McKenzie's Place in the Offense Going Forward

[RobbRiddick]

They need to stop with the lil  dirty stuff. It's demeaning and encourages mockery of the height challenged variety.  You know, like dwarfs and Kylers 

Edited November 22, 2022 by RobbRiddick

[Joe Ferguson]

40 minutes ago, Beast said:

He’s not catching passes.

 

He’s not returning kicks.

 

What good is he? Depth?

Holding a clipboard. But he may screw that up too.

[Freddie's Dead]

10 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

McKenzie should be cut if Bills make the playoffs. If he's in the post season,  Bills will get eliminated.  He's the reason for all 3 Bills losses this year.

 

Jesus, completely forgot about the snap that McKittrick fumbled on the goal line against the Viqueens.  I get it, you hate him, but you don't need to make stuff up.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Freddie's Dead

[Warriorspikes51]

28 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson said:

McKenzie should be cut if Bills make the playoffs. If he's in the post season,  Bills will get eliminated.  He's the reason for all 3 Bills losses this year.

 

What were his mistakes in the Jets and Vikings games that lost us the game?

[KDIGGZ]

Shakir better. McKenzie good for gadget type plays. I like the motion plays with him every now and then. Maybe he gets a hand off on a sweep, maybe he's open on a swing pass. Shakir for normal downs please

[Straight Hucklebuck]

McKenzie's worst game in terms of mistakes was Kansas City. 

 

Not holding on out of the end zone, the botched Allen lateral, and the tripping over himself in the end zone and dropping a TD. 

[Scott7975]

Shakir has had 151 snaps now and has also been invisible in most of them. So invisible I was shocked to see he’s had that many snaps. 

[BuffaloBill]

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[Scott7975]

42 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

Fans seeing the result of chasing Beasley out of town now think the solution is chasing another player out of town. 

Beasley chased himself out of town and he lost it anyways. Enough of the bs. No one chased him out of town. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Shakir has had 151 snaps now and has also been invisible in most of them. So invisible I was shocked to see he’s had that many snaps. 

I noticed him some in Detroit, but I feel like he was on the outside and definitely was not a primary read. 

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I noticed him some in Detroit, but I feel like he was on the outside and definitely was not a primary read. 

Yeah not sure. He had 16 snaps I think. 25% which is up from his 22% average but I didn’t notice him at all. 

[SoCal Deek]

I think the correct question is what is the role of a Slot Receiver in Dorsey's Offense.  I'm not sure it has much to do with McKenzie. Daboll used Beasley as a guy who would go out five yards right off the snap and turn around.  I think McKenzie can at least do that!  So can Shakir.  In Dorsey's Offense, that role has been replaced by a late leaking Singletary who presents himself to the QB as a check down five yards deep over the middle.

[Warriorspikes51]

2 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Bease was let go, because he was not effective, in his last season,as a Buffalo Bill.

"Political leanings"? Just stop the nonsense, already..

you do realize he asked for his release?  Beane wanted to keep him. He wanted out of NYS 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Arkady Renko said:

Fans seeing the result of chasing Beasley out of town now think the solution is chasing another player out of town. 

Yeah, Beasley’s so good that he’s retired….  🙄 

 

we miss Beasley…no doubt.  The 2019-2020 version.  He’s not that anymore 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

you do realize he asked for his release?  Beane wanted to keep him. He wanted out of NYS 

 

We dont know that.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

So to summarize my stance on the main question at hand: 

 

The Bills need to get a rotation going with 4-players - McKenzie, Shakir, Cook, Hines. 

 

It should not be that hard to find way to dump-off, screen, bubble-screen, flare, direct snap to these players. 

 

7-regular season games left...

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I would say the Bills have 4 guys that are similar: 

 

Hines, Cook, McKenzie and Shakir (most different of the 4). 

 

But I'd start getting a real rotation going, using all 4 in motion and have them slice and dice underneath. 

 

Those guys should be in constant presnap motion, lining up all over the formation. 

 

You're going to need that against W.Gay and N.Bolton of the Chiefs.

 

 

The Bills have 7-games left. Get this started now. 

 

Position-less.  Run those linebackers and nickel backs ragged moving them around the formation, force them into zone adjustments that you can pick apart.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

20 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yeah, Beasley’s so good that he’s retired….  🙄 

 

we miss Beasley…no doubt.  The 2019-2020 version.  He’s not that anymore 

 

Beasley doesn't fix our recent red zone problems.  

 

We act like we need him on 3rd downs.  We are converting at a higher rate in 2022 vs. 2021 - 50% vs 46.4%.  

 

We are worse in the red zone at 51.3% vs 62.3%, but having beasley doesn't impact that as he had 0 RZ TDs in 2021.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Position-less.  Run those linebackers and nickel backs ragged moving them around the formation, force them into zone adjustments that you can pick apart.

Absolutely. 

 

Instead of just focusing on what McKenzie can't do in a full-time role, take control of it, and start doing what he does well, and mix in 3 other players. 

 

It just should not take an entire offensive shift, or ruin a "game flow" or "balance" to get these guys a few touches. 

 

McKenzie has been disappointing this year, but in the past he has shown the NFL level of athleticism to be an effective player on the field. Shakir has shown that he can get open against NFL corners. Cook looks like he belongs now, and Hines has long proven that. 

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Absolutely. 

 

Instead of just focusing on what McKenzie can't do in a full-time role, take control of it, and start doing what he does well, and mix in 3 other players. 

 

It just should not take an entire offensive shift, or ruin a "game flow" or "balance" to get these guys a few touches. 

 

McKenzie has been disappointing this year, but in the past he has shown the NFL level of athleticism to be an effective player on the field. Shakir has shown that he can get open against NFL corners. Cook looks like he belongs now, and Hines has long proven that. 

 

 

 

Nice thing about the gimmicky stuff too is that instead of allen in the pocket scanning the field, its read a single guy.  Hand off or pass.  Pitch or hand off.  

[ChasBB]

Too bad Gilliam couldn't sustain block just a split-second longer so McKenzie could have added (edit) another TD 2-pt conversion Sunday against the Browns.  Gilliam looked well-positioned to take that guy out, but the defender just pushed past it and made a nice tackle on McKenzie at the pylon.

Edited November 22, 2022 by ChasBB
correction

[Joe Ferguson]

1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

Jesus, completely forgot about the snap that McKittrick fumbles on the goal line against the Viqueens.  I get it, you hate him, but you don't need to make stuff up.

McKenzie led his defender out of position to get that pick from Josh. And he was too brain dead to chase down the defender and tackle him. That Allen fumble didn't have to happen if he didn't do those brain farts.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

His place in the offense is not going forward, it is going sideways. 
 

I think he’s a good WR4/5 / gadget / waterbug / jet sweep guy. 
 

Agree with those who question his football IQ. Not getting out of bounds against Miami, going out of bounds and allowing Peterson to make the game-ending INT against Minnesota, and not making a cut on the 2-PT attempt against Cleveland, just off the top of my head, all displayed a want of football awareness.

 

That said, he’s an athlete and should be able to help our offense if used in moderation and at the right times. (Is it against the rules to have him hold the ball while Allen launches him downfield?)

[SWATeam]

46 minutes ago, ChasBB said:

Too bad Gilliam couldn't sustain block just a split-second longer so McKenzie could have added another TD Sunday against the Browns.  Gilliam looked well-positioned to take that guy out, but the defender just pushed past it and made a nice tackle on McKenzie at the pylon.

That was a 2pt conversion

[ChasBB]

26 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

That was a 2pt conversion

Thanks - I've corrected my post.

[mjt328]

It's long past time for Isaiah McKenzie to take a seat, and let Khalil Shakir get some snaps.

 

To be a good starting slot receiver in 2022, a player needs to:

- Be shifty in small space, with the ability to get open with quick moves.

- Be very reliable with his hands.

- Have a instinct for getting a few extra YAC on third down.

 

Cole Beasley had all three of these traits.  Shakir has shown flashes of all three.  McKenzie has some quick burst speed, but isn't a great route-runner, struggles to make difficult catches, and tries to avoid contact.  

 

He does have some usable skills with the right offensive coordinator.  A creative play caller who can find 3-4 effective plays for a speedy gadget guy.

That OC doesn't appear to be Ken Dorsey, who is struggling with much simpler stuff.

 

[Rc2catch]

On the bench. Backup, gadget guy to fill in for injuries 

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

His place in the offense is not going forward, it is going sideways. 
 

I think he’s a good WR4/5 / gadget / waterbug / jet sweep guy. 
 

Agree with those who question his football IQ. Not getting out of bounds against Miami, going out of bounds and allowing Peterson to make the game-ending INT against Minnesota, and not making a cut on the 2-PT attempt against Cleveland, just off the top of my head, all displayed a want of football awareness.

 

That said, he’s an athlete and should be able to help our offense if used in moderation and at the right times. (Is it against the rules to have him hold the ball while Allen launches him downfield?)

 

As the season progresses, it becomes more clear which players are holding a team back.

The ones who keep making critical mistakes at crucial times.

 

In all three of the Bills losses, it can be argued that Gabe Davis cost us big with drops... and Isaiah McKenzie cost us big with mental mistakes.

 

[H2o]

I say let Shakir get his run as the starting Slot. He's looked decent when given the opportunity and we already know what we have in McKenzie at this point. We should still use McKenzie, but he's just not a starter in this league. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Why is Shakir suddenly not an option?   He made plays in Baltimore that helped us win the game and was obviously good against the Steelers 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I could see us making him inactive at Detroit

 

Yeah?  And activate who, in his stead?

 

Crowder and Kumerow are on IR.  Hodgins is on the Giants 53 man roster. 

 

The Bills like to activate 5 WR on gameday.  Last week it was Diggs, Davis, McKenzie, Shakir, and Gentry.

 

You wanna inactivate McKenzie, who you want for those 5?  Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Gentry and....Isaiah Coulter?  KeeSean Johnson? 

[Since1981]

McKenzie is just not that good. He’s had many opportunities. On/off PS, on/off ST. Bills 4 yrs?

 

time to see what other touches can do, Hines, Shakir, Cook etc.  This is a great example of giving others touches and see what happens vs. 4 yrs we know. 

[kota]

this is a recurring theme with him.  Himes could replace him and already has on special teams.  I keep seeing him in videos screwing around.  I think he needs to work more.

 

[Warriorspikes51]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yeah?  And activate who, in his stead?

 

Crowder and Kumerow are on IR.  Hodgins is on the Giants 53 man roster. 

 

The Bills like to activate 5 WR on gameday.  Last week it was Diggs, Davis, McKenzie, Shakir, and Gentry.

 

You wanna inactivate McKenzie, who you want for those 5?  Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Gentry and....Isaiah Coulter?  KeeSean Johnson? 

Hines can be "WR/HB"

[WyoAZBillfan]

10 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

As the season progresses, it becomes more clear which players are holding a team back.

The ones who keep making critical mistakes at crucial times.

 

In all three of the Bills losses, it can be argued that Gabe Davis cost us big with drops... and Isaiah McKenzie cost us big with mental mistakes.

 

One could say Johnson on D cost with lack of coverage and/or tackling. Benford the same, Hamlin got tricked a time or two. LBs lack of tackling ability, Von not sealing the sacks… Allen “dirting “ The ball where it gets picked, or right into the chest. C’mon man, team sport and several can get fingers pointed. 

[Nuncha]

4 hours ago, BuffaloTX said:

Give Shakir the ball!

[dollars 2 donuts]

4 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Probably the least instinctive football player to wear a Bills uniform since that clueless lacrosse player that us and then Belichik squeezed a couple 9 routes out of before everybody realized he had no idea where he was or what else was happening around him on the field. Chris something or other?

 

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hogan and he was better than he got credit for. 

 

 

 

Including some credit for the victory over the Vikings at home.

 

 

 

 

2014 that is...he was absolutely huge on 2nd and 20, with 27 seconds left in that game with a 29 yard grab down to the 1 that set up the Watkins TD.

 

 

 

 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Probably the least instinctive football player to wear a Bills uniform since that clueless lacrosse player that us and then Belichik squeezed a couple 9 routes out of before everybody realized he had no idea where he was or what else was happening around him on the field. Chris something or other?

 

You mean the clueless lacrosse guy who was the #2 WR on the Patriots 2016 Superbowl team, in a season where he caught 65% of the 58 passes thrown his way for 680 yds?  The one who stuck with NWE for 3 years and played in 2 more Superbowls?

 

Man, it's amazing how the Pats won anything, with a WR who had no idea where he was or what else was happening around him on their squad.  Surely, they coulda pulled someone better in off the street.

 

Simon, I Love You Man, You can have ALL my Bud Light, and that seems like kind of a bad take on Chris Hogan. 

 

I dunno about "instinctive", but typically when you got a guy who does not have multiple elite physical traits who manages to stick in the league for 9 years (Hogan) or 6 years (McKenzie), they've got something going on for them.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Beck Water

[Charles Romes]

I’m shocked that shakir is apparently not getting open. Hardly hear his name, though active every week and in the field regularly. 

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

I’m shocked that shakir is apparently not getting open. Hardly hear his name, though active every week and in the field regularly. 

 

He may be getting open and not getting targeted.  Same with Knox and McKenzie.

 

2 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

McKenzie led his defender out of position to get that pick from Josh. And he was too brain dead to chase down the defender and tackle him. That Allen fumble didn't have to happen if he didn't do those brain farts.

 

Whaaaat?

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Beck Water