Criticism of McD and coaching has reached insanity level…

[Da webster guy]

Head coach has two major jobs, be a leader and be a game coach.

 

McD gets an A for leadership, setting a high standard and holding everyone to it.  He's the real deal in that category.

 

As far as game management which includes a ton of things from time outs, reviews, adjustments, technique reminders for players, etc. McD either relies too heavily on his staff or not enough, but the 13 seconds defense was a lack of communication between staff and players that I believe cost us a Lombardi. 

 

In the MInny game, Cam Lewis is an undrafted backup FS who is good but STILL should have had multiple coaches look him in the eye before the 4th and 18 prayer and say CAM KNOCK IT DOWN, EVERYONE KNOCK IT DOWN.  Here is the 1st down marker, the ball is coming in this 10 yard patch of grass, All Dbacks look at me, knock the ball down!   If he does that, if his staff does that under his direction, we win that game and are ahead of Miami and more importantly KC right now.

 

Same with the Hail Murray, you are a coach that keeps preaching fundamentals but you need to communicate and reinforce them in critical situations or it will cost you games and possibly superbowls.

 

He was a good college player at a tiny school, and became a good DC and eventually a head coach but when he is facing Andy Reid or Belichick or even new guys like Vrable, he doesn't have a knack for critical situation control and communication.

 

I am glad he is our coach but hoping a more assertive DC comes in to replace Leslie and then Sean takes the Marv Levy role as leader and overall strategist but not game tactician.  These players are pro's but they're also jacked up 20 year olds running on adrenaline and still need game coaching.

 

 

[Sargent Hulka]

12 hours ago, eball said:

 

Way to miss the point.  How has coaching let the Bills down?

 

Really? How about 13 seconds!

[Sargent Hulka]

13 hours ago, eball said:

I know, I know, it’s a message board and not everyone has to agree about everything.  Debate and discussion are good.  It just seems to me that the coaching of this team is being questioned at an insane level.  The Bills are 8-3 and within 11 points of being undefeated.  Every starter on defense has missed time; they have not played ONE game with their presumed starting secondary intact.  Allen has a bum elbow.  They got a total of TWO full practices in over the past two weeks and yet won two games in five days.

 

They beat the Rams on the road (before we knew the Rams would stink).  They crushed the Titans.  They won at Baltimore in a gritty way.  They won at KC.

 

What the hell do people think McD should have been doing that he has not?  I still hear “well, he’s not a good gameday coach.”  Really?  He is ranked as one of the best 4th down decision makers in the league.  His time management has been stellar, saving timeouts for use at the ends of halves where the Bills have been excellent.

 

Should he be calling plays?  Is it Dorsey everyone is really upset about?  Well, Dorse is also learning on the job, and maybe I’m naive but I think it has been hard to gameplan the past two weeks with only two practices.  And yet, the offense is still putting up yards and points at very high levels.  The last couple of weeks the running game has showed up as well.

 

Summing up — I don’t get it.  At all.  And as far as I know, not one of you is in the locker room or on the practice field with this team.  My conclusion is that there are a lot of keyboard warriors with way too much time on their hands who expect 14-point wins weekly.  I would love to hear, specifically, what decisions some believe McD has made or not made that are responsible for the “predicament” we find ourselves in (tied for 1st).

 

I’m going to continue to enjoy this ride, knowing my team is one of the best in the league and still has every opportunity to bring home the ultimate prize.  I’m thrilled McD is our HC and Beane is our GM.

 

Go Bills!  17 and 3, BABY!!!!

 

Balderdash! If Allen doesn't make that throw to Diggs to set up the winning field goal, and the Bills lose that game, you don't post this, and all the de facto virtue- signalers giving you thumbs up, are commenting on how coaching lost us that game.

[SBbeliever]

13 hours ago, eball said:

I know, I know, it’s a message board and not everyone has to agree about everything.  Debate and discussion are good.  It just seems to me that the coaching of this team is being questioned at an insane level.  The Bills are 8-3 and within 11 points of being undefeated.  Every starter on defense has missed time; they have not played ONE game with their presumed starting secondary intact.  Allen has a bum elbow.  They got a total of TWO full practices in over the past two weeks and yet won two games in five days.

 

They beat the Rams on the road (before we knew the Rams would stink).  They crushed the Titans.  They won at Baltimore in a gritty way.  They won at KC.

 

What the hell do people think McD should have been doing that he has not?  I still hear “well, he’s not a good gameday coach.”  Really?  He is ranked as one of the best 4th down decision makers in the league.  His time management has been stellar, saving timeouts for use at the ends of halves where the Bills have been excellent.

 

Should he be calling plays?  Is it Dorsey everyone is really upset about?  Well, Dorse is also learning on the job, and maybe I’m naive but I think it has been hard to gameplan the past two weeks with only two practices.  And yet, the offense is still putting up yards and points at very high levels.  The last couple of weeks the running game has showed up as well.

 

Summing up — I don’t get it.  At all.  And as far as I know, not one of you is in the locker room or on the practice field with this team.  My conclusion is that there are a lot of keyboard warriors with way too much time on their hands who expect 14-point wins weekly.  I would love to hear, specifically, what decisions some believe McD has made or not made that are responsible for the “predicament” we find ourselves in (tied for 1st).

 

I’m going to continue to enjoy this ride, knowing my team is one of the best in the league and still has every opportunity to bring home the ultimate prize.  I’m thrilled McD is our HC and Beane is our GM.

 

Go Bills!  17 and 3, BABY!!!!

 

agree 100%  Good, solid coaching over a long, long season.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 hours ago, eball said:

 

Way to miss the point.  How has coaching let the Bills down?

 

Because the many on this board who are obviously over qualified to coach an nfl franchise had to pursue other more lucrative careers but still reserve the right to cast dispersions on their inferiors.  😂 

[quinnearlysghost88]

I wish we could go back to pre 2018 when we complained about not completing any 3rd downs, not having a 300-yard passer and not beating the Pats in the last 10 years. 

[The Red King]

11 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Because the many on this board who are obviously over qualified to coach an nfl franchise had to pursue other more lucrative careers but still reserve the right to cast dispersions on their inferiors.  😂 

 

I don't have to be a carpenter to recognize a shoddily built treehouse.  Likewise, people do not need to be NFL coaches to be able to criticize NFL coaches and players.  By your logic, since nobody here is a quarterback, not one fan here had the right to level a single complaint against Nathan Peterman after that Chargers game.

[SinceThe70s]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

 

He makes a good #3 WR.  As a #2 he is too hot and cold.  The great plays he makes are great, the bad plays are costly.  Where I don't like him is on the hands team.  As I noted above, Davis has a 10% drop rate!  That is not a guy you want on your hands team.  I would think that would be even more obvious given the fact that he muffed that onside kick, and it would have been Detroit ball had not one of his teammates bailed him out and punched the ball out of bounds.  His handling of that onside kick actually vindicates my view.  A guy that drops one in ten passes dropped an onside kick.  It's pattern recognition.  Davis has strengths, but sure hands is not one of them.

 

As I noted before, I am not one of the people clamoring for anyone to be fired.  Have not said that, here or anywhere else on the board.  I do, however, believe there are valid criticisms that can be leveled against the coaching staff.  Deciding to put a guy with a 10% drop rate on the hands-team was a mistake by McD that nearly cost us.  I disagree with the people calling to fire this staff, but I also disagree with people here that are acting like McD is one of the greatest coaches in the NFL.

 

Defending McD and acting like he is one of the greatest coaches in the NFL are not the same thing. I've seen a lot of the former, not so much of the latter.

[Rico]

As always, have to go to the bottom line, and I am happy with 8-3, especially considering all the injuries. Thanks, McD!

 

I do believe that if this team gets healthy going into the playoffs, no one is stopping them. It's all about how you finish the season.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Nice LAMP post @eball! 

 

Some of the complaints are certainly over the top but they will most likely be the 5th seed in the AFC after 14 weeks when the Dolphins beat the Texans tomorrow.

 

Because they came out flat after the bye......consistent with their annual mid-season slumps that have dashed their home field advantage hopes in each of their prior 3 seasons.   Same thing happened in 2017.   Coaching is the common denominator.

 

SO...

 

We beat the Ravens, Titans and Chiefs, all teams who could claim the #1 seed.

 

We still have FOUR divisional games, THREE at home, against the Cheatriots, Jests and Dullphins.

 

We have lost three games to teams with winning records only.

 

In what universe do you see the Bills not having a shot at the #1 when the very real possibility of us cementing the AFC East is at hand and a favorable schedule late?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

4 hours ago, todd said:

 

 

Do you watch the games? Even the most ignorant of fans can see his elbow is an issue. 

 

what’s been worse? The elbow or the decision making? He’s in a slump. Let’s not use the elbow as an excuse. He went into a slump last year too. Nothing new. He’ll get threw it.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Just now, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

what’s been worse? The elbow or the decision making? He’s in a slump. Let’s not use the elbow as an excuse. He went into a slump last year too. Nothing new. He’ll get threw it.

 

There was no elbow injury in the second half of the Green Bay game or the time in the Jets game where he threw the ball right to Sauce Gardner as well... some here forgot those convenient facts.

[somnus00]

13 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No it is a LAMP post, as my threads too are called.  If you are happy with the Bills and a fan of McD, you'll be all over these threads.

 

If you have been meh or down about the coaching, you'll think different.

And I don't disagree, but still the Bills have been off since the bye week.

 

We all hope this is just a lull, but ever since the second half of GB, just has not been good.

This is correct. I don't understand the eye roll emoji. Something does seem off. It's not all on coaching, but some of it is. Dorsey and Frazier have some adjustments to make. It's okay to say that, and it doesn't mean I want them fired. I'm actually a big fan of McDermott precisely because he's willing to learn and adapt his game. I'm confident he'll get the coachable issues straightened out.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

 

I don't have to be a carpenter to recognize a shoddily built treehouse.  Likewise, people do not need to be NFL coaches to be able to criticize NFL coaches and players.  By your logic, since nobody here is a quarterback, not one fan here had the right to level a single complaint against Nathan Peterman after that Chargers game.

Pretty much… sort of like how the people in the waiting room don’t get to weigh in on the surgical strategy.., you proved the point but I don’t think you see you did 

[BADOLBILZ]

30 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

SO...

 

We beat the Ravens, Titans and Chiefs, all teams who could claim the #1 seed.

 

We still have FOUR divisional games, THREE at home, against the Cheatriots, Jests and Dullphins.

 

We have lost three games to teams with winning records only.

 

In what universe do you see the Bills not having a shot at the #1 when the very real possibility of us cementing the AFC East is at hand and a favorable schedule late?

 

 

I guess you are responding to the wrong post because I never said anything in this thread even close to "the Bills don't have a shot at the #1" seed.

 

But it's a fact that they no longer control their own destiny for that critical #1 seed and the bye.

 

They've blown that lead..........and I wouldn't frame their schedule as favorable compared to that of the #1 seed Chiefs.

 

Right now there are 8 teams in the AFC with winning records.........the Bills have 5 of their remaining 6 games against them.  

 

The Chiefs have 7 games left and 5 are against teams with losing records. 

 

And all 8 of those teams think if we take care of our own business we will finish ahead of the Bills in the seeding. 

 

That's not where the Bills were projected to be.   They've been upset 3 times.   

 

Last season,  same issue.    Upset 5 times on the way to a 7-6 record thru 13 games.

 

And I'll add that you can be enjoying the season and you can be expecting a much better ending than finishing 5th in your conference......... but you can also be of the belief that they have failed to play up to their potential yet again........and that jeopardizes the goals of a team that's gone 0-4 on the road in the playoffs under this coaching staff. 

 

 

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I guess you are responding to the wrong post because I never said anything in this thread even close to "the Bills don't have a shot at the #1" seed.

 

But it's a fact that they no longer control their own destiny for that critical #1 seed and the bye.

 

They've blown that lead..........and I wouldn't frame their schedule as favorable compared to that of the #1 seed Chiefs.

 

Right now there are 8 teams in the AFC with winning records.........the Bills have 5 of their remaining 6 games against them.  

 

The Chiefs have 7 games left and 5 are against teams with losing records. 

 

And all 8 of those teams think if we take care of our own business we will finish ahead of the Bills in the seeding. 

 

That's not where the Bills were projected to be.   They've been upset 3 times.   

 

Last season,  same issue.    Upset 5 times on the way to a 7-6 record thru 13 games.

 

And I'll add that you can be enjoying the season and you can be expecting a much better ending than finishing 5th in your conference......... but you can also be of the belief that they have failed to play up to their potential yet again........and that jeopardizes the goals of a team that's gone 0-4 on the road in the playoffs under this coaching staff. 

 

 

 

In all my life, I have never seen anyone go through efforts to point out how much the Bills suck as much as this guy.

 

It must hurt to be this kind of Bills fan.  

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

Head coach has two major jobs, be a leader and be a game coach.

 

McD gets an A for leadership, setting a high standard and holding everyone to it.  He's the real deal in that category.

 

As far as game management which includes a ton of things from time outs, reviews, adjustments, technique reminders for players, etc. McD either relies too heavily on his staff or not enough, but the 13 seconds defense was a lack of communication between staff and players that I believe cost us a Lombardi. 

 

In the MInny game, Cam Lewis is an undrafted backup FS who is good but STILL should have had multiple coaches look him in the eye before the 4th and 18 prayer and say CAM KNOCK IT DOWN, EVERYONE KNOCK IT DOWN.  Here is the 1st down marker, the ball is coming in this 10 yard patch of grass, All Dbacks look at me, knock the ball down!   If he does that, if his staff does that under his direction, we win that game and are ahead of Miami and more importantly KC right now.

 

Same with the Hail Murray, you are a coach that keeps preaching fundamentals but you need to communicate and reinforce them in critical situations or it will cost you games and possibly superbowls.

 

He was a good college player at a tiny school, and became a good DC and eventually a head coach but when he is facing Andy Reid or Belichick or even new guys like Vrable, he doesn't have a knack for critical situation control and communication.

 

I am glad he is our coach but hoping a more assertive DC comes in to replace Leslie and then Sean takes the Marv Levy role as leader and overall strategist but not game tactician.  These players are pro's but they're also jacked up 20 year olds running on adrenaline and still need game coaching.

 

 

 

 

Game management is a small - though important - part of a head coach's responsibility.  Think about all the offseason-training and in-season preparation.  The coaches have to put that together.  How much time do you spend on the field?  What drills do you run?  How much time in the filmroom?  How do you break down film with the players?  How does the HC lead and develop his coordinators?  How do the coordinators lead their position coaches?  How do you game plan for an opponent?  

 

Yeah, McD screwed up 13 seconds.  Hard to understand what went wrong there but it is notable that our ST coordinator lost his job.  Accountability.  As for Cam, did you hear his interview?   He absolutely knew he was supposed to knock it down.  He just didn't do it.  Even good coaches have players who unaccountably screw up from time to time.  I tend to believe McD is an average to above-average X-and-O game tactician.  

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Sargent Hulka said:

Really? How about 13 seconds!

Way to look at one instance over a multitude of other times that the coaches did their job well
 

I hope you have never ***** up in your life, holding others to that kind of standard

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Pretty much… sort of like how the people in the waiting room don’t get to weigh in on the surgical strategy.., you proved the point but I don’t think you see you did 

 

To reiterate...

 

3 hours ago, The Red King said:

 

By your logic, since nobody here is a quarterback, not one fan here had the right to level a single complaint against Nathan Peterman after that Chargers game.

 

You seem afraid to answer this.  I think it's because you'll prove my point.  So go ahead, answer it if you've got the guts to.  Personally, I see you ignoring it or ducking it again.

[Freddie's Dead]

14 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

Well played @Scott7975!  @SlimShady'sSpaceForce, you walked right into that one, bro'  

[Trock]

One game at a time. 

[folz]

I am 100% a McDermott supporter. We wouldn't be where we are without him (I think a lot of fans forget this). For God's sake get over the 13 seconds already. Sh&t happens. Everything about this team is due to McDermott. Without him, no Brandon Beane, no Josh Allen, no Stefon Diggs, no family/team-oriented strong culture, etc., etc., etc. He has brought more fun to us as fans than we've seen in over 20 years. The 2017 drought-breaking miracle (which will go down as an All-Time Bills great moment), the perfect game against the Pats, and even in some of the losses (the KC playoff game last year was an instant classic and will be considered one of the greatest playoff games for years to come; the Minnesota game this year is considered the game of the year thus far). Football is a rollercoaster ride, there are ups and downs. Without the downs, the ups don't feel nearly as special. Just enjoy the ride, for Pete's sake. Anyone calling for McD's job is somehow forgetting how much fun these last 5-6 years have been and who is mainly responsible for all of it.

 

Having said all of that, if there is any criticism I would have for the coaching staff it is that we haven't been nearly as good at halftime adjustments as we were last year and I think a good bit of that is on Dorsey's shoulders. I am hoping that being a first-year playcaller, he will improve in that category eventually. But that is the area of coaching where I see the biggest difference from last year and one of the biggest areas that needs improvement. Daboll seemed really good at halftime adjustments last year, but if you recall, the year before, we really struggled in the third quarter, coming out of the half. So, it seems that is something that a coach can get better at, just hope its sooner rather than later for Dorsey/the staff.

 

 

[Nelius]

It's just this board though. There's no criticism in the real world. And I think criticism is warranted, it's about as close to a Super Bowl or bust season as a lot of fans have ever known. If the Bills fall short his seat needs to get warm. However, there is a certain vocal contingent that have just about quintupled down on their McD hate and seemingly want to be right more than they want the team to be successful. Some have even vocally stated that he doesn't have it in him to take the team to the finish line, despite being in the middle of an 8-3 likely playoff bound season. Alright just fold it up then boys I guess, nothing left to see here.

 

Some of the reactions in his post game speech thread are a great example. Does McDermott engage in forced coach speak? Of course. He's even a little awkward. But the team clearly loves him and they're 8-3 right now. If your only reaction to that is hate then I really don't get it. I'd take the season off if I really felt like the guy was that much of a lost cause, I certainly wouldn't post about it 50 times after a win as if attempting to convince myself that he's no good.

[Freddie's Dead]

19 hours ago, eball said:

What the hell do people think McD should have been doing that he has not?  I still hear “well, he’s not a good gameday coach.”  Really?  He is ranked as one of the best 4th down decision makers in the league.  His time management has been stellar, saving timeouts for use at the ends of halves where the Bills have been excellent.

 

As an outspoken critic of McD, I'll cherry pick the issues that I've seen.  I'll start with the time management at the end of both halves of the DET game.  At the end of the first half, 1st & 10 at BUF 25, (1:52 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep right to I.McKenzie to DET 48 for 27 yards.  CALL TIMEOUT!!!  Instead, they ran 32 seconds off the clock before an incomplete pass to Diggs stopped the clock at 1:20.  The Bills ended up taking a timeout home, and only managed a FG before the half.  In the 2nd half, the Bills panicked by calling the last TO with 7 seconds instead of 3 or 4 so that the FG attempt would be the last play of the game.

 

Let's look at the Minnesota game.  Dorsey took an eminently winnable game and threw it away.  Here's the series from the play-by-play:

 

(4:34 - 4th) G.Joseph kicks 59 yards from MIN 35 to BUF 6. D.Johnson to BUF 28 for 22 yards (T.Jackson; T.Dye).

1st & 10 at BUF 28

(4:28 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass short left to D.Singletary to BUF 28 for no gain (D.Hunter).

2nd & 10 at BUF 28

(3:45 - 4th) (Shotgun) PENALTY on BUF-S.Diggs, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 28 - No Play.

2nd & 15 at BUF 23

(3:44 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short left to S.Diggs.

3rd & 15 at BUF 23

(3:40 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep left to S.Diggs (H.Smith).

4th & 15 at BUF 23

(3:26 - 4th) S.Martin punts 53 yards to MIN 24, Center-R.Ferguson, fair catch by J.Reagor.

   

When the above bolded plays were run, MIN had one timeout left.  You run the ball twice, and take up to 1:20 off the clock, or about 45 seconds if MIN uses their last TO.  Either scenario wins you the ballgame.

 

Let's go back to the earlier in the 4th QTR (this is a theme I'll show from games earlier in the season):  

 

1st & 10 at MIN 15

(11:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass short left to I.McKenzie to MIN 7 for 8 yards (C.Bynum).

2nd & 2 at MIN 7

(10:49 - 4th) J.Allen pass incomplete short left. Thrown into ground at line.

3rd & 2 at MIN 7

(10:45 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short middle to I.McKenzie.

4th & 2 at MIN 7

(10:27 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass short right intended for D.Knox INTERCEPTED by P.Peterson at MIN -5. P.Peterson to MIN 34 for 39 yards (J.Allen).

 

This is a pattern from previous games.  2nd and 2 at the MIN 7, and you call THREE STRAIGHT PASS PLAYS!!!!  Run the ball, keep the clock running, and don't be ATL handing the Cheats a Super Bowl by not running the ball in the 2nd half.  But we saw this pattern in previous weeks.

 

Bills v. Chefs, Week 6

 

1st & Goal at KC 10

(7:27 - 2nd) (Shotgun) D.Singletary right end to KC 3 for 7 yards (J.Williams).

2nd & 3 at KC 3

(6:45 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short middle to G.Davis (D.Harris).

3rd & 3 at KC 3

(6:41 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short right to D.Singletary (C.Jones) [J.Thornhill].

4th & 3 at KC 3

(6:37 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete short middle to I.McKenzie. BUF-S.Brown was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.

 

This is where the pattern started.  2nd and Goal at the 3 yard line.  Motor just ran for 7 to get you there.  Yet you call THREE STRAIGHT PASS PLAYS!!!! (McKittrick haterz will be jumping all over this, they just can't help themselves).  Luckily, we won the Chiefs game so this series did not cost us the game.  Dorsey did the same thing against the Pack:

 

1st & Goal at GB 7

(10:56 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Cook left guard to GB 3 for 4 yards (A.Amos).

2nd & 3 at GB 3

(10:15 - 4th) (Shotgun) B.Hart reported in as eligible. J.Allen pass incomplete short right to S.Diggs.

3rd & Goal at GB 3

(10:02 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass short right intended for G.Davis INTERCEPTED by J.Alexander at GB 3. J.Alexander to GB 5 for 2 yards (G.Davis).

 

Once again, you had a nice running play to get you to 2nd and Goal at the 3, yet you call THRE....er.....TWO STRAIGHT PASS PLAYS!!!!  The problem I have with Dorsey is that he is not learning from his mistakes, because we saw this in Detwah: 

 

Bills are down 3 points after the DET TD, but Motor is averaging 5+ yards/carry.  Motor gets 1 and 8 yards on the 1st and 4th plays of the 8-play series that ends in a punt.  Every other play is a pass.  For those of you at home, that's 6 passes to 2 runs, in a game where Motor is kicking the crap out the Lions and JA is struggling.  No need to go so pass happy when you're only down 3.

 

McD needs to rein Dorsey in.  When the running game is working, lean on it.  Give your injured QB some help, instead of saddling him up and needing him to play hero ball to pull the team's ass out the fire.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Freddie's Dead

[Big Blitz]

Kind of hard to not panic when you see how God awful the defense is when it’s 2 looming marquee free agents miss games.  Defense completely went to hot garbage when Poyer and Edmonds got hurt.  In addition to our 32 year old Safety needing surgery on his neck.  
 

And our 33 year old HOF DE that is in year 1 of a 6 year deal just tore his knee.  
 

Where will the cap room be to make upgrades next year?  Meh……we’re going to have time to debate that in February.  
 

So I can’t imagine why fans think this really is a make or break year and we might be watching what was a 3 year window that started in 2020 slam shut.  I don’t blame them and they don’t bother me.  I’m currently somewhere in between because my beef is with their failures to really help this offense and that the last 3 drafts have yielded us what exactly?   Gabe Davis, Groot, and?  No all pros.  
 

 

When 13 seconds happened the only thing I thought of in that moment was do you know how freaking hard it is to get this far and to be as healthy as we were?  

 

I’m just stunned that any fan is in a type of panic mode or blame the coaches mode.  That’s sarcasm.  
 

That said this season is far from over and the only reason it looks “bad” is these injuries are catastrophic.  We just haven’t wanted to admit it.  Any other team and we’d write them off.  But we got time to get hot and healthy.  And I’ll always believe in 17.   

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

The Bills ended up taking a timeout home, and only managed a FG before the half.  In the 2nd half, the Bills panicked by calling the last TO with 7 seconds instead of 3 or 4 so that the FG attempt would be the last play of the game.

I don’t really feel like going through everything else right now, but they didn’t panic. 
 

It was 1st and 10. They called a timeout with 7 seconds left to give them another chance at a FG if there was a botched snap or anything of that nature. Actually a smart football move that you didn’t recognize. 
 

If someone like say, Sean McVay did this, people would be licking his wee-wee. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by JGMcD2

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

I'll start with the time management at the end of both halves of the DET game.  At the end of the first half, 1st & 10 at BUF 25, (1:52 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep right to I.McKenzie to DET 48 for 27 yards.  CALL TIMEOUT!!!  Instead, they ran 32 seconds off the clock before an incomplete pass to Diggs stopped the clock at 1:20.  The Bills ended up taking a timeout home, and only managed a FG before the half.

I mean I guess I’ll add to this… time wasn’t the issue. They got down to the Detroit 20 with 20 seconds left and 2 timeouts and then went incomplete, incomplete and sack. 
 

They had plenty of time and the 2 timeouts allowed them to do whatever they wanted. Burning a timeout at 1:52 isn’t making a difference in that sequence… they didn’t run out of time lol

[GunnerBill]

For the criticism from @Freddie's Dead (above) over the end of half play calling against Detroit I think it is slightly out of date thinking. 

 

In this day in age where as long as there is 20 seconds left everyone comes out and runs plays rather than kneeling and going in for HT those end of half situations now have clear joint objectives - score and leave no time for a response. 

 

That is why you should now keep your time outs on offense at the end of half until you are under 40 seconds if at all possible. They only got a FG against Detroit and so, sure, you can second guess the decisions based on the outcome. But you have to be capable of separating strategy and outcome. It was the right plan from the Bills and they have run their end of half drives like that all season and are they have the best point differential in the ENTIRE NFL inside 2 minutes at the end of the half. That is because they understand clock management in the realities of the NFL in 2022 in those situations. 

 

In fact the team in this game who botched the final 2 minutes of the half was the Lions. After their touchdown was reversed and the clock started winding there was 2.23 to go. They did not need to run a play before the 2 minute warning. Instead they did, and even worse than that.... it was an incomplete pass that stopped the clock. They than ran for a 4 yard loss on 2nd down. 2 minute warning. They ran again for 5 yards on 3rd down. 4th and Goal at the 1. Bills Timeout. Lions score on 4th down but they have left the Bills with 1.52 and two timeouts. And they give 3 of their 7 points straight back. Appalling clock management. 

[DC Greg]

2 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

I don’t really feel like going through everything else right now, but they didn’t panic. 
 

It was 1st and 10. They called a timeout with 7 seconds left to give them another chance at a FG if there was a botched snap or anything of that nature. Actually a smart football move that you didn’t recognize. 
 

If someone like say, Sean McVay did this, people would be licking his wee-wee. 

 

I keep seeing this take on here. No it wasn't. The Bills had no timeouts left. There was no way to stop the clock if there was a botched snap. Calling the last timeout with 7 seconds left was not some brilliant 4D chess move by McD. It was a mistake, plain and simple. You don't leave time so the opponent has another chance there. I can't believe people actually think that may have been a move they made on purpose.

 

Does that mean I think McD is an awful coach? No. But he definitely made a mistake there. Just call it what it is and move on.

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, DC Greg said:

 

I keep seeing this take on here. No it wasn't. The Bills had no timeouts left. There was no way to stop the clock if there was a botched snap. Calling the last timeout with 7 seconds left was not some brilliant 4D chess move by McD. It was a mistake, plain and simple. You don't leave time so the opponent has another chance there. I can't believe people actually think that may have been a move they made on purpose.

 

Does that mean I think McD is an awful coach? No. But he definitely made a mistake there. Just call it what it is and move on.

 

I haven't seen an actual explanation of what happened. Originally it was called with :05 on the clock which is borderline - the standard is you call it with :04. Then they put two extra seconds on. Someone said that it was called immediately Josh went down on the field - so McDermott called with :05 to the sideline official but actually it had already been stopped by an on game official at the request of a player. That sounds plausible but I would be interested in knowing exactly how it played out.

[Dr. Who]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

@eball aren’t you the guy that shouted down everyone who voiced their concerns about the WRs and offensive line all offseason?(and in typical jump the gun/double down eball fashion after the first game of the season?)…. You were wrong….again. 😅
 

That being said, McDermott is still a good football coach and anyone who says otherwise is being foolish considering where he’s brought this regime, but I find it extremely hard to believe the “snatching defeat from the jaws of victory” losses are just bad luck or coincidences….. and there has been too many of those jaw dropping “how did they lose that game?” losses under McDermott…..  a lot of it is just bad situational football and that 100% starts with coaching. 
 

Hopefully that Lions win woke them up a bit and they take care of business these next threes weeks. 👍🏻

Nice avatar. If they aren't focused now, they're not going to be. I think they are, but the injury situation will be an issue regardless. I hope this regime is smart enough to make oline and wr a priority going forward. It's just incredibly foolish and short-sighted to keep putting so much burden on Josh Allen. He's getting beat up and I blame the relative lack of high end resources on offense as a major contributing factor. I suspect they plan on spending a first rounder on safety, however.

[Mr. WEO]

is this different than the "coaching won us the game" thread?

 

 

[JGMcD2]

49 minutes ago, DC Greg said:

 

I keep seeing this take on here. No it wasn't. The Bills had no timeouts left. There was no way to stop the clock if there was a botched snap. Calling the last timeout with 7 seconds left was not some brilliant 4D chess move by McD. It was a mistake, plain and simple. You don't leave time so the opponent has another chance there. I can't believe people actually think that may have been a move they made on purpose.

 

Does that mean I think McD is an awful coach? No. But he definitely made a mistake there. Just call it what it is and move on.

The holder gets up and throws an incomplete pass? Then the clock stops…  it takes less than 7 seconds. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 hours ago, The Red King said:

 

To reiterate...

 

 

You seem afraid to answer this.  I think it's because you'll prove my point.  So go ahead, answer it if you've got the guts to.  Personally, I see you ignoring it or ducking it again.

Guts to? My someone is full of themselves today.
 

When was Nate peterman 8-3?
 

Winning earns benefit of doubt. 
 

results matter.

[The Red King]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Guts to? My someone is full of themselves today.
 

When was Nate peterman 8-3?
 

Winning earns benefit of doubt. 
 

results matter.

 

Hm, ducked the question as I predicted.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

Hm, ducked the question as I predicted.

Addressed it literally head on. But carry on.  😂 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

For the criticism from @Freddie's Dead (above) over the end of half play calling against Detroit I think it is slightly out of date thinking. 

 

In this day in age where as long as there is 20 seconds left everyone comes out and runs plays rather than kneeling and going in for HT those end of half situations now have clear joint objectives - score and leave no time for a response. 

 

That is why you should now keep your time outs on offense at the end of half until you are under 40 seconds if at all possible. They only got a FG against Detroit and so, sure, you can second guess the decisions based on the outcome. But you have to be capable of separating strategy and outcome. It was the right plan from the Bills and they have run their end of half drives like that all season and are they have the best point differential in the ENTIRE NFL inside 2 minutes at the end of the half. That is because they understand clock management in the realities of the NFL in 2022 in those situations. 

 

In fact the team in this game who botched the final 2 minutes of the half was the Lions. After their touchdown was reversed and the clock started winding there was 2.23 to go. They did not need to run a play before the 2 minute warning. Instead they did, and even worse than that.... it was an incomplete pass that stopped the clock. They than ran for a 4 yard loss on 2nd down. 2 minute warning. They ran again for 5 yards on 3rd down. 4th and Goal at the 1. Bills Timeout. Lions score on 4th down but they have left the Bills with 1.52 and two timeouts. And they give 3 of their 7 points straight back. Appalling clock management. 

 

 

I disagree that 40 seconds is a universal number.    Perhaps for other pass heavy teams.   But not for a Bills offense that relies heavily on Allen in the run game.  

 

And the opponent matters here as well.   The Lions are a nickel and dime offense.   I'll take my chances with them with 20 seconds left in exchange for having the rush option still in play inside the 30 when Josh Allen has the ball.    I thought they played it smarter in the Browns game.

[The Red King]

13 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Addressed it literally head on. But carry on.  😂 

 

Hardly.  Let's look at your argument.

 

Quote

Pretty much… sort of like how the people in the waiting room don’t get to weigh in on the surgical strategy.., you proved the point but I don’t think you see you did 

 

You assert that since patients are not doctors, they have no right to weigh in on surgical strategy.  The implications are, in a similar manner, fans cannot weigh in on coaching decisions.  Am I mistaken?

 

To counter that I asked...

 

Quote

By your logic, since nobody here is a quarterback, not one fan here had the right to level a single complaint against Nathan Peterman after that Chargers game.

 

At which point your argument collapses completely.  So, you start throwing in other conditions such as win record.  You backpedaled hard from your original assertion that since patients should not weigh in on surgery, fans should not weigh in on coaching decisions.  In other words, I completely shredded your original point.

 

Check and Mate.

Edited November 27, 2022 by The Red King

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

Hardly.  Let's look at your argument.

 

 

You assert that since patients are not doctors, they have no right to weigh in on surgical strategy.  The implications are, in a similar manner, fans cannot weigh in on coaching decisions.  Am I mistaken?

 

To counter that I asked...

 

 

At which point your argument collapses completely.  So, you start throwing in other conditions such as win record.  You backpedaled hard from your original assertion that since patients should not weigh in on surgery, fans should not weigh in on coaching decisions.  In other words, I completely shredded your original point.

 

Check and Mate.

there is no check mate in checkers king me guy..  and I can see the metaphors are a little to abstract. 

 

broken down simply the point being made is when you stink sure fans are right to grumble.

 

and even when you’re winning even fans that know what they are talking about can be critical but it’s obvious having any level of understanding is not prerequisite for many posters here to criticize a highly successful high caliber coaching staff. 
 

that’s the point of my post and the thread as a whole. 
 

there you go. Clean up the check board please. 
 

 

[The Red King]

1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

there is no check mate in checkers king me guy..  and I can see the metaphors are a little to abstract. 

 

broken down simply the point being made is when you stink sure fans are right to grumble.

 

and even when you’re winning even fans that know what they are talking about can be critical but it’s obvious having any level of understanding is not prerequisite for many posters here to criticize a highly successful high caliber coaching staff. 
 

that’s the point of my post and the thread as a whole. 
 

there you go. Clean up the check board please. 
 

 

 

None of which has anything to do with what I said.  To be clear, I don't disagree with what you just posted.  The only thing directed at you was in regards to a failed correlation you attempted to make between patient/doctor and fan/coach.  A correlation I picked apart by bringing up Peterman.  Surely you can admit that much at this point.  I have not objected to, or even responded to, anything else you've posted.

 

As far as the broader topic as to whether the flak against this coaching staff is warranted, unlike the aforementioned correlation, this is completely subjective.  I have my opinions on the matter, as do you, and we're both allowed to have them.

 

I hope that clears things up.  My only issue here was strictly with that specific assertion, nothing more.