When did this team forget how to tackle?

[sullim4]

I've seen terrible tackling performances before, but I think the first half tonight took the cake.  It seems like the defensive staff is telling the players to try to punch the ball out rather than make the tackle, and this is costing the team significant yards allowed after contact.  They cannot continue to do this - they will lose to good teams in the playoffs playing defense like this.

 

I see several threads trying to go after Dorsey in this game... but I was a lot more disappointed in the defensive performance, especially in the running game.

[Ya Digg?]

I said to a friend tonight that I would hate to see but actually love to see how many yards teams have gained against the Bills this year after contact. They have to be giving up the most yards after contact and it’s not even close 

[VaMilBill]

Probably around week 7. Ever since the bye, I feel as though we’ve been horrible at tackling. 

[BillsfaninSB]

2020.   It’s been a problem with McDermott teams. 

[gobills404]

Outside of the first 6-8 weeks of this season I don’t think McD has never had a good tackling defense

[benderbender]

I’ll settle for our DBs not helping their WRs catch the ball a la Jefferson

[cgg716]

6 minutes ago, NUT said:

The Bills high D ranking the last few seasons has been a bit of a farce. 3rd & long, can't stop the run when need to. Same broken record for years.

I've been mocked on this board for this take 

[VaMilBill]

7 minutes ago, NUT said:

The Bills high D ranking the last few seasons has been a bit of a farce. 3rd & long, can't stop the run when need to. Same broken record for years.

The third and long issue has really only popped up this season. I don’t really recall it being a factor the last two years. In fact, I think we were the best defense on third down last year. 

[KDIGGZ]

They aren't allowed to tackle in practice so they form bad habits. If you look closely, they are just hugging the runner up high like they do in practice and then of course they easily break free. You play like you practice. I don't know what the answer is because you can't take them to the ground in practice but you still have to practice good form. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by KDIGGZ

[What a Tuel]

5 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

I've been mocked on this board for this take 

 

As you should be. The idea that the defense isn't good is a farce. Good defenses have bad games. The 49ers, the best defense right now got blown out by not only Kansas City, but also by the Falcons.

[cgg716]

2 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

As you should be. The idea that the defense isn't good is a farce. Good defenses have bad games. The 49ers, the best defense right now got blown out by not only Kansas City, but also by the Falcons.

They have NEVER held down a good offense, NEVER. Piling up stats against Zach Wilson doesn't make you any good. That's your misconception 

[Doc Brown]

We've never been a good tackling team under McDermott.  We do a lot else well though.

[What a Tuel]

Just now, cgg716 said:

They have NEVER held down a good offense, NEVER. Piling up stats against Zach Wilson doesn't make you any good. That's your misconception 

 

Held down the Chiefs that score 29.5 points per game to 20 points but ok....

 

[cgg716]

3 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Held down the Chiefs that score 29.5 points per game to 20 points but ok....

 

KC holds back. Did the same thing last year and ran us over in January 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I think Hamlin crashes a lot and when he misses the carrier is already into the second level with momentum and our guys just can’t stop them. 

[Malazan]

Thursday, October 20th 5:34:16 PM

[cgg716]

5 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Held down the Chiefs that score 29.5 points per game to 20 points but ok....

 

Last year was the best example, gave up 17.5 ppg on D, and still managed to give up 33, 34, and 45 in losses to good teams, with good run games notably. And that doesn't include the 42 to KC. And that defense is still the steel freaking curtain compared to this shitshow 

17 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

As you should be. The idea that the defense isn't good is a farce. Good defenses have bad games. The 49ers, the best defense right now got blown out by not only Kansas City, but also by the Falcons.

Also SF only gave up 28 to the falcons, plenty of times Josh would kill for 28 over the last few years 

[What a Tuel]

Just now, cgg716 said:

KC holds back. Did the same thing last year and ran us over in January 

 

Ok. How about:

 

Jets 20.3 points per game held to 12 points

Patriots 21.2 points per game held to 10 points

Lions 26.8 points per game held to 25 points

Browns 23.1 points per game held to 23 points

Vikings 24 points per game held to 33 points

Jets 20.3 points per game held to 20 points

Packers 20.2 points per game held to 17 points

Steelers 17.5 points per game held to 3 points

Ravens 23.2 points per game held to 20 points

Dolphins 24.3 points per game held to 21 points

Titans 18.5 points per game held to 7 points

Rams 16.8 points per game held to 10 points

[cgg716]

3 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Ok. How about:

 

Jets 20.3 points per game held to 12 points

Patriots 21.2 points per game held to 10 points

Lions 26.8 points per game held to 25 points

Browns 23.1 points per game held to 23 points

Vikings 24 points per game held to 33 points

Jets 20.3 points per game held to 20 points

Packers 20.2 points per game held to 17 points

Steelers 17.5 points per game held to 3 points

Ravens 23.2 points per game held to 20 points

Dolphins 24.3 points per game held to 21 points

Titans 18.5 points per game held to 7 points

Rams 16.8 points per game held to 10 points

They're are 3 good offenses on that list, 2 near the averages, one above it. Surely you won't come back to me in January and say...I don't know why they couldn't stop Mahomes, they shut down Kenny Pickett

[ALLEN1QB]

Bring back Rex!!

[What a Tuel]

Just now, cgg716 said:

They're are 3 good offenses on that list, 2 near the averages, one above it. Surely you won't come back to me in January and say...I don't know why they couldn't stop Mahomes, they shut down Kenny Pickett

 

Now you are arguing that they should stop the supposed best QB in the game? I mean yeah, I'd love it. Can any defense in the league do that? Bengals I guess? Not before spotting them 24 points in the post season....

[cgg716]

5 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Now you are arguing that they should stop the supposed best QB in the game? I mean yeah, I'd love it. Can any defense in the league do that? Bengals I guess? Not before spotting them 24 points in the post season....

If a supposedly top defense is given 36 points in a playoff game you should win. OR if twice within the regular season, your offense scores 30, and still loses, costing you home field, maybe that's an issue 

[What a Tuel]

1 minute ago, cgg716 said:

If a supposedly top defense is given 36 points in a playoff game you should win. OR if twice within the regular season, your offense scores 30, and still loses, costing you home field, maybe that's an issue 

 

Or if your offense scores 6 against the Jaguars? Or 15 against the Colts?

 

***** happens on both sides of the ball.

 

 

[cgg716]

Just now, What a Tuel said:

 

Or if your offense scores 6 against the Jaguars? Or 15 against the Colts?

 

***** happens on both sides of the ball.

 

 

Or if this year you give up a 13 Play 86 yard drive to Zach Wilson or 4th and 18 to Minn or 3rd and 22 for a TD in Miami

[JimmyNoodles]

Years ago. Tackling has been an issue for a long time. 

[cgg716]

3 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Or if your offense scores 6 against the Jaguars? Or 15 against the Colts?

 

***** happens on both sides of the ball.

 

 

You're right, it does, just a whole lot more on D. Could we ever do to a good QB what the Jags did that day? No chance in hell, our scheme is too plain, and it's goal isn't to actually dominate like that. It's to sit back and hope the other team screws up

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, sullim4 said:

I've seen terrible tackling performances before, but I think the first half tonight took the cake.  It seems like the defensive staff is telling the players to try to punch the ball out rather than make the tackle, and this is costing the team significant yards allowed after contact.  They cannot continue to do this - they will lose to good teams in the playoffs playing defense like this.

 

I see several threads trying to go after Dorsey in this game... but I was a lot more disappointed in the defensive performance, especially in the running game.

Most NFL teams do this same thing.  Same as many DB’s in pro and colleges don’t turn and find the ball anymore.  Techniques have gone downhill.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Ya Digg? said:

I said to a friend tonight that I would hate to see but actually love to see how many yards teams have gained against the Bills this year after contact. They have to be giving up the most yards after contact and it’s not even close 

Last week was terrible and tonight was just as bad. This defense especially the DB's have gotta improve.  They made Mostert look like Barry Sanders. Our entire D just didn't look inspired tonight. 

[bills11]

The tackling probably goes hand in hand with the way they play defense . The bills run one of the most conservative defensive schemes in the league. Just watch the way the 49ers aggresively fly to the ball we seem to always be relying on milano or edmunds to make the perfect tackle when they miss its bye bye 

[Gambit]

1 hour ago, cgg716 said:

KC holds back. Did the same thing last year and ran us over in January 

That actually might be the dumbest thing I've read on here. And that's pretty damn impressive.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, sullim4 said:

I've seen terrible tackling performances before, but I think the first half tonight took the cake.  It seems like the defensive staff is telling the players to try to punch the ball out rather than make the tackle, and this is costing the team significant yards allowed after contact.  They cannot continue to do this - they will lose to good teams in the playoffs playing defense like this.

 

I see several threads trying to go after Dorsey in this game... but I was a lot more disappointed in the defensive performance, especially in the running game.

It is not about tackling.  It is the speed of the Dolphins Receivers and RBs.  We are simply outmatched in that department

15 minutes ago, bills11 said:

The tackling probably goes hand in hand with the way they play defense . The bills run one of the most conservative defensive schemes in the league. Just watch the way the 49ers aggresively fly to the ball we seem to always be relying on milano or edmunds to make the perfect tackle when they miss its bye bye 

WE are really missing the Poyer-Hyde tandem in the backfield.

[cgg716]

25 minutes ago, Gambit said:

That actually might be the dumbest thing I've read on here. And that's pretty damn impressive.

Or maybe they do the thing our coaches suck at adjusting, but it's just as likely it's a combo of that, and not treating October like a Super bowl and being in cruise control. Not a new concept really.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, cgg716 said:

Or if this year you give up a 13 Play 86 yard drive to Zach Wilson or 4th and 18 to Minn or 3rd and 22 for a TD in Miami

Historically our defense has failed us much more than our offense.  Our last 3 playoff exits under Josh were all defensive meltdowns.  And even the 4 SB losses leaned defensive failure.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

36 minutes ago, bills11 said:

The tackling probably goes hand in hand with the way they play defense . The bills run one of the most conservative defensive schemes in the league. Just watch the way the 49ers aggresively fly to the ball we seem to always be relying on milano or edmunds to make the perfect tackle when they miss its bye bye 

49ers are very conservative also, they just do what they do very well. We’re a good defense, people overreact all the time. We do what we do very well also.

 

Tackling is definitely an issue. No excuses. Our safeties and CBs have been terrible all year in tackling. Others joined them tonight.
 

Tonight we saw the Bills coaching staff be as stubborn as ever with their defensive personnel. Taron Johnson was literally taking on OGs and FBs. I just feel Miami outmatched the Bills defensive coaches here. Bills staying in nickel vs 21 personnel is pretty ridiculous. I don’t understand why they can’t slide Taron Johnson outside for Dane Jackson and bring on AJ Klein in that situation.

 

 

[cgg716]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Historically our defense has failed us much more than our offense.  Our last 3 playoff exits under Josh were all defensive meltdowns.  And even the 4 SB losses leaned defensive failure.  

Exactly, and there's never been a single scheme adjustment made no matter how many failures we've seen 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, cgg716 said:

I've been mocked on this board for this take 

Last year I could see that and I think that was actually a majority opinion at the time but this year I’d disagree.  We’ve been through the meatgrinder this season scheduling wise and are still a top 10 defense in all the big defensive categories after tonight.  Even the ‘bad’ teams we’ve played like Detroit and Cleveland have had good offenses.  it’s been done mostly missing a ton of key defensive players too.  Tonight was the first night anyone has really looked good against us with Milano,edmunds, and poyer playing 

 

Miami is a tough team to stop when they’re getting good offensive line play and they had not been getting that the past few weeks down a healthy terron armstead.  They’re a completely different team with him in there…he didn’t look as healthy against the chargers and he was out in the 49ers game.  

Edited December 18, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Buffalo ill]

I started to notice the horrible tackling back when they lost to Houston in the playoffs.

[DrPJax]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Last week was terrible and tonight was just as bad. This defense especially the DB's have gotta improve.  They made Mostert look like Barry Sanders. Our entire D just didn't look inspired tonight. 

       Poyer said exactly those things in post game presser.  “ we need to improve , tackle better, and there are things we want back”.  So that’s from an elite , pro bowl safety.  But this is apparently inappropriate to even discuss any negatives the players themselves mention.  Stats are great , but mean nothing in an individual game ; any given Sunday ( or Saturday 😊) right?
 Based only on stats we should have never been behind , right, but stats do not reflect individual situations , just a later overall picture. Is that incorrect?  But I guess any critique , even those validated by players and coaches , are not appropriate discourse? I think there is a name for only tolerating one ideology, one train of thought. I believe there are countries based on that principle  , but I could be wrong as I am only human. The d did make some good stops at the end under pressure, so that’s good! 😀👍
 

Happy holidays, stay safe , please value your health as it can be fleeting!  Go Bills, happy Sunday to enjoy the win! 🎄

[Buffalo Barbarian]

When they eliminated contact in practice. That is the real problem and until that changes, tackling will suffer.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Historically our defense has failed us much more than our offense.  Our last 3 playoff exits under Josh were all defensive meltdowns.  And even the 4 SB losses leaned defensive failure.  

 

Nah. The 2020 AFCCG was offense first. Chris Jones wrecked that game. Houston the offense scored 19 points on the road in the playoffs. That is never getting it done. Offensive failure.

 

Defense was at fault in 2021, sure. Collapsed in the 4th Qrtr against the Chiefs.