Can someone PLEASE explain the holding rules to me like I'm 8?

[billsfan1959]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

Where is the complaining about the Missed PI on Poyer? That ended the Ravens Drive

 

And Brandon Stephens' missed pass interference against McKenzie prevented a first down at the 11 yard line and forced Buffalo to settle for a FG.

 

And so it goes, on and on...

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Where is the complaining about the Missed PI on Poyer? That ended the Ravens Drive

Because that is a bang-bang play, not easy to see at full speed.

 

Holding is quite easy to see in comparison.

 

This hold literally continued for several seconds.

 

 

[Da webster guy]

The general approach is to watch the body of the player being held and how they're impacted by it.

Its clear that there is a clutch and grab element to most blocks nowadays, usually shoulder pads/jersey being where the offender holds.

That usually gets ignored unless it results in turning, twisting or slowing down a player significantly.  

 

It seemed to me that The Ravens strategy on the offensive line yesterday was to hold everyone until they start flagging it, which took the refs almost a quarter to do.

 

[AlfaBill]

29 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

That one I accept much more than the one earlier in game where our DB was literally being grabbed from behind. Plays like above should probably be called but sometimes it is hard to see in the speed of game.

I saw it. It was sooooo obvious. Yeah sometimes in a mass of men it’s hard to see but geez it was impossible not to see

[Jukester]

Check with Jerry Hughes on his opinion. Dude was held pretty much every play and hardly ever got a call.

Offensive holding these days seems to be based on 2 things:

1. Which officiating crew is calling the game. Some are more flag heavy than others 

2. It’s become fairly obvious that officials have been told to only call holding when it is directly impacting a play, meaning the hold is near the runner or quarterback which allows him to make a big play or gain.

 

Now of course #2 is very subjective and that’s where #1 matters.

 

I thought the hold on Dane Jackson was egregious enough to have been called. It allowed Jackson to roll out of the pocket and make a big play to wide open WR. I don’t recall the result of the other screen shot above. 
 

As fans we always see the missed calls against our team and overlook the non-calls that go in our favor. As long as it’s called the same way for both teams, I don’t have a huge problem with it and it’s when you see inconsistency by the crew which favors one team over the other that it becomes a problem.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

 

And Brandon Stephens' missed pass interference against McKenzie prevented a first down at the 11 yard line and forced Buffalo to settle for a FG.

 

And so it goes, on and on...

Yep the Refs are Human and looking at alot.  There are missed plays all the time.  

 

I will never understand the NFLs reluctance to allow technology to take some of these things officials have to watch and control off their plates.

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

Because that is a bang-bang play, not easy to see at full speed.

 

Holding is quite easy to see in comparison.

 

This hold literally continued for several seconds.

 

 

Actually it was Very Easy.  the minute the play happened even Poyer looked for the flag.  So Yeah 

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Where is the complaining about the Missed PI on Poyer? That ended the Ravens Drive

Its hanging out with the missed PI on McKenzie that ended our drive.

[The Jokeman]

12 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

How about the roughing the Passer call on Josh Allen late in the game?

 

That's about as ticky tack as it gets, though josh sold it well. 

The DB stopped running and then charged again to hit Allen, it might not have been called had he not stopped yet think because he did is why it was. 

[Big Turk]

Holding seems to almost have to be egregious now to get a call and sometimes not even then.  

 

There is a saying that holding can be called on virtually every play, and that isn't far from the truth.

 

So here is what should constitute holding according to the NFL rule book:

 

[An offensive blocker] Use[s] his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to:

1. grabbing or tackling an opponent;

2. hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or

3. pulling him to the ground.

 

And here are the exceptions to the above that the offense can legally do:

 

When a defensive player is held by an offensive player during the following situations, Offensive Holding will not be called:

1. if the runner is being tackled simultaneously by another defensive player;

2. if the runner simultaneously goes out of bounds;

3. if a Fair Catch is made simultaneously;

4. if the action clearly occurs after a forward pass has been thrown to a receiver beyond the line of scrimmage;

5. if the action occurs away from the point of attack and not within close line play;

6. if a free kick results in a touchback;

7. if a scrimmage kick simultaneously becomes a touchback;

8. if the action is part of a double-team block, unless the defender splits the double team, gets to the outside of either blocker, or is taken to the ground; or

9. if, during a defensive charge, a defensive player uses a “rip” technique that puts an offensive player in a position that would normally be holding.

 

Exception: Holding will be called if the defender’s feet are taken away from him by the blocker’s action.

 

 

So I actually just learned something... hear on the broadcasts all the time that it's a hold because the hands went outside the frame of the body...well according to the actual rules, that doesn't matter...so grabbing a defender inside their frame is STILL a penalty, although it will never get called.

 

[CountDorkula]

7 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Because that is a bang-bang play, not easy to see at full speed.

 

Holding is quite easy to see in comparison.

 

This hold literally continued for several seconds.

 

 

 

and if it was the other way around, that play would be b**** about in this thread. 

[Mr. WEO]

17 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

How about the roughing the Passer call on Josh Allen late in the game?

 

That's about as ticky tack as it gets, though josh sold it well. 

 

 

Holding my breath for the OP to start another thread asking to explain "roughing the passer like he's 8"....

[AlfaBill]

13 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

It wasn't a hard hit; however, the defensive player pulled up, had his head up, and saw that Allen had already thrown the pass, and then continued on to hit Allen. It was the hesitation and then the contact after the ball had been released. It is going to be called almost every time.

Right? Why is this so hard for some to grasp. It’s a penalty all day 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Holding my breath for the OP to start another thread asking to explain "roughing the passer like he's 8"....

I'm smart enough to understand that it was a make-up call. My point here is, again, MAKE THE RIGHT DAMNED CALLS THE FIRST TIME, don't rely on make-up calls to balance the scales.

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

56 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

I mean, really?

 

That one wasn't called because he let him go "just in time". I agree with the poster who said there is holding on every play, they usually only call the obvious ones that maintain the hold instead of releasing.  That being said, stop posting on this site while you are in class and put your phone away.  Oh, and make sure you eat your carrots at lunch today...

 

(ps, OP, I did not mean that as an insult, I was just joking cause you said to explain it like you were 8)

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by buffaloboyinATL

[billrooter]

14 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yes that is the response because you know what those plays happen EVERY FREAKING snap.  and every freaking week there are post crying about the refs missed calls on every board, swing on over to the ravens board and read what they thing of the Refs.

The picture can be misleading for sure, but edge rushers being held that obviously is usually called. The interior linemen tend to get away with it more often because obviously their are more obstructions. While I agree holding happens every downtown to a degree, not on an edge rushers moments away from creating chaos for the quaterback.

[Kmart128]

38 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

I truly believe the garbage OPI call a few plays later was a makeup call for this one, but I would prefer they just call this.

Even then it wasnt even much of a make up call... because a hold ton that play potentially puts them out of FG range

[Pags24]

13 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

Because that is a bang-bang play, not easy to see at full speed.

 

Holding is quite easy to see in comparison.

 

This hold literally continued for several seconds.

 

 

This was the one that I lost my sh&# on....I understand calls are missed, but this one was isolated and a blatant hold for a couple of seconds.  Some calls went our way too but to miss this one was ridiculous

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

29 minutes ago, yall said:

This is the play that had me yelling at my TV:

 

"How the ***** is that not holding?!?!?!"

I understand letting them play a little bit on questionable holds but you can’t let that one go lol 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

That one wasn't called because he let him go "just in time". I agree with the poster who said there is holding on every play, they usually only call the obvious ones that maintain the hold instead of releasing.  That being said, stop posting on this site while you are in class and put your phone away.  Oh, and make sure you eat your carrots at lunch today...

He held him for a looong time haha I think overall in the game they missed an equal number of holds for both teams but this one just had to be called imo 

[sabres431]

34 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

How about the roughing the Passer call on Josh Allen late in the game?

 

That's about as ticky tack as it gets, though josh sold it well. 

The only replays I saw were from behind.  I'd like to see a replay from another angle.  But Josh did a great job of snapping his neck back which sold it.  He either faked it really well or we need to see another angle to see if he was actually hit in the head or not.

[BRH]

49 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Boger and his crew are one of the worst in the game. Just completely inconsistent every game they crew. Should’ve been fired years ago.

 

I didn't realize Boger was 67 years old.

 

We are long since past the time when we should have guys eligible for Social Security refereeing NFL games.  Let them do high school games.

[HamSandwhich]

26 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yep the Refs are Human and looking at alot.  There are missed plays all the time.  

 

I will never understand the NFLs reluctance to allow technology to take some of these things officials have to watch and control off their plates.

Actually it was Very Easy.  the minute the play happened even Poyer looked for the flag.  So Yeah 

That wasn’t pass interference, it was them getting there at the same time and Poyer had position. All players look around for flags now with how flag happy they are. 

[nedboy7]

That was bad officiating.  Which seems to go on in about half the games.  Almost makes it laughable for a 100 billion dollar industry.  Which makes me think they like it this way with their dumb refs. 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

That wasn’t pass interference, it was them getting there at the same time and Poyer had position. All players look around for flags now with how flag happy they are. 

Except it was CLEAR on replay Poyer was there massively early.  But he bad calls go both ways all the time that is the nature of the NFL.  I guess it is the nature of some fans to complain about the ones that didnt go their way and try an excuse the missed calls that did go their way.

[BFLO]

6 minutes ago, HamSandwhich said:

That wasn’t pass interference, it was them getting there at the same time and Poyer had position. All players look around for flags now with how flag happy they are. 

Nah. Poyer was guilty. But they let a Raven get away with the same play earlier in the game that ended a Bills drive. So it was fair not to call Poyer either. The refs were consistent about this being a non-call for both teams, at least for this game. 

[SDS]

43 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Where is the complaining about the Missed PI on Poyer? That ended the Ravens Drive

Why don’t you start your own topic about it? This one seems to be about holding.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, BFLO said:

Nah. Poyer was guilty. But they let a Raven get away with the same play earlier in the game that ended a Bills drive. So it was fair not to call Poyer either. The refs were consistent about this being a non-call for both teams, at least for this game. 

 

And this is the Key.  Are the Refs Consistent in HOW they are calling the game?  If the answer is YES then the game was called fairly and should not cry about the Refs.

[Billz4ever]

48 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

How about the roughing the Passer call on Josh Allen late in the game?

 

That's about as ticky tack as it gets, though josh sold it well. 

We're still on this?

 

How is it so hard to believe the refs threw the flag on a defender that literally hesitated to make the hit, then after ball was thrown, decides to engage anyway and hit the QB high up in the upper chest, close to the chin?

 

Are you kidding me right now?

 

 

[fan_in_tx]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Sure. 
 

holding can be called on every NFL play. Is that the type Of football you want to watch?  

So what you are saying is Holding is the only way to "block" NFL linemen?  Why not define holding effectively and call it on every play until it stops... Same with PI calls. 

[MAJBobby]

Penalties 

 

Bills 4 (31 yards)

Ravens 9 (70 yards).

 

 

[Billz4ever]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And this is the Key.  Are the Refs Consistent in HOW they are calling the game?  If the answer is YES then the game was called fairly and should not cry about the Refs.

The only thing consistent about the refs in this game is they were consistently bad.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, fan_in_tx said:

So what you are saying is Holding is the only way to "block" NFL linemen?  Why not define holding effectively and call it on every play until it stops... Same with PI calls. 

What I am saying is 5 players hold on EVERY PLAY (by how the rule is written).  So what do you want?  I got an idea and say ok the refs are applying how they are going to enforce the hold equally to both teams.  Then move on.

 

There were missed calls on both teams, but the rules were applied consistently amongst both teams, what is there to complain about.

 

Besides maybe putting MORE refs on the field?  Adding technology to take some off the Refs plate?

[Big Turk]

14 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

That was bad officiating.  Which seems to go on in about half the games.  Almost makes it laughable for a 100 billion dollar industry.  Which makes me think they like it this way with their dumb refs. 

 

I think what we are starting to learn is that the game has become so fast and so athletic that it has become very hard to get every call right as it happens live in front of you.  The fact they get so many right that are very close is pretty amazing to me.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

The only thing consistent about the refs in this game is they were consistently bad.

For both teams.  Meaning then a level playing field.  Yep give me that because then my better team SHOULD win if there is a level playing field.

[billrooter]

55 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

How about the roughing the Passer call on Josh Allen late in the game?

 

That's about as ticky tack as it gets, though josh sold it well. 

Yes it certainly was.....

[Matt_In_NH]

It is not black and white.

 

Holding happens on most plays but is generally only called when it directly affects the play if it is seen.  It is often not seen and you have to just accept the NFL does not want to call it all the time as it ruins the product.   While you have a nice screenshot of what looks like a hold by the Ravens you can probably find many that were not called against the Bills.  Some people think everything favors the Bills opponents, I am not one of them.  Yesterday penalties were 4 (Bills) to 9(Ravens).  I believe the Ravens DB's played very aggressively vs the Bills receivers (strategically) and got away with it most of the first half, they finally called it a couple times before the half was over.  All teams/players stretch the limits to find where the officially will make the call.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

I think what we are starting to learn is that the game has become so fast and so athletic that it has become very hard to get every call right as it happens live in front of you.  The fact they get so many right that are very close is pretty amazing to me.

 

Completely agree, specially with the fact the league just puts more and more on these guys instead of using technology to take some off them.  Like for example WHY does the back judge STILL have to look at the play clock.  A simple little Buzzer makes it easy.  Why are they still using taped chains to see about 10 yards.  so much stuff could be offloaded from these guys and the NFL refuses to do it 

[Billz4ever]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

What I am saying is 5 players hold on EVERY PLAY (by how the rule is written).  So what do you want?  I got an idea and say ok the refs are applying how they are going to enforce the hold equally to both teams.  Then move on.

 

There were missed calls on both teams, but the rules were applied consistently amongst both teams, what is there to complain about.

 

Besides maybe putting MORE refs on the field?  Adding technology to take some off the Refs plate?

If my only job was to call things like this and I'm missing calls this obvious, I would get fired.  These were obvious holds that everyone on TV were watching in real time with refs right there and no call.  They can penalize referee squads and the amount of bad calls in this game seriously warrants such action.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

My guess is the ref was looking at a different part of the line when that’s happening.   I mean you just sometimes miss stuff.   They are human after all.

 

The vast majority of people cannot comprehend this.  And if you called everything the game would suck or be forced to change in other ways.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, stevewin said:

No idea how this was not called. He is pulling him down.