BringBackFergy Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 A serious question: Baseball players/pitchers sometime require Tommy John surgery because the throwing motion in baseball is unnatural (overhand). Softball players don't require Tommy John because underhand throwing is actually the natural motion for our arms and shoulders. NFL QB's throw overhand.... I'm surprised more QB's haven't had to undergo Tommy John surgery. Is there a reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 https://www.quora.com/Why-don-t-NFL-QBs-seem-to-get-injuries-that-need-Tommy-John-surgery-as-MLB-pitchers-do 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) Pitchers throw at an extremely high velocity 150 times a game. And they have 162 games in a season. They don't play every game, but they play a lot more games than NFL QB's do. So I think they just throw it a ton more than an NFL QB, and probably at a much higher velocity. Edited June 13, 2022 by MJS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuba guy Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 To generate power It is completely different motion and pitchers normally throw with a higher velocity. And also 17 games to know well 120 put really 5 days rest or 26 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: A serious question: Baseball players/pitchers sometime require Tommy John surgery because the throwing motion in baseball is unnatural (overhand). Softball players don't require Tommy John because underhand throwing is actually the natural motion for our arms and shoulders. NFL QB's throw overhand.... I'm surprised more QB's haven't had to undergo Tommy John surgery. Is there a reason? Baseball is a far more grueling sport than football. Pitchers pitch every 5 days. NFL QBs play every 7 days. Pitchers usually throw about 100 pitches/game. QBs throw 30-40 passes. Pitchers are always "throwing hard," even the off-speed stuff is going 75-80 mph and the arm motion is the same. QBs usually throw the ball less than 10 yards in the air. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted June 13, 2022 Author Share Posted June 13, 2022 Just now, scuba guy said: To generate power It is completely different motion and pitchers normally throw with a higher velocity. And also 17 games to know well 120 put really 5 days rest or 26 games. This makes sense. Historically, I'm wondering how many MLB pitchers have undergone surgery after only two or three years in the minors/majors. Plus, a lot of NFL QB's played baseball for years. Just now, Gugny said: Baseball is a far more grueling sport than football. With all due respect, you're full of it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 minute ago, BringBackFergy said: With all due respect, you're full of it. First, that wasn't nice. B. We're talking about a pitcher, whose season starts at the beginning of spring and ends at the end of fall. 162 regular season games. A healthy pitcher will start 30-is games in a regular season. A QB starts 17 games in a regular season. 3. When I say more grueling, I'm specifically referring to the throwing arm. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) oh...baseball talk! Edited June 13, 2022 by teef 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: With all due respect, you're full of it. Not really. The strain on a pitchers arms is a lot more than the strain on a QB's. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted June 13, 2022 Author Share Posted June 13, 2022 Just now, Gugny said: First, that wasn't nice. B. We're talking about a pitcher, whose season starts at the beginning of spring and ends at the end of fall. 162 regular season games. A healthy pitcher will start 30-is games in a regular season. A QB starts 17 games in a regular season. 3. When I say more grueling, I'm specifically referring to the throwing arm. I see you haven't edited your post above. Here's how you should change it: "In my unprofessional opinion, having no medical background, a baseball pitcher uses their arm in a more grueling manner on a consistent basis as opposed to a quarterback. The sport of football is much more grueling, but a baseball pitcher uses their throwing motion more per game than a QB" Just now, H2o said: Not really. The strain on a pitchers arms is a lot more than the strain on a QB's. So baseball pitchers participate in a more grueling sport? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: A serious question: Baseball players/pitchers sometime require Tommy John surgery because the throwing motion in baseball is unnatural (overhand). Softball players don't require Tommy John because underhand throwing is actually the natural motion for our arms and shoulders. NFL QB's throw overhand.... I'm surprised more QB's haven't had to undergo Tommy John surgery. Is there a reason? RJ did but apparently it didn't get him to get his arm strength back according to Wikipedia. Comeback attempts (2006–2008)[edit] Following his release from Oakland in 2004, Johnson underwent Tommy John surgery, a procedure more commonly performed on baseball pitchers. A tendon was taken from Johnson's wrist and transplanted into his elbow to replace the injured tendon that resembled "a frayed rope" from overuse. After a year of recovery, Johnson worked out for the Tennessee Titans, but was not signed. Reports suggested his arm strength was still under 50%. In 2006, Johnson was signed by the New York Giants to compete for a roster spot behind starter Eli Manning. Johnson was released before the preseason came to an end. In an NFL.com interview, Johnson vowed to continue his career for as long as he could play at "an NFL level." In September 2008, Johnson was invited to a Titans workout, along with Joey Harrington and Chris Simms. However, the Titans signed Simms as a backup for veteran Kerry Collins. This was Johnson's last reported NFL workout. Edited June 13, 2022 by The Jokeman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: I see you haven't edited your post above. Here's how you should change it: "In my unprofessional opinion, having no medical background, a baseball pitcher uses their arm in a more grueling manner on a consistent basis as opposed to a quarterback. The sport of football is much more grueling, but a baseball pitcher uses their throwing motion more per game than a QB" So baseball pitchers participate in a more grueling sport? I would not be caught dead writing a disaster of a sentence like the ones you wrote above. 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 The same reason you rarely see torn labrum injuries in QBs as a result of throwing. The arm path is completely different and the overall stress on the UCL isn’t near the same as a baseball player. Every pitch is thrown with maximum intent and passes in football are not. The power generated through the kinetic chain from ankle flexion all the way through hip and shoulder separation to external rotation in the shoulder then finally into the elbow is exponentially higher in baseball. I have Modus data to back this up but it’s just charts and graphs and not great for this format. For a visual just imagine in your head how a pitcher finishes off every pitch and how a QB finishes every throw. One is considerably more violent than the other. Pitchers have much more in common with javelin throwers than QBs when it comes to arm and shoulder stress and studying javelin throwing was how many breakthroughs in velocity happened. And as many people have mentioned in this thread, the overall difference in the number of reps in a game or practice is vast. Without taking into account spring and offseason work a starting professional pitcher will throw 5000ish pitches in season. Even the most sparsely used relievers will throw at a volume that QBs just don’t see. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeFrommStateFarm Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Baseball is a great sport ! I'm watching my Beloved Atlanta Braves win 11 games in a row ! Very exciting ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted June 13, 2022 Author Share Posted June 13, 2022 Just now, JakeFrommStateFarm said: Baseball is a great sport ! I'm watching my Beloved Atlanta Braves win 11 games in a row ! Very exciting ! Take it to www.baseballmessageboardsfornerds.com 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: So baseball pitchers participate in a more grueling sport? If we are taking into account solely the stress put on an arm and shoulder as a whole while strictly comparing a pitcher to a QB? Absolutely. Now if you are talking about getting hit? Of course they don't get hit. The stress on a pitcher's arm though is well beyond that of a QB. Starting pitchers are putting everything they have into hurling the ball anywhere between 85-120 times an outing. They may take the mound 35 times in a year. That's well beyond the 30-60 passes a QB may throw in, at the most, 21 games. And QB's aren't always throwing the ball as hard as can either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: Take it to www.baseballmessageboardsfornerds.com 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) A baseball players arm requires more "snap" and they throw different pitches...the elbow goes through so much more strain. QB's aren't throwing curveballs, sliders, split fingers etc... Plus they throw hard every throw. You don't change your arm speed on change ups. A QB isn't sitting back and throwing with everything on every throw. There's touch passes, lob passes, quick slants etc... Edited June 13, 2022 by Royale with Cheese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Josh almost had to have it when he took the shot from one of the Pats players on his left elbow I think his rookie year or second year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted June 13, 2022 Author Share Posted June 13, 2022 I'm not sure how he survives each game. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 28 minutes ago, SACTOBILLSFAN said: The same reason you rarely see torn labrum injuries in QBs as a result of throwing. The arm path is completely different and the overall stress on the UCL isn’t near the same as a baseball player. Every pitch is thrown with maximum intent and passes in football are not. The power generated through the kinetic chain from ankle flexion all the way through hip and shoulder separation to external rotation in the shoulder then finally into the elbow is exponentially higher in baseball. I have Modus data to back this up but it’s just charts and graphs and not great for this format. For a visual just imagine in your head how a pitcher finishes off every pitch and how a QB finishes every throw. One is considerably more violent than the other. Pitchers have much more in common with javelin throwers than QBs when it comes to arm and shoulder stress and studying javelin throwing was how many breakthroughs in velocity happened. And as many people have mentioned in this thread, the overall difference in the number of reps in a game or practice is vast. Without taking into account spring and offseason work a starting professional pitcher will throw 5000ish pitches in season. Even the most sparsely used relievers will throw at a volume that QBs just don’t see. They'll throw about 30 pitches in the bullpen to warm up before the game starts. Then they get 8 warm up pitches before the inning starts. They'll take two days off and then start throwing again...probably some long tossing at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 26 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said: Baseball is a great sport ! I'm watching my Beloved Atlanta Braves win 11 games in a row ! Very exciting ! As I watch my beloved Angels crap the bed again with 2 of the best players in baseball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: I'm not sure how he survives each game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: I thought that was Lou Keekly for a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 So, Josh hurling rocks downfield is equivalent to Goofus? NPeterman not throwing a 'Hail Mary' to end the half is Gallant? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, BringBackFergy said: A serious question: Baseball players/pitchers sometime require Tommy John surgery because the throwing motion in baseball is unnatural (overhand). Softball players don't require Tommy John because underhand throwing is actually the natural motion for our arms and shoulders. NFL QB's throw overhand.... I'm surprised more QB's haven't had to undergo Tommy John surgery. Is there a reason? Overhand throwing has been around since before humans left Africa, spears rocks etc the motion comes naturally, what is un-natural its what baseball pitchers do, super high velocity repeated many thousands of times in a relatively short period of time, and for many years, even in the lithic ages, a device for propelling spears at high velocity was devised, those guys where smarter that baseball players… soccer moms use these devices to throw tennis ball at parks for their dogs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted June 13, 2022 Author Share Posted June 13, 2022 25 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Faker. That’s the biggest hoax since Will Smith “slapped” Chris Rock. Great theater though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Bills Fanatic Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Creating torque to throw breaking pitches and cut fastballs puts a lot of stain on the elbow. This kind of motion is not generally used to throw a football, although some of the unusual throws by Mahomes could be an example of an exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 56 minutes ago, Gugny said: I thought that was Lou Keekly for a second. Well you were wrong. 37 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: Faker. That’s the biggest hoax since Will Smith “slapped” Chris Rock. Great theater though. Did you know he did it twice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 hours ago, BringBackFergy said: This makes sense. Historically, I'm wondering how many MLB pitchers have undergone surgery after only two or three years in the minors/majors. Plus, a lot of NFL QB's played baseball for years. With all due respect, you're full of it. Have you ever tried to stay awake for an entire baseball game? It aint easy. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) Hockey is more grueling than football. On 2nd thought, cooking on Master Chef with Gordon Ramsey barking in your face is more grueling than football. Edited June 13, 2022 by Draconator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gugny said: QBs usually throw the ball less than 10 yards in the air. Ahh, now it makes sense! Tua is actually ahead of the curve and he’s just pacing himself to have a 20 year career! . Edited June 13, 2022 by Augie 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: That’s just gut wrenching to watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said: That’s just gut wrenching to watch He did it twice in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said: As I watch my beloved Angels crap the bed again with 2 of the best players in baseball. Yep. Not just 2 of the best players in baseball - it’s one sure-thing first ballot hall of famer (Trout) and the best two-way player in the history of baseball (Babe Ruth pitched and hit at world class levels, but not at the same time). And somehow they won’t even make the playoffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, mead107 said: Need a robot to throw the balls. no more surgery Or they can kick it like futbol players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 As we approach three pages on this riveting topic, two things have become abundantly clear: 1. I was right. 2. @BringBackFergy needs to be reported. Enjoy your vacation, Richard Head!!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 37 minutes ago, Gugny said: 1. I was right. So was Scott Norwood 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeFrommStateFarm Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said: Have you ever tried to stay awake for an entire baseball game? It aint easy. There's an enormous amount of strategy going on. It's really intense ! The next thing you're going to tell me is you think golf is boring? Edited June 13, 2022 by JakeFrommStateFarm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 4 hours ago, BringBackFergy said: A serious question: Baseball players/pitchers sometime require Tommy John surgery because the throwing motion in baseball is unnatural (overhand). Softball players don't require Tommy John because underhand throwing is actually the natural motion for our arms and shoulders. NFL QB's throw overhand.... I'm surprised more QB's haven't had to undergo Tommy John surgery. Is there a reason? If josh Allen were more delicate he might play baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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