dave mcbride Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Have at it: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/02/22/top-quarterback-contracts-salary-cap-misconception-space 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 About halfway down the article a reminder of my favourite cap fact and one that bears repeating often....... "Cap is just accounting." 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 So, cap jail is kind of like Otis in Mayberry? You can just grab the key and let yourself out? 4 10 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 We're not in "cap jail" because of a QB contract anyway. We're in perceived cap jail because of the perception that we won't trade Oliver and must re-sign Edmunds. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Great article, and very true. I have also seen some analysts say that Allen's contract is already a bargain, and he'll probably be more in the range of the 10th highest QB pay in just a year or 2. Beane has some flaws, but I think he's kind of a wizard w/ the cap, at least so far. I trust him to be able to work the dollars so we'll always be able to surround Allen w/ a competitive team. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) Let me manage the money, I guarantee big savings.... Players can buy their own uniforms and No more Gatorade, drink water . Edited February 22, 2023 by HOUSE 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Yes, it is "just accounting", but sooner or later, you have to pay the piper. Under a rookie contract, a 1st round QB is costing < $10m/yr cap. Assuming he pans out, his next contract is gonna avg $40-$50m. That extra $30m or whatever is PRECISELY the $ you need to sign your other premium/elite players. Yes, the bottom 1/2 of your roster doesn't cost much cap wise (I think he's generous in his estimate, as he seems to be short a few player & you also have to pay all your injury replacements & presumably all your cuts w/ guaranteed contracts) Having that QB on his costly contract means that you can't afford 2 or 3 other costly contracts; in our case that means some combination of Edmunds, Poyer, Singletary &/or some starting quality FAs that we'll be unable to sign) 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Any cap problems that the Bills have right now comes from overpaying on the defensive side. Look at our D line. All that money put into it and we get nothing come playoff time. Put the money into a better Offensive line and more weapons for our franchise quarterback. Then the Bills will be dangerous come playoff time. Also, in my humble opinion, they need a an upgrade from Frazier. 6 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Andrew Brandt is one of my favorites in terms of the business of the NFL. He used to have a weekly stint with Ross Tucker each Wednesday morning at around 6:30 am EST. He was always so informative evaluating and educating the NFLR audience on these topics. He’s the farthest from the hot take uneducated POV. An attorney and former business guy for the Packers forever and now with so many outlets, he’s like EF Hutton. When he talks, I listen. Thanks OP for sharing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: Have at it: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/02/22/top-quarterback-contracts-salary-cap-misconception-space Lots of guessing rather than taking time to look at rosters. That is cop-out, a tired excuse and bulls--- Quote NFL team rosters have varying numbers of players on rookie contracts, but my best estimate is between 50% and 65% of NFL rosters are players under their first NFL contract. Let’s say there are 30 such players on a team’s roster, and we’ll say that, conservatively, each player has a cap charge of $1 million. That is a cumulative cap charge of $30 million for more than half the team. Math for people who do not want to do work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 14 minutes ago, HOUSE said: Let me manage the cap, I guarantee big savings.... Plus, the players can buy their own uniforms. No more Gatorade, drink water "Sorry, Tremaine. Terry left his wallet on his private jet." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 One thing I can see happening in the next CBA is teams similar to what the NBA has getting the Larry Bird exemption deal where they can place say 3 or 4 players as cornerstone franchise pieces and those players they can pay more then anyone else and it won’t have difference in the teams cap structure or something like it as salaries keep getting out of hand for QBs 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 55 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said: One thing I can see happening in the next CBA is teams similar to what the NBA has getting the Larry Bird exemption deal where they can place say 3 or 4 players as cornerstone franchise pieces and those players they can pay more then anyone else and it won’t have difference in the teams cap structure or something like it as salaries keep getting out of hand for QBs That will never happen. All of the other three major sports employs a great deal less players and although they have guaranteed contracts, it’s not a 53 or should I say a 69 man roster including PS. These owners love this cap as it’s a hard edit, and a hard cap. There are certainly manipulations in Terms of cash over cap, and converting roster to signing bonuses. The owners don’t want exemptions as that is less profit, and they expend a ton to buy a franchise. They get incredible tax exemptions, but they also expend a great deal of cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17islongenough Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Only cap hell if you pay an average qb 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Cap jail or hell or whatever term fans want to use only happens when a team goes way in to win it all. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Teams like KC and Buffalo have to let some high dollar players walk. KC couldn't keep Hill unless they let someone else goes. Bills have decisions similar to that with Poyer, Edmunds and even a guy like Oliver. Beane will work through it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st&ten Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 2 hours ago, HOUSE said: Let me manage the money, I guarantee big savings.... Players can buy their own uniforms and No more Gatorade, drink water . What about those expensive mouth guards ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) Great piece!!! But not really mentioned or even implied in the piece is, "What are you getting for your money?" (Cash in particular, but Cap also, Contracts in general) You have to have talent to compete regardless of where it comes from. Whether it walks in from stocking supermarket shelves, as Undrafted Free Agents, 6th & 7th Round draft picks, 4th & 5th Round draft picks, or Day 1 & 2 draft picks, Veteran Free Agents, etc. But the most expensive ones are Veteran Free Agents. When those don't perform and you haven't been able to get the required play from your draftees, that's when cap issues begin to mount, and when the amount of money going out isn't coming back to you. That's when the team's that are getting back from what they spent will outperform you. Edited February 22, 2023 by PBF81 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 2 hours ago, HOUSE said: Let me manage the money, I guarantee big savings.... Players can buy their own uniforms and No more Gatorade, drink water . Ralph? That you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 3 hours ago, SCBills said: We're not in "cap jail" because of a QB contract anyway. We're in perceived cap jail because of the perception that we won't trade Oliver and must re-sign Edmunds immense waste by Beane in free agency since 2018. Beane has really struggled to find value in UFA........that is why they are cap strapped. Their drafts have been better than average and he's gotten good value on his own re-signs..........in a league where you can roll over cap the sheer volume of dollars thrown away on bad UFA decisions has put them into creative accounting mode a couple years earlier than they should be. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Honestly those saying the cap doesn't matter at all and those saying the cap is a major issue are both incorrect really. The reality is that it really lands somewhere in the middle and other factors lend to both. Yes, it is true that it is possible for some teams who are tight on cap space or even over the cap can make maneuvers to manipulate their cap space to free up enough to make the moves they want. However, that does not mean it universally works in every situation, it has no future potential ramifications, or that it is limitless in how much cap space they can magically free up in one offseason. It is absolutely possible that teams who make these kinds of maneuvers can later find themselves in an unsurmountable cap jail situation. Does not mean they always will, but cap jail is a real thing that teams and GM's can find themselves in through poor cap management, bad contracts, and poor roster decisions. This is why cap management is an important skill set of a GM despite people falsely believing the cap doesn't matter. If your GM doesn't manage and maneuver it properly, abuses it, etc..then down the road ramifications can be significant. Which is why I always laugh at people who think it doesn't matter, because it very much does and its honestly one of the most important parts of the GM's job. And a GM who is good at cap management can definitely minimize the restrictions of the cap and make it feel less rigid or constricting. That being said, I have no concerns about us as Beane has been very good at how he has managed the cap, contract structures, player retention, etc where the deals are both good for the players and provide Beane and the team the flexibility to keep a contending roster around Josh Allen. So if there is a move they want to make, I am confident in Beane's ability to put us in position to do it and also minimize future cap risk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 24 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Beane has really struggled to find value in UFA........that is why they are cap strapped. Their drafts have been better than average and he's gotten good value on his own re-signs..........in a league where you can roll over cap the sheer volume of dollars thrown away on bad UFA decisions has put them into creative accounting mode a couple years earlier than they should be. Could not agree more. Mitch Morse has been decent, but was slightly overpaid his first deal here (compared to his peers at the time). Beas and Brown were good value. He just got a good year out of Daquan Jones and he got a good (cheap) year out of Williams (the right tackle) and Quinton Spain (then they paid him, fell out with him and cut him in the space of 4 months). You put that against overpaying Trent Murphy, Tyler Kroft, OJ Howard (who we paid not to play), Vontae Davis (same again), Jordan Phillips (this season), Josh Norman, Vernon Butler, Mario Addison, Emmanuel Sanders, Quinton Jefferson, Star Lotulelei.... 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Honestly those saying the cap doesn't matter at all and those saying the cap is a major issue are both incorrect really. The reality is that it really lands somewhere in the middle and other factors lend to both. Yes, it is true that it is possible for some teams who are tight on cap space or even over the cap can make maneuvers to manipulate their cap space to free up enough to make the moves they want. However, that does not mean it universally works in every situation, it has no future potential ramifications, or that it is limitless in how much cap space they can magically free up in one offseason. It is absolutely possible that teams who make these kinds of maneuvers can later find themselves in an unsurmountable cap jail situation. Does not mean they always will, but cap jail is a real thing that teams and GM's can find themselves in through poor cap management, bad contracts, and poor roster decisions. This is why cap management is an important skill set of a GM despite people falsely believing the cap doesn't matter. If your GM doesn't manage and maneuver it properly, abuses it, etc..then down the road ramifications can be significant. Which is why I always laugh at people who think it doesn't matter, because it very much does and its honestly one of the most important parts of the GM's job. And a GM who is good at cap management can definitely minimize the restrictions of the cap and make it feel less rigid or constricting. That being said, I have no concerns about us as Beane has been very good at how he has managed the cap, contract structures, player retention, etc where the deals are both good for the players and provide Beane and the team the flexibility to keep a contending roster around Josh Allen. So if there is a move they want to make, I am confident in Beane's ability to put us in position to do it and also minimize future cap risk. That cap does matter. Anyone saying the cap doesn't matter is wrong. But it is just accounting. You have to be clever at accounting just like real accountants. And just like real accountancy it is easier the more cash you have. If you have a rich owner who is willing to spend cash now for cap relief and you have good cap management (and to be fair I think Overdorf though heavily criticised in the Ralph days has always been a good cap manager) then you can retain a lot of flexibility with your roster even when you are paying a franchise QB and a lot of guys. I always look at Tennessee as a team who run a very vanilla cap management methodology and it hurts the team. It cost them AJ Brown. And while the GM carried the can the real responsibility sits with an ownership that isn't willing, or maybe able, to pony up the readies. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Matter_What Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Could not agree more. Mitch Morse has been decent, but was slightly overpaid his first deal here (compared to his peers at the time). Beas and Brown were good value. He just got a good year out of Daquan Jones and he got a good (cheap) year out of Williams (the right tackle) and Quinton Spain (then they paid him, fell out with him and cut him in the space of 4 months). You put that against overpaying Trent Murphy, Tyler Kroft, OJ Howard (who we paid not to play), Vontae Davis (same again), Jordan Phillips (this season), Josh Norman, Vernon Butler, Mario Addison, Emmanuel Sanders, Quinton Jefferson, Star Lotulelei.... Lol knowing your posting history I wonder how could you possibly forgot Saffold Edited February 22, 2023 by No_Matter_What 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 minute ago, No_Matter_What said: Lol knowing your posting history I wonder how could you possibly forgot Saffold I have already obliterated the whole sorry episode from my memory clearly hahaha. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 3 hours ago, first_and_ten said: Any cap problems that the Bills have right now comes from overpaying on the defensive side. Look at our D line. All that money put into it and we get nothing come playoff time. Put the money into a better Offensive line and more weapons for our franchise quarterback. Then the Bills will be dangerous come playoff time. Also, in my humble opinion, they need a an upgrade from Frazier. Agreed. The cap is about allocation of money on resources and we have too many high paid players at positions you may or may not pay them at. Those positions are luxury positions and you have to be choosey with which positions you allocate those resources of cap to. 1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said: Cap jail or hell or whatever term fans want to use only happens when a team goes way in to win it all. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Teams like KC and Buffalo have to let some high dollar players walk. KC couldn't keep Hill unless they let someone else goes. Bills have decisions similar to that with Poyer, Edmunds and even a guy like Oliver. Beane will work through it. Agreed. Cap hell or jail is what New Orleans did multiple times. Not sure what the Rams cap situation will like in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: That cap does matter. Anyone saying the cap doesn't matter is wrong. But it is just accounting. You have to be clever at accounting just like real accountants. And just like real accountancy it is easier the more cash you have. If you have a rich owner who is willing to spend cash now for cap relief and you have good cap management (and to be fair I think Overdorf though heavily criticised in the Ralph days has always been a good cap manager) then you can retain a lot of flexibility with your roster even when you are paying a franchise QB and a lot of guys. I always look at Tennessee as a team who run a very vanilla cap management methodology and it hurts the team. It cost them AJ Brown. And while the GM carried the can the real responsibility sits with an ownership that isn't willing, or maybe able, to pony up the readies. Yeah, this is essentially what I was saying. And Tennessee is a great example of poor cap management costing them where as I feel like Beane is among the better GM's in the league at being smart about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Yeah, this is essentially what I was saying. And Tennessee is a great example of poor cap management costing them where as I feel like Beane is among the better GM's in the league at being smart about it. He is (although the Bills were good at it even when running the opposite model in the cash to cap days tbf, they have good people on that side). But Pegula is part of it too. The problem in Tennessee is ownership is not willing to pay up and it forces them into more of a cash to cap model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, Manther said: Agreed. Cap hell or jail is what New Orleans did multiple times. Not sure what the Rams cap situation will like in the future. Not so great. They are over the cap by $16M and they got a lot of UFAs they need to make decisions on. Not to mention that at draft time they got only picks in 2, 3, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7. If Stafford isn't back to his former self, it could get tough for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 4 hours ago, Success said: Great article, and very true. I have also seen some analysts say that Allen's contract is already a bargain, and he'll probably be more in the range of the 10th highest QB pay in just a year or 2. Beane has some flaws, but I think he's kind of a wizard w/ the cap, at least so far. I trust him to be able to work the dollars so we'll always be able to surround Allen w/ a competitive team. He is very good at working the numbers. He is just not good at selecting free agents or drafting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, newcam2012 said: He is very good at working the numbers. He is just not good at selecting free agents or drafting. I think it is a tad harsh on his drafting which isn't perfect but compares well with his peers. But it is worth remembering Beane is not a GM from a scouting background. He is from the football ops side by trade. So maybe not surprising his track record on that side is more impressive. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Could not agree more. Mitch Morse has been decent, but was slightly overpaid his first deal here (compared to his peers at the time). Beas and Brown were good value. He just got a good year out of Daquan Jones and he got a good (cheap) year out of Williams (the right tackle) and Quinton Spain (then they paid him, fell out with him and cut him in the space of 4 months). You put that against overpaying Trent Murphy, Tyler Kroft, OJ Howard (who we paid not to play), Vontae Davis (same again), Jordan Phillips (this season), Josh Norman, Vernon Butler, Mario Addison, Emmanuel Sanders, Quinton Jefferson, Star Lotulelei.... .......Nsekhe, Klein, Saffold.......all guys who somehow got $6M aav or more as well. It's really a combination of big wastes AND a high volume of nickel and dime mistakes that added up on the pro side. Even things like the $15M they wasted trading for Kelvin Benjamin and Corey Coleman(for a 2 week tryout) was real cap space that would go a long way toward getting the Bills back to the cap today. The Bills pro personnel department has been pretty ineffective under Beane. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said: .......Nsekhe, Klein, Saffold.......all guys who somehow got $6M aav or more as well. It's really a combination of big wastes AND a high volume of nickel and dime mistakes that added up on the pro side. Even things like the $15M they wasted trading for Kelvin Benjamin and Corey Coleman(for a 2 week tryout) was real cap space that would go a long way toward getting the Bills back to the cap today. The Bills pro personnel department has been pretty ineffective under Beane. Lord was Nsekhe that much too? Bedknobs and broomsticks. Edited February 22, 2023 by GunnerBill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Could not agree more. Mitch Morse has been decent, but was slightly overpaid his first deal here (compared to his peers at the time). Beas and Brown were good value. He just got a good year out of Daquan Jones and he got a good (cheap) year out of Williams (the right tackle) and Quinton Spain (then they paid him, fell out with him and cut him in the space of 4 months). You put that against overpaying Trent Murphy, Tyler Kroft, OJ Howard (who we paid not to play), Vontae Davis (same again), Jordan Phillips (this season), Josh Norman, Vernon Butler, Mario Addison, Emmanuel Sanders, Quinton Jefferson, Star Lotulelei.... I think you are being a bit overly harsh here. All teams sign guys like these. And many of these guys were the early days where Beane was both a new GM and in the midst of having to clean up a mess of a roster and cap use by his predecessor. And many of these were short term or 1 year deals with no future cap ramifications brought in to help field a competitive team without creating cap issues that would prevent the team from improving in the subsequent years. Not to mention, several played key roles in high ranked offenses and defenses that helped us win our division, reach the playoffs, and win playoff games. Guys like Morse, Sanders, Beas, Brown, Williams all started or played key roles in our offense that has been amongst the highest scoring in the league the past 3 seasons. Guys like Addision and Star were starters on a defense that was ranked #1 in the NFL their last year here, and Phillips was good contributor for us this year on a defense than ranked #2 in the NFL despite the crazy slew of injuries to the defense. Is every signing a home run, absolutely not, but no GM has a perfect record. But Beane has a better track record than most. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I think you are being a bit overly harsh here. All teams sign guys like these. And many of these guys were the early days where Beane was both a new GM and in the midst of having to clean up a mess of a roster and cap use by his predecessor. And many of these were short term or 1 year deals with no future cap ramifications brought in to help field a competitive team without creating cap issues that would prevent the team from improving in the subsequent years. Not to mention, several played key roles in high ranked offenses and defenses that helped us win our division, reach the playoffs, and win playoff games. Guys like Morse, Sanders, Beas, Brown, Williams all started or played key roles in our offense that has been amongst the highest scoring in the league the past 3 seasons. Guys like Addision and Star were starters on a defense that was ranked #1 in the NFL their last year here, and Phillips was good contributor for us this year on a defense than ranked #2 in the NFL despite the crazy slew of injuries to the defense. Is every signing a home run, absolutely not, but no GM has a perfect record. But Beane has a better track record than most. Phillips was a good contributor? What? In week 1? What about the other 17 weeks? Waste of money. Edited February 22, 2023 by GunnerBill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think it is a tad harsh on his drafting which isn't perfect but compares well with his peers. But it is worth remembering Beane is not a GM from a scouting background. He is from the football ops side by trade. So maybe not surprising his track record on that side is more impressive. I think rankings show that we fall right in the middle in terms of drafting over the past 5 years. And that's kind of how I see it. I think evaluating Beane as a drafter also has to take into consideration how slowly we sometimes bring rookies & younger players along. This coaching staff seems a bit cautious in that regard, at least for me. I see Elam, Cook and Shakir as all being very quality starters for the Bills next year - and really could have been in '22. Benford could be also if he makes a successful move to safety. It doesn't look great - but it also wouldn't shock me a bit if Bernard turned into a very good sub at some point, and special teamer. Other drafts have been more hit or miss, but it's kind of interesting to me that players like Teller, Hodgins and Zay Jones have panned out better elsewhere. 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Phillips was a good contributor? What? In week 1? What about the other 17 weeks? Waste of money. He was very good until he got hurt. He was basically playing w/ 1 arm the last half of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Success said: I think rankings show that we fall right in the middle in terms of drafting over the past 5 years. And that's kind of how I see it. I think evaluating Beane as a drafter also has to take into consideration how slowly we sometimes bring rookies & younger players along. This coaching staff seems a bit cautious in that regard, at least for me. I see Elam, Cook and Shakir as all being very quality starters for the Bills next year - and really could have been in '22. Benford could be also if he makes a successful move to safety. It doesn't look great - but it also wouldn't shock me a bit if Bernard turned into a very good sub at some point, and special teamer. Other drafts have been more hit or miss, but it's kind of interesting to me that players like Teller, Hodgins and Zay Jones have panned out better elsewhere. Actually the numbers show them top 3 between 2017 and 2019 (okay only two years of Beane) and top 12 since then. That is what the numbers show. @JGMcD2 has posted them. Edited February 22, 2023 by GunnerBill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Lord was Nsekhe that much too? Bedknobs and broomsticks. 2 years.......$14.5M......$7.7M gtd. Beane was paying backups $6M plus and getting patted on the back for it for the most part. I understand that the Bills weren't much of a destination after they gutted the roster of all recent 1st and 2nd round picks in the name of culture and passed on addressing their QB problem in year 1..........but he paid double for everything in subsequent seasons and really struck out big time in pro personnel. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said: Honestly those saying the cap doesn't matter at all and those saying the cap is a major issue are both incorrect really. The reality is that it really lands somewhere in the middle and other factors lend to both. Yes, it is true that it is possible for some teams who are tight on cap space or even over the cap can make maneuvers to manipulate their cap space to free up enough to make the moves they want. However, that does not mean it universally works in every situation, it has no future potential ramifications, or that it is limitless in how much cap space they can magically free up in one offseason. It is absolutely possible that teams who make these kinds of maneuvers can later find themselves in an unsurmountable cap jail situation. Does not mean they always will, but cap jail is a real thing that teams and GM's can find themselves in through poor cap management, bad contracts, and poor roster decisions. This is why cap management is an important skill set of a GM despite people falsely believing the cap doesn't matter. If your GM doesn't manage and maneuver it properly, abuses it, etc..then down the road ramifications can be significant. Which is why I always laugh at people who think it doesn't matter, because it very much does and its honestly one of the most important parts of the GM's job. And a GM who is good at cap management can definitely minimize the restrictions of the cap and make it feel less rigid or constricting. That being said, I have no concerns about us as Beane has been very good at how he has managed the cap, contract structures, player retention, etc where the deals are both good for the players and provide Beane and the team the flexibility to keep a contending roster around Josh Allen. So if there is a move they want to make, I am confident in Beane's ability to put us in position to do it and also minimize future cap risk. Great post. I came to say the same. New Orleans proved you can navigate huge amounts of negative cap space. But they also proved that the Bill will eventually come due over the course of one or multiple seasons. Ultimately the Bills have to make some moves that may make the roster worse and in 2024 KC has $85M more cap dollars than the Buffalo Bills. And no matter how much they try, they won’t be able to outspend that difference between them next off season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 2 hours ago, 1st&ten said: What about those expensive mouth guards ? 1 per season 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Mango said: Great post. I came to say the same. New Orleans proved you can navigate huge amounts of negative cap space. But they also proved that the Bill will eventually come due over the course of one or multiple seasons. Ultimately the Bills have to make some moves that may make the roster worse and in 2024 KC has $85M more cap dollars than the Buffalo Bills. And no matter how much they try, they won’t be able to outspend that difference between them next off season. It's worrisome that KC has so much cap going for them. That said - I'd also say they overachieved this year. I didn't think they were as good as previous years, despite the end result. They did the classic "get hot at the right time" thing, and they also benefitted more than Cincy or Buffalo from the forfeit-game fallout. Both Cincy and Buffalo beat them during the season. It just seemed to fall there way at the end there, and I felt like they were a little lucky to get by both the Jags and Cincy, and also Philly in the end (but luck is also a huge part of winning a title). Edited February 22, 2023 by Success 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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