frostbitmic Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Just give it to him has always worked. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: This has always been one of my pet peeves. They bring the chains out and measure within one chain link of the chain as to whether a 1st down or not. But when they first set the down markers to start with, who's to say they were exactly lined up within one chain link. Likely in many cases they may be going 9.4 yards for a 1st down, another time it's 10.3 yards! But as others have stated, I doubt you'd get a GPS system accurate within one inch. Better thing may be some type of laser system on both sides of the field and a target of some sorts on the surface of the ball. Yeah they’re not off by 3 feet lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 37 minutes ago, Gene1973 said: It couldn't be GPS, it'd have to be some type of system under the field at every stadium. $$$ Agreed. I work with Bluetooth, RFID and HID systems. Everyone thinks they should be able to pinpoint down to the foot where tracking devices should be, but they won't without massive infrastructure. And even then, I wouldn't guarantee it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: This has always been one of my pet peeves. They bring the chains out and measure within one chain link of the chain as to whether a 1st down or not. But when they first set the down markers to start with, who's to say they were exactly lined up within one chain link. Likely in many cases they may be going 9.4 yards for a 1st down, another time it's 10.3 yards! I spent some time on the local Arena League team chain gang years ago. The ref on the sideline would tell us on first down to line up the pole with the back of one of his feet. So, while it may not be 100% accurate, it could be within just an inch or two. Next game you watch, on first downs, try to see if they have a sideline shot. You should see the sideline ref with one foot behind the other. You can kind of see it in this picture. Edited October 13, 2022 by Just Jack 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PonyBoy Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, frostbitmic said: Just give it to him has always worked. That one probably pisses me off more than any other call in history. The gall of that! On a hot mike too. 🤬 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 hours ago, BillsFanMike said: NFL needs that human error. You know because Vegas.🤑 Also so they can send out "we reviewed the play from 2 weeks ago and we were wrong, sorry" letters to teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goin Breakdown Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Im all for the game of football looking like the game of football. Keep all the tech out of it please. I like the human element. I know it sucks when calls don't go our way but that's part of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galept Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said: Im all for the game of football looking like the game of football. Keep all the tech out of it please. I like the human element. I know it sucks when calls don't go our way but that's part of the game. Just seeing where things are trending I would not be surprised if they start to try and improve accuracy somehow. Maybe it will suck, but there's zero chance things stay as they are long-term. In fact I expect this game to look very different in 10-15 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goin Breakdown Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 minute ago, galept said: Just seeing where things are trending I would not be surprised if they start to try and improve accuracy somehow. Maybe it will suck, but there's zero chance things stay as they are long-term. In fact I expect this game to look very different in 10-15 years. I hear ya man. I just wonder how many of us will actually still like this game we love. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Surprised no one has mentioned the USFL yet. They did this with positive results, if I remember correctly. However, kickers didn't like the added/uneven weight of the chips in the balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 where have I read this before.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaggersEOD Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 4 hours ago, WotAGuy said: Just paint the ball bright orange. Problem solved. It’s funny but Low-Tech solutions tend to work better than complicated and often malfunctioning Hi -Tech. I bet this would actually work pretty well 3 hours ago, Captain Caveman said: At that point I may switch allegiance to the Giants I hear he doesn’t even exercise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 2 hours ago, LeGOATski said: Surprised no one has mentioned the USFL yet. They did this with positive results, if I remember correctly. However, kickers didn't like the added/uneven weight of the chips in the balls. The USFL used it, but it was not better and really added nothing of benefit that I ever saw. In the end - the consensus seemed to be that the NFL was more accurate than the chip in the USFL. The complaint from the kickers should also be noted. Current NFL balls are all chipped, but have little impact because of where the chip is placed. It is used exclusively for next gen stats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: where have I read this before.....? I remember there was a thread during the off-season with the same pro/con arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: It will come in time. As will unitards instead of two piece uni's. It's gonna' be gross. In the meantime try to look at it like you ONLY have to get 10 yards..........so if you are ruled a half a yard short you should have gotten between 1 and 89 more yards so you weren't leaving it to a bunch of part time officials. Same the other way around........you had 10 yards to stop them if you couldn't clearly do the minimum then you are leaving the result to fortune to some extent. Same with plays on the boundary.........if you live on the margins when the field is 360' x 160' then you expose yourself to greater chance of human error/subjectivity. The NFL (and any professional sport) is a game of inches. So there is merit in having the technology to identify these things. However, keeping it human also is what makes the emotions in the game. I don't want robots in the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ga boy Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Do we get the female robot voice: In 23 yards you will reach you destination. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 44 minutes ago, ganesh said: The NFL (and any professional sport) is a game of inches. So there is merit in having the technology to identify these things. However, keeping it human also is what makes the emotions in the game. I don't want robots in the game. Yep. A lot of people think they want that precision technology..........but the NFL knows the value of that human element. NOTHING bonds fans to their team like the perception of unfair officiating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 10 hours ago, The Red King said: Was a rogue thought I had, given today's tech. Why not add a chip to the inside of both tips of the football? Using GPS positioning, you would know exactly where the ball is. Challenging a bad spot? Correct spot identified immediately. Did the ball cross the plain, but you can't see it well enough to know? You rule it a TD, and the automatic review will know immediately if any molocule of that ball broke the plain for even a split-second, and again would be known instantly. Was the ball past the LOS when it was thrown? Did the onside kick go ten yards? Would make the game far more accurate, and vastly speed up a number of challenges. The USFL did this and got rid of the chain gang. They know instantly if it's a first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Would they have to use a chip-less ball for kicking to avoid damaging it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 8 hours ago, Billy Claude said: In Gaelic football it is only used to decide if a point is scored, that is if a ball crosses above the crossbar and between the goalposts. It would be similar to deciding whether a field goal is good or not. How about this for field goals? ... 😀 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 1 minute ago, ChasBB said: How about this for field goals? ... 😀 ... I've been thinking about that, doing variable point FGs, but based on distance, not hitting a certain part of the goal posts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 9 minutes ago, ChasBB said: How about this for field goals? ... 😀 ... Ladder golf? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Claude Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 5 hours ago, ChasBB said: How about this for field goals? ... 😀 ... In Gaelic football, it actually works the other way, 3 points below the crossbar (a goal) and 1 point (a point) above the crossbar. The goal posts are taken to extend upwards forever. They only use cameras to decide on whether a point is scored -- not goals. Actually FGs would be more exciting if the NFL gave more points for lower field goals. That would increase the probability of a FG being blocked and require much more precision and touch from the kicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 10 hours ago, Just Jack said: I remember there was a thread during the off-season with the same pro/con arguments. lol it's in every thread after the Bills lose a challenge at the goal line or of a spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Just now, Mr. WEO said: lol it's in every thread after the Bills lose a challenge at the goal line or of a spot. Why not just put a chip in the baseball and do balls and strikes too? Probably because it doesn't work, not to mention - things don't need to be right all the time. You play baseball for your entire life with human umps, but now you get to the show and theres some computer determining balls and strikes... just doesn't seem right to me. Same goes here, until college they didn't even do reviews for your entire football life. It's part of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: Why not just put a chip in the baseball and do balls and strikes too? Probably because it doesn't work, not to mention - things don't need to be right all the time. You play baseball for your entire life with human umps, but now you get to the show and theres some computer determining balls and strikes... just doesn't seem right to me. Same goes here, until college they didn't even do reviews for your entire football life. It's part of the game. balls and strikes wouldn't need a chip and would be the easiest thing in sports to automate. They should do it because each ump shouldn't be allowed to reinterpret what is the strike zone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChasBB Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 3 hours ago, Billy Claude said: In Gaelic football, it actually works the other way, 3 points below the crossbar (a goal) and 1 point (a point) above the crossbar. The goal posts are taken to extend upwards forever. They only use cameras to decide on whether a point is scored -- not goals. Actually FGs would be more exciting if the NFL gave more points for lower field goals. That would increase the probability of a FG being blocked and require much more precision and touch from the kicker. Good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: balls and strikes wouldn't need a chip and would be the easiest thing in sports to automate. They should do it because each ump shouldn't be allowed to reinterpret what is the strike zone. I hate using replay in most sports. I like how NFL streamlined some things on obvious challenge plays to speed up play. But the things people want to most challenge are BS penalty calls. Baseball is probably the worst though. Seems like you can challenge everything but balls and strikes, and its obnoxious. Players scout umps, they know what their zone is before a game. To me its such a non-issue. Hockey Offside challenge is terrible, one of the worst replay rules. VAR is terrible in soccer. There are line judges whos sole purpose is to call Offside, just let them do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArdmoreRyno Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) Jumping in, skipping the 4 pages.... I know my alma mater (Oklahoma State) uses a technology that has chips inside basketballs to monitor the number of shots a player takes, where on the floor and if he/she misses or hits a shot. You'd think they have this tech for football as well. https://www.ocolly.com/sports/trackers-in-the-toolbox-how-osu-basketball-uses-technology-to-gain-an-edge/article_eca722aa-4ec7-11eb-8bed-d7c1a36171c2.html 1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: Why not just put a chip in the baseball and do balls and strikes too? Probably because it doesn't work, not to mention - things don't need to be right all the time. You play baseball for your entire life with human umps, but now you get to the show and theres some computer determining balls and strikes... just doesn't seem right to me. Same goes here, until college they didn't even do reviews for your entire football life. It's part of the game. Imagine how expensive that would get. 300,000 baseballs are used in a MLB season. Then think about all the fans that would have access to those chips with foul balls and HR's... and I could see someone hacking the MLB network to screw up a game. Edited October 14, 2022 by ArdmoreRyno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 46 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: I hate using replay in most sports. I like how NFL streamlined some things on obvious challenge plays to speed up play. But the things people want to most challenge are BS penalty calls. Baseball is probably the worst though. Seems like you can challenge everything but balls and strikes, and its obnoxious. Players scout umps, they know what their zone is before a game. To me its such a non-issue. Hockey Offside challenge is terrible, one of the worst replay rules. VAR is terrible in soccer. There are line judges whos sole purpose is to call Offside, just let them do it. They should allow off sides in the NHL. Might make the regular season games worth watching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Obviously, as has been stated, GPS wouldn't work, as it isn't accurate enough. But, the technology is clearly there. The motion capture technology that we use in the motion picture industry is accurate to within a millimeter on stages as large as a football field. Also, the AI technology is certainly there to replace much of the officiating, and implanting a chip in John Hussey's brain would clear up a lot of bad calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 45 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said: Jumping in, skipping the 4 pages.... I know my alma mater (Oklahoma State) uses a technology that has chips inside basketballs to monitor the number of shots a player takes, where on the floor and if he/she misses or hits a shot. You'd think they have this tech for football as well. https://www.ocolly.com/sports/trackers-in-the-toolbox-how-osu-basketball-uses-technology-to-gain-an-edge/article_eca722aa-4ec7-11eb-8bed-d7c1a36171c2.html Imagine how expensive that would get. 300,000 baseballs are used in a MLB season. Then think about all the fans that would have access to those chips with foul balls and HR's... and I could see someone hacking the MLB network to screw up a game. Baseball doesn't need chips. They already have the strikezone box on broadcasts. Just implement a version of it to call balls and strikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 4 hours ago, loyal2dagame said: Baseball doesn't need chips. They already have the strikezone box on broadcasts. Just implement a version of it to call balls and strikes Better yet, have a guy behind the catcher just call them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginthepast Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 I think this is a great idea but as others have pointed out where the knee or elbow is would still be a ref's decision. Still its a smart start towards better accuracy than guessing which unfortunately is the norm with these officials. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 On 10/13/2022 at 8:39 PM, Ga boy said: Do we get the female robot voice: In 23 yards you will reach you destination. Actually certain plays in a football game would be hysterical if commented this way. "In 26 yards you will reach your destination. Warning! Imminent collision with defender's left buttock." OK maybe I just have a warped sense of humor, but you have to imagine that in the robot voice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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