The defense sucked....again

[Billsfan1972]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They didn't play great vs the Jets but then they still held them to 20. On the road. You do that you have to win the game. 

Jets scored 3 today however vs. the Bills walked up and down the field.  Yes 20 points but TOP they manhandled the Bills.  No way Wilson should have done that vs. them.  

Edited November 20, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Maine-iac]

26 points in the 4th quarter the last two games.  Both games we had big leads.  I'm not a fan of prevent even when played well.  By played well I mean keep everything in front of you and give up small gains to keep the clock running.  We play a prevent where we let them drive the field on 3 or 4 plays and give up 15 and 20 yard gains.  I get that we have injuries but this is still the NFL and even back ups should be able to play a well coached prevent.  I'm actually more worried it's the coaching than the injuries.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Maine-iac

[BillsFanSD]

I get the complaints about the 4th quarter, but the defense took Chubb away and forced Brisset to beat us.  That's a very good strategy, and they succeeded.  Lots of folks were expecting us to get gashed on the ground today.

 

Not going to get too upset over some sloppiness in garbage time.

[DrBob806]

54 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

"Turning point game"?  The D was crappy once again.  

 

I'm not sure why isn't taboo for the CBs to actually looks back for the ball.

The D wasn't bad against the run, but the Browns were without two starters on their line. 

[AlfaBill]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Today? Milano and Poyer played. 

 

We are down 3 of our 4 starting DBs (I get it you could argue about CB2 but to me it is pretty clear who that should be), our MLB and a starting defensive end. 

 

Totally disagree.

Feel free to disagree but you’re still wrong. What was the excuse last year? And st times this year? The offense has covered up the defensive woes by blowing teams out. 

[TFBillsfan]

Agree D has some consistent issues. Front four isn’t getting it done consistently and the D continues to give up big plays in the 4th qtr. Fortunately the Browns couldn’t recover a gifted onside kick or we very possibly would have blown another big lead. It’s ridiculous how this team doesn’t understand basic football at times.

 

Almost every QB we’ve played this year have had solid games. That has to change.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Jets scored 3 today however vs. the Bills walked up and down the field.  Yes 20 points but TOP they manhandled the Bills.  No way Wilson should have done that vs. them.  

 

It wasn't the defense's best game. But it was far from a disaster. The problem was the offense ***** the bed.

[billsbackto81]

9 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Jets scored 3 today however vs. the Bills walked up and down the field.  Yes 20 points but TOP they manhandled the Bills.  No way Wilson should have done that vs. them.  

Wilson had 77 yards passing and more punts than completions.

 

How the hell did we lose to this 💩 show?

[Process]

4 minutes ago, AlfaBill said:

Feel free to disagree but you’re still wrong. What was the excuse last year? And st times this year? The offense has covered up the defensive woes by blowing teams out. 

In our blowouts this year we gave up 3, 7 and 10 points. What are you talking about?

 

The defense will be fine, as long as they get healthy. 

 

Missing 3 players in the secondary. Starting MLB. Starting DE. 

 

They are giving up points to KC in the playoffs. It's happening regardless. 

 

We can win with the defense as is, IF HEALTHY.   

 

We can't win with our offense playing the way they have. Specifically Allen and our WRs. They are a bigger concern right now.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Process

[GoBills808]

Defense is very banged up rn

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, AlfaBill said:

Feel free to disagree but you’re still wrong. What was the excuse last year? And st times this year? The offense has covered up the defensive woes by blowing teams out. 

 

I am not. You are. The defense isn't perfect but it is comfortably a top 10 defense, again. It has been 4 of the 6 years of this regime. I don't know what people expect? The 2000 Ravens are not walking through the door. The Bills have been injury ravaged on D and are giving up fewer than 20 PPG on average. They have given up more than 23 once (last week). 

[zow2]

The defense helped themselves huge today by blocking a short FG, Stuffing a 4th and short and recovering a Brissett fumble at midfield when they were mounting another 1st half drive.  So that’s the good.  

 

The bad is that it’s 3 weeks now when every time the opposing QB throws a pass you expect a wide open receiver on the other end, or a dude making a nice contested catch. or a DPI because our DBs are very “handsy”.  

 

At the moment this is nowhere close to a Super Bowl caliber D… but luckily there’s time to get healthy and improve.

[Einstein]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They didn't play great vs the Jets but then they still held them to 20. On the road. You do that you have to win the game. 

 

For me, it’s less about how many total points they give up, and more about if they can come through in the clutch.

 

Against the Jets, they only gave up 20 points. But they also allowed a back breaking 14 play drive that went from the 4 yard line, all the way to the opposite 2 yard line. It was a 94 yard, 14 play drive when we needed them most. 

 

Against the Vikings, they gave up an 81 yard TD drive, 66 yard TD drive and 15 play scoring drive in OT - all in the clutch moments where we needed a stop most (4th quarter and OT). 

 

As I type this, the Vikings and Cowboys are about to go into halftime. The Cowboys have allowed the Vikings 3 points and Jefferson has 18 total yards.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, zow2 said:

The defense helped themselves huge today by blocking a short FG, Stuffing a 4th and short and recovering a Brissett fumble at midfield when they were mounting another 1st half drive.  So that’s the good.  

 

The bad is that it’s 3 weeks now when every time the opposing QB throws a pass you expect a wide open receiver on the other end, or a dude making a nice contested catch. or a DPI because our DBs are very “handsy”.  

 

At the moment this is nowhere close to a Super Bowl caliber D… but luckily there’s time to get healthy and improve.

 

They can't win the Superbowl with the DBs they are putting on the field right now. That is for certain. We know Micah isn't walking through the door, but we do have two first round talents to come back at corner. That is the hope.

[AlfaBill]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not. You are. The defense isn't perfect but it is comfortably a top 10 defense, again. It has been 4 of the 6 years of this regime. I don't know what people expect? The 2000 Ravens are not walking through the door. The Bills have been injury ravaged on D and are giving up fewer than 20 PPG on average. They have given up more than 23 once (last week). 

Question for you. Super bowl. 4th quarter. Bills have 3 point lead with 2 mins and the opponent has the ball. How good you feel the bills d holds?

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

For me, it’s less about how many total points they give up, and more about if they can come through in the clutch.

 

Against the Jets, they only gave up 20 points. But they also allowed a back breaking 14 play drive that went from the 4 yard line, all the way to the opposite 2 yard line. It was a 94 yard, 14 play drive when we needed them most. 

 

Against the Vikings, they gave up an 81 yard TD drive, 66 yard TD drive and 15 play scoring drive in OT - all in the clutch moments where we needed a stop most (4th quarter and OT). 

 

As I type this, the Vikings and Cowboys are about to go into halftime. The Cowboys have allowed the Vikings 3 points and Jefferson has 18 total yards.

 

The DBs have been torched. Nobody is denying that. Show me a team missing 3 of their 4 starting DBs that isn't. 

 

What about the clutch interception in KC? They are just hurt. Missing too many guys.

[HoofHearted]

34 minutes ago, kkim0904 said:

DBs giving too many big plays.

Played a ton of 3 today to get an extra body down in the box. Corners were on an island the majority of the game. Frazier sold out to stop the run.

 

Unrelated - if we aren’t going to be able to afford to keep Edmunds I hope we have a good replacement plan. Dodson is too un-athletic to hold up there with what we ask out of the position.

Edited November 20, 2022 by HoofHearted

[Einstein]

Just now, HoofHearted said:

Unrelated - if we aren’t going to be able to afford to keep Edmunds I hope we have a good replacement plan. Dodson is too un-athletic to hold up there with what we ask out of the position.

 

Dodson is not it.

[newcam2012]

19 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I get the complaints about the 4th quarter, but the defense took Chubb away and forced Brisset to beat us.  That's a very good strategy, and they succeeded.  Lots of folks were expecting us to get gashed on the ground today.

 

Not going to get too upset over some sloppiness in garbage time.

They played not to let Chubb beat them. I have to give the much maligned Fraizer credit. 

 

The bigger picture is another story. The defense with all of its injuries are average. It looks like it's going to be difficult to make a deep playoff run. 

[HoofHearted]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Dodson is not it.

Yeah… he’s an old school Mike. He can hold up in the run game but just looks awful in space.

[Bermuda Triangle]

At the half this week, the Vikings have 3 points, and Jefferson has 3 catches.

[wppete]

Defense is brutal. 

[Process]

1 minute ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

At the half this week, the Vikings have 3 points, and Jefferson has 3 catches.

Is Dallas missing 4 players in the secondary, a starting MLB and starting DE?

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, AlfaBill said:

Question for you. Super bowl. 4th quarter. Bills have 3 point lead with 2 mins and the opponent has the ball. How good you feel the bills d holds?

 

Better than I feel if we are down 3 and the O has the ball. In our 3-9 in one score games over the last two seasons (including playoffs) the O has had the ball at the end with a chance to win 8 of them. Of those 8 we have won 1. The defense has been on the field to protect a win twice (both at KC) and is 1-1. The other two (Steelers opening day 2021 and today) one team or other scored in garbage time to make it a one score game and it came down to fielding an onside kick. 

 

I know people don't want to hear it but if this team has a "clutch" problem it ain't on defense.

Edited November 20, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Bermuda Triangle]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Better than I feel if we are down 3 and the O has the ball. In our 3-9 in one score games over the last two seasons (including playoffs) the D has had the ball at the end with a chance to win 8 of them. Of those 8 we have won 1. The defense has been on the field two protect a win twice (both at KC) and is 1-1. The other two (Steelers opening day 2021 and today) one team or other scored in garbage time to make it a one score game and it came down to fielding an onside kick. 

 

I know people don't want to hear it but if this team has a "clutch" problem it ain't on defense.

The D certainly wasn't clutch these past 3 weeks, or on 3rd and 22 against Miami earlier in the year.

 

Hail Murray, :13....

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Bermuda Triangle said:

The D certainly wasn't clutch these past 3 weeks, or on 3rd and 22 against Miami earlier in the year.

 

Hail Murray, :13....

 

Hail Murray and 13 seconds are two clutch failures on the D. No doubt. Otherwise they are a team who give up some plays LIKE EVERY DEFENSE. They actually won the game on the 1 yard line last week. Absolutely clutch. All the offense had to do was snap a ball properly.... 

[NewEra]

Nick Chubb- 14 rushes 19 yards.  The defense is brutal….minus Rousseau and Edmunds (and to a lesser extent White).  

 

Our corners need to have better awareness playing the ball.  It was a rough 1st half for the d and we got bailed out Brissetts fumble, but Frazier had a very good second half after getting beatdown in the first half.  
 

the offense is what we need to worry about as of now.  Specifically, our slot usage.  Shakir……where are you?  Try cook in the slot.  Get the kid the ball.  He’s starting to look like a nice weapon 

[HappyDays]

I'm really concerned about Tre White. The defense cannot be championship caliber until we have him back. Clearly there is some kind of mental thing going on with him and the longer it goes on the more concerned I become that he will not be back on the field this year. December 1 against the Pats is the deadline I'm looking at. If he's still not back by then I think we have a big problem on our hands.

[Trock]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I'm really concerned about Tre White. The defense cannot be championship caliber until we have him back. Clearly there is some kind of mental thing going on with him and the longer it goes on the more concerned I become that he will not be back on the field this year. December 1 against the Pats is the deadline I'm looking at. If he's still not back by then I think we have a big problem on our hands.

What would his trade value be? 

[Bermuda Triangle]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Hail Murray and 13 seconds are two clutch failures on the D. No doubt. Otherwise they are a team who give up some plays LIKE EVERY DEFENSE. They actually won the game on the 1 yard line last week. Absolutely clutch. All the offense had to do was snap a ball properly.... 

13 seconds was essentially 3 choke jobs by the defense - one on the Hill TD, the end of regulation debacle and then the surrender in OT.

 

Last week, up 27-10 at the end of the 3rd quarter - that shouldn't have even been a close game in the 4th.  

 

Game tied against the Jets, with a bad QB backed up on the 4-yard line, and the D essentially vomits on itself.

 

Tennessee last season - couldn't get a stop in the 2nd half - at all.  Tenn gets the ball down 4 with 8:00 left and crams it down our throat.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Trock said:

What would his trade value be? 

 

If he doesn't want to play? Zero.

Just now, Bermuda Triangle said:

13 seconds was essentially 3 choke jobs by the defense - one on the Hill TD, the end of regulation debacle and then the surrender in OT.

 

Last week, up 27-10 at the end of the 3rd quarter - that shouldn't have even been a close game in the 4th.  

 

Game tied against the Jets, with a bad QB backed up on the 4-yard line, and the D essentially vomits on itself.

 

Tennessee last season - couldn't get a stop in the 2nd half - at all.  Tenn gets the ball down 4 with 8:00 left and crams it down our throat.

 

Yea. Defenses give up plays. It is the NFL. The Offense has blown way more games.

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Better than I feel if we are down 3 and the O has the ball. In our 3-9 in one score games over the last two seasons (including playoffs) the O has had the ball at the end with a chance to win 8 of them. Of those 8 we have won 1. The defense has been on the field to protect a win twice (both at KC) and is 1-1. The other two (Steelers opening day 2021 and today) one team or other scored in garbage time to make it a one score game and it came down to fielding an onside kick. 

 

I know people don't want to hear it but if this team has a "clutch" problem it ain't on defense.

Neither the offense nor the defense seems to perform particularly well at end of game high pressure situations, but I would easily go w offense because they always have the best player on the field in Allen.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Better than I feel if we are down 3 and the O has the ball. In our 3-9 in one score games over the last two seasons (including playoffs) the D has had the ball at the end with a chance to win 8 of them. Of those 8 we have won 1. The defense has been on the field two protect a win twice (both at KC) and is 1-1. The other two (Steelers opening day 2021 and today) one team or other scored in garbage time to make it a one score game and it came down to fielding an onside kick. 

 

I know people don't want to hear it but if this team has a "clutch" problem it ain't on defense.

 

 

I actually loved the way they used their timeouts on the final drive of the first half to prevent a "rushed" situation because the Bills offense OFTEN struggles with composure when rushed.    There have been a lot more mistaken-laden finishes in close games than not.   It's one of the reasons I am so "pro" aggressiveness with this offense during the entire game.    They can win some close games.......they did it in KC and Baltimore this season.......but being big in the clutch is not a strength of this offense.

[Bermuda Triangle]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If he doesn't want to play? Zero.

 

Yea. Defenses give up plays. It is the NFL. The Offense has blown way more games.

Bit of an oversimplification.  If you think the end of regulation and OT vs KC, the Jets game (especially the last drive) and the 2nd half of the Tenn game is simply a case of the defense "giving up plays", I think this discussion is pointless, with all due respect.

[PauleeeWalnuts]

We need to report Tre missing 

[SirAndrew]

NFL defenses give up points and big plays galore. I think there’s an unreasonable expectation on defensive production. This league is geared towards offense, and you hope your defense simply does enough to win. That’s what they did today. My only concern remains the conservative Frazier play calling when we have a lead. That’s where our defense could be the difference between a title or disappointment. 

[BBills_88]

If our DB's would learn how to turn their heads, just maybe they can deflect or intercept some balls.

[GoBills808]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If he doesn't want to play? Zero.

 

Yea. Defenses give up plays. It is the NFL. The Offense has blown way more games.

I mean...you understand it's much more difficult statistically for the offense to score when down late in games than it is for the defense to hold a late lead? There's a reason teams down late in games have such low win%

[Einstein]

Watching Dallas embarrass Minnesota on defense is amazing to watch.

 

We made it seem like an impossible feat.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

I've said this before, there is no way to make up for these types of losses, yes it's next man up but the next man up is not going to be anywhere near as good as Edmunds, Hyde, White, Groot, Elam and now Epenesa. My biggest problem with this defense is adjustments, they absolutely refuse to stray from the game plan and it's killing us. Jefferson had a career game against us and instead of learning from our mistakes and double teaming WR Amari Cooper, he once again destroyed us. Why wouldn't we have Poyer and Cook on him all game and stack the LOS against the run? It made zero sense.