Malazan Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Because the rough part is over. He will either win or make her whole. If it's true.. How, exactly, do you think you make a rape victim "whole"? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 minute ago, mannc said: Well, the Bills were in direct communication with the plaintiff’s lawyer weeks ago, well before Haack was cut…so they had to have already known that the allegations were very serious…I don’t think the “Araiza misled the Bills” argument makes much sense. Once, right? And they didn't follow up. And they didn't ask to talk to her. And they didn't ask to see a copy of a draft complaint. (The last point is an assumption, but holy cow, I can't imagine this guy sticking around if McD/Beane/anyone with a brain saw that thing.) The easiest way to resolve this is to get discovery moving and to get Araiza under oath. Let's see if he invokes the 5A under questioning. If that's the case, the Bills side of this is easily resolved. Of course, that won't happen until after the season starts. Hence the jam that we're in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Good overview of McDermott from last night. To me it appears that araiza and his representation wasnt forthcoming with the org. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 You know what would really suck? Bills cut He settles Signs with other team and hangs an 80 yarder on us. He either wins a Bills or crashes a Bill. We've crossed the Rubicon. 3 1 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake_My_Head Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 I may have it missed in all 200+ pages (and counting) but there's another really relevant reason for cutting MA: the 53 players who'll make up the roster, especially the veterans, who in all likelihood want this distraction to go away NOW in what's expected to be their best shot at a Super Bowl run this season. The vets have no ties to a rookie punter, know this will be a season-long media cluster**** and are way more likely to push for it to be over so they can concentrate on football. While I'm at heart a "due process" supporter, I can suck it up and advocate for what may be an unfair, career-ruining decision that causes Matt's name to never again appear on a Bills roster if it means better odds of winning a Lombardi this year. Shallow? Cruel? Yeah, I feel bad. But I can carry that weight... 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: They clearly should’ve kept Haack and put Araiza on the commissioner’s exempt list until this is sorted out due to the seriousness of the accusations. They can still sign a punter and put Araiza on exempt list but I’m sure McDermott is pissed that they’re starting over with a new punter/holder when Haack was on the roster 5 days ago. as he can’t face league punishment, could he even go on the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said: You know what would really suck? Bills cut He settles Signs with other team and hangs an 80 yarder on us. He either wins a Bills or crashes a Bill. We've crossed the Rubicon. What would really suck is if all of this is true. And it has more than a hint of merit. I'm not worried about Araiza here. It's the author of those diary entries who has my concern. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Just now, SectionC3 said: What would really suck is if all of this is true. And it has more than a hint of merit. I'm not worried about Araiza here. It's the author of those diary entries who has my concern. No. Because then he lied to Bills. Cut him and give him an orange jumpsuit (and I don't mean a Fins Uni). The Bills cab play victimized role. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Bills need to stay the course. Don't cut. They are committed. If he will work in the NFL... Bills took all the damage. Not much more can happen to them now. Get him ready for opening day and press on. It's a civil case. Unless it goes criminal, which seems odd it would go back that way, then cut. Bills paid the down payment on his talent. Not much more can happen to them now? So the media starting today will no longer bother McD with punt god questions? I don’t think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, mannc said: Well, the Bills were in direct communication with the plaintiff’s lawyer weeks ago, well before Haack was cut…so they had to have already known that the allegations were very serious…I don’t think the “Araiza misled the Bills” argument makes much sense. Maybe. Or maybe this lawyer was intentionally coy and didn't show his full hand. (He had no obligation to do so and, if anything, may have served his client best by playing it this way.) Or maybe the Bills didn't have the sense to think the lawyer might have been holding card. (Asking for a preview of the complaint is a good way to get a handle on something like that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: To me the easy one is to look at the campus sexual assault reporting with respect to any player you're looking to bring in. Campus sexual assault has been an issue at several college football programs recently. Then, I don't know, make a phone call to the AD, to the coach, to campus police and see if there's anything you need to know about these prospects. It doesn't even have to be "is this guy involved in this issue?" It can be as simple as "should I keep looking on this issue?" or "do you have any character concerns, even if you can't get into specifics?" or "is there anything that you can't tell me that might embarrass me later?" It's not that hard. Two teams were able to figure this out. Why weren't we? That's a problem. Don't forget prison. He may go to prison. He's not out of the woods yet there. you don’t always get straight answers on those? Also telling future employers about rumors of issues could be sketchy for an organization. I agree it’s nice to know first. Sometimes it’s dumb luck if you have a close personal contact in the loop at a random lower tier school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPJax Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) 58 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Then. If this is true... Bills need to back him. BUT if it's true... IMO, he's still liable in a civil suit I would think. Did he make sure she was safe? NO. Obviously she wasn't. The analogy I can think of is dropping someone off home? Do you wait until they get door unlocked and enter safely OR just speed off. Seems to me, Araiza just speed off without making sure she was safe. In a civil case, the burden is less. He's still guilty in the situation you explained. Maybe not guilty of the most heinous acts, but still liable for her safety. It was his residence, right? All fair points. Let’s allow all facts to come out. Is a 21 year old responsible for expecting friends to act like most decent people usually react. I know my friends back At that age I hung with would never act that terribly and I would trust them if I left a room. In fact my friends in undergrad did watch over some women friends who drank a little too much and had they sexually acted out , why would I be responsible.for them if I was absent and not watching it go down? If he watched without reporting it , then yes he would be just as guilty asan accomplish. Choose your friends wisely. I was hoping to get into Med school back then and when you know your career depends on being squeaky clean , you just can’t associate with people who lack appropriate judgement. Just like a career in the nfl , it’s that competitive and any negative marks are useD to weed out the field. Matt might be learning a costly life lesson , but he deserves his side to be heard out. If found civically guilty, then perhaps an arbitrator can help the bills in their resolution. There might be something positive out of this if let’s say like Michael Vick , he continues his career but becomes an advocate so more young men don’t make similar bad choices. Im just saying , let’s take some time and maybe helping him might be making lemonade from the worst lemons, while still not being dismissive to the poor victim. Just cutting him may not help in the long game. It’s analogous to helping someone overcome addiction even knowing they have harmed others along the way. Just a thought. Edited August 27, 2022 by DrPJax 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 minute ago, SectionC3 said: Once, right? And they didn't follow up. And they didn't ask to talk to her. And they didn't ask to see a copy of a draft complaint. (The last point is an assumption, but holy cow, I can't imagine this guy sticking around if McD/Beane/anyone with a brain saw that thing.) The easiest way to resolve this is to get discovery moving and to get Araiza under oath. Let's see if he invokes the 5A under questioning. If that's the case, the Bills side of this is easily resolved. Of course, that won't happen until after the season starts. Hence the jam that we're in. It’s conceivable that the plaintiff’s lawyer only gave the Bills a hint of what was coming, but maybe Araiza didn’t know either, until the complaint was filed. Here’s what I don’t understand: Why was the plaintiff’s lawyer talking to the Bills? Was it as part of the Bills’ investigation or did plaintiff’s lawyer initiate those calls as part of his “settlement strategy”? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Just now, ExiledInIllinois said: No. Because then he lied to Bills. Cut him and give him an orange jumpsuit (and I don't mean a Fins Uni). The Bills cab play victimized role. What do you mean no? The worst part about this is the incident itself. We're talking here about an entertainment component to a friggin human tragedy. Some laundry that we have been conditioned to love and some guy who kicks a ball a great distance pale in comparison to what a family likely is enduring as a result of this incident. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Just now, BTB said: Not much more can happen to them now? So the media starting today will no longer bother McD with punt god questions? I don’t think so. Sorta. Don't dwell on it. "Onto next week, next question, danke." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said: HA! Absolutely everything is correct -to date.. Your “facts” don’t enter into the wrongness of your post. How you use those “facts” most certainly do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
die hard bills fan Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Ariza is finished. He has been found guilty by the court of public opinion, and even if he is found innocent by the facts, I doubt he plays in the nfl anymore. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 minute ago, BTB said: Not much more can happen to them now? So the media starting today will no longer bother McD with punt god questions? I don’t think so. At some point, if they do keep him, you put a wall around the topic and keep moving. He doesn’t have to give emotional responses daily the rest of the year. I don’t know where this goes ultimately but he’s not going to have hundreds of reporters descending on western ny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 3 hours ago, LeGOATski said: Unlike any player, that could subject the Bills to a grievance from Araiza's side/NFLPA. I'm not in favor of cutting him if he did nothing wrong. The Bills' FO needs to get it's ***** together, because the actions of drafting him and naming him the starter are contradictory to their actions last night. Something is wrong there. They can cut for anything they want. They just can’t get money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 minute ago, NoSaint said: you don’t always get straight answers on those? Also telling future employers about rumors of issues could be sketchy for an organization. I agree it’s nice to know first. Sometimes it’s dumb luck if you have a close personal contact in the loop at a random lower tier school No kidding. But there's ways to get a better picture. For example, getting his side of the story, then calling plaintiff's attorney and asking for a copy of the draft complaint is a good start. And then, I don't know, calling campus police, SD police, the DA, the AD, the coach, NFL contacts in Cali who may have private investigators out there, the NFL itself for PI help, the agent (not the friggin clown lawyer), and getting as much of a picture as you can from there. The face of your organization should not be discovery new information after the story hits the media. And if he is, then one of two things happened: you (the investigation lead) screwed up, or Araiza's team was less than forthcoming with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Maybe. Or maybe this lawyer was intentionally coy and didn't show his full hand. (He had no obligation to do so and, if anything, may have served his client best by playing it this way.) Or maybe the Bills didn't have the sense to think the lawyer might have been holding card. (Asking for a preview of the complaint is a good way to get a handle on something like that.) I’m not sure what is best about dropping the story publicly 5 minutes after haack got cut but before his first paycheck rolls in. I don’t fault anyone for wanting to leverage timing to maximize both their own compensation and the pain for the person that (may have) wronged them. this is just a real strange week to drop the bomb. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 13 minutes ago, mannc said: Well, the Bills were in direct communication with the plaintiff’s lawyer weeks ago, well before Haack was cut…so they had to have already known that the allegations were very serious…I don’t think the “Araiza misled the Bills” argument makes much sense. It appears to me that araiza and his representation - agent, lawyer, etc) were not forthcoming with all the details because the Bills went from feeling comfortable with their info to not comfortable once the civil suit dropped. They had been aware one was coming and reportedly used an investigator but McDermott said they learned new details in the prior 24 hours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, mannc said: It’s conceivable that the plaintiff’s lawyer only gave the Bills a hint of what was coming, but maybe Araiza didn’t know either, until the complaint was filed. Here’s what I don’t understand: Why was the plaintiff’s lawyer talking to the Bills? Was it as part of the Bills’ investigation or did plaintiff’s lawyer initiate those calls as part of his “settlement strategy”? Yet... The police find nothing criminally. Were they really on the fix? Or is plaintiff embellishing for a lower burden of proof civil case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, mannc said: It’s conceivable that the plaintiff’s lawyer only gave the Bills a hint of what was coming, but maybe Araiza didn’t know either, until the complaint was filed. Here’s what I don’t understand: Why was the plaintiff’s lawyer talking to the Bills? Was it as part of the Bills’ investigation or did plaintiff’s lawyer initiate those calls as part of his “settlement strategy”? From what I understand P's lawyer called the Bills first. That's a pressure tactic. And before anyone starts with the money grab BS, if this was your kid I think you'd be fine with a nice, healthy, extremely large chunk of money to help in putting her back on the path to sound mental health. It's one way of achieving justice. And it avoids her having to testify in open court and go through all of the nonsense of a trial or trials. It also provides closure. Failing success in that respect, it's on to plan B, which appears to have been retribution. ("You hurt me, now I'm really going to hurt you.") Whatever was requested is a sum that Araiza surely wishes today that he had paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, NoSaint said: as he can’t face league punishment, could he even go on the list? No, the exempt list is not an option for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: Maybe. Or maybe this lawyer was intentionally coy and didn't show his full hand. (He had no obligation to do so and, if anything, may have served his client best by playing it this way.) Or maybe the Bills didn't have the sense to think the lawyer might have been holding card. (Asking for a preview of the complaint is a good way to get a handle on something like that.) But if Araiza is innocent, how would he know the full details of what her lawyer would allege in the complaint? I just don’t buy the “Araiza wasn’t honest with the team” argument. The Bills were in direct contact with the lawyer before they decided to cut Haack. Seems like a way for the Bills to pass the buck for what might turn out to be a really serious organizational failure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Gump Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 What I don't get is that he is a good looking dude. And yes, I am secure in my masculinity, lol. He could land any girl he wanted too. Idk why these guys get so stupid. They could have anything they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 They attached MA to complaint because he's the potential deep pocket. What are the going to get from others. Criminal side seems to be exhausted... Unless this reopens it? Maybe the rape kit. ??? Did the police finish up criminally? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorkScrewHill Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 48 minutes ago, jkirchofer said: 1) He should have made better choices. 2) Her civil case isn't about the money. Whatever amount is decided upon is up to him to come up with. 3) The Bills should have practiced what they preached when it comes to culture. 1) if he is innocent wouldn’t that imply he made ok choices or are you asserting a 20 year old should skip all college parties? 2) A civil case is about money (and if he is guilty rightfully so). You can sue and win a million dollars against a homeless person .. but you will never see the money. I am quite certain if it were my daughter I would want her to get as much as possible. 3) So every time there is an accusation of impropriety they should cut the player? That seems heavy handed .. or should they wait till the Twitter jury decides the person’s fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 17 minutes ago, DrPJax said: Not true. He Denys gulit but the female judge / arbitrator stated he committed the acts. Sorry but his lack of contrition is not lack of guilt. If she didn’t find him guilty , how could she legally have dispensed any penalties despite how light they were and ended with heavier appeals. He was found guilty , he just continues to deny it in his own mind. She expressly said she found he committed the actions he was accused of. That, my friend is being convicted of guilty behavior or she would have had to dismiss any requirements for him to sit out ANY games. The NFLPA accepted that ruling. The nfl appealed for stiffer penalties surrounding his guilt, and he was found guilty, convicted , and will serve stiffer punishment. Non conviction or innocence and he would be playing without suspension and a 5 mil$ fine! I suspect this is what is really going on, much like the Watson case: They both did things they thought were ok and are shocked to hear them described in a context that makes them seem like rapists or harassers. Araiza is likely experiencing cognitive dissonance now: He can't conceive of himself as a rapist but he can't reconcile that view with the facts seen in an objective light. So, like Watson, he ends up in this weird place where he's basically saying, "Yeah, it happened, but I wasn't thinking of it as 'rape' at the time, so I'm innocent." If this is correct, he's making it ten times worse by letting his lawyer describe the girls as a "gold digger." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Yet... The police find nothing criminally. Were they really on the fix? Or is plaintiff embellishing for a lower burden of proof civil case It sounds me to like if Araiza/his attorney have something to improve his case it better come out like now. Otherwise he's getting cut. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake_My_Head Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Ford. With all due respect, what kind of "character misevaluations" on Ford approached even 0.000001% of the Araiza situation? GMs miss on high draft choices all the time and this is Beane's first major one in five years. It's a part of football as old as time. The Punt God situation is totally different and unique and, IMO, can't be lumped into "two misses this week" in any way, shape or form. Edited August 27, 2022 by Shake_My_Head 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said: What I don't get is that he is a good looking dude. And yes, I am secure in my masculinity, lol. He could land any girl he wanted too. Idk why these guys get so stupid. They could have anything they want. It isn't about the sex. It's about power and control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beacon Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 THE PUNT SATAN!👹 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, NoSaint said: I’m not sure what is best about dropping the story publicly 5 minutes after haack got cut but before his first paycheck rolls in. I don’t fault anyone for wanting to leverage timing to maximize both their own compensation and the pain for the person that (may have) wronged them. this is just a real strange week to drop the bomb. Imagine that this guy hurt your daughter/cilent. Personally, I don't need the money and I'd move right to plan B. Either way, P's attorney couldn't get the money for his client to make her satisfied. So you know what my plan B would be? I'm going to hurt him. Bad. And for a long time. Do my best to have the ability to send him a housewarming card when he gets to prison. So the timing makes perfect sense. He took her dignity, and now we're going to take his. Hardball stuff, but that's what happens. 3 minutes ago, mannc said: But if Araiza is innocent, how would he know the full details of what her lawyer would allege in the complaint? I just don’t buy the “Araiza wasn’t honest with the team” argument. The Bills were in direct contact with the lawyer before they decided to cut Haack. Seems like a way for the Bills to pass the buck for what might turn out to be a really serious organizational failure. You ask. It happens all the time in settlement discussions. Gotta show the principal (he/she with the money) how this is going to look if we don't settle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: It appears to me that araiza and his representation - agent, lawyer, etc) were not forthcoming with all the details because the Bills went from feeling comfortable with their info to not comfortable once the civil suit dropped. They had been aware one was coming and reportedly used an investigator but McDermott said they learned new details in the prior 24 hours. If the Bills learned new details in the past 24 hours, that’s their fault. They were in direct communication with the plaintiff’s lawyer and supposedly had a crack investigative team on the job. And if Araiza is innocent, he might not have known those “new details.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 The Bills “thorough investigation” didn’t include interviewing the victim. Clown show 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPJax Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, finn said: I suspect this is what is really going on, much like the Watson case: They both did things they thought were ok and are shocked to hear them described in a context that makes them seem like rapists or harassers. Araiza is likely experiencing cognitive dissonance now: He can't conceive of himself as a rapist but he can't reconcile that view with the facts seen in an objective light. So, like Watson, he ends up in this weird place where he's basically saying, "Yeah, it happened, but I wasn't thinking of it as 'rape' at the time, so I'm innocent." If this is correct, he's making it ten times worse by letting his lawyer describe the girls as a "gold digger." Good post, thx for thoughtful input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Gump Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: It isn't about the sex. It's about power and control. And that's f'd up. If this comes to fruition and he is guilty, I really hope someone like Spencer Brown beats the ever loving ***** out of him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 minute ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: It sounds me to like if Araiza/his attorney have something to improve his case it better come out like now. Otherwise he's getting cut. Just saying, stupid to get the yips now and cut him. IMO. He either has a career in BFLo or nothing. It would be something if he ended up in New England. We either use him or crush him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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