probably be a beast next year, let’s ride it and see him out the door as they get paid a ton to revert to their former selves. See Phillips and Shaq. Thanks for posting. Go Bills!

I think it's abundantly clear Oliver hasn't lived up to what the team expected from him when they took him at #9 overall.  Having said that, I think it would be difficult to find a team willing to take on his $11M salary going into this year.  I think we're stuck with him for this year and we just have to hope for the best and that he has a breakout season in a contract year.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Lots of smoke for Hopkins to Dallas. 
 

Me, personally, I’d rather try to sign OBJ at 2yr/30M without giving up picks than trade for Hopkins. 
 

The ultimate all-in move for me (that doesn’t mortgage the future)

 

-Trade Oliver to recoup our Day 3 pick / clear 10M

-Sign OBJ 

 

-Trade for Henry / extend past this year 

 

-Extend Hyde to match Po

-Extend Daquan Jones

We still retain our RD1, RD3 and three Day3 picks to address LB, Safety depth, OL & DL. 
 

Two year window with:

 

Diggs/OBJ

Henry

Von

Hyde/Poyer

White

Morse(?)/Dawkins

 

Then a whole bunch of cap starts coming off the books as we look to retool around Allen. 

 

I believe these moves you post are the ones that will put the Bills over the top

[NC-billsfan!]

3 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Yeah in an ideal world we could sign Oliver to a "prove it" mini extension to lower his hit this year. But the world is probably fantasyland lol.

That would be ideal. But I envision him playing like a monster this year to get paid mega bucks on his next contract. I believe he will be good to very good this year and there will be no way to afford him next year. He’s essentially Tremaine. Someone’s gonna pay him and it won’t be us. But let’s not get rid of him now because I’d bet the house he’s gonna have a big year. Let’s use it for the SB push then get a decent comp pick.

[wppete]

We can’t afford Hopkins. Maybe Henry if Beane works his magic. 

[NC-billsfan!]

6 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

I don't think it can really be argued that Oliver hasn't lived up to what the team expected from him when they took him at #9 overall.  Having said that, I think it would be difficult to find a team willing to take on his $11M salary going into this year.  I think we're stuck with him and we just have to hope for the best.  

See my response to TheBeaneBandit. I agree, he’s not going anywhere. But I think next year at this time 11 million might look like a deal.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

There’s definitely enough touches for everyone there offense should have at least 70 plus plays a game. There probably not even going to punt on average more then once per game. Plus these guys all would love to give a little to win the ultimate prize which is a Super Bowl . Diggs and Hopkins won’t have issues they want to win and they still can get there 150 targets each . It’s win win situation 

That's just wishing away the problems.  As others have said, Henry is only useful if you give him a lot of carries.   He has to pound away, play after play, and he is not a threat in the passing game.   He simply isn't useful, and never has been, as an all-purpose back in a role like Motor's role.  And if you think Hopkins and Diggs isn't a potential problem, you really haven't been paying attention to their careers.  They both want the ball, and they're both vocal about it in their ways.   Both expect to be the lead dog.  To suggest that their personalities are going to change because they want to win the Super Bowl is ignoring reality.

41 minutes ago, NC-billsfan! said:

Agreed, plus I don’t think Dorsey has proven he can make all these dynamic pieces work together.

Another good point.  Dorsey wasn't good enough with the cast of characters he had, and that cast of characters was good enough.  

 

Dorsey is the answer to the offense in 2023, Dorsey and the offensive line.   

[NastyNateSoldiers]

55 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Double News Flash:  Beane hasn't gotten it all right, not even close. And that's why we have regressed the last 2 consecutive seasons and still failed to make a SB appearance in Josh's career sweet spot.

 

To date, these guys HAVE decided our OL is good enough, but that's been wrong.  If they slap a few band aids on it again, we'll be in trouble.

By the way, in our last game of the season, the one that mattered most, our OL got its ass handed to them by a team that would go on to lose the AFC Championship game.

 

Don't measure Bills success when we beat up on a 5 win team in October.  Measure it by what we do in the post season.  Our record there is shaky at best, for a team that is expected to WIN THE SUPER BOWL.

 

 

 

I agree with u I was just responding to what the Bills believe is the shape of there Oline . I don’t believe they were as bad as some make them out to be . I realize Josh makes them look better at times but there’s also the times we’re Josh takes to long to get rid of the ball. The Bills will use a couple pks on the Oline in the middle of the draft a couple players to develop. There not using there high pks or cap space to do that’s all I’m saying . 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's just wishing away the problems.  As others have said, Henry is only useful if you give him a lot of carries.   He has to pound away, play after play, and he is not a threat in the passing game.   He simply isn't useful, and never has been, as an all-purpose back in a role like Motor's role.  And if you think Hopkins and Diggs isn't a potential problem, you really haven't been paying attention to their careers.  They both want the ball, and they're both vocal about it in their ways.   Both expect to be the lead dog.  To suggest that their personalities are going to change because they want to win the Super Bowl is ignoring reality.

Another good point.  Dorsey wasn't good enough with the cast of characters he had, and that cast of characters was good enough.  

 

Dorsey is the answer to the offense in 2023, Dorsey and the offensive line.   

Absolutely not I’ve seen Henry gash teams from the start of the game. He doesn’t need to be feed too get going that’s completely false . Now playing with the Bills is also much different then facing 8/9 man boxes in Tenn so he would be much more efficient playing for us. The Bills lead the league in yards before contact for RBs in 2022 . Even if they stay in the top 10 in that category facing light boxes Henry would consistently get over 120yds playing for Bills on 18/20 touches per game. He would dominate no doubt about it and there’s plenty of plays for everyone to get there touches as long as the offense is moving the ball and with these additions as long as there healthy they should average upwards of 70+ plays a week on offense.