Dorsey’s lack of adjustments in the second half; 12 second half points in the last 3 games

[Jerry Jabber]

Three weeks in a row, the Bills offense has sputtered badly in the second half of games. Against the Packers and Jets, the Bills scored three points in the second half of each game. Against the Vikings, the Bills scored six points in the second half. Dorsey’s lack of adjustments in the second half is becoming very concerning. 
 

Another point, I’ve seen a lot of headscratching calls over the years, but doing a QB sneak on the half yard line (by which Morse/Allen fumbled) has to be up there with amongst the dumbest calls I ever seen. I’m normally not the type to start the “fire this guy, fire that guy,” but that call was inexcusable, along with the lack of halftime adjustments. I hope Dorsey doesn’t cost more games with his play calling.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Jerry Jabber

[BobbyC81]

1 minute ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Three weeks in a row, the Bills offense has sputtered badly in the second half of games. Against the Packers and Jets, the Bills scored three points in the second half of each game. Against the Vikings, the Bills scored six points in the second half. Dorsey’s lack of adjustments in the second half is becoming very concerning. 
 

Another point, I’ve seen a lot of headscratching calls over the years, but doing a QB sneak on the half yard line (by which Morse/Allen fumbled) has to be up there with amongst the dumbest calls I ever seen. I’m normally not the type to start the “fire this guy, fire that guy,” but that call was inexcusable, along with the lack of halftime adjustments. I hope Dorsey doesn’t cost more games with his play calling.

I disagree with all the takes that it was such a bad call.  At the goal line, the safest play is the QB sneak.  Most teams use it at that field position.  If executed properly, all you have is the exchange from Center to QB, who just has to fall forward to get a yard.

 

If we had a Derrick Henry, which we don’t, you could give it to him.  With all the players crowded into that small area, taking a snap, turning and handing off to a RB is more risky.  The QB could be tripped, like happened to Cousins twice, the handoff to the RB could be messed up or a defender would have time to shoot thru and nail the RB in the end zone.  The QB sneak is the better option to gain a yard and move out from the end zone.

 

Regardless of the play call, the problem was the QB/center exchange.   It was cold and wet out there.  Who’s to say a shotgun snap wouldn’t have gone awry?

[Jerry Jabber]

24 minutes ago, BobbyC81 said:

I disagree with all the takes that it was such a bad call.  At the goal line, the safest play is the QB sneak.  Most teams use it at that field position.  If executed properly, all you have is the exchange from Center to QB, who just has to fall forward to get a yard.

 

If we had a Derrick Henry, which we don’t, you could give it to him.  With all the players crowded into that small area, taking a snap, turning and handing off to a RB is more risky.  The QB could be tripped, like happened to Cousins twice, the handoff to the RB could be messed up or a defender would have time to shoot thru and nail the RB in the end zone.  The QB sneak is the better option to gain a yard and move out from the end zone.

 

Regardless of the play call, the problem was the QB/center exchange.   It was cold and wet out there.  Who’s to say a shotgun snap wouldn’t have gone awry?

At the half yard line, you think a QB sneak is the safest play? I can see a few yards out trying the QB sneak, but at the half yard line, there is zero room for error. I would have rather seen them intentionally take a safety in that position, then what they actually called. 

[Dr.Sack]

Dorsey had shown he’s not ready to lead an NFL team given the fact he couldn’t / didn’t have a better play call for late game scenario we found ourself in. Blame McDermott all we want and he does deserve some of the blame, but the entire play concept of having Allen sneak it from the 1” line up 4 was asinine. 

[TheWeatherMan]

Dorsey is not an NFL caliber OC.  We won’t, but I wish the Bills would look to a veteran OC for next year.  

[JerseyBills]

0 tds in the 2nd half since the bye 

Very concerning trend

 

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

doing a QB sneak on the half yard line (by which Morse/Allen fumbled) has to be up there with amongst the dumbest calls I ever seen

This is not a mistake of play calling, but rather, execution.

 

You just CAN'T play like that at critical moments and expect to win.

 

We have been SLOPPY all year long.

 

That is not championship winning football.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Dorsey is not an NFL caliber OC.  We won’t, but I wish the Bills would look to a veteran OC for next year.  

I'm starting to think they should look at an entirely new coaching staff. Have any of them been worth keeping around?

[John from Riverside]

6 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

I'm starting to think they should look at an entirely new coaching staff. Have any of them been worth keeping around?

So into your feelings

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

So into your feelings

Glad you're here to police them. A relief, really 

[Big Turk]

9 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

I disagree with all the takes that it was such a bad call.  At the goal line, the safest play is the QB sneak.  Most teams use it at that field position.  If executed properly, all you have is the exchange from Center to QB, who just has to fall forward to get a yard.

 

If we had a Derrick Henry, which we don’t, you could give it to him.  With all the players crowded into that small area, taking a snap, turning and handing off to a RB is more risky.  The QB could be tripped, like happened to Cousins twice, the handoff to the RB could be messed up or a defender would have time to shoot thru and nail the RB in the end zone.  The QB sneak is the better option to gain a yard and move out from the end zone.

 

Regardless of the play call, the problem was the QB/center exchange.   It was cold and wet out there.  Who’s to say a shotgun snap wouldn’t have gone awry?

 

Except it's not. You saw what happened...in an attempt to not get a safety the center and QB exchange was not clean due to both players trying to make sure they got a little extra jump.

 

It appeared Morse tried to go from snap to block too quickly. 

 

Allen in the gun rolling out and throwing it away if he wasn't able to run for a few yards was the easy call there. It was first down, they had multiple shots to get a few yards, something he was doing well all game.

 

Or even a fake QB Sneak and then pitch out to Cook or Hines to the outside would have likely done the trick...you know...the old Mike Mulaekey special.

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Big Turk

[Buckets]

2 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Fraiser seems incapable of making adjustments. Maybe it's old age...

 

Dorsey seems incompetent at times, but he's a new OC, so dunno.

 

I've never liked McClappity on gamedays, he's a subpar coach when it comes to calling a game.

 

Will McDermott be here for the new stadium?, hmm, dunno.

I don't know about McD, but I agree with you on Fraser and Dorsey. Absolute collapse in the 2nd half and no adjustments.

[Wayne Cubed]

Besides Josh's issues and being careless with the ball, which there's no denying he is, I do find some things about the offense a bit odd.

 

Mostly it's the personnel and the usage. 4th and 2 and Duke Johnson is on the field? I don't get this babying of Cook. Or the fact that you went and got Hines yet he can't see the field. Where are these mismatches with the LBs? Even on the last play of the game, yes Singletary is wide open in the flat but if it's a passing down, why is it SIngletary over there and not Cook/Hines?

 

And I don't get why they completely abandon the run in the 2nd and in OT. The run was effective in the 1st half and I'm sure the Vikings adjusted in the 2nd half but that's on Dorsey to counter that. Is the Bills only counter to go out and throw it a ton? In OT there was plenty of time on the clock and every single play was a pass play. It's head scratching.

[NewEra]

I’m not saying Dorsey isn’t partly at fault…. But Allens interceptions and fumble are the reasons we lost these last 2 games. His 3 yard out to Mckenzie landing 5 yards short being a big reason we lost the first game.  
 

our lord and savior 17 has to be better.  His play was the reason we were the super bowl favorites.  His play is the reason that is changing.  

[BillMafia716ix]

Late in the 4th quarter, Bills have the lead with 3 minutes left, Vikings have ONE time out. What does Dorsey do? Pass, Pass, Pass, Punt. Runs absolutely no time off the clock. Just horrible play calling.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

I disagree with all the takes that it was such a bad call.  At the goal line, the safest play is the QB sneak.  Most teams use it at that field position.  If executed properly, all you have is the exchange from Center to QB, who just has to fall forward to get a yard.

 

If we had a Derrick Henry, which we don’t, you could give it to him.  With all the players crowded into that small area, taking a snap, turning and handing off to a RB is more risky.  The QB could be tripped, like happened to Cousins twice, the handoff to the RB could be messed up or a defender would have time to shoot thru and nail the RB in the end zone.  The QB sneak is the better option to gain a yard and move out from the end zone.

 

Regardless of the play call, the problem was the QB/center exchange.   It was cold and wet out there.  Who’s to say a shotgun snap wouldn’t have gone awry?

Haven’t we never been stopped on a qb sneak in Josh’s career up to that point?  

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Haven’t we never been stopped on a qb sneak in Josh’s career up to that point?  

Tennessee last year.   Similarly heartbreaking, awful loss. 

[gjv]

6 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

I disagree with all the takes that it was such a bad call.  At the goal line, the safest play is the QB sneak.  Most teams use it at that field position.  If executed properly, all you have is the exchange from Center to QB, who just has to fall forward to get a yard.

 

If we had a Derrick Henry, which we don’t, you could give it to him.  With all the players crowded into that small area, taking a snap, turning and handing off to a RB is more risky.  The QB could be tripped, like happened to Cousins twice, the handoff to the RB could be messed up or a defender would have time to shoot thru and nail the RB in the end zone.  The QB sneak is the better option to gain a yard and move out from the end zone.

 

Regardless of the play call, the problem was the QB/center exchange.   It was cold and wet out there.  Who’s to say a shotgun snap wouldn’t have gone awry?

From my perspective, I think Josh came to the line and saw that the Vikings had stacked the middle. It appeared to me Josh was going to run to the gap on his right. He was so anxious to get there that he didn't secure the snap.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Tennessee last year.   Similarly heartbreaking, awful loss. 

I don’t remember that being a designed sneak…looked like your standard qb scramble with josh calling his own number after taking the snap. I could be wrong though I don’t have the heart to watch these epic losses over again lol 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[mrags]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Except it's not. You saw what happened...in an attempt to not get a safety the center and QB exchange was not clean due to both players trying to make sure they got a little extra jump.

 

It appeared Morse tried to go from snap to block too quickly. 

 

Allen in the gun rolling out and throwing it away if he wasn't able to run for a few yards was the easy call there. It was first down, they had multiple shots to get a few yards, something he was doing well all game.

 

Or even a fake QB Sneak and then pitch out to Cook or Hines to the outside would have likely done the trick

 

This——^
 

lets not forget that we not had to burn a little bit of time. Worst case, you scramble, looking for an open WR and if it’s not there run it. If not, throw it away and take 5+ seconds off the clock. Do that 3 straight times. And even if you don’t get it, do it again a 4th time and take your time running out of the back of the end zone for a safety. Leaving them with about 25-30 seconds, 0 timeouts, and the ball at midfield at best. I’d rather die in that sword. Hope my “mvp caliber” QB can make some heroics happen, and if not, then you lay your hope on the “can’t tackle anyone” defense. 

[Nuncha]

How many plays yesterday, especially in the second half, did Josh have to just dump the ball into the ground and/or were our RB's blown up completely at the LOS?  Is our play calling that obvious?  It seemed like the Vikes could predict exactly what we were going to do at times....and way too often.

[Jerome007]

Yesterday what seemed so weird is that both the OL and DL had an amazing first half and got beat in the 2nd.

 

Benford got beat bad all day though... Could some scheming by Frazier have helped him out? IDK, just asking. As the Vikings sure targeted him.

 

Josh has thrown BAD picks of late, but yesterday Cousins did too. Of course Josh throwing these kinds of picks is THE most worrisome aspect of the last games but yesterday it was equaled by the opposing QB yet they still lost.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Jerome007

[Billz4ever]

One has to wonder what this coaching staff is doing at halftime.  Our offense goes into snooze mode or even worse, turnover mode, in second-halfs lately.

 

Few if any defensive adjustments where they realize they need to actually get pressure on the QB and start bringing heat instead of letting the opposing QB sit back there until receivers get open.

 

I saw an interesting stat this morning that I thought to myself, "no way that's accurate".  I had to go back and double check, but it absolutely is.

 

The Bills have not scored a second half touchdown since the Knox game winner at KC.

 

That floored me.  

 

That's just not going to cut it.  

[NewEra]

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

8 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Three weeks in a row, the Bills offense has sputtered badly in the second half of games. Against the Packers and Jets, the Bills scored three points in the second half of each game. Against the Vikings, the Bills scored six points in the second half. Dorsey’s lack of adjustments in the second half is becoming very concerning. 
 

Another point, I’ve seen a lot of headscratching calls over the years, but doing a QB sneak on the half yard line (by which Morse/Allen fumbled) has to be up there with amongst the dumbest calls I ever seen. I’m normally not the type to start the “fire this guy, fire that guy,” but that call was inexcusable, along with the lack of halftime adjustments. I hope Dorsey doesn’t cost more games with his play calling.

Anyone watching that game knew really bad things can happen that close to the goal line. 

 

I don't like any kind of run play there because the other team knows exactly what you're trying to do and it's just to easy to get run stuffed back into the end zone. 

 

It puts more pressure on Allen, but the Bills have had success throwing there (Chiefs, Steelers) and it would have drained more clock. Only risk is, any holding in the end zone is called a safety. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

No Hines

 

No Shakir again

 

No James Cook

 

Minimal attempt to run the ball. 

 

 

[gobills404]

7 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

At the half yard line, you think a QB sneak is the safest play? I can see a few yards out trying the QB sneak, but at the half yard line, there is zero room for error. I would have rather seen them intentionally take a safety in that position, then what they actually called. 

Even if you intentionally take a safety you still have to not fumble the snap

[Haslett_Stomp]

6 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Dorsey is not an NFL caliber OC.  We won’t, but I wish the Bills would look to a veteran OC for next year.  

 

I believe we already have two on the staff; Shula and Brady.

4 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Fraiser seems incapable of making adjustments. Maybe it's old age...

 

Dorsey seems incompetent at times, but he's a new OC, so dunno.

 

I've never liked McClappity on gamedays, he's a subpar coach when it comes to calling a game.

 

Will McDermott be here for the new stadium?, hmm, dunno.

 

I'm willing to cut Frazier some slack given the injuries on defense.  What is occurring on offense is inexcusable.

 

[Billz4ever]

3 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

No Hines

 

No Shakir again

 

No James Cook

 

Minimal attempt to run the ball. 

 

 

It's so bizarre.  I've been going through other team's box scores to see if there's a trend with any other teams looking like a completely different team the second half.

 

There is. The Vikings.  Except in the opposite order and we saw that yesterday.

 

The Bills had that stat going for awhile were they didn't allow a 3rd quarter or 2nd half TD.

 

That's obviously gone out the window and now the stat is our own team not being able to score a TD in the second half.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Billz4ever

[Beast]

Is it just halftime adjustments?

 

It seems to me Xavier Rhodes and Dean Marlowe could have helped this team yesterday.

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

Is it just halftime adjustments?

 

It seems to me Xavier Rhodes and Dean Marlowe could have helped this team yesterday.

I mean they were up 24-10 at half and then extended it to 27-10 in the 3rd, but I get what you're saying. 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Billz4ever

[ProcessYaDigg]

4 minutes ago, Beast said:

Is it just halftime adjustments?

 

It seems to me Xavier Rhodes and Dean Marlowe could have helped this team yesterday.

I was thinking the exact same thing.  I was wondering if they were ever going to see the field, because we could've used them. 

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Three weeks in a row, the Bills offense has sputtered badly in the second half of games. Against the Packers and Jets, the Bills scored three points in the second half of each game. Against the Vikings, the Bills scored six points in the second half. Dorsey’s lack of adjustments in the second half is becoming very concerning. 
 

Another point, I’ve seen a lot of headscratching calls over the years, but doing a QB sneak on the half yard line (by which Morse/Allen fumbled) has to be up there with amongst the dumbest calls I ever seen. I’m normally not the type to start the “fire this guy, fire that guy,” but that call was inexcusable, along with the lack of halftime adjustments. I hope Dorsey doesn’t cost more games with his play calling.

I’ve been saying the same thing.  Everyone wants to blame McD or certain players.  But I’ve watched Dorsey more than once completely abandon the run game despite it being effective in the first half once the second half starts.  I’ve seen defenses adjust at halftime and Dorsey not.  I’ve seen terrible play calling plague the second half.  
 

it makes no sense.  First 7 games of the season we dominated the 3rd quarter, best in the NFL in point differential.  Suddenly now it’s like last year again where we can’t get anything going in the 3rd quarter.  
 

Im not down on Dorsey, but I will say I’m disappointed in 4 areas right now:

 

1.  Lack of adjustments in the 2nd half as we already discussed.  
 

2. Consistently starting with Devin running well early in games and then completely abandons him, including giving other guys rush attempts or not running at all.  I really thought he was going to more consistently involve the run game after how much our offense improved last year from the second half of the Bucs game to the end of playoffs once we got the run game consistently involved.  
 

3.  Lack of TE involvement in the pass game.  We went from maybe seeing a lot of 2 TE sets to only sporadically using Knox in the passing game.  With Dorsey’s history of playing with great TEs, I really expected him to use the position more as a weapon.  Knox has been doing great when given chances and as a blocker, but without a threat from the slot right now, we need to involve Knox more in the pass game.  
 

4.  Lack of designed runs for Allen in specific situations.  Daboll used WAY too many, Dorsey uses too few.  There have been a number of times where a designed Allen run would have been a much better call than the play he chose.  I don’t want to see Allen being used as a FB like Daboll did at times, but the vast majority of Allens rush yards this year are from him improvising.  Which is a great thing, and how it really should be as that’s when he’s most dangerous.  But at the same time, it’s like Dorsey forgets about how effective Allen can be a key situations with his legs and has taken that element out of the playbook.  It’s like we over corrected in that department.  

[BillsFanSD]

8 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

At the half yard line, you think a QB sneak is the safest play? I can see a few yards out trying the QB sneak, but at the half yard line, there is zero room for error. I would have rather seen them intentionally take a safety in that position, then what they actually called. 

This post seems exactly wrong.  The QB sneak with Allen was probably the safest play at their disposal, and an intentional safety would have been the most hazardous.

[Best Williams Available]

This team chokes in key moments habitually due to a lack of situational awareness. You see it through the years and throughout games. Scrambling to get a play called or setup in key moments on both sides of the ball, they always screw up (3rd and long on D or 3rd and short on O). This is due to the coaches being planners and incapable of being spontaneous. It’s why in-game adjustments are difficult to make. It’s not in the coaches DNA to be situational or anticipatory.
 

I think this explains the mid-season lulls. Start out hot cause of good planning, other teams adjust and game plan against that and our staff then has to re-adjust and re-plan accordingly, which takes a couple games to do. This is the DNA of the staff. I’m not saying it’s good or bad.

 

I’ll add I think it’s also why there’s a huge lag in getting new guys added to the roster involved quicker. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Best Williams Available

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Haven’t we never been stopped on a qb sneak in Josh’s career up to that point?  

 

No...Titans game last year when he slipped on 4th and goal from the TEN 4 down by 3.

14 minutes ago, Best Williams Available said:

This team chokes in key moments habitually due to a lack of situational awareness. You see it through the years and throughout games. Scrambling to get a play called or setup in key moments on both sides of the ball, they always screw up (3rd and long on D or 3rd and short on O). This is due to the coaches being planners and incapable of being spontaneous. It’s why in-game adjustments are difficult to make. It’s not in the coaches DNA to be situational or anticipatory.
 

I think this explains the mid-season lulls. Start out hot cause of good planning, other teams adjust and game plan against that and our staff then has to re-adjust and re-plan accordingly, which takes a couple games to do. This is the DNA of the staff. I’m not saying it’s good or bad.

 

I’ll add I think it’s also why there’s a huge lag in getting new guys added to the roster involved quicker. 

 

What makes it even more amazing is the Bills spend a LOT of time on situations in practice...to a man the players talk about how those situations are drilled into their head. Why is it not translating to the games?

[Best Williams Available]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

No...Titans game last year when he slipped on 4th and goal from the TEN 4 down by 3.

 

What makes it even more amazing is the Bills spend a LOT of time on situations in practice...to a man the players talk about how those situations are drilled into their head. Why is it not translating to the games?

Maybe the situations they practice are not the ones that actually occur in games? If the coaches suck at anticipating then maybe so?

 

Remember all the blow out losses early in McDs tenure? They were due to terrible preparation AND lack of talented players. Now he has players but still lacks proper prep, the losses now are just huge head scratchers and 3 points versus 28.

[Utah John]

So there are two main points from the OP.  Was the QB sneak the right call?  Yes I think it was.  It's the safest play there is, and I don't ever remember a fumble happening on the center-QB exchange.  The only other option was an intentional safety, but that would have given the Vikings a 2 point deficit and the ball and an opportunity for another Jefferson catch to get into FG range.  So no.

 

The other was about Dorsey not keeping the offense working well in the second half, and I think that criticism is spot on.  Also, all these red zone interceptions seem to be coming from defenders lurking and waiting to undercut our receiver routes.  Wake up, Ken and Josh.  The league knows what you like to do.  

[Big Turk]

10 minutes ago, Best Williams Available said:

Maybe the situations they practice are not the ones that actually occur in games? If the coaches suck at anticipating then maybe so?

 

Remember all the blow out losses early in McDs tenure? They were due to terrible preparation AND lack of talented players. Now he has players but still lacks proper prep, the losses now are just huge head scratchers and 3 points versus 28.

 

But...on the bright side. How good does a team have to be to have their entire starting secondary out, a starting LB out, make numerous mind numbing mistakes, turn the ball over at an NFL high rate and STILL require miraculous things for good teams with a combined record of 23-7 to win on the final possession of the game by 3 points or less?

 

Most teams get blown out if even one of those things happen against them.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Big Turk

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

But...on the bright side. How good does a team have to be to have their entire starting secondary out, a starting LB out, make numerous mind numbing mistakes, turn the ball over at an NFL high rate and STILL require miraculous things for good teams with a combined record of 23-7 to win on the final possession of the game by 3 points or less?

 

Most teams get blown out if even one of those things happen against them.

I think this could end up being a glass half full situation but the last few weeks have certainly been painful because your big money qb is getting payed to get you those types of wins. 
 

not at all surprised by the frustration but I still think we will be dangerous come playoff time at home and on the road.  If we end up being the 6 seed I think the 3 seed may secretly hope they are the 4 seed lol 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan