Mass shooting in Buffalo (Those wishing to exchange on the political aspects of this situation should do so in the thread located in PPP) - edit by moderator

[Andy1]

What bothers me most is the pride some have in their hatred towards others. Flags, stickers, etc. to show they are part of the tribe. Last week I was in a very rural area north of Binghamton. The school bus stopped and three black children got out to go home. Two houses away, their neighbor is flying the confederate flag.    People now feel safe showing others they hate. There is no shame. That still bothers me just thinking about those kids.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

41 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Binghamton is not far from Ithaca

 

I'm aware of the geography.  I've carefully refrained from commentary on my experience with the philosophical proclivities of the area.

 

41 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

 Also I-81 from Conklin to the NYS thruway would indeed take him through Syracuse and Rochester

 

True.  It's about 15% longer, but maybe interstate all the way is a push on time.  So he could have.

 

I'm not sure if I'm "I guess his reasons will come out and we'll know" or "I don't GAF I just want this guy to burn, and the sooner the better for me" (unfortunately or fortunately  I respect the law)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

What bothers me most is the pride some have in their hatred towards others. Flags, stickers, etc. to show they are part of the tribe. Last week I was in a very rural area north of Binghamton. The school bus stopped and three black children got out to go home. Two houses away, their neighbor is flying the confederate flag.    People now feel safe showing others they hate. There is no shame. That still bothers me just thinking about those kids.

 

To be fair, some people flying the confederate battle flag don't perceive it as a symbol of hate (seriously, not kidding) and need to be gently walked through why others see it as such, and why, when you pick a symbol to display to others, you don't get to pick and choose amongst its historical associations.

 

51 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

why oh why did NYS get rid of the death penalty?

 

Apparently it costs more to exhaust all the appeals allowed in a death penalty case than to just feed and house the guy for life.  Dunno if that's the reason though.

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Which makes it obvious he targeted Buffalo for some reason that will hopefully come out. Syracuse is 1 hour away from Conklin, Buffalo is like 3.5 hours. 

if you have a strong stomach you can find out why he chose his target in his “manifesto.” He chose the 14208 zip code specifically because it had the highest concentration of black people he could reasonably drive to. His motivations could not be clearer. He can burn.

[jkeerie]

9 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

if you have a strong stomach you can find out why he chose his target in his “manifesto.” He chose the 14208 zip code specifically because it had the highest concentration of black people he could reasonably drive to. His motivations could not be clearer. He can burn.

I hadn't realized the media is now citing elements of his manifesto.  At the initial press conference the media was very closed mouthed about all this as the investigation was ongoing.  I don't think I have the stomach to search out and read the document, but from what I gather from the press, he certainly was influenced by other mass shooters and was radicalized especially over the past few years via social media forums.  This is just plain scary.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

if you have a strong stomach you can find out why he chose his target in his “manifesto.” He chose the 14208 zip code specifically because it had the highest concentration of black people he could reasonably drive to. His motivations could not be clearer. He can burn.

 

My stomach is not that strong.  I will take your word. 

 

9 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

I hadn't realized the media is now citing elements of his manifesto. 

 

Wish they wouldn't

[ExiledInIllinois]

36 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

if you have a strong stomach you can find out why he chose his target in his “manifesto.” He chose the 14208 zip code specifically because it had the highest concentration of black people he could reasonably drive to. His motivations could not be clearer. He can burn.

Wow! 😔 😟 🙁 

[Logic]

It’s almost as if the ongoing normalization of white supremacy and replacement theory have awful consequences in the real world.

[jkeerie]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

My stomach is not that strong.  I will take your word. 

 

 

Wish they wouldn't

They're not really quoting from it, but just citing how he researched the shooting venue and planned everything.  Also they cited his influences.  This was in an article in the NY Times.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

They're not really quoting from it, but just citing how he researched the shooting venue and planned everything.  Also they cited his influences.  This was in an article in the NY Times.

 

Thanks.

 

TBN article about it:

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/pure-evil-racial-motives-cited-in-mass-shooting-that-killed-10-at-buffalo-supermarket/article_8ea69e00-d3e7-11ec-95a9-3317a6a19739.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_TheBuffaloNews

 

No paywall on this article

 

NY Times coverage:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/14/nyregion/buffalo-shooting?

Quote

Maryam Akaic, left, and a friend light candles across the street from Tops, where they shop often. “If this happened to anyone in my family, I’d want them to light candles for us.”

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

Just saw his plan. Had every step planned out. The store mapped out. Where security usually is. Where the most people would be. Looked at reviews online and saw store is slow. Where they would flee and what neighborhood he was gonna go to next with what weapons. 

 

My god this is the most heartbreaking thing I've ever read. 

[John from Riverside]

I am now watching to see what people say oh this was such a tragedy but what if they didn’t people trying to justify this

 

They will be out there won’t take long

[The Frankish Reich]

3 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

This is just my opinion, but social media has been the single biggest misery to society in my 40+ years. Maybe I'm a Luddite, but I see much more harm than good.

It is with no joy that I have to say that after years of arguing the opposite point, I now have to agree with you.

The internet in general? A net positive. Social media? A net negative.

[Teddy KGB]

22 minutes ago, Logic said:

It’s almost as if the ongoing normalization of white supremacy and replacement theory have awful consequences in the real world.

Where is this happening at ?    This seems like crazy talk 

[716er]

2 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Where is this happening at ?    This seems like crazy talk 

Fox News - not political. It’s a fact.

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

Where is this happening at ?    This seems like crazy talk 

 

Here are a few articles about the foothold that replacement theory — itself a White supremacist ideology — has on many Americans, from a variety of sources. 
 

The shooter today was not the first mass shooter to be radicalized by white supremacy and replacement theory and he won’t be the last.

 

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/tucker-carlson-great-replacement-white-supremacy-1231248/amp/

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/poll-finds-one-third-of-adults-say-they-think-an-effort-is-afoot-to-replace-native-born-americans-with-new-immigrants-for-electoral-purposes-01652314775

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/09/nearly-half-republicans-agree-with-great-replacement-theory/

 

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/ncna1295212

[ExiledInIllinois]

14 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

It is with no joy that I have to say that after years of arguing the opposite point, I now have to agree with you.

The internet in general? A net positive. Social media? A net negative.

Yes... But social media in a "Ukrainian Situation" is a net positive!

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, ExiledInIllinois said:

Yes... But social media in a "Ukrainian Situation" is a net positive!

I will grant you that. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

It is with no joy that I have to say that after years of arguing the opposite point, I now have to agree with you.

The internet in general? A net positive. Social media? A net negative.

 

I think the thing to remember is that before there was Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and Discord, there were AOL groups and newsgroups and then specialized bulletin boards and websites that were dedicated to pushing various ideologies. 

 

So IMHO it's kind of hard to separate the internet from social media.  I guess the latter makes it more widespread and readily available 24/7 since it's on smartphone apps?

 

 

[Teddy KGB]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

Here are a few articles about the foothold that replacement theory — itself a White supremacist ideology — has on many Americans, from a variety of sources. 
 

The shooter today was not the first mass shooter to be radicalized by white supremacy and replacement theory and he won’t be the last.

 

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/tucker-carlson-great-replacement-white-supremacy-1231248/amp/

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/poll-finds-one-third-of-adults-say-they-think-an-effort-is-afoot-to-replace-native-born-americans-with-new-immigrants-for-electoral-purposes-01652314775

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/09/nearly-half-republicans-agree-with-great-replacement-theory/

 

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/ncna1295212

white supremacy is always frowned upon 100 of 100 times that I’ve came across but I guess I don’t know everyone 

 

feels reachy 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Teddy KGB

[Logic]

1 minute ago, Teddy KGB said:

white supremacy is always frowned upon 100 of 100 times that I’ve came across but I guess I don’t know everyone 

I wish that was true.
 

The articles I linked quote numbers like HALF of republicans and 1/3 of Americans overall believing in replacement theory, so white supremacy — unfortunately — may have more of a presence than we think, even if it’s veiled in indirect language and concepts.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Logic said:

I wish that was true.
 

The articles I linked quote numbers like HALF of republicans and 1/3 of Americans overall believing in replacement theory, so white supremacy — unfortunately — may have more of a presence than we think, even if it’s veiled in indirect language and concepts.

What some people don’t seem to grasp as you don’t have to actually come out and say all the right words to make it supremacy if you have weak minded individuals who will decipher it as such are there people out there with white hoods and hang nooses no that’s too direct they take words that they see come out of people that they trust that gets close enough

[Andy1]

The media and internet sites promoting promoting replacement theory or white supremacy are doing so for profit. This is their business decision. They promote and cultivate a market for these ideas. Lies for profit with no concern for the consequences on American society.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

What some people don’t seem to grasp as you don’t have to actually come out and say all the right words to make it supremacy if you have weak minded individuals who will decipher it as such are there people out there with white hoods and hang nooses no that’s too direct they take words that they see come out of people that they trust that gets close enough

 

This may have been linked upthread, sorry for not looking

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/18/578745514/a-former-neo-nazi-explains-why-hate-drew-him-in-and-how-he-got-out

 

Quote

On how he was recruited into believing the white supremacist ideology

It started out with Clark [Martell, the former leader of Chicago Area Skinheads] and several of the older skinheads in this group appealing to my sense of pride, of being European, of being Italian. And then it would move on to instilling fear that I would lose that pride and that somebody would take that away from me if I wasn't careful. Then it went on to name specific groups through conspiracy theories that were bent on taking that pride or that privilege away from me.

So it was the fear rhetoric

 

I can tell you that every single person that I recruited or that was recruited around the same time that I did, up to now, up to what we're seeing today, is recruited through vulnerabilities and not through ideology.

 

Quote

I do think that there were a lot of concerted strategies in the '80s and '90s that we're seeing take hold today. We recognized in the mid-'80s that our edginess, our look, even our language, was turning away the average American white racist — people we wanted to recruit. So we decided then to grow our hair out, to stop getting tattoos that would identify us, to trade in our boots for suits and to go to college campuses and recruit there and enroll, to get jobs in law enforcement, to go to the military and get training and to even run for office. And here we are, 30 years later, and we're using terms like "white nationalist" and "alt-right" — terms that [the white supremacists] came up with, by the way. They sat around and said, "How can we identify ourselves to make us seem less hateful?" ...

 

Here we are in 2018 and we have a lot of hallmarks coming from political figures, the administration and policies that are very similar to what we espoused 30 years ago. The language may be a little bit more palatable. Dog whistles may be used, but it is still the same underlying theme. It is a white supremacist culture that is being pushed.

 

 

[Doc Brown]

54 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

It is with no joy that I have to say that after years of arguing the opposite point, I now have to agree with you.

The internet in general? A net positive. Social media? A net negative.

Correlation doesn't imply causation but mass shootings have increased since social media sites became more common.  Here's a chart that shows the number of mass shootings per year with the criteria being four or more people were killed by gunfire in a public place where the primary motive is mass murder (doesn't involve gangs or robberies).  I think the rise of social media is a significant reason for this trend for a variety of reasons.

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Doc Brown

[Buffalo716]

The shooter has already been arraigned 

 

Prayers to the families of the deceased and wounded ... And to the community as well

[Hapless Bills Fan]

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/05/14/nyregion/buffalo-shooting?smid=url-copy&fbclid=IwAR01cvBSyjHRI-VSX0UykxR3m_h__BrSL74DwT6W2XgCDWRLEKP4vvOMjyo#the-accused-gunmans-racist-manifesto-outlined-a-plan-to-kill-blacks-and-referred-to-replacement-theory

 

[Warcodered]

 

 

[ALF]

A interview on CH 4 at 11pm  with a black man who spoke to the killer for 1 and 3/4 hour Friday outside that Tops. They talked about all kind of subjects. He normally sat outside there to talk to people  but Saturday afternoon the guard who was killed kept clearing the area that saved his life. Buffalo is making such progress then this tragedy happens , sad beyond belief. It's a shame  that good black man with his kindness to the killer the day before didn't change his mind.

[machine gun kelly]

Someone who is about to commit a horrific event will not be dissuaded by a kind and gentle man, who sits outside the store and talks to people in his neighborhood.

 

Just waking up and I eve more sick about this tragic loss.  I’m grateful no one I know was lost, but still is so horrible.

[ALF]

It's means this killer is the definition of pure evil.

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

white supremacy is always frowned upon 100 of 100 times that I’ve came across but I guess I don’t know everyone 

 

feels reachy 

And yet you are encountering it. 
 

and I bet a lot of people are not condemning it even if you hear it condemned 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Conklin NY.  That’s a hell of a drive for a  spur of the moment encounter. 
 

Quote

U.S. Rep. Brian Higgins said the gunman had a racial epithet on his rifle.

“It was straight up, a racially motivated hate crime,” Erie County Sheriff John Garcia told reporters.

 

Quote

In one segment of the video, the shooter is heard saying to himself and his followers, “You just got to go for it,” as his car approached the Tops supermarket on Saturday afternoon.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/straight-racially-motivated-hate-crime-013234917.html

 

[NoSaint]

27 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Conklin NY.  That’s a hell of a drive for a  spur of the moment encounter. 
 

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/straight-racially-motivated-hate-crime-013234917.html

 

it was targeted and planned. Location based on demographics, timing based on store traffic patterns. 

[TH3]

12 hours ago, RiotAct said:

why oh why did NYS get rid of the death penalty?

It’s expensive and doesn’t change crime and innocent people get killed. Texas was hours away from executing a woman two weeks ago who has no business being in jail let alone death row.

[mead107]

9 minutes ago, TH3 said:

It’s expensive and doesn’t change crime and innocent people get killed. Texas was hours away from executing a woman two weeks ago who has no business being in jail let alone death row.

This guy is not innocent 

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, mead107 said:

This guy is not innocent 

 

so only more expensive and not actually impactful as a deterrent?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, mead107 said:

This guy is not innocent 

 

Correct, but I believe @TH3 was responding to a more general question about the death penalty.

[billsfan1959]

33 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

Gun violence in this country is a scourge we have been dealing with since at least I have been able to read the papers..say 1972..and prolly much longer.

 

What happened yesterday is just sad, so sickening, so upsetting to me. We know there are idiots out there at the extremes that do things like this for all kind of crazy reasons..hate of a race, hate of a religion, hate of Mondays, boredom, chasing fame.. 

 

But these high profile mass shootings are such a small part of the overall homicides committed every year..infinitesimal to be honest. Where was the outrage on twitter and on here Saturday morning  for this headlines from Saturday ? https://www.fox6now.com/news/milwaukee-shootings-homicides-police-051322...17 people shot and 3 dead on one night in Milwaukee. One ***** night

 

20K people  lost their lives last year via homicide...let that sink in ...20 THOUSAND...that is 54 Every Single Day. Many of those via gun violence in cities/states with very strict gun laws. Many of those commited by peoplr they know and love.

 

Unfortunately, we live in a ultra politicized environment  where honest discussion is not tolerated and root causes are not addressed by either party. We want to have easy answers...White Supremacy is why the murder rate is so high. Black on Black Violence is why the murder rate is so high. Defund the police is why the murder rate is so high... current gun laws are why the murder rate is so high..

 

Unfortunately, all of these things are prolly a piece of the problem, but our political identity has left us unable to accept ANY thought that comes from the other party or ideology...

 

I don't pray, but i weep for the victims and their families. I wept a bit the other day when a bartender at a sports bar here in Richmond was the victim of drive by at freaking noon on Wednesday afternoon. 

 

I wish the best for our country, and sure wish we could address  this address this issue with honesty and  not political identities.

 

 

There have been between 14,000 and 22,000+ murders a year in this country since 1969. That is an average of over 17,000 per year, and a total of over 1 million people murdered in this country in that period. The only time people seem to really care is when they can use a murder (or murders) for their own ends.

 

The real impact of lethal violence on victims, their families, and communities, as well as any real honest discussion about it seem to get lost in the rush to use tragedies in a way that best suits our needs.

[Mr. WEO]

How did they not shot this redneck POS??

 

Black shooter wouldn't live to arraignment....