NFLPA initiating investigation into Tua’s concussion protocol

[Southern_Bills]

2 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

It's not preventing the injury, it's what happened afterwards. Big Turk stated that , on WGR, they said he was injured in the game but carried on playing. As atlbillsfan1975 asked, I'm not sure if the Bills were aware or Doyle complained of injury until after the game.

 

I was unaware of that information, but I can see where it went unnoticed. 

 

I still remember Jordy Nelson tearing his ACL in preseason and walking off like nothing happened, same for Carson Wentz years later, even ran a TD in after the injury. 

 

If they knew, which I doubt, that's bad. 

 

The Tua thing was a week long commitment to a lie.

[Andy1]

Sound like Tua should be out for the season. We’ll see what happens. 

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

Sound like Tua should be out for the season. We’ll see what happens. 

 

Oh look @GunnerBill another Neurosurgeon agrees

[WideNine]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Hmmm good question.  I think thats a grey area because I think the penalties arent even called right half the time.  There are a lot of head shots never called for instance. Some of them are even fined after not being called on the field.  Others seem to me a weak call.  For instance I thought the Milano call was weak.  Im sure its a penalty by definition but I see that also go uncalled all the time.  I believe that shove caused a concussion and I was ok with the flag but it seems pretty weak to throw someone out of a game and or suspend them for.

 

Also, looking at the play that actually put Tua on a stretcher and in concussion protocol, there wasnt anything dirty about it.  Not a penalty.  Yet it caused a concussion. Does that guy now get a suspension for it?  I dunno.  A little grey.

Also once someone has a few concussions a love tap can cause another.

 

Seen this in hockey for years.

 

Hard to penalize a player or think it is malicious when hitting the boards or the ground just comes with the game.

 

Now Wilkins trying to take Knox's head off on a blindside tackle yes.

 

Shameful how Miami handled this. Not a person on this board believed the back spasm narrative.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by WideNine

[Neo]

12 hours ago, DaggersEOD said:

Exactly this. 
 

The issue is, he was never e v a l’d for a concussion after the hit, on the sidelines. They walked him right into the locker room and probably gave him smelling salts until he came to. 
 

They told the “independent neurosurgeon” that he had a back injury which the Doctor cleared him of.

 

There is no way he passed a concussion e v a l. They didn’t do one because they called it something else. 
 

Is there a way to confirm with the game footage out there? Can we see him going to a tent to be evaluated? 

I was there.   I wasn’t documenting, so there’s room for error, but I have a clear memory of him going straight to the locker room.

[Low Positive]

29 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

Sound like Tua should be out for the season. We’ll see what happens. 

Unless the NFL steps in for PR reasons, Tua will play next Sunday.

[UKBillFan]

10 minutes ago, WideNine said:

Also once someone has a few concussions a love tap can cause another.

 

Seen this in hockey for years.

 

Hard to penalize a player or think it is malicious when hitting the boards or the ground just comes with the game.

 

Now Wilkins trying to take Knox's head off on a blindside tackle yes.

 

Shameful how Miami handled this. Not a person on this board believed the back spasm narrative.

 

 

 

 

 

If they're honest, I doubt many Dolphins fans believe the back spasm excuse either.

[Rat-boy]

17 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

If they're honest, I doubt many Dolphins fans believe the back spasm excuse either.

I am often very surprised what many Dolphin fans believe based on their posts on this board, actually. Not calling anyone out by handle, but we all know who they are. 😀

[Nextmanup]

Here's the language from the concussion protocol. 

 

If you read it carefully, you will see why the Dolphins invented the story that Tua had a bad back; they were looking for an orthopedic "cause" of his Gross Motor Instability, so that they could argue it was OK for him to return to the game.

 

Had they conceded that the Gross Motor Instability we all saw was the result of a neurological condition (hit to head) and not an orthopedic cause, Tua would have fallen immediately into the "NO GO" provision, meaning, he could not return to the game, regardless if he may have been "cleared" during inspection at halftime.  But obviously they wanted him to return, regardless of his actual condition.  

 

"No-Go" Signs and Symptoms.

 

If a player exhibits or reports any of the following signs or symptoms of concussion, he must be removed immediately from the field of play and transported to the locker room. If a neutral sideline observer or a member of the player's club's medical team observes a player exhibit or receives a report that a player has experienced any of the following signs or symptoms, the player shall be considered to have suffered a concussion and may not return to participation (practice or play) on the same day under any circumstances:

 

1) Loss of Consciousness (including Impact Seizure and/or "fencing posture")

 

2)  Gross Motor Instability (GMI), identified in the judgment of the club medical staff in consultation with the Sideline UNC, who observe the player's behavior, have access to the player's relevant history and are able to rule out an orthopedic cause for any observed instability

 

3) Confusion

 

4 )Amnesia

 

https://www.nfl.com/playerhealthandsafety/resources/fact-sheets/nfl-head-neck-and-spine-committee-s-concussion-diagnosis-and-management-protocol

[Captain Caveman]

23 minutes ago, Neo said:

I was there.   I wasn’t documenting, so there’s room for error, but I have a clear memory of him going straight to the locker room.

 

I think he went straight to the locker room because it was so close to halftime.

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

 

 

2)  Gross Motor Instability (GMI), identified in the judgment of the club medical staff in consultation with the Sideline UNC, who observe the player's behavior, have access to the player's relevant history and are able to rule out an orthopedic cause for any observed instability

 

 

The underlined text is kind of ***** up, because it's basically saying that if they can't rule out an orthopedic cause (even if they can't confirm it's an orthopedic cause) then they get to use that as an excuse to put him back in.

 

Am I reading it right?

[Rat-boy]

Just saw this - very good read, and apologies in advance if someone posted this in one of the other threads where this topic is coming up.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/09/30/tua-tagovailoa-concussion-protocol-loophole-exposed

 

 

[Nextmanup]

7 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said:

 

I think he went straight to the locker room because it was so close to halftime.

 

The underlined text is kind of ***** up, because it's basically saying that if they can't rule out an orthopedic cause (even if they can't confirm it's an orthopedic cause) then they get to use that as an excuse to put him back in.

 

Am I reading it right?

That's one way to interpret the rule for sure.  

 

I think the spirit of the rule is saying that if you see a player stumbling around punch drunk, or falling to the ground in a state of imbalance, he has to be removed from any further playing that day, unless you can show the GMI was "orthopedic" in nature, meaning, unrelated to head injury.

 

If you can rule out the orthopedic cause, he has to come out.

 

Miami basically invented an orthopedic cause to get around this rule which is sort of a de facto "thou shalt not return" type of rule, given what we all saw Tua doing on the field.

 

 

 

[WideNine]

10 minutes ago, Rat-boy said:

Just saw this - very good read, and apologies in advance if someone posted this in one of the other threads where this topic is coming up.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/09/30/tua-tagovailoa-concussion-protocol-loophole-exposed

 

 

I am a bit tired of seeing the "Milano slamming his head into the turf" exaggeration.

 

Milano shoved him while turning away and Tua fell backwards and hit his own head in the turf.

 

QBs get "the shove" after a throw many times and go down and make contact with the turf.

 

Allen has played a few of those up to draw late hit flags... a few times it has worked.

 

Most QB's after those don't go full bobble-head concussed unless there are already some underlying  issues.

 

This was hardly head-hunting by Milano. It was the "meh" hit followed by the extreem effect on Tua that made me think concussion right out of the gate...and not his first one either.

 

 

 

 

[Captain Hindsight]

4 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

 

Yeah, I mean I could be wrong here.....but I can't recall a single instance seeing any player that got up stumbling after hitting his head on the ground getting cleared from protocol in that short amount of time even if it turned out to not be a concussion.

Only example I could think of is Tom Savage with the Texans. He was allowed to stay in for a play or two clearly hurt 

 

This article has a few examples 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/texans-tom-savage-briefly-returns-despite-suffering-scary-looking-concussion/amp/

 

[Rat-boy]

5 minutes ago, WideNine said:

I am a bit tired of seeing the "Milano slamming his head into the turf" exaggeration.

 

Milano shoved him while turning away and Tua fell backwards and hit his own head in the turf.

 

QBs get "the shove" after a throw many times and go down and make contact with the turf.

 

Allen has played a few of those up to draw late hit flags... a few times it has worked.

 

Most QB's after those don't go full bobble-head concussed unless there are already some underlying  issues.

 

This was hardly head-hunting by Milano. It was the "meh" hit followed by the extreem effect on Tua that made me think concussion right out of the gate...and not his first one either.

 

 

 

 

Yep, he didn’t tuck his chin. Someone told me QBs are taught to do that when pushed backwards…I can’t speak for the veracity of this claim though.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Only example I could think of is Tom Savage with the Texans. He was allowed to stay in for a play or two clearly hurt 

 

This article has a few examples 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/texans-tom-savage-briefly-returns-despite-suffering-scary-looking-concussion/amp/

 

Yeah but Savage briefly came back and then went to locker room. Tua just finished the game. But I still see what you mean

[Scott7975]

39 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Here's the language from the concussion protocol. 

 

If you read it carefully, you will see why the Dolphins invented the story that Tua had a bad back; they were looking for an orthopedic "cause" of his Gross Motor Instability, so that they could argue it was OK for him to return to the game.

 

Had they conceded that the Gross Motor Instability we all saw was the result of a neurological condition (hit to head) and not an orthopedic cause, Tua would have fallen immediately into the "NO GO" provision, meaning, he could not return to the game, regardless if he may have been "cleared" during inspection at halftime.  But obviously they wanted him to return, regardless of his actual condition.  

 

"No-Go" Signs and Symptoms.

 

If a player exhibits or reports any of the following signs or symptoms of concussion, he must be removed immediately from the field of play and transported to the locker room. If a neutral sideline observer or a member of the player's club's medical team observes a player exhibit or receives a report that a player has experienced any of the following signs or symptoms, the player shall be considered to have suffered a concussion and may not return to participation (practice or play) on the same day under any circumstances:

 

1) Loss of Consciousness (including Impact Seizure and/or "fencing posture")

 

2)  Gross Motor Instability (GMI), identified in the judgment of the club medical staff in consultation with the Sideline UNC, who observe the player's behavior, have access to the player's relevant history and are able to rule out an orthopedic cause for any observed instability

 

3) Confusion

 

4 )Amnesia

 

https://www.nfl.com/playerhealthandsafety/resources/fact-sheets/nfl-head-neck-and-spine-committee-s-concussion-diagnosis-and-management-protocol

 

Yep basically said the same thing in a couple threads.

[Captain Hindsight]

5 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Yeah but Savage briefly came back and then went to locker room. Tua just finished the game. But I still see what you mean

Right, only example I could think of. It’s unheard of. Tua was clearly concussed and for them to put him back in? Gross negligence 

[Bray Wyatt]

13 minutes ago, Rat-boy said:

Yep, he didn’t tuck his chin. Someone told me QBs are taught to do that when pushed backwards…I can’t speak for the veracity of this claim though.

Wrestlers are taught to do this when taking bumps so this doesn’t happen, it doesn’t seem far fetched for this info to be relayed to qbs 

[Nextmanup]

29 minutes ago, WideNine said:

I am a bit tired of seeing the "Milano slamming his head into the turf" exaggeration.

 

Milano shoved him while turning away and Tua fell backwards and hit his own head in the turf.

 

QBs get "the shove" after a throw many times and go down and make contact with the turf.

 

Allen has played a few of those up to draw late hit flags... a few times it has worked.

 

Most QB's after those don't go full bobble-head concussed unless there are already some underlying  issues.

 

This was hardly head-hunting by Milano. It was the "meh" hit followed by the extreem effect on Tua that made me think concussion right out of the gate...and not his first one either.

 

 

 

 

Tua doesn't have a history of TBI going back to 2018.

 

He may have something from high school or even earlier, but I can't find a record of that.

 

It could be that he is just predisposed to having this sort of problem, and as soon as he gets hit, the condition reveals itself.

 

Now that he got injured twice in 4 days, his next one is likely to come even easier and the effects might be more severe.

 

If you were him, when would you go back to playing?  It's a tough decision to make.  I think I'd sit out a solid month.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Golden*Wheels said:

The injury in our game WAS reported as a head injury by the Dolphins BEFORE mysteriously becoming a back issue, wasn't it?

YES IT WAS!  And quite a while later changed to "back issue."   

 

Good point.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 hours ago, The Wiz said:

If that's the case should Edmunds be suspended for damn near ripping Jackson's head off?

 

He looked like he was going shoulder first on that hit so he wasn't trying to get a headshot on him. 

 

Chase was falling down and he lined up his hit wrong.   

 

These plays happen a lot and are part of the game when these guys are going to speed.   

 

Think of the concussion allen had back in 2019 against the pats.   No flag and no fine on the hit.  Was just a matter of a split second decision that ended up poorly. 

You can’t take these hits completely out of the game, but at least the penalized hits that lead to concussions.

 

If players start missing games it’s possible these hits begin to drop. 

[Big Turk]

7 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Did they report if he notified staff of the injury during the game? Or showed signs of the injury? 

 

No...just that he finished the game after it happened.

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Oh look @GunnerBill another Neurosurgeon agrees

 

Yes. Another person simply looking at the tv pictures which everyone agrees look like he had a concussion. 

 

The only person who matters is the person who conducted the examination. 

[Scott7975]

28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes. Another person simply looking at the tv pictures which everyone agrees look like he had a concussion. 

 

The only person who matters is the person who conducted the examination. 

 

That display is an automatic no go unless its ruled orthopedic.  I dont believe for one second that he was having back spasms.  Those examiners are either shady or incompetent. Either way they did Tua wrong.

[Mango]

13 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

It probably isn’t an automatic no go if there is some kind of reasonable alternate explanation…which they thought they had 

Its only a reasonable alternate if you ignore the replay. 
 

The goal of the evaluation should be to determine if the symptoms could be a product of a concussion. If so, you get pulled. You can’t risk messing with your brain. The goal shouldn’t be alternative differentials to explain why it isn’t a concussion. 

[GunnerBill]

56 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

That display is an automatic no go unless its ruled orthopedic.  I dont believe for one second that he was having back spasms.  Those examiners are either shady or incompetent. Either way they did Tua wrong.

 

I agree Tua was done wrong. But that is because there clearly remains a loophole in the policy where if a concussion is not diagnosed in the examination then a player who clearly displayed temporary loss of motor function is allowed 30 minutes later to back into a football game.

 

That cannot be allowed to happen again. It still doesn't get me to the doctor was shady or incompetent. 

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

That display is an automatic no go unless its ruled orthopedic.  I dont believe for one second that he was having back spasms.  Those examiners are either shady or incompetent. Either way they did Tua wrong.

 

They did Tua wrong on many levels, but that does not make the rest correct.

 

If the UNC came in and did a concussion evaluation and Tua passed and the Miami trainer didn’t notice anything different mentally and Tua states that it wasn’t my head it was my back that was the issue because he knows that would get him back in the game - then they do not have to be shady or incompetent - they just have nothing to hold him out based upon the rules.

 

The same thing happened to Mahomes without the second concussion situation.

 

The doctors have the video and act on the assumption of a concussion, but if the player passes all of the concussion testing and the player gives and orthopedic response - no it wasn’t my head it was my back - I landed funny and it spasmed as I stood up.  Then there is legitimate evidence based upon the ruling to allow him to return if he wants to.

 

The real issue is that the NFL and NFLPA need to get Tua’s side of the story and my guess is the NFLPA will not like that.  The doctors will state he passed - Tua will state he passed - everything will go down to was the back his “idea” or was it something the team trainer stated that gave him the loophole.

 

If it was the trainer - fire him and fine the team and take away draft picks.

If it was Tua knowing that might get him back in - what can you do - Bart Scott said it earlier - the players game the system.  
 

Without the players being honest - there will always be opportunities for this to occur- same issue with clearing protocol- if they are not honest about symptoms then they clear faster before they are ready.

 

 

[UKBillFan]

26 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

They did Tua wrong on many levels, but that does not make the rest correct.

 

If the UNC came in and did a concussion evaluation and Tua passed and the Miami trainer didn’t notice anything different mentally and Tua states that it wasn’t my head it was my back that was the issue because he knows that would get him back in the game - then they do not have to be shady or incompetent - they just have nothing to hold him out based upon the rules.

 

The same thing happened to Mahomes without the second concussion situation.

 

The doctors have the video and act on the assumption of a concussion, but if the player passes all of the concussion testing and the player gives and orthopedic response - no it wasn’t my head it was my back - I landed funny and it spasmed as I stood up.  Then there is legitimate evidence based upon the ruling to allow him to return if he wants to.

 

The real issue is that the NFL and NFLPA need to get Tua’s side of the story and my guess is the NFLPA will not like that.  The doctors will state he passed - Tua will state he passed - everything will go down to was the back his “idea” or was it something the team trainer stated that gave him the loophole.

 

If it was the trainer - fire him and fine the team and take away draft picks.

If it was Tua knowing that might get him back in - what can you do - Bart Scott said it earlier - the players game the system.  
 

Without the players being honest - there will always be opportunities for this to occur- same issue with clearing protocol- if they are not honest about symptoms then they clear faster before they are ready.

 

 

If it was Tua, then rule him out for the rest of the season. Firstly, it protects him; secondly it sends a message to every other player to put their safety first, otherwise the risk is this continues. And whatever Tua said, everyone watching could see it was concussion, not his back, so the franchise trying to fob everyone off doesn’t wash.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

😝 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree Tua was done wrong. But that is because there clearly remains a loophole in the policy where if a concussion is not diagnosed in the examination then a player who clearly displayed temporary loss of motor function is allowed 30 minutes later to back into a football game.

 

That cannot be allowed to happen again. It still doesn't get me to the doctor was shady or incompetent. 

At best the doctor was ignored and the protocol is a total sham 

[Nextmanup]

I'm afraid this NFLPA investigation isn't being well run.

 

It needs to be very FAST and HARD HITTING and VOCAL.

 

It is currently none of those things.

 

 

[transient]

4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

The same thing happened to Mahomes without the second concussion situation.

 

If you’re referring to the “choke out”, the same thing did not happen to Mahomes. He was taken out of that game. Chad Henne finished it. People were outraged because he played the next game. However, even if it was a concussion, if he had passed the protocol he could have played. IIRC, he wasn’t in the protocol because they determined it wasn’t a concussion and that was why people were outraged. 

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree Tua was done wrong. But that is because there clearly remains a loophole in the policy where if a concussion is not diagnosed in the examination then a player who clearly displayed temporary loss of motor function is allowed 30 minutes later to back into a football game.

 

That cannot be allowed to happen again. It still doesn't get me to the doctor was shady or incompetent. 

 

5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

They did Tua wrong on many levels, but that does not make the rest correct.

 

If the UNC came in and did a concussion evaluation and Tua passed and the Miami trainer didn’t notice anything different mentally and Tua states that it wasn’t my head it was my back that was the issue because he knows that would get him back in the game - then they do not have to be shady or incompetent - they just have nothing to hold him out based upon the rules.

 

The same thing happened to Mahomes without the second concussion situation.

 

The doctors have the video and act on the assumption of a concussion, but if the player passes all of the concussion testing and the player gives and orthopedic response - no it wasn’t my head it was my back - I landed funny and it spasmed as I stood up.  Then there is legitimate evidence based upon the ruling to allow him to return if he wants to.

 

The real issue is that the NFL and NFLPA need to get Tua’s side of the story and my guess is the NFLPA will not like that.  The doctors will state he passed - Tua will state he passed - everything will go down to was the back his “idea” or was it something the team trainer stated that gave him the loophole.

 

If it was the trainer - fire him and fine the team and take away draft picks.

If it was Tua knowing that might get him back in - what can you do - Bart Scott said it earlier - the players game the system.  
 

Without the players being honest - there will always be opportunities for this to occur- same issue with clearing protocol- if they are not honest about symptoms then they clear faster before they are ready.

 

 

 

Sorry but I dont agree.  Someone on that sideline should have stepped up and said "no" regardless of the rules.  That is incompetence at its finest.  A top neurologist said they are trained and they know the signs and those signs were clear.  A player needs to be protected from himself.  Everyone in the world could see the concussion signs just by watching on TV.  That should have been an automatic regardless of what the player said or the passing of a test in a case where symptoms can take hours to days to show.  Thats incompetence.  

 

If you are putting a player back on the field just because the rules say you can and not because he is definitely fine then that is corrupt.  Even if you think for one second "oh its just his back," the loss of motor control to the point that he collapsed should be enough on its own to pull him out because there is something wrong there.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I'm afraid this NFLPA investigation isn't being well run.

 

It needs to be very FAST and HARD HITTING and VOCAL.

 

It is currently none of those things.

 

 

 

Considering they sent questions to be answered on Sunday and by Thursday they still werent answered... you know the lawyers are trying to come up with the best language to answer those questions.  Already shady in my book.

[Motorin']

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree Tua was done wrong. But that is because there clearly remains a loophole in the policy where if a concussion is not diagnosed in the examination then a player who clearly displayed temporary loss of motor function is allowed 30 minutes later to back into a football game.

 

That cannot be allowed to happen again. It still doesn't get me to the doctor was shady or incompetent. 

 

I get where you are coming from. And in lieu of any evidence at all of a concussion, I'd agree. But concussion specialists have weighed in, and claim that was clear and obvious evidence of a concussion when Tua went down.

 

Not only did he not reach for his back, but he shook his head, a sign of a concussed person trying to "clear the cobwebs" and then reached for his head and adjusted his helmet. 

 

At this point, we have to keep in mind that a person can have serious physical brain trauma and still be able to pass testing. Similar to a drunk person being able to pass field sobriety tests... And the neurologists don't appear to have anything akin to a breathalizer to know for sure... That's why the list of no-go symptoms were out in place, and Tua exhibited several. 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by Motorin'

[Scott7975]

5 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

I'm on the side of the players. If they want to play, let them play.

 

I am not.  They need protections from themselves.  Concussions lead to serious brain damage even if not right away they do down the road. How many lawsuits, early dimensia, other early neuro problems, suicides from the problem at a young life need to happen?  Its like seat belts.  No one would wear them if it wasnt a law.  Kids in the back seat wouldn't even be buckled.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I am not.  They need protections from themselves.  Concussions lead to serious brain damage even if not right away they do down the road. How many lawsuits, early dimensia, other early neuro problems, suicides from the problem at a young life need to happen?  Its like seat belts.  No one would wear them if it wasnt a law.  Kids in the back seat wouldn't even be buckled.

 

Nor am I. On that we agree. 

4 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I get where you are coming from. And in lieu of any evidence at all of a concussion, I'd agree. But concussion specialists have weighed in, and claim that was clear and obvious evidence of a concussion when Tua went down.

 

Not only did he not reach for his back, but he shook his head, a sign of a concussed person trying to "clear the cobwebs" and then reached for his head and adjusted his helmet. 

 

At this point, we have to keep in mind that a person can have serious physical brain trauma and still be able to pass testing. Similar to a drunk person being able to pass field sobriety tests... And the neurologists don't appear to have anything akin to a breathalizer to know for sure... That's why the list of no-go symptoms were out in place, and Tua exhibited several. 

 

Again you are asking me to take experts looking at a screen over an expert who had the opportunity to examine Tua. Nobody is denying that what happened on the field were signs of a concussion. But, according to all reports, he was then examined by a professional and cleared and that professional will not have taken that responsibility lightly. That just isn't the way it works, and that is why the independent neurologists were brought in by the NFL in the first place. 

[Motorin']

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nor am I. On that we agree. 

 

Again you are asking me to take experts looking at a screen over an expert who had the opportunity to examine Tua. Nobody is denying that what happened on the field were signs of a concussion. But, according to all reports, he was then examined by a professional and cleared and that professional will not have taken that responsibility lightly. That just isn't the way it works, and that is why the independent neurologists were brought in by the NFL in the first place. 

 

That's a lot of faith in authority without realizing that the onset of diagnosable signs and symptoms of a concussion can be delayed for hours or days. 

 

Given that concussed players may not present immediately diagnosable symptoms on examination, I'm not suprised the Dolphins are lawyering up in light of the fact that they ignored clear physical evidence of a concussion that everyone else saw with their own two eyes. 

[Buddo]

I have to be more than a little incredulous, that a supposed independent neurological expert, was unable to make a diagnosis of a concussion, simply based off what happened.

 

Did nobody show him the film?

 

Has anyone checked his credentials?

 

I suppose there might be another possibility, of a more practical nature, which is that although you could have a brain surgeon on the sidelines, it doesn't necessarily follow that they are any good at diagnosing ordinary problems.

[Sestak4ever]

Regardless of what Tua said or a doctor's evaluation, just based off of what everyone saw you do not put him back in that game if you, as a team "leader" (coach) have one ounce of care or compassion for that individual's well being. True strong leaders make that decision and it sends the proper message to the team and the league.