Was Allen the top prospect on the Bills board?

[ProcessAccepted]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Let's hope that wasn't the case.  You don't want Pegula anywhere near that type of hands-on micromanagement.

 

 

I don't think they forced Beane's hand or anything like that but I've heard Beane say that the Pegulas told him how much they really like his attitude and drive.

[SoMAn]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

They were down to Allen and Darnold and I have that on very good authority. If it wasn't one of those 2 they were trading back and taking Rudolph or Lauletta later on. 

 

Everything the Bills have said leads me to believe that of the two Allen was their guy. But had Allen gone in the top 2 and Darnold had fallen he would have been the pick. 

I never wanted Darnold-mostly because it’s a stupid name.  Its not Donald. It’s not Arnold. It’s an awkward mashup of two names that doomed him from the start. 

[MrEpsYtown]

I definitely believe he was the top our board. It makes sense. Josh embodies everything we have been looking for here for quite some time. 
 

But, I also believe, that the year before they wanted Mitch Trubisky and were ready to trade up a bit for him. When they knew they had to get up to number two and what the cost was, the punted to plan B, which was trade down, get a QB next year. I have no proof, just my gut. 
 

So thank you Bears! If they steal Ryan Bates I will consider us even. 

[HOUSE]

Brandon Beane is a sneaky fella, I personally believe he was high on Baker Mayfield but the Browns saved the day for us.

 

I love Cleveland, they can screw up a one man band

 

 

[Apocalypse Nuts]

8 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

I for surely thought Allen was going to the Jets.  At every Wyoming home game, I mostly saw Jets scouts moving in and out of the press boxes.  

This is very interesting intel.  Thanks for sharing.

 

And think about how Josh would have probably turned out by now had he gone to the Jests or the Browns.  I can't imagine he would have turned out quite the same without all the incredible support from the Bills organization. 

 

But all this talk about our Joshie not being a Buffalo Bill (hypothetically) just makes me so sad.  😪

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

Yes, it's been reported that the Pegulas were particularly smitten with Allen.

Also, I believe the Bills top brass called Allen on Draft day morning and spoke to him for 30 minutes about the twitter post that surfaced the previous night,   You gotta believe that the must have been on the top of their board for them to have reached out and discussed with him.  Go Bills!

[Logic]

Imagine if Dave Gettelman wasn’t an idiot, and the top three picks had been Mayfield, Allen, Darnold.

 

Assuming the Bills didn’t like Rosen or Jackson, it’s depressing to imagine a world in which they drafted Kyle Lauletta or Mason Rudolph.

 

Good lord. I don’t ever want to think about this again.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Also, I believe the Bills top brass called Allen on Draft day morning and spoke to him for 30 minutes about the twitter post that surfaced the previous night,   You gotta believe that the must have been on the top of their board for them to have reached out and discussed with him.  Go Bills!

I always thought the Bills put that out there themselves, they would have been highly motivated for Josh to drop. 

[ToGoGo]

56 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I always thought the Bills put that out there themselves, they would have been highly motivated for Josh to drop. 

 

Or Belichick. 

[Turbo44]

4 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

 

LOL what? Darnold would have been a Top 10-15 QB with the Bills?

 

Um.......NO! Absolutely not a chance Darnold is a Top 10-15 QB...ANYWHERE! Not with the Bills, not with the Chiefs, not with Belichick, not with Sean McVay.

 

Sam Darnold is Sam Darnold. He's Sam Darnold anywhere. He's just a really really bad QB, a really really bad football player. He's the classic "Can Do" player - "Darnold can do this, Darnold can do that"....the guy who looks the part, but can't play AT ALL. He's a deer in headlights; the game is simply way too fast for him. There isn't a single NFL franchise that Darnold could have been a "top 10-15 QB" on. Not one.

 

This was a truly terrible QB class after Josh Allen. SOMEONE had to be ranked #2 behind Josh, so I guess having Darnold ranked #2 can be justified because all the guys ranked after Darnold also suck.

Lamar says otherwise…

[jayg]

The best thing about this is that the Bills have the best quarterback that they have ever had. Dynamics have changed from 30 years ago but they are building a team to win , now,  even if it's only one I will be happy forever! GO BILLS!

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, SoMAn said:

I never wanted Darnold-mostly because it’s a stupid name.  Its not Donald. It’s not Arnold. It’s an awkward mashup of two names that doomed him from the start. 

I wasn’t a fan of drafting Darnold after watching him make so many bone headed decisions at USC so often.  I liked his potential based on just his physical gifts, but my biggest concern was always his poor decision making.  I was thrilled to learn the Jets move up to 3rd was for Darnold.  

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

 

LOL what? Darnold would have been a Top 10-15 QB with the Bills?

 

Um.......NO! Absolutely not a chance Darnold is a Top 10-15 QB...ANYWHERE! Not with the Bills, not with the Chiefs, not with Belichick, not with Sean McVay.

 

Sam Darnold is Sam Darnold. He's Sam Darnold anywhere. He's just a really really bad QB, a really really bad football player. He's the classic "Can Do" player - "Darnold can do this, Darnold can do that"....the guy who looks the part, but can't play AT ALL. He's a deer in headlights; the game is simply way too fast for him. There isn't a single NFL franchise that Darnold could have been a "top 10-15 QB" on. Not one.

 

This was a truly terrible QB class after Josh Allen. SOMEONE had to be ranked #2 behind Josh, so I guess having Darnold ranked #2 can be justified because all the guys ranked after Darnold also suck.

On draft night, this was considered a high potential QB draft class.  And it was looking like 3 to 4 guys were on their way to being good to very good QBs after the first season.  But Baker has regressed and Darnold never got any better.  Allen went on to be elite and Lamar is still very good.  
 

I was not high on Darnold even though I had him at 3 behind Baker and Allen.  I preferred staying put and drafting Lamar  if we missed out on Allen.  I had no interest in trading up for Darnold or Rosen.  
 

Darnold was a guy who at times would be a terrible decision maker in college and that was a concern.  Rosen had obvious bust written all over him, I was praying we didn’t draft him.  His ceiling was Jay Cutler and his floor was Ryan Leaf.  Terrible.  

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, FFadpecr said:

 

Look at the 4th post on the 1st page. That is the real ranking they had in the room.

 

1) Josh Allen

2) Sam Darnold

3) Baker Mayfield

4) Josh Rosen

5) Mason Rudolph

6) Kyle Lauletta

 

 

 

Again this may have been a ranking at some point. It was not their draft board. 

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I wasn’t a fan of drafting Darnold after watching him make so many bone headed decisions at USC so often.  I liked his potential based on just his physical gifts, but my biggest concern was always his poor decision making.  I was thrilled to learn the Jets move up to 3rd was for Darnold.  

 

I am still not sure their move to #3 was for Darnold. I think it might have been for Baker. It only became clear the Browns were really into Baker in the final 10 days. Long after the Jets traded up. I don't know and they would never say, but I believe they had Mayfield top of their board.

[Doc Brown]

My board was Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Jackson, Allen in that order.

 

I'd look smarter completely flipping it around.  I KNOW NOTHING!!!

 

[BobbyC81]

18 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

I for surely thought Allen was going to the Jets.  At every Wyoming home game, I mostly saw Jets scouts moving in and out of the press boxes.  

You went to Wyoming home games?  Did you have a premonition?

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

My board was Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Jackson, Allen in that order.

 

I'd look smarter completely flipping it around.  I KNOW NOTHING!!!

 

 

Yea that was the order I had them too. I always give credit to the now departed Bandit because he spotted the overstriding in Allen's delivery on his college film and he and I discussed it at some length. He was pretty convinced that was the reason for his inaccuracy in college and after his rookie year you know the thing Jordan Palmer spent most time working on? The overstride in his delivery. Fixing that single issue was the key to unlocking all that potential, which even I as someone who didn't like him as a prospect knew was there. If Bandit had managed to convince me that it was as simple as fixing that I'd have enjoyed the pick a lot more because Josh was always a guy who if he did hit was going to hit very big. 

[maddenboy]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea that was the order I had them too. I always give credit to the now departed Bandit because he spotted the overstriding in Allen's delivery on his college film and he and I discussed it at some length. He was pretty convinced that was the reason for his inaccuracy in college and after his rookie year you know the thing Jordan Palmer spent most time working on? The overstride in his delivery.

1)  I (a pure novice who wanted Claussen and the wrong Josh) wanted Rosen because I wanted "the smartest man in the room" because "quarterback's most important trait, by far, is between the ears."   So why were all of us "wrong josh" people so.  very.  wrong?  Is it as simple as "dont pick players who are already rich and/or dont eat-sleep-breathe football?"

 

2)  I hadnt thought of Bandit in a while.  w/out divulging anything but just in case i missed some common knowledge, whatever happened to him?  I do recall his was a name when, scrolling through a topic, I would automatically stop and digest his stuff.

 

3)  You would think that the Bills also discovered/suspected the over-stride.  But would they have?  because if so, then surely at least a couple other teams would have too, and would have similarly concluded that fixing that one very-fixable thing would unlock the potential.  I mean, if Bandit could see it and Jordan Palmer could see it . . . (nothing against Palmer who I think is quite excellent, after I watched his video about next-gen analysis and training and de-bunking old wives' tale myths about how to play quarterback, mechanically).

 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by maddenboy

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

1)  I (a pure novice who wanted Claussen and the wrong Josh) wanted Rosen because I wanted "the smartest man in the room" because "quarterback's most important trait, by far, is between the ears."   So why were all of us "wrong josh" people so.  very.  wrong?  Is it as simple as "dont pick players who are already rich and/or dont eat-sleep-breathe football?"

 

2)  I hadnt thought of Bandit in a while.  w/out divulging anything but just in case i missed some common knowledge, whatever happened to him?  I do recall his was a name when, scrolling through a topic, I would automatically stop and digest his stuff.

 

3)  You would think that the Bills also discovered/suspected the over-stride.  But would they have?  because if so, then surely at least a couple other teams would have too, and would similarly concluded that fixing that one very-fixable thing would unlock the potential.  I mean, if Jordan Palmer could see it . . . (nothing against Palmer who I think is quite excellent, after I watched his video about next-gen analysis and training and de-bunking old wives' tale myths about how to play quarterback, mechanically.

 

I think bandit had a bit of a falling out with people and decided to move on which is a shame. He was an excellent and very knowledgeable poster and while we didn't always agree on everything I learnt an awful lot from the way he evaluated players. Super guy. 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Again this may have been a ranking at some point. It was not their draft board. 

 

I am still not sure their move to #3 was for Darnold. I think it might have been for Baker. It only became clear the Browns were really into Baker in the final 10 days. Long after the Jets traded up. I don't know and they would never say, but I believe they had Mayfield top of their board.

I agree, I think they made the trade knowing there were multiple guys they would take there regardless.  
 

However, Darnold was never at that point in many talks about going number 1 overall, so the safe bet when they made the move was likely they would take Darnold because he was likely the top guy on their board at the 3rd pick.  
 

Baker and Allen were getting some first overall rumblings, but mostly Baker.  So I think they knew they were most likely getting Darnold even if they had Baker higher as the draft was approaching.  

 

My excitement was knowing they weren’t taking Allen.  Once it was clear Browns were down to Baker or Allen, there wasn’t any talk of them drafting anyone other than Darnold the rest of the process leading up to the draft, and for that I was excited.  
 

I just didn’t want Darnold or Rosen.  I was more ok with Darnold, but I had real concerns about decision making after watching him so much at USC, especially in important moments.  And as I am sure you remember as we discussed it a lot, I hated the idea of trading up and drafting Rosen.

 

I was very confident Rosen would be a bust.  I had too much inside info here in LA about his character and personality that made me confident he was a high bust candidate.  He was a well known douche around LA and even towards kids.  He is totally self absorbed and a fake tough guy who couldn’t take criticism or coaching well.  Where as everyone one I knew that had insight on Darnold was just the opposite…great guy on and off the field.  
 

Unlikeabke QBs don’t rarely make it and stick around in the NFL, and most flame out bad.  So Rosen was a hard pass for me.  

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

2 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

You went to Wyoming home games?  Did you have a premonition?

 

From Wyoming originally.  My mom still lives there and is a big Wyoming fan.  I live in Colorado, but would go to Laramie to watch games with her - specifically during the Josh Allen years because he was that special.

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I agree, I think they made the trade knowing there were multiple guys they would take there regardless.  
 

However, Darnold was never at that point in many talks about going number 1 overall, so the safe bet when they made the move was likely they would take Darnold because he was likely the top guy on their board at the 3rd pick.  

 

That is not how I remember it. The Jets traded up 6 weeks before the draft. At that point Darnold was still the consensus #1 pick among the media and for those who he wasn't it was Josh Allen. Mayfield only came on the scene as a potential number 1 pick in the last 14 days before the draft. And that was based on a growing rumour that he was Cleveland's guy (which turned out to be true). Nobody had him going #1 until it leaked somehow that the Browns were taking him and that happened late in the process. 

[MrEpsYtown]

During the 2017 draft I was watching with some of my buddies and I said to them that Josh Allen was the guy I wanted, but I'd did not think we would be bad enough to draft high enough to get him as he would likely be the number 1 pick. But I said to them that Allen is the guy. Huge arm, big, big hands, seems like a solid dude. He was what everyone wanted EJ Manuel to be, but with EJ the DNA just was not there. 

 

Fast forward a bit and we are on our way to the playoffs, and I gave up on the Josh Allen dream. I started studying Lamar Jackson, Darnold etc. I always hated Baker Mayfield, because tiny quarterbacks who can't run are a recipe for disaster, the only outlier being Drew Brees. I never liked Mayfield. But again, I still felt Allen was out of reach.

 

During this time I spent a lot of time trying to convince myself that Josh Rosen was the answer. If we could not get Josh Allen, then maybe Rosen could be our Brady? Smart guy with arm strength who seemed like a major douche. And I did not mind a douche at QB, ie Tom Brady. I saw the athletic upside of Darnold, and I was okay with Lamar Jackson. I hated Mason Rudolph, with a passion. I thought he was going to be a scrub. 

 

Then Allen stands out at the Senior Bowl and I start to get excited again. So fast forward to draft day, and I start wondering if there is something wrong with Allen. Why are the Browns passing on him? The more I watched of Darnold, the more I disliked and I was down to Josh or Josh or Lamar. I leaned Rosen, because I was worried if the small school guy could really be "the guy." I am so happy to be more than wrong. My buddies texted me and they were like "you should have trusted your gut." A year previous I would have been jumping for joy at the thought of Allen and I am so happy he is our guy. My wife watched my internal conflict as the commissioner announced "The Buffalo Bills select Josh....Allen." In that moment it all came rushing back. I remembered how much I wanted him. How many Wyoming games I watched in anticipation. I felt that we had made the right move and I said to my wife "This is the right move. I understand why they are doing this and I think it is going to work out." She replied "whatever," and went into another room to play candy crush on her phone. It was a great day.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think bandit had a bit of a falling out with people and decided to move on which is a shame. He was an excellent and very knowledgeable poster and while we didn't always agree on everything I learnt an awful lot from the way he evaluated players. Super guy. 

Bandito also had a lot going on in his personal life from what I remember.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is not how I remember it. The Jets traded up 6 weeks before the draft. At that point Darnold was still the consensus #1 pick among the media and for those who he wasn't it was Josh Allen. Mayfield only came on the scene as a potential number 1 pick in the last 14 days before the draft. And that was based on a growing rumour that he was Cleveland's guy (which turned out to be true). Nobody had him going #1 until it leaked somehow that the Browns were taking him and that happened late in the process. 

I honestly don’t remember how much buzz Darnold was getting for #1 overall at that point, but I do know it didn’t last much longer if he was.  He fell out of wide spread number 1 consideration pretty far ahead of the draft.  

Maybe it was because I was so dialed into that draft, but I was pretty certain Darnold wasn’t going number 1 and would be a Jet for weeks heading into the draft. 
 

Either way, thank god Browns didn’t take Allen.  It’s sooooooo nice not having to think about QB issues ahead of a draft. 

[ArtVandalay]

On 3/23/2022 at 10:18 AM, oldmanfan said:

I believe I read somewhere that after they met with Josh in Wyoming they decided he was the guy they wanted.

False. They saw a picture of him in shorts. That was the moment 😍

[BillsFanSD]

On 3/23/2022 at 9:58 AM, Putin said:

Do you think if that was the case McD and Bean would still be here?

I doubt it.  

 

I think we got incredibly lucky that McBeane knocked it out of the park with the Allen selection.  We have an elite franchise QB who is going to keep our team in championship contention for the foreseeable future and a culture that attracts high-profile FAs.  But if we had taken Darnold (say) and he flamed out here the way he did in New Jersey and Carolina, we'd be right at square one with the same mess of a roster that we lived with through the drought era.  I assume we would have blown up our front office and coaching staff back in January, and a bunch of us would be trying to talk ourselves into drafting Malik Willis somebody.  This franchise would be in a radically different place today if the Giants and Broncos didn't have their heads up their asses back in 2018.

 

Then again, we got unlucky with Rob Johnson, JP Losman, and EJ Manuel, along with all the other assorted schlubs we put under center.  It was just a matter of time until one of those QB selections finally worked out.  Glad it was Josh.

[TheFunPolice]

Rosen not only hasn't won more Super Bowls than anyone in NFL history, his job got a lot harder 2 years ago. 

 

He'd better lock down a starting job sometime very, very soon or I don't see him getting to 8 rings!

 

As soon as I saw him trying to be Aaron Rodgers mini-me in that interview where he was counting his rings before he was even drafted I soured on him. 

[Mark Long Beach]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I agree, I think they made the trade knowing there were multiple guys they would take there regardless.  
 

I remember being very sad the Jets moved up to 3.  We were going to get third choice on QB AT BEST!

 

 

I just didn’t want Darnold or Rosen.  I was more ok with Darnold, but I had real concerns about decision making after watching him so much at USC, especially in important moments.  And as I am sure you remember as we discussed it a lot, I hated the idea of trading up and drafting Rosen.

 

I was very confident Rosen would be a bust.  I had too much inside info here in LA about his character and personality that made me confident he was a high bust candidate.  He was a well known douche around LA and even towards kids.  He is totally self absorbed and a fake tough guy who couldn’t take criticism or coaching well.  Where as everyone one I knew that had insight on Darnold was just the opposite…great guy on and off the field.  
 

Unlikeabke QBs don’t rarely make it and stick around in the NFL, and most flame out bad.  So Rosen was a hard pass for me.  

 

I also am in LA and I wanted NOTHING to do with Rosen.   Well known bad attitude in all the wrong ways.  Jeff George level of douche without the arm talent.

[Putin]

57 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I doubt it.  

 

I think we got incredibly lucky that McBeane knocked it out of the park with the Allen selection.  We have an elite franchise QB who is going to keep our team in championship contention for the foreseeable future and a culture that attracts high-profile FAs.  But if we had taken Darnold (say) and he flamed out here the way he did in New Jersey and Carolina, we'd be right at square one with the same mess of a roster that we lived with through the drought era.  I assume we would have blown up our front office and coaching staff back in January, and a bunch of us would be trying to talk ourselves into drafting Malik Willis somebody.  This franchise would be in a radically different place today if the Giants and Broncos didn't have their heads up their asses back in 2018.

 

Then again, we got unlucky with Rob Johnson, JP Losman, and EJ Manuel, along with all the other assorted schlubs we put under center.  It was just a matter of time until one of those QB selections finally worked out.  Glad it was Josh.

I agree with you but I would also ad Cleveland in to the mix , they had a pick of the liter and in a typical Cleveland way they screwed it up ( thank god for that) 

[Shaw66]

13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Again this may have been a ranking at some point. It was not their draft board. 

 

I am still not sure their move to #3 was for Darnold. I think it might have been for Baker. It only became clear the Browns were really into Baker in the final 10 days. Long after the Jets traded up. I don't know and they would never say, but I believe they had Mayfield top of their board.

How do you know that list on page 1 was not their draft board?   I mean, it wasn't their board, but it's a listing of quarterbacks by rank.   How do you know they didn't go into the draft with the QBs ranked that way?

 

I don't know; I never saw any proof.   But reading between the lines of things that McDermott and Beane said after the draft, it sounded to me like Allen was at the top of their QB rankings.   Obviously, they never said that, but there was something about their excitement that Allen had fallen to a spot they could trade up to said to me that he was the guy they wanted.  

 

I don't know anything about overstriding and technical throwing mechanics, but I never got the impression that his throwing mechanics in college were so bad as to make him a serious question mark in that regard.   Mostly, when I watched film of him in college, I saw a supremely gifted athlete who happened to be 6'5", 240.   I didn't know if he would mature into a great NFL QB, because he was pretty inconsistent in college, but I never thought he was the project others did.   

 

Still, going into the draft, I had them Mayfield, Darnold, wrong-Josh, right-Josh, just because I formed my opinions from all the crap in the media.  So, when the Bills traded up, I was hoping for wrong-Josh until, literally seconds before the announcement, I thought "no, take the guy with the big arm."  Then, the board exploded in disappointment, but I was thinking "we're good."  When I heard Beane and McDermott talk about him, I thought, "yup, we're good."  

 

 

4 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

 

Then again, we got unlucky with Rob Johnson, JP Losman, and EJ Manuel, along with all the other assorted schlubs we put under center.  It was just a matter of time until one of those QB selections finally worked out.  Glad it was Josh.

One thing I like around this board is how everyone uses important technical terms, like "edge," and "one-tech," and "schlub."   Good one. 

 

However, I think it's a little unfair to call Tyrod Taylor and Ryan FItzpatrick "schlubs."

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

How do you know that list on page 1 was not their draft board?   I mean, it wasn't their board, but it's a listing of quarterbacks by rank.   How do you know they didn't go into the draft with the QBs ranked that way?

 

 

Because I have it on very good authority that by the draft Rosen and Mayfield were off their board completely. If they didn't get Allen or Darnold they were trading back and taking Rudolph or Lauletta later. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 3/23/2022 at 9:59 AM, The Wiz said:

 

is Lauletta still in the league, dont even remember this guy.

 

 

On 3/23/2022 at 10:11 AM, JGMcD2 said:

They didn’t even view Lamar as a QB haha

 

Still dont 😂😂

 

 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

is Lauletta still in the league, dont even remember this guy.

 

 

Nope. USFL. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Nope. USFL. 

 

Is that league running yet ?

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Is that league running yet ?

 

Due to start play next month.

[Nitro]

I liked him because of his size and arm strength.  Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen were lacking in my view.  Jackson was my second QB.  First time in a long time that I was correct on the best QB in the draft. 

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Because I have it on very good authority that by the draft Rosen and Mayfield were off their board completely. If they didn't get Allen or Darnold they were trading back and taking Rudolph or Lauletta later. 

Thanks.  That's interesting and not surprising. 

[Golden]

On 3/23/2022 at 10:48 AM, BillnutinHouston said:

 

Yes, it's been reported that the Pegulas were particularly smitten with Allen.

Also well reported that Terry Pegula was sky high on Mahomes.